Thread: Angry fans or cunning fans?

Angry fans or cunning fans?

  1. #1

    Angry fans or cunning fans?

    I have been posting here on the forum for a day and I have seen enough angry posts to begin thinking about demonic origins of these forums.

    While it's great fun battering developers to dust and taking out all your frustration with Ion storm's work on new developers who as I understand, have hardly gone past creating logo they are very proud of with the new Thief game, I just can't see all this going anywhere.

    In fact only thing I see this accomplishing is that EM deciding that there is no way they can please Thief fans, focus all their attention on creating game completely meant for new and casual players, depriving us of every little bit of enjoyment we might have had with the game.

    I believe we are wasting what I would call a most fortunate turn of events, which is EM opening this forum and starting to take feedback on the stage where they have hardly gone past concept stage[and of the logo they are very proud of]. And trust me when I say this is a very rear thing, you should see how Bethesda bastards take fan feedback during game production, announcing it only when it has been four years into development.

    Now what I believe would be a better use of this possibility and in general better course of action is to use higher level of cunningness inherent in all Stealth players to our advantage.

    Instead of just random *ing and whining lets put more organized and potentially useful effort into helping EM create the game we will enjoy playing. We should analyze all information available to us, have a solid understanding that there is no way we can have 100% game we want and instead focus on making that said percent as close to 100 as possible. We should make a list of all things we like in thief, analyze all the new tendencies in gaming world and try to guess how they will effect our game, the we should decide what aspects of these we can leave with and which of them are to sacrilegious to be allowed to exist, we should also make use of the list about all things we like in thief, and give priorities to various parts of it, we should make sure EM has good understanding what parts of Thief we absolutely and without question want to see returning in Thiaf, what parts we prefer to others and what parts we can live with being removed. We should also think about how it is possible to make thiaf enjoyable for both casual and new and hardcore players, one example that comes to mind is making good use of mission difficulty settings, EM can dramatically change game experience between various difficulties even more so then in other thief games, leaving easy and normal for new and casual players, and hard/expert for us hardcore fans, they can also show their respect to fans by adding special difficulty modes like ghosting, showing us that they are watching fan forums and are aware of its traditions and activities, but most important of all is that we should create forum and community developers will feel comfortable conversing and asking advice/feedback from, and not community they are afraid to show their face on, for the face of having rocks and fire arrows thrown at it. The importance of these is paramount! Right now we are just scaring our only chance away. Hold your primal fury and *ing in check and try to use your cunning instead.

    YES! as many of you might have guessed
    what I'm suggesting is a new secret organization which will work towards us getting the new Thief game we will all love to play. I would like it named "Shadow Council", but there is one name more in the spirit of thief games ... Keepers ! The developers and the world has become to lost to the cause to maintain the delicate balance between forces of casual and forces of hardcore, they need arrogant and all knowing bastards such as ourselves to keep them from selfdestructive paths. The world has need of Keepers once again! will they answer?

    oh and please remember the wisdom bestowed upon us by thief mission cinematics...

    "Orks, Orks, Orks, Orks! Orks, Orks, Orks, Orks!" - Orks
    err that can't be it, hmm ah here it is!

    "To Manipulate A Man Is A Careful Project. Too Light A Hand, And He Follows His Own Whim; Too Heavy A Hand, And He Will Turn On You." -- Chronicle Of The Metal Age


  2. #2
    Hi. I'm here for the job of interpreter?

    And I'm totally NOT trying to bring everything down from the inside by wearing the skin of small children.
    "Going legit is more trouble than it's worth." --- Garrett

  3. #3
    There are literally TONS of positive feedback and ongoing discussions around the game's potential in this Forum and it really isn't fair to any of the posters here to concentrate only on..."angry posts" when commenting on the situation here.

    Now that I think of it, just wandering: what exactly do you perceive as "angry posts" and "whining", anyway?

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    This forum is about 7587.4 times better than the Deadly Shadows one was.

  5. #5
    Also, I'm fairly certain that the company that's making Deus Ex 3 was well aware of the fact that there is no pleasing the fans before they ever decided to make Thief 4.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    If its anything like Thief 2, then I'll be pleased...
    Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope.

  7. #7
    Overall I think this forum is very good for the few die hard fans of the Thief games. I do think EM will do what they want regardless and know no matter what they do it will probably disappointed the fans. However with the information we are providing I do think they will attempt to make something to please the old fans.

  8. #8
    True, not everyone will be pleased. To try to please everyone is to please no one. But if they choose to use the Thief franchise, then they are bound to the previous conventions with a handful of innovations thrown in. I expect the developers to honor the previous games, TDS included. TDS had heart but was hobbled by the anemic RAM restrictions of the original XBox and a bear of a light propogation engine.

    If they use the Thief moniker and make yet another shooter or Tomb Raider or GTA clone, then shame on them. But I believe they took the Thief franchise for a reason, because they enjoyed the series and what it has to offer.

  9. #9
    I think there are a whole lot less "angry posts" than their are "honest posts". True, there are some people who just want to throw punches, but the majority of us have Thief's best interests in mind and believe that the best way we can help is to be brutally honest about what mistakes have been made in the past an d how they should be fixed in the present. This doesn't mean we blame EM for anything, so far they have done nothing wrong and been nothing but benevolent toward us, we are just offering up advise and if it seems like we are being harsh, its because we care.

  10. #10
    hellwalker while i understand why you would do this (to some extent), i think you are presuming too much. First of all this forum is quite civilized as i'm yet to see any serious flaming or mental retardation. Sure there have been outbursts, but for a gaming forum this one is as clean as Bafford's polished silver scepter...

    Secondly anger, when expressed in a civilized manner and backing up a point, is not a bad thing. Anger for the sake of writing in all caps and pointing fingers, i'd be against as well. But myself and a few other Thief fans have expressed anger at absurd ideas, and that shows passion, not mental deficiency.

    Third, your portrayal of the current developers as shy, wide-eyed maidens that would get scared off at the first glance of someone *writing* angrily is silly IMO. Most of the devs are gamers themselves and I'm sure nothing that has been said here is new to them in terms of language.

    So then, making artificial councils and roleplaying is good and all, but it wont' help change the devs' minds if they have not began paying attention to their own forum already. We are doing what is the essense of your suggestion already - telling them what we liked about the Thief games and what we didn't like about them, giving suggestions for improvements and new additions... Each major part of the game has it's own topic and I can't see this becoming any better with shadow councils or keepers

  11. #11
    I've noticed some angry posts on here, and a few of them are directed at other taffers!

    Clashing views and opinions, some want Garrett and some dont, some want it consolised and others dont, and on the thread involving the idea of female guards, sexism.

    Seriously fellow taffers, stop the bar fights
    Important message to the Dev Team: Garrett CAN swim. Burricks DO exist.

  12. #12
    It would be pretty easy to please most Thief fans, I think.... take T2 and upgrade it. Upgrade the level size, upgrade the level feel, upgrade the plot, upgrade the equipment, upgrade the immersion. Most of the grumblings, in essence, are about how TDS downgraded from T2. Using T2 as a guide, Eidos can't go far wrong... even if they never read the forums.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Myth
    hellwalker while i understand why you would do this (to some extent), i think you are presuming too much. First of all this forum is quite civilized as i'm yet to see any serious flaming or mental retardation. Sure there have been outbursts, but for a gaming forum this one is as clean as Bafford's polished silver scepter...

    Secondly anger, when expressed in a civilized manner and backing up a point, is not a bad thing. Anger for the sake of writing in all caps and pointing fingers, i'd be against as well. But myself and a few other Thief fans have expressed anger at absurd ideas, and that shows passion, not mental deficiency.

    Third, your portrayal of the current developers as shy, wide-eyed maidens that would get scared off at the first glance of someone *writing* angrily is silly IMO. Most of the devs are gamers themselves and I'm sure nothing that has been said here is new to them in terms of language.

    So then, making artificial councils and roleplaying is good and all, but it wont' help change the devs' minds if they have not began paying attention to their own forum already. We are doing what is the essense of your suggestion already - telling them what we liked about the Thief games and what we didn't like about them, giving suggestions for improvements and new additions... Each major part of the game has it's own topic and I can't see this becoming any better with shadow councils or keepers
    I see your point, and I made this topic only half seriously.
    And that part come's mostly from frustration with some of my other favorite games that have gone through similar phrase as thief is undergoing now. Like elder scrolls games for example. Maybe I'm just doing the very thing by this I'm trying to prevent here. and failure of other games has nothing in common with Thi4f case, but maybe it does

    So my point was that It's very rare that developers open up to gaming community in such an early state of game development, and that gives me hope that THIS TIME fan feedback might actually do something useful, in terms of developers actually trying to understand what fans want, and not just listen to those who shout their ideas the louder and jump from one extreme to the next each time. [bethesda] and this can only be accomplished with good communication between devs and fans.

    And about angry posts scaring developers away, well maybe I haven't read enough of the forums yet, but from what I have seen, I(!) did get impression that many people are giving punches to the ghosts of IonStorm developers and decisions, and taking out their frustration on EM team. I mean being brutally honest is one thing, but I can't help but notice accusation in their posts, and accusations for the mistakes of Ionstrom that are directed towards EM, which does not make any sense.
    And I do feel devs are afraid of freely communicating with the community, I personally got such impression, I mean I saw very few devs posts for one thing, and I don't mean this in Devs to Users ratio, but more in regards to what amount of dev posts I'm used from other forums, and most of the posts I have seen were like replies to few positive feedback they picked out of the sea of brutally honest posts, and their contents similar to this "thx for support and your faith in us, we appreciate this". you can guess what conclusions I made from this observations.

    as for the tone of my first post and that RP stuff, that is result of me playing Legacy of kain series recently and that can't be helped I'm afraid

  14. #14
    I think its the nature of people on forums to be critical in my experiences, at the very least those with negative comments to say are those that voice their views and opinions more.

    I hope the devs do not get de-moralized by any angry/critical comments!)

  15. #15
    Ha! As i said the developers are not shy forest critters to be scared off by noise I think it's usual for the forum mods and PR guys to post, and the devs to be in the background, either lurking or *working*. Either way, it's no surprise to me IMO that we don't see official posts that much. The company's image is represented by each and every employee posting with an official account, and if you are a good programmer or concept artist, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have good communication/PR skills. So, most probably, Eidos lets the guys/gals that have been hired to be public speakers handle the forums as far as the company's official image is concerned, and the other part of the team to do what they are being paid to do - work on the games.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Myth
    Ha! As i said the developers are not shy forest critters to be scared off by noise I think it's usual for the forum mods and PR guys to post, and the devs to be in the background, either lurking or *working*. Either way, it's no surprise to me IMO that we don't see official posts that much. The company's image is represented by each and every employee posting with an official account, and if you are a good programmer or concept artist, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have good communication/PR skills. So, most probably, Eidos lets the guys/gals that have been hired to be public speakers handle the forums as far as the company's official image is concerned, and the other part of the team to do what they are being paid to do - work on the games.
    Makes sense, lets not get the programmers distracted on the forums, lots of work to be done.

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    People are trolling about stuff they even seen or experienced yet.
    It will calm down eventually.