Thread: Shalebridge Cradle

Shalebridge Cradle

  1. #51
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    The Cathedral in TDP was creepier than what I'd seen in games before.
    The Cradle in TDS was creepier than the Cathedral.
    The ________ in T4 is should be creepier than the Cradle.

    I want T4 to have a scary level, I'd also want it to be even creepier than the Cradle. But the Cradle was scary only on the first time. The only way to make the mission scarier than the Cradle is to make it surprising, random and unpredictable on each playthrough. I really don't want the scary level to rely on the fact that you don't know that there's nothing dangerous out there. It cuts off the enjoyment of the mission to the very first time.

    The Cradle was like a peanut. When you take off the shell, you can enjoy eating what's inside. After that, all that's left is just the shell, and there's no flavor.

  2. #52
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    Originally Posted by FriendlyStranger
    @acorn, ....
    - I like the Necro tower idea, and I like the magic-wood idea, when its done like in T2 - but NOT when its done the Blair Witch Project way, especially I don't wanna see the optical style of this movie. (RES4 imitated this already, and I don't like it.) The cradle exactly went into this suspense horror direction, therefore I hated it. For me that ain't Thief.
    "Garrett looks into the camera and starts crying and apologizing.."

    As for my own ideas and the cradle, I have played most fan missions and every thief game. And there are several missions that are fun or scary in many different ways with little towns or woodlands.. all sorts of themes. I didn't feel bothered by different terrains and new areas in the fan missions or the cradle. I have never felt like "Garrett shouldn't be there" while I was playing any of them... though I didn't want ME to be in the cradle because it was way scary. T2 had some new areas different from t1.. and T3 the same. so I will have to COUNTER disagree with you. All missions tried have been fun to me... And Garrett liked them too. :P

    If things are too constrained in the new game, because fan paranoia makes the devs worried that they are not making it exactly like t1 and 2, the new game won't be fresh with fresh places fresh intrigue and fresh ideas.

    T1 and 2 were great, but I think most people are not looking for a bland grey remake. We are looking for ANOTHER story that hooks you in and interests you in the characters and intrigue of the city, missions that test you a bit and are a bit scary and fun, and we are looking for a continuation of the Thief SAGA.
    NEW missions in NEW places. Not going the same exact places or type of places as before.

  3. #53
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    ...........................

  4. #54
    Originally Posted by Acorn
    "Garrett looks into the camera and starts crying and apologizing.."
    I don't get it.

    I have got no paranoia, I just want to show what I think about Thief, how I see it. You can of course like the cradle, many say they do...

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    SHUT UP WITH THE REMAKE MYTH! You think WRONG about what "most people" want. You are misunderstanding the language being used by us. As soon as I discover why our words mean something different to the rest of you, I will certainly translate for you.

    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...62#post1854362

    The Cradle stands out so much from all the OMs for its differences from the Thief formula, even though it borrowed many elements from the older titles, and it was generally accepted by the community.
    "A recapture of what has been lost."

    Yeah that sentence is universally applicable to what I want to see in Thief 4. Bring back the ingenuity that made T1,2 great games. The virtue to create something complex - its necessary to achieve something great with a game - Deus Ex managed almost the same. The lack of inspiration and respect for its predecessors made TDS weak, the same lack is also responsible that there have been no more real GREAT titles out there since 2001.
    (Fallout 3 was a first step tough.)

  5. #55
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    Ooh, you're running a big risk mentioning Fallout 3 in a positive fashion round here

    There have been some amazing games since 2001, though.

  6. #56
    Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion
    Ooh, you're running a big risk mentioning Fallout 3 in a positive fashion round here

    There have been some amazing games since 2001, though.
    Yeah but I mean Fallout 3 compared to Oblivion. I personally could not enjoy F 1,2 and I know the hardcore fans of those are deeply disappointed with F3. But for me F3 wasn't bound to be a sequel in means of gameplay. If you see F3 isolated from F1,2 you can hardly say it is a bad game. How all the characters react to your actions, the looting, the ways to play... that hasn't been seen for a long time.

    Regarding the games - I don't remeber any real GREAT things after/besides KOTOR. The late 90s, a bit of the 00s (^^) was in my opinion the best time for pc games.

  7. #57
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    I think Fallout 3 is good and the previous two games are not good, but that is a dangerous thing to say!

  8. #58
    Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion
    I think Fallout 3 is good and the previous two games are not good, but that is a dangerous thing to say!
    I wonder if thats comparable to the T1,2 <--> TDS debate.

  9. #59
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    Originally Posted by jtr7
    SHUT UP WITH THE REMAKE MYTH! You think WRONG about what "most people" want. You are misunderstanding the language being used by us. As soon as I discover why our words mean something different to the rest of you, I will certainly translate for you.
    Shutup? How mature.
    Yes, I do actually believe most people do want new adventures, new areas, new stories, not same old already done. Probably for the same reason I like to believe most people are smarter than they are..

    Otherwise its this:
    Oh I'm in a bank again. Oh I'm doing a warehouse... like that one time. Look the bonehord! Man that takes you back... Oh look I'm back in the SAME EXACT pagan village from T2.......... Ho Hum!

    And that doesn't make any sense at all!

    I see some few talking fondly about bank jobs or other things that have already been done, thats fine, BUT then criticizing my ideas with little else holding up their argument than because they are new ideas that weren't re-used, or because I liked something from all the FMs I played and they haven't seen it. I counter criticize that THEIR idea didn't offer much because its the same thing we've done, so it would just be re-making Thief 1 or T2.
    Then they complain, "Hey I'm just coming up with ideas". Or as you do "SHUTUP!"
    So are we coming up with ideas or are we criticizing? I assure you that if all the developers do is re-make the bank job and the prison break, and other area runs "with a new story tacked on to it" it will be a Remake. Thats not a myth. Thats what happens when there is no creativity.

    My first scary area idea happens to have cabins in it. According to Somebody, cabins+spookyness somehow magically makes it = to the movie Evil Dead.
    Like no one ever thought of cabins in woods before Sam Raimi. My dad used to tell me old depression era ghost stories that would curl your hair, involving lonely houses and drifters, and ghosts or other things. I even pulled my idea largely from PERSONAL experience of what spooked me when I was younger and in a place that was like this. I was Physically there. So, actually that IS pretty original. But thank you for insulting me instead of just posting your own story idea. Critic is easier and quicker than the time one might spend creating something isn't it? I guess its stupid to come up with new scary ideas or any at all for that matter...

    Actually, cabins were used in the pagan village T2 too, but nevermind that.. These buildings are un-thief like! They might be by a lake, Gasp! And an Orchard :O Oh noes new scenery! And.. And.. there might be different types of scaryness than before so lets just avoid the whole thing!

    Hay! How about ANOTHER run at Lord Baffords then? Thats nice and safe. And its an idea I have a feeling some people would rather get behind.

    ** I just mentioned earlier that each thief game added/used new areas different than the last. **
    So THEREFORE YESSS the addition of new areas are in fact cannon to this game.

    One person only liked my Tower idea.. why? Because there was a crappy Necromancer Tower in T2! :O This is the ONLY reason you're going to give for why you liked it?! There's nothing else? I think its maybe the reason to get rid of it then >
    Now that I think of it, with all the rooms and some undead, it is a little too like what was done before so would probably be boring.

    And since you speak about reading a post wrong, JTR, I saw some of mine that YOU tore into seemingly without reading what I said at all. You have no room to scream shutup at anyone.

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  11. #61
    As much as I hate to comment. ACORN, you really are not understanding what is going on with the game, or the comments, or how a forum functions.

    So nobody posted. Act like a mature individual and not a rwo year old who can't play with the toy.

    Many times someone posts and no-one replys. It is as common as day and night. Live with it. If your juvenile ego demands that people recognize your every thought as "genius" or rare value, you are living in a fantasy.

    From what I have read here you really don't get it at all, and a mild SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE, is really an understatement.

    Ignore the "mod" title. I am a player, a reader, a poster. My comment carries no more weight than any other, including yours, but you really don't get it, and probably never will.

  12. #62
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    Originally Posted by jtr7
    The old maturity snipe. That's never effective, either. You are speaking in clichés and giving over to straw man arguments--also ineffective and immature. You're one of the bunch of people that makes crappy assumptions and over-generalizations, when it's stated repeatedly these are incorrect.
    .
    No, I went over the exact posts before I commented. Everything was exactly what I meant and felt about it.
    As for you. You fill your arguments with confidence in your own rightness but little else.

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    I screamed SHUT UP because it's really really old to hear that parroted baseless complaint we keep trying to dispell over and over and it's not getting through.
    I call them as I see them. If you see lots of people saying something about posts, as you said, there is ALSO a chance that they are right and you are the one not seeing something. Screaming louder still doesn't change that. If you want to scream, try your mother. I don't tolerate it.

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    I want to return to The City and see more of it. I don't know how to make that clearer to both sides.
    I had a post about the city style somewhere that you treated badly too when we were trying to come up with ideas other than the T3 hub. You assumed things that I didn't mention (I was just talking about what might be done other than a hub that I could think of) without asking me, well what about this other part of the story/game? So why accuse me of what you do?

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Your Garrett crying comment has a weird tone to it, and it SEEMS to be obnoxious for the wrong reasons, so you are getting a bad reaction to it
    But you're such a movie fan, with Evil Dead and all, I would have thought you would recognize a blarewitch joke. You didn't see it then...

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    You also shouldn't expect everybody to respond to your posts and check off everything they like and don't like.
    Actually if its a negative critique, I do expect people to make a clear argument why. Because you know I'm going to read it and be wondering what you mean. If some say that they hate my idea and liked what was done before, and only says that, What do you think that looks like to me? If they hated it for a reason other than that it wasn't olds, You'd think they would say that instead. It would be at the forefront of their mind instead of "I only like old thief missions".

    Maybe it would be a good idea to snap everyone out of that. That is the idea that those of us you are Yelling at have right now. Yelling to "Shutup!" doesn't change that opinion. If the fault is that someone didn't say, "well I want just a few old missions added in, thats what I meant." Then that is their fault for not writing it. Just like its my fault if I don't clarify what I say. WELL since we can't read their mind, we'll never know. We just know what we see.
    "I hate your idea" is always provocative. You guys didn't like it either when it was you.

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Correct the fallacy and be happier.
    Same to you [salutes].

  13. #63
    okay i think acorn and jtr7 should just move on and focus on the thread: what people want to see in thief 4 if there is to be a new really good scary level.

    personally, i think that being fearful of yourself and not just your surroundings would make it an incredibly original concept. for example, if garrett reads of someone who decided to do something horrible to someone, then he starts to feel the urge to do so himself. by this the player is given the opportunity to worry more about themself and what they are fully capable of...and potentially leave themself more open to attacks from the surroundings

    if there is anyway of encorporating this into the game i would love to see the designers try it, could well make for a highly regarded game i hope

  14. #64
    For my part the psychobabble mind games as offered above is an addition that would ruin the game, and frankly the mere consideration of such crap makes me head for the loo to worship the GREAT GOD RAALLLPPPH!

  15. #65
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    The problem with horror levels that rely on either fear of the unknown or jump-out-of-closet scares is that they are disposable preducts. They only have one dose of fear for each new player. Resident Evil, Doom 3, Silent Hill and the Cradle in TDS are exactly like this. They can only scare you once.

    The only way to make a replayable scary level is to make everything unpredictable and random. Not in a way that it makes the enemies randomly jump at you, but other subtle scares that I mentioned before.

    The Thief-series is a strange one. It tries to be less action-oriented and it makes the player more powerful than the enemies by giving him stealth. The games are very different from any other games and it tries very hard to stay that way. Simultaneously, the series has somehow accomplished to create not only one of the scariest levels in videogame history, but also the scariest enemy in a videogame ever, the Haunt. I think that for each Thief-game, they should not only try to design a scarier level than in the previous title, but a level that's the scariest they can possibly come up with. It seems that that was their intention with the Cradle. The wonder with Thief is that it can be ground-breakingly fresh and new, and still have aspects of other games, done better than ever before.

    The regular human missions should be as down-to-earth as possible to give that classic Thief-feel, but as a contrast, the scary mission should really be horror beyond imagination.

  16. #66
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    It's a difficult equation, and most of it relies on a definition of scary. A return to Shalebridge would be possible but maybe not in T4. Howabout say, in T6 you suddenly found out you were going back, the impact would be so much greater. We're just a bit too close at the moment.

  17. #67
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    The cradle as I have always said and thought not so much zombies and haunts it plays on the mind with what happened and the eerie haunting sounds.
    Horror and the Un-dead make you jump for just a moment then that is it The cradle is something else I loved it though.
    Sure there could be something else on that level apart from the cradle.
    So many fan missions have some wonderful moments. Like Drks Rocksburg missions.
    I would love to have another level on par with the cradle though, even returning there has the same feel to me of fear more than zombies. Why not return with it restored for just a while. Then......

  18. #68
    Originally Posted by Flashart
    It's a difficult equation, and most of it relies on a definition of scary. A return to Shalebridge would be possible but maybe not in T4. Howabout say, in T6 you suddenly found out you were going back, the impact would be so much greater. We're just a bit too close at the moment.
    I could live without any future references to the cradle.

  19. #69
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    Originally Posted by FriendlyStranger
    I could live without any future references to the cradle.
    It was just my opinion and not a serious one. I said on a par so many great moments in the fan missions which are as eerie. You don't have to read it.

  20. #70
    Sry I just quoted the wrong post...

  21. #71
    The Cradle was SICK! I loved that level, i hope there is something of the like in Thief 4

  22. #72
    Puppets:



    (Fashion week in Beijing, China)

  23. #73
    Hahahah great pics !

  24. #74

  25. #75
    Not sure if you've read this rather old interview with Stephane Roy, but based on his answer to this very question, a horror level in the new Thief is pretty much confirmed:

    "Strategy Informer: There is a tradition in Thief to have at least one utterly terrifying level, such as ‘The Cradle’ in Deadly Shadows or ‘Return To The Cathedral’ in The Dark Project. Will there be a pure horror level like these?

    Stephane Roy: [slight pause, presumably as Stephane considered how much to tell me] Like you said, it’s a tradition, and when we started to work on this project I guarantee that we did our homework to understand why people were in love with this franchise. I think we understand very well what makes a good Thief game. That’s the maximum I can tell you without Adam [Square’s PR man sitting in on the conversation] cutting me off, but I think if you read between the lines you can get your answer there... [Adam: “Alright, that’s enough!”, we laugh – I’m guessing that’s a big yes!]"

    Source: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/t...interview.html

    I for one can't wait to see how they'll implement their whole "mystical, not supernatural" approach to horror, but what I would really like to see is a level where everything starts off with a quiet house, no one inside, easy break-in, nicely lit, enticing loot and then it all slowly goes to s*** due to poltergeists throwing the loot right at you, lights going out, doors and windows becoming barred and your only chance of escaping is to hide from the ghostly apparitions until sunrise

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