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Thread: Which locations would YOU like to see return?

Which locations would YOU like to see return?

  1. #1

    Big Grin Which locations would YOU like to see return?

    (I wish this was a poll!)

    I'm talking about familiar locations from the series thus far (although particularly Soul Reaver) and how they could potentially fit into a Nosgoth map. The announcement and tease at the 'classic skins', as well as a recent playthrough of Soul Reaver, has me all geared up for bouncing around some fun ideas!

    My thoughts on a couple of places.

    - The Silenced Cathedral: An incomplete version, but the landmark/weapon (however far along in its construction) would still be highly-protected by human forces. Throughout the war the humans could lose and regain control the Cathedral several times, and ultimately abandon it to the legions of Zephon. I imagine the battles themselves would take place outside of the actual cathedral, or perhaps in an area much like the open courtyard area Raziel has to ascend by clambering various rooftops before actually getting inside the building.

    - The Drowned Abbey: But before it is drowned of course! Perhaps the flooding of the abbey is the final result of the various skirmishes there between the vamps and the humans. Of course, you could have the battle take place in a larger, so-far-unseen portion of the vast abbey (which, let's face it, was large enough to have whole areas inaccessible during Raziel's crusade to murder his brethren). It'd be interesting to see the nearby rivers which would one day converge on the abbey, being a map not too dissimilar in design to Freeport.

    Any ideas, guys?
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  2. #2
    Turelim clan territory, Kain's mountain retreat, Undercity.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  3. #3
    I was thinking the Turelim territory too, since the smokestack is an important military stronghold due to its importance for the vamps. I'm not so sure about the Mountain Retreat itself as I think it'd be too difficult for vampire hunters to navigate up to (considering what Raziel would have had to do in order to reach it himself), although I would love to see it finally appear in a game.

    The Undercity! Yes! It would be really interesting to have a subterranean map for the vamps and humans to battle away in. The inclusion of it as a map in Nosgoth might also add to the canon and why it didn't appear in Soul Reaver. I know it was cut but maybe, story-wise, the Undercity was collapsed by the various battles which took place down there!

    I'd also like to see a temple amongst the slums, as a nice nod to the Priestess and the Vampire Cult which also never appeared in the final game.
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  4. #4
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    I should elaborate more later, but:

    - Pillars of Nosgoth/Sanctuary of the Clans - they say it's not LoK without a playable Pillars area!
    - (Ruined) City of the Dumahim - seeing this place in its heyday would be great
    - Silenced Cathedral - to explore this in an in-game environment... *drools*
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  5. #5
    I thought about the Sanctuary of the Clans too! But with it being at the heart of vamp-controlled territory, and right in the middle of all of the Brethren's fortresses, wouldn't it be impossible for humans to penetrate? I'd like to see the Pillars appear via other means though, perhaps on murals or on art designs on the walls of some of the new maps.

    The Ruined City! I thought about this too! I couldn't make my mind up about being happy with its potential inclusion because of how the Elder God describes its ultimate fate, as Dumah himself never saw an attack by the humans coming as he didn't see them as any sort of threat. Unless the battle that takes place here shows how the humans overcame the vamps who lived there, but wouldn't that battle be near to the end of the War for Nosgoth? And wouldn't Dumah himself be involved since he is still there when Raziel comes for his soul?

    I'm glad you agree with the Cathedral!
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  6. #6
    I meant this Undercity:
    http://www.thelostworlds.net/SR1/The...he_Temple.html

    It was the Lost City that collapsed under the abyss, wasn't it?
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #7
    I meant the same Undercity! Although reading back, I probably should have worded that better...

    By 'subterranean' I meant that it was underneath the Human Citadel and therefore would have a cavern-like setting
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  8. #8
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    Raziel penetrated the Sanctuary on his own, though, in five minutes. I know that was a special case, but the defences were still pretty pathetic and worn down by then, even in comparison to old ruins like the Lighthouse or the Fire Glyph altar.

    Someone has already written a powerful argument for including it in the game, which appeals to my confirmation bias like nothing ever before. You can read it here; see if it's convincing!

    As for the City, it's my opinion that the Dumahim's arrogance and overconfidence over the humans would be best vindicated if their fortress already successfully repelled multiple human attacks with ease – and if so, there's no better time to show those
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  9. #9
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    Any locations from SR1, because Nosgoth and Soul Reaver are closely related.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    Raziel penetrated the Sanctuary on his own, though, in five minutes. I know that was a special case, but the defences were still pretty pathetic and worn down by then, even in comparison to old ruins like the Lighthouse or the Fire Glyph altar.

    Someone has already written a powerful argument for including it in the game, which appeals to my confirmation bias like nothing ever before. You can read it here; see if it's convincing!

    As for the City, it's my opinion that the Dumahim's arrogance and overconfidence over the humans would be best vindicated if their fortress already successfully repelled multiple human attacks with ease – and if so, there's no better time to show those
    He does make a good case, you're right! I still think it'd be too buried at the heart of Kain's empire though, like he says. For some reason I feel that if the clans can unite their vampy armies against the humans then they could protect the Sanctuary and anything within its close vicinity.

    I've always seen it as like attacking the capital of a country. First you have to win the lands between here and there, and I guess I could buy that logic especially since Nosgoth is death-match orientated. I'm not sure I'd be convinced by it though. If the humans were powerful enough to breach the Sanctuary then I think, realistically, some sort of unexplained cataclysm must have occurred in order for them to be in the state they are by the time Raziel is reborn.

    I like the idea that maybe they kept the Razielim flags up (or even put them back up following Raziel's execution) because they were helping fight the humans off is a really, really clever idea and fills in what I considered to be a bit of a plot-hole in Soul Reaver.

    I really like the idea you have for the City of Dumahim! I think that's an excellent way to keep it consistent.
    Originally Posted by Ambusher
    Any locations from SR1, because Nosgoth and Soul Reaver are closely related.
    I agree that they're closely related, although not just any location should appear
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  11. #11
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    As much as I want to see some of these places, keep this in mind: many of the places visited in the soul reaver eras and were intended to be released (Turel's smokestack) were near the center of Kain's Empire. The locations seen in Nosgoth are outlying territories that held only nominal vampire occupation until the Vampires acknowledged the humans as a returning threat. In all the blogs so far, the vampires are taking the fight to the humans. Hence it seems highly unlikely/unreasonable to have playable areas in some locations.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Razaiim
    As much as I want to see some of these places, keep this in mind: many of the places visited in the soul reaver eras and were intended to be released (Turel's smokestack) were near the center of Kain's Empire. The locations seen in Nosgoth are outlying territories that held only nominal vampire occupation until the Vampires acknowledged the humans as a returning threat. In all the blogs so far, the vampires are taking the fight to the humans. Hence it seems highly unlikely/unreasonable to have playable areas in some locations.
    Yeah. It might be interesting seeing some campaigns in other areas, like behind enemy lines sorta stuff. I mean the small teams that feature in Nosgoth I suppose are kind of symbolic of skirmishes on the hinters of wider battles, I suppose. Some objective stuff further into the Kain empire might be quite cool, and be suitably depicted as the work of small groups.

  13. #13
    Well they announced the next map will be deep within vampire territory, so with that concept in mind, ANYTHING is up for grabs. I'd love to see the sanctuary of the clans, Raziel's territory, the Cathedral, Dumahim territory, Drowned Abbey, pretty much every location in SR1.

  14. #14
    one of the things i, personally, would love to see is the Final boss Chambers for each of the Lieutenants, before they came to be where they were in Soul Reaver. Each one has their own level with some great designs, so it would be interesting to see what they looked like BEFORE they came to be where they were at Raziels return.

  15. #15
    Dumah's throne room <3

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by mappalazarou
    (I wish this was a poll!)
    ^This. If we could somehow get a poll going, it would definitely help the devs at Psyonix see which areas the players want the most. I'm sure there must be some way to make one, but I honestly have a rather limited knowledge of forums.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by mappalazarou
    He does make a good case, you're right! I still think it'd be too buried at the heart of Kain's empire though, like he says. For some reason I feel that if the clans can unite their vampy armies against the humans then they could protect the Sanctuary and anything within its close vicinity.

    I've always seen it as like attacking the capital of a country. First you have to win the lands between here and there, and I guess I could buy that logic especially since Nosgoth is death-match orientated. I'm not sure I'd be convinced by it though. If the humans were powerful enough to breach the Sanctuary then I think, realistically, some sort of unexplained cataclysm must have occurred in order for them to be in the state they are by the time Raziel is reborn.

    I like the idea that maybe they kept the Razielim flags up (or even put them back up following Raziel's execution) because they were helping fight the humans off is a really, really clever idea and fills in what I considered to be a bit of a plot-hole in Soul Reaver.

    I really like the idea you have for the City of Dumahim! I think that's an excellent way to keep it consistent.


    I agree that they're closely related, although not just any location should appear
    I'm flattered that my previous post is getting this much attention. Lol You have some good points as well, but I think a unified group of humans could easily overpower a unified group of vampires. Think about it, the vampires are uniting out of necessity. They still hate each other. The humans would be unified in a common cause without the internal fighting the vampires would have, plus the humans would be fighting for their freedom, a very powerful cause. So I think if the humans attacked the Sanctuary, they could take it, but the fact of whether or not they actually do is irrelevant when determining whether or not to put it in the game.

    Your point about taking all the lands between "here and there" is very valid. It would be tough to get deep in vampire territory without taking other points, though it wouldn't be impossible. However, the amount of time left open in this time period (~1000 years) could permit the humans to take key points that are close to the Sanctuary and still give the vampires plenty of time to retake them by the time Raziel returns. Plus, not all of the clan territories necessarily match those given in Soul Reaver. The Silent Cathedral (which is very close to the Sanctuary) could still be under the control of the humans. We are never given a time frame for when the Zephonim moved in.

    As for the unexplained cataclysm you mentioned, Kain's return could be a likely candidate, however, by the time Soul Reaver comes around the clans are "scattered to the corners of Nosgoth." I like to think that there is no real winner from the war for Nosgoth. Both the humans and the vampires get screwed in the end because of the war, and that's what we see in Soul Reaver.

    I too, love the idea of Dumah's clan territory, and I like the way it's been described in this forum. I also agree that pretty much any location from SR would be a great addition. Hopefully we'll get some cool places coming up soon.

  18. #18
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    I wanna see vampire territory on the front lines, currently under human occupation. Some historical places if possible like Malek's Bastion, Nupraptor's Retreat, Uschtenheim, Coorhagen and the maybe what remains of the Sarafan Stronghold on the Southern Great Lake.

  19. #19
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    About the Silenced Cathedral, we have to keep in mind that it was already completed by the time of Raziel's execution, or else its big mossy spiral minaret wouldn't be visible in the mountains during the intro video. It's ready to go. This means Zephon's conquest of the Cathedral has to take place soon after Raziel's death, at the very latest (which seems to make the most sense). It can't just stand there under human control, apparently finished, for another few hundred years – the humans would play their hymn.

    Yet, this war is indeed hundreds of years later. The Cathedral's also supposed to be potent even by the time Raziel returns, meaning that if the humans actually take it back during this war, it should mean game over for the vampires. They'll use the pipes, which means we're done. End of story. So in respect of Soul Reaver's world, any deathmatch in the Cathedral should work with the premise that the Zephonim already control it, and never really cede that control.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  20. #20
    Vorador's mansion.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    About the Silenced Cathedral, we have to keep in mind that it was already completed by the time of Raziel's execution, or else its big mossy spiral minaret wouldn't be visible in the mountains during the intro video. It's ready to go. This means Zephon's conquest of the Cathedral has to take place soon after Raziel's death, at the very latest (which seems to make the most sense). It can't just stand there under human control, apparently finished, for another few hundred years – the humans would play their hymn.

    Yet, this war is indeed hundreds of years later. The Cathedral's also supposed to be potent even by the time Raziel returns, meaning that if the humans actually take it back during this war, it should mean game over for the vampires. They'll use the pipes, which means we're done. End of story. So in respect of Soul Reaver's world, any deathmatch in the Cathedral should work with the premise that the Zephonim already control it, and never really cede that control.
    It would make sense for the Zephonim to control it soon in the time-frame, looking at its decay. However, do we definitely take the SR cut content as canon in this regard? I mean, the way it was portrayed in the release version was that the humans' Hymn of Death was the action of some desperate people, deluded and hiding away in their stone edifice. It didn't end up as pivotal to the eventual plot. Of course, the Sound Glyph had an effect on vampires, but the idea of a weapon of mass destruction like that, post SR seems a bit unlikely considering all the events that have happened, changes to the timeline etc. I know that we are talking about the older timeline here. Also, I'm not saying, however, that it couldn't have some kind of significance to Nosgoth, or be recycled in some way. It certainly would make an interesting objective.

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    I wanna see vampire territory on the front lines, currently under human occupation. Some historical places if possible like Malek's Bastion, Nupraptor's Retreat, Uschtenheim, Coorhagen and the maybe what remains of the Sarafan Stronghold on the Southern Great Lake.
    I would love to see the remains of the Sarafan Stronghold from Soul Reaver 2, although would they have survived Kain's conquest? The Stronghold itself lies close to the Pillars and therefore the heart of Kain's empire. For some reason I presumed that the Tomb of the Sarafan in Soul Reaver could have been the actual ruins.

    I thought about the area surrounding Nupraptor's Retreat too. Maybe the valley where the skull fell into could be visible, but the map itself would be some distance away in order to preserve the layout of the location as it appears in Soul Reaver?

    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    About the Silenced Cathedral, we have to keep in mind that it was already completed by the time of Raziel's execution, or else its big mossy spiral minaret wouldn't be visible in the mountains during the intro video. It's ready to go. This means Zephon's conquest of the Cathedral has to take place soon after Raziel's death, at the very latest (which seems to make the most sense). It can't just stand there under human control, apparently finished, for another few hundred years – the humans would play their hymn.

    Yet, this war is indeed hundreds of years later. The Cathedral's also supposed to be potent even by the time Raziel returns, meaning that if the humans actually take it back during this war, it should mean game over for the vampires. They'll use the pipes, which means we're done. End of story. So in respect of Soul Reaver's world, any deathmatch in the Cathedral should work with the premise that the Zephonim already control it, and never really cede that control.
    Quite true! I feel stupid for forgetting that it made an appearance during Raziel's execution. Perhaps it wasn't completed inside however? We only see the exterior structure in that scene. Whose to say that the actual sound pipes have been fully installed by that point?
    Originally Posted by DX2014
    Vorador's mansion.
    Hmm. Whilst it would certainly be interesting to see again, I find it difficult to imagine that the mansion had any sort of maintenance following Vorador's execution and so - ultimately - was swallowed by the marsh long before Kain's conquest was over.

    Originally Posted by Sluagh
    It would make sense for the Zephonim to control it soon in the time-frame, looking at its decay. However, do we definitely take the SR cut content as canon in this regard? I mean, the way it was portrayed in the release version was that the humans' Hymn of Death was the action of some desperate people, deluded and hiding away in their stone edifice. It didn't end up as pivotal to the eventual plot. Of course, the Sound Glyph had an effect on vampires, but the idea of a weapon of mass destruction like that, post SR seems a bit unlikely considering all the events that have happened, changes to the timeline etc. I know that we are talking about the older timeline here. Also, I'm not saying, however, that it couldn't have some kind of significance to Nosgoth, or be recycled in some way. It certainly would make an interesting objective.
    I'm sure it was said in Soul Reaver that the Cathedral was designed as the ultimate weapon to battle the vampy race. That said, since the upper levels were never accessible, whose to say whether or not the human builders succeeded in completing the weapon? I don't think that the places cut from the retail release of Soul Reaver can be included as strict canon. That said, both the pinnacle of the Silenced Cathedral and the boss chamber from Kain's Mountain Retreat appear in the Chronoplast visions. Does that mean that the areas themselves actually exist in Nosgoth? And that Raziel was so close to reaching them in his own personal timeline, but that it was Kain's escape into the past which changed events?
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  23. #23
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    It's supposed to be poised to go, even in the current storyline. Daniel said Kain may still use it to wipe out his tainted vampire race someday in a future game. Raziel says its pipes were "once tuned to blast a deadly hymn", and Ariel describes it as "a stifled titan".

    The purpose of the Cathedral was always to blast that hymn; it isn't a repurposed building. Those pipes are critical to the architecture, and even seem to be involved in load bearing from tier to tier. I really don't know that it's believable we would be looking at this worn down, lichen-covered minaret spire with massive holes hollowed out of it in the intro, ready for sound emission, if it wasn't very, very close to completion.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by mappalazarou
    I'm sure it was said in Soul Reaver that the Cathedral was designed as the ultimate weapon to battle the vampy race. That said, since the upper levels were never accessible, whose to say whether or not the human builders succeeded in completing the weapon?
    Yes, I think your right it did. However, it seems to have been a failure. So I suppose one possible reason could be not being completed. Or it could be they turned it on and it made a squeaky farting noise, then died. "Back to the drawing board..."

    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    It's supposed to be poised to go, even in the current storyline. Daniel said Kain may still use it to wipe out his tainted vampire race someday in a future game. Raziel says its pipes were "once tuned to blast a deadly hymn", and Ariel describes it as "a stifled titan".
    Thanks Aevum for some confirmation on that. I can kind of imagine Kain keeping something like that. I suppose a lot of the air vents and things still seemed to be working in SR age. Pretty big fail for the humans if they didn't manage to get it blasting out its toot of destruction. Although, would all the other clans be too happy having Zephon sitting on such a dangerous thing? Even if it might backfire and kill the whole load of them? Also if I was Zephon and quite a sharp tool in the box, would I park my colossal behind inside such a dangerous structure? It's a bit like being trapped in the power plant when it melts down. Unless of course putting myself into the network of pipes was a way of stopping it functioning properly.
    Last edited by Sluagh; 26th Feb 2014 at 15:10.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by mappalazarou
    Hmm. Whilst it would certainly be interesting to see again, I find it difficult to imagine that the mansion had any sort of maintenance following Vorador's execution and so - ultimately - was swallowed by the marsh long before Kain's conquest was over.
    Actually, there could be many uses for it. Even in a ruined state it could make a great hiding place for humans or even Razielim from earlier on when they were being hunted. It's right in the middle of the Termogent forest, which would be dead or dying (would look creepy), but still a great way to provide cover as a way of sneaking an army into the heart of Kain's empire.

    EDIT: So, yeah. Vorador's front lawn, pillars and statues torn down by Raziel (or whoever in this timeline) centuries earlier and surrounded by the dead (due to corrupted pillars and smokestacks) Termogant forest. The Ignus fatuus (which I looked up to be some sort of spirits) still around, maybe some ghostly screams/weeping of Vorador's victims. Some sort of tomb for Vorador as well.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 26th Feb 2014 at 15:58.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

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