Thread: T4 - GARRETT: main character, or not? Or new female protagonist?

T4 - GARRETT: main character, or not? Or new female protagonist?

  1. #701
    We can avoid all this "one true Keeper" nonsense if they just make Thief IV a prequel.

  2. #702
    Originally Posted by bambini
    But duuude, he has the Mark on his haaaaand! And the girl! She saw him when he didn't want to be seen! And he said that he was a keeeper!

    It all makes sense. Garrett takes an apprentice, has a whale of a time training her up, but then he's seduced by the awesome power of being the One True Keeper. The game builds to a climactic battle in which Garrett, being the One True Keeper, finds the only glyph that survived: "The w00t Glyph", which means that he can shoot lasers out of his eyes and pound anyone who stands in his way with his special move "the Fiery Blackjack of Unholy Vengeance". The Girl, meanwhile, has to rely on a cheeky Imp that she befriends in the Magical Forest of Unagi, who gives her the power to make anything she touches taste of lemons and who will eventually teach her the Secret Tree of the Pagans, which is a magical tree growing 300 feet under The City. One dragon's tear will make the tree grow unfathomably fast, razing the city and taking Garrett with it. Will she find a drgaon's tear and stop Garrett before it's too late?! You'll have to buy the game and maybe watch the film adaptation to find out.
    That gave me the creeps all right.

  3. #703
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    Originally Posted by ClashWho
    We can avoid all this "one true Keeper" nonsense if they just make Thief IV a prequel.
    Actually, no. We can avoid it exactly by making a sequel, because Garrett isn't the one true keeper anymore. He is before T4. In TDP he's it. In TMA he's it and in TDS he's it. In T4, not anymore.

  4. #704
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    A prequel doesn't mean either a less skilled Garrett or no lockpicking, actually.
    Follow the fortunes of the Thi4f Forum!

  5. #705
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    You could have an open world city where young Garrett would have to stay alive as a street rat with a hunger meter as his primary nemesis, driving him to desperate measures on a daily basis.

    I can see it now...young Garrett, scrounging the streets of the City, beggin' and cuttin' purses just to stay alive day after day, running from the guards and hiding in the sewers.

    The objective would be to stay alive for a year until that fateful day arrives with the Keepers, without getting killed by the guards or by starving to death......and it could be called THIEF 4: "HUNGRY!"

  6. #706
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    or grand theft urchin

    ...street urchin

    .......I'll get my coat

  7. #707
    Food Raider
    Hidden and Hungry
    Assassins Cream


    ...Esme, wait for me, I think I'd better come with you...

  8. #708
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    Esme, you never fail to put a nice grin on my face
    Hello EM!
    *akward silence*

  9. #709
    lets just have 2 campaigns where you can play as the kid for one and garrett for the next so the game has more replay value and you can satisfy both sides of this discussion. the kid should be used for the easier campaign designed for the newcomers and garrett for the returning gamers. and may i ask for the multiplay ability cause that would be awesome (little difficult but awesome)

  10. #710
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    That's cute...

  11. #711
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    A prequel means a less-skilled Garrett, no lockpicking, no overarching plot that can stand up to the trilogy, and making Garrett just as awesome as in the trilogy means Garrett's arc is undercut.
    There's no reason he can't be every bit as skilled as he is in The Dark Project. I don't know where you're getting the idea that there wouldn't be any lockpicking. A prequel could be a fascinating story. He wouldn't be saving the universe, but that doesn't mean the tale can't be every bit as compelling. James Bond, Indiana Jones, Batman, and so on, have all had prequel tales told with great success. I see no reason Garrett would be an exception.

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    It also seems the cowardly way to go. The real challenge is forward.
    Perhaps, but the first three Thief games have a definitive arc. Things seemed to come full circle and there seemed to be closure at the end of Deadly Shadows. An inventive tale of a younger Garrett in a pre-Mechanist, pre-Fall of the Keepers, pre-Return of the Trickster world, could be excellent.

  12. #712
    I'm with jtr7 about moving forward instead of a prequel. I'm not sure about the timespan between when Garrett leaves the keepers and Bafford's but there is quite little space to work with. I'm sure you could get a storyline out of it. But I'm not sure it would be enough for a whole game. Possible antagonists? Well maybe, but why do that when going forward would mean so much more space and time to work with. Specially since EM are free to develope a whole new plot. And hey, Garrett is free to do what he actually want to do. The question should be if EM will let Garrett pursue his own goals, which would mean stealing enough to retire. Or will they let him get dragged into something because of some new unfolding events?

  13. #713
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    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Garrett had no lockpicks before he went to Farkus's.
    ...And Farkus was under the "protection" of a warden, just like all other high-quality hardware dealers in the City, and the lockpicks were incredibly expensive only because Farkus had to manufacture them secretly and sell them "from under the counter" to Garrett because Garrett isn't part of a guild, and the wardens aren't happy about their merchants selling to independents like him. That's also most likely the reason why all the equipment is pretty expensive.

  14. #714
    new here, I read bits of this thread but it was sooo loong so I apologize if this has been ranted about.

    The cutscene at the end of DS was about Garrett, as it was in Dark project.. the last cutscene wasn't about the little girl, nor did Garrett say "we need people like you" or "come with me and we will change your life" yada yada.... the scene in DS was about his character and how he has become his mentor..

    and yeah, like what I have seen mentioned here already.. the last thing we need is Eidos to take a female character and exploit her as it usually happens.. Thief has to be one of the very few non-gender specific games I've actually enjoyed.

    I would not buy this game if they take away Garrett or his selfishness... I like thief for it's "loneliness" i guess.

    If they want to involve females in games more.. make a new game! Don't change our beloved Thief.

  15. #715
    Originally Posted by Loup
    I'm with jtr7 about moving forward instead of a prequel. I'm not sure about the timespan between when Garrett leaves the keepers and Bafford's but there is quite little space to work with. I'm sure you could get a storyline out of it. But I'm not sure it would be enough for a whole game. Possible antagonists? Well maybe, but why do that when going forward would mean so much more space and time to work with. Specially since EM are free to develope a whole new plot. And hey, Garrett is free to do what he actually want to do. The question should be if EM will let Garrett pursue his own goals, which would mean stealing enough to retire. Or will they let him get dragged into something because of some new unfolding events?
    Yeah, jtr7 is convincing me, too, although I still think a prequel could be great. I hope Garrett in Thief IV really does plan to finally steal enough to retire, then everything goes to Hell again and only his thieving skills can fix it - the ol' tried and true Thief storyline.

  16. #716
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    Originally Posted by ed the thief
    the scene in DS was about his character and how he has become his mentor.
    Who? Garrett? who's "mentor"? Garrett is his own mentor?

    Rid.dick was great in Pitch Black and Escape from Butcher Bay when he was a selfish, murderous sociopath. After he started caring about the survival of other people and started talking solely using one-liners in TCoR and Assault on Dark Athena he became just an everyday main character and it sucked.

  17. #717
    Originally Posted by ed the thief
    the scene in DS was about his character and how he has become his mentor.
    Read jtr7 earlier post on this link:
    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpos...&postcount=570

  18. #718
    hundred??
    Free Fall: S = ½a * t²

  19. #719
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    Originally Posted by massimilianogoi
    hundred??
    Pardon him for deliberately underestimating the numbers of keepers. A 100 guys probably isn't nearly enough.

  20. #720
    What would Thief be without Garrett? Besides, there are two important things to note about TDS: First, just because there was a girl at the end, it doesn't mean that she - or anyone - will be Garrett's apprentice. Second, just because it was implied that Garrett returned the Chalice and the Paw back to their respective owners/guardians to prevent any further future calamities, I guess, it does not mean he has turned good for good - pardon the pun. Oh, and but the way, what is this talk about a bleedin' prequel? That didn't work for Star Wars or X-Men or anything else, so let's just bury the idea right now and move on with a sequel, thank you very much.
    I have played through T1, T2, TGold, FMs and TDS, so I most likely know what I'm talking about - so no fair being bullied by the so-called "veterans".

  21. #721
    Mind you, Garrett also has exceptional powers - not abilities or anything, but raw knowledge, which is not bookish Keeper lore, detached from reality, but field experience. From sneaking through the whole City he probably knows more of it (in the present, and on the level of the canny), than any of the Keepers ever did. He also is a master thief, his expertise lies in these twain "departments". Garrett is, in a sense, a very limited person. Apart from things he's involved with, he cannot possibly have any knowledge of other stuff. It's not as if he wanted it, moreover.

    He finally has everything at his disposal: the Keepers are gone (his sole reminders of "duty" and "caring" - in fact most likely the only people who knew [about] him), the City will be - if it isn't already - in turmoil, and, as we all know, nothing like chaos for a good thief.

    Pampering Picatchu-eyed beggar girls won't get him anywhere, and it's against his nature, his skills, his situation. He doesn't care about people. He has no friends, only associates. He steals from poor and rich alike. He views women solely as sexual objects from what we know, and maybe as necks to steal necklaces from. He's a totally surplus person - a parasite on the society in the truest sense - he chose this path deliberately. His only skill (that he would put to use) and use lies in saving the world - and in very small ways smoothing out the inequities between rich and poor. Yes, Garrett has some human qualities, but they would never lead him to actively helping the aforementioned destitute girl. He's against injustice, but that's coupled with a cynicism which make him act only on very rare occasions, and usually against gross injustice or cruelty. Never would he help a beggar - for gods' sakes, he steals from them!!

    He should be setting out for hoarding fat loot, while incidentally saving the world.
    A burrick is for life, not just for Buildermas!

  22. #722
    Originally Posted by SummerGirl
    What would Thief be without Garrett? Besides, there are two important things to note about TDS: First, just because there was a girl at the end, it doesn't mean that she - or anyone - will be Garrett's apprentice.
    You should check some earlier pages of this thread. the argument about her is dropped and then there is a new person (with the idea that just because she is in the cutscene she has some kind of meaning) brings it up again. I would really like to live in one of those peoples shoes for a few minutes. Man, the world must be so different. I mean the hobos in the TDP ending was in the cutscene im sure they should be important to in the later games.

    It all comes down to the feeling:

    Let us leave the taffing girl and see if we can come up with something which is relevant for the thread.

    I love The City and all which is thief and I would love to get more of it. But without Garrett? That would be like watching twin peaks without agent Cooper, playing Torment without the nameless one, playing system shock without Shodan. Sure we get the universe but we would loose both that which the earlier games gameplay and story heavily relies upon. And that is Garrett. What my point is that Garrett is central for the experience it self.

    If we would have another protagonist, would it really gratify the gameplay it self? Would it feel ok to do that which we did as Garrett? My opinion is that it won't feel right to have those extraordinary abilites with another protagonist. And possible other characters? One of the keepers? Who and in which way would it give us a good and relevant storyline.

    I feel that it all comes down to that you will never get the full experience that is Thief without Garrett.

  23. #723

    What makes garrett so great?

    Why do we like garret so much?
    Now most of you people are afraid of putting the girl as the main character. Most of you are afraid of a fresh new start for the game and most of you are really dull and uncreative. So now I want to know why most of you so oppressively hold on to Garret as if your whole life and gaming experience depends on him.
    What is so unique and attractive about him?Think about it for a while, and don't give me that answer he just is , he makes me feel good answer...
    Tell you what I see. I see a depressive, negative self absorbed lowlife.(written in emotion)And he is also cocky funny and sly.Which was all very cool in the 3 games SO FAR. BUT!!!! Honestly I am getting bored of it, I am getting bored of Garrett and his depressive lifestyle and I want a new role in T4.Just ask yourselves could you bare this same old character forever ?Would you like to see him in T6,7 or 8? The same dark moody character? I think not, in the end everything gets dull nothing lasts forever. Well that's what happened to me after I finished TDS. Its time for a change, open your eyes, or give me a damn good reason to force this character in Thief 4!

  24. #724
    You say 'depressive', I say 'hard-boiled'.

    To me, Thief has always been something of a medieval noir. Which makes Garrett the story's Philip Marlowe / Sam Spade character. No matter who fills the protagonist role, they would need to be jaded, downbeat, but far more ahead of the game than they ever let on. Also... part of what makes the less believable elements of the story 'work' (magic, the undead, curses, hauntings, etc.) is how Garrett interacts with them with his trademark cautious, sardonic skepticism. It sells the concepts to the player, and keeps them from coming across as contrived.

    I can't really be 'for' or 'against' the girl at the end of Thief 3 being the main character, because... she isn't actually a character, yet. Just a prop in a throwaway scene meant to convey the irony of Garrett 'becoming the establishment'. If she conveys the same attitudes, she would work in a narrative context. But at that point... you would just have to wonder what the point is of changing characters at all.
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  25. #725
    Originally Posted by cofiking
    Who do you think enjoys the most in life the one who accepts things as they are and enjoys them or the one who always wants to change everything and never accepts that which is?
    I think you are just afraid to accept things as they are so you look for flaws and ways to change everything
    Curiouser and curiouser.

    Why don't we have it as a woman with massive breasts running around with 2 guns finding lost archaeological artefacts.
    I mean this boring old steampunk, gothic, mediaeval, renaissance noir has had its day and who needs another game like that, right?

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