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Thread: Legacy of Kain: Defiance (speedrun)

  1. #1
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    Legacy of Kain: Defiance (speedrun)

    Hi there

    I`m new to this forum but not new to the Legacy of Kain saga . I love the Defiance game and would like to speed run it but the problem is I can`t find a way to speed up chapter 4 where you are forced to fight all the time (and that will not be a speedrun but a simple playthrough).

    My question is. Have you ever encountered a glitch or find a way to get out of the barrier that blocks you to go further and you HAVE TO fight ? If anyone would like to help me out with speedrun or point out some mistakes I`ve made here`s the link to comment (or here, it doesn`t really matter). The main topic is here:
    http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/i...c,10017.0.html

    Have a good day and bye

  2. #2
    Sorry everyone for resurrecting an old thread but I think it deserved much more attention than it actually got. Besides - everyone here loves vampires so I hope this little act of necromancy will be forgiven (and it was still on the first page anyway ) .
    Regarding the topic - for anyone interested - the run has been submitted and verified and is available here:
    http://speeddemosarchive.com/LegacyOfKainDefiance.html

    Carosh - I don't know if you will be reading this, but if you do: Well done
    I know how much dedication completing a speedrun actually takes.


    (But there still is some room for improvement )

  3. #3
    I just HAVE TO say that I don't like speedruns... I believe in playing the game as it is conceived (with the exception of the funny crack codes you can play with after finishing the games for the first time)... I believe the whole point of having good fighting style is to actually do the fights... sorry if my comment displeases you, I'm aware of the dedications you need to put into developing a speedrun, but I can't let the opportunity pass to point out my strong opinion about it... sorry in advance
    "Truth that's told with bad intent Beats all the Lies you can invent."
    William Blake

  4. #4
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    Well, if someone does a speedrun, it's most likely that they've already played the hell out of the game and really know it well, like when I managed to beat Metal Gear Solid with the Big Boss rank. I really enjoy watching speedruns for games that I like. It's great to see all the different ways to deal with parts of games. And after watching them, I can learn new tricks to try out in them, especially in games like Super Metroid.

  5. #5
    Okay... WHAT IN GOD'S SAKE IS A SPEEDRUN?!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    Okay... WHAT IN GOD'S SAKE IS A SPEEDRUN?!
    The name suggests what it is. It means completing a game as fast as possible using any means necessary (except cheating of course). It usually means that you have to memorize every part of the game and research the most effective way to approach it - this includes skipping cut-scenes, skipping fights that are not necessary, exploiting bugs that let you skip part of the game, not collecting upgrades etc.
    Some of these runs are completely crazy, like for example completing Diablo in 3 minutes and 12 seconds:
    http://speeddemosarchive.com/Diablo.html

    And as Zulgbrtzchllha said - you can learn many tricks that help you deal with particular boss/level/whatever. Like for example Sebastian in BO2, who for me is the most annoying boss in the game, can be a complete pushover:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkRNChznOII

    And Cata_Blake - I see your point but I disagree - I believe that games should be played the way the player likes. That's why we have the ability to skip cut-scenes, select different difficulty setting or spend hours looking for every secret hidden on the map - to customize the experience. And if someone enjoys rushing through the game they can play it that way.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    Okay... WHAT IN GOD'S SAKE IS A SPEEDRUN?!
    Haha! My thoughts exactly.

    Thanks for explaining it Paradocks. Personally I'm quite fond of cutscenes and the dialogue in games especially LoK... but as Simon Templeman said in the SR2 outtakes...

    "It's a lot of old chat, isn't it?"
    History abhors a Paradox - Raziel SR2

  8. #8
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    And of course when you're just replaying a game for fun and for the gameplay, it can be pretty nice being able to skip the cut scenes.

  9. #9
    That's one thing I never understood, was playing through a game just to be the first to complete it. I've read posts where people get the game, play through in one overnight binge, and are done with it. I mean if you pay $60 for a game, why would you put 12hrs into it in one binge of playing, just to be done with it.

    On the other hand, if a game is enjoyable and you've played through it a few times, and you just want to refresh your memory of the game (Like playing through the LOK series before a new game is released) I can completely understand a speedrun.

  10. #10
    The ironic part is that making a proper speedrun actually takes much more time than playing the game "correctly". And I would love to be able to skip cut-scenes in BO2 .

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    The ironic part is that making a proper speedrun actually takes much more time than playing the game "correctly". And I would love to be able to skip cut-scenes in BO2 .
    and that's because of?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    and that's because of?
    Which part of my quote are you reffering to? The time to make a speedrun or skipping cut-scenes in BO2?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    Which part of my quote are you reffering to? The time to make a speedrun or skipping cut-scenes in BO2?
    about the time

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    about the time
    Because when a speedrun is "published" you see a final result - a video showing completing a game the fastest way possible. But you have to take into account the process of making that video.

    First is the actual research.
    For example you have a game with several weapons and a few combos for each. Now you have to do all the testing - I can kill enemy type A with weapon B using combo 1 in 7.5 seconds. But it takes 7.2 seconds using combo 2 - and maybe there is a more efficient way, like for example starting a combo and after 2 hits switching to another weapon. And different weapons may work better against certain enemy type - you have to check these possibilities.

    Then there is looking for all sorts of short-cuts - checking if it is possible to make a jump from point A to point B skipping a long corridor in the process. The designers of the game assumed that it is not possible - but that doesn't mean there is no way to do it. And it often takes hundreds of suicidal jumps to find places where it actually is possible.

    Then comes planning. Should the runner acquire certain upgrades? Will the time used for acquiring them help to save some seconds later in the game or is it a waste of time?

    An finally you have to execute the run.
    Since "where am I supposed to go now?" moments are unacceptable, you have to memorize your way through. And the countless restarts, because after 2 hours of flawless gameplay some wayward arrow happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or the runner missed one important jump which resulted in 3 minute cut-scene that cannot be skipped. In that case most runners will restart the segment because it was not good enough.

  15. #15
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    Oh man do I know that it takes a lot of time to really learn these games to try those sort of speedruns. Just my own experience with the Metal Gear games again, learning the routes of enemies to figure out how to get through without getting caught, and at the same time, doing it fast. I love watching videos of people doing Metal Gear speedruns. It's hilarious sometimes the tricks I see them do, and you find out about these dumb little glitches that you can abuse to the fullest extent too. Like when I learned that in Metal Gear Solid, if you want to run over those noisey floors but don't want to make any noise, just hit the weapon equip/unequip button fast and Snake will keep starting the same animation over and over again and so never take a step.
    I've also seen Samus in her underwear in Metroid and Metroid 2, which if you don't know, means I beat them each under three hours. So I had to really learn those games well to make it through fast. Especially Metroid, which is so ridiculously repetitive that it's easy to get lost or wander off into some area that'll take forever to get though, but had nothing at all to reward you for it. Metroid 2 was easier, I just had to figure out the fastest way from one save point to another while going in the right order and making sure to get enough powerups to be able to take on the Metroid Queen when I finally get to the end. If you didn't get enough missile upgrades by that fight, you're screwed!

  16. #16
    So that means speedruns are more made for the experience of doing it and for people that want to watch the game, to be able to watch it and not lose a big chunk of time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    So that means speedruns are more made for the experience of doing it
    That would be correct

    and for people that want to watch the game, to be able to watch it and not lose a big chunk of time.
    I would say they are aimed rather at people who:
    1) Enjoy watching speedruns in general - people who like watching smooth, skilful and creative gameplay ("How on earth did he do THAT?" ).
    2) What has been stated numerous times in this thread - people who played the game, but are looking for hints and effective strategies.
    3) People who love the game and want to know everything about it.

    I don't think people who just want to watch some game footage would be watching speedruns, mostly because runs skip large parts of games (often whole levels), dialogue and cut-scenes whenever possible. This way you don't get any idea about the story and simply miss a large part of the game. Morrowind may be huge game that takes many hours to complete, but that doesn't mean you can't finish it in less than 8 minutes.

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