View Poll Results: Would you like Tomb Raider 9 to be M-Rated?

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  • No. Keep Lara Teen

    43 26.38%
  • Yes. I'd like more realistic violence.

    107 65.64%
  • Yes. I want Lara to lose all respect by running around mostly naked.

    13 7.98%
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Thread: Tomb Raider 9: Possibly M-Rated, How do you feel?

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Croft View Post
    Thanks for the information, lilhanhan.
    Hehe no problem, it seems that a little research may go a long way... ^.^;

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by lilhanhan View Post
    Imagining Lara as a "Porn Star" didn't help your side of the argument.

    There's wanting Lara to stay clothed, and then there's imagining Lara as a porn star; they give off two completely different images of your character.
    Read: sarcasm. Anyway, fight closed and I think we can all agree that we don't like sex in a game like TR.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilhanhan View Post
    Mature is 17+, there's also an "Adult Only" which is 18+.

    I've just checked the esrb website to make sure...

    http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp



    EDIT-

    Also it seems that only the "Adult Only" rating allows nudity while "Mature" only allows a bit of sexual content (which would be in terms of references rather than all the things you guys have been worry about...).

    It says in the adult only section, "Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

    So it wouldn't really be a problem if TR was rated mature. ^.^;
    Its a shame this info wasn't posted earlier, I knew this but didn't know where to find a reliable source. Therefore IF TR was M-rated sexual content still wouldn't be allowed anyway!
    It's been a long time since a came around, been a long time but I'm back in town.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1 View Post
    Read: sarcasm. Anyway, fight closed and I think we can all agree that we don't like sex in a game like TR.
    It's easy to say it's sarcasm after the ordeal, but bear in mind it's hard for someone to know that you're joking when that said person is reading your post and not knowing who you really are.

    For all I know you could have been deadly serious about imagining Lara has a porn star. It's kinda hard to notice sarcasm when it's written down, especially when you're part of a serious discussion; sometimes you have to be careful with your choice of words.

    Like I said before, there's wanting Lara to stay clothed, and then there's imagining Lara as a porn star; they give off two completely different images of your character...

    Sarcasm or not, if you say stuff like that someone's going to think of it in a bad way...

    Anyway glad we've cleared that up, it wasn't really a fight; all I was doing was explaining that "Mature" doesn't mean Lara has to go nude and that you were worrying a bit too much. ^.~

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by lilhanhan View Post
    It's easy to say it's sarcasm after the ordeal, but bear in mind it's hard for someone to know that you're joking when that said person is reading your post and not knowing who you really are.

    For all I know you could have been deadly serious about imagining Lara has a porn star. It's kinda hard to notice sarcasm when it's written down, especially when you're part of a serious discussion; sometimes you have to be careful with your choice of words.

    Like I said before, there's wanting Lara to stay clothed, and then there's imagining Lara as a porn star; they give off two completely different images of your character...

    Sarcasm or not, if you say stuff like that someone's going to think of it in a bad way...

    Anyway glad we've cleared that up, it wasn't really a fight; all I was doing was explaining that "Mature" doesn't mean Lara has to go nude and that you were worrying a bit too much. ^.~
    Either they aren't that great with sarcasm, or they are just saying it's sarcasm when someone points something out to them.


  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by LC is Me View Post
    Either they aren't that great with sarcasm, or they are just saying it's sarcasm when someone points something out to them.

    Well I was thinking of saying that, but I thought it would cause another argument. ^.^;

    I've noticed that the ones who mention Lara and sex here have now claimed that they were being sarcastic...I just wanted to end all this before everything kicked off again.

    *Starts to dig her own grave now that she's mentioned this*

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by lilhanhan View Post
    Well I was thinking of saying that, but I thought it would cause another argument. ^.^;

    I've noticed that the ones who mention Lara and sex here have now claimed that they were being sarcastic...I just wanted to end all this before everything kicked off again.

    *Starts to dig her own grave now that she's mentioned this*
    Mm.
    I see.
    Good point.

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  8. #83
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    I voted "Yes. I'd like more realistic violence."
    There's not a single trace of blood in the game :P
    And also I agree with LC is Me and the others-M does not mean nudity...
    I don't mind if the game stays Teen but they could add some blood and more realistic deaths...
    Sorry for my English again,I just registered :P
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  9. #84
    I went for more realistic violence. Everything else graphics wise is getting better so a bit more realistic violence seems the next thing to do. They could still do that and bring it in as a 15.

  10. #85
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by d1n0_xD View Post
    Sorry for my English again,I just registered :P
    All good. Welcome by the way.

  11. #86

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by lilhanhan View Post
    Mature is 17+, there's also an "Adult Only" which is 18+.

    I've just checked the esrb website to make sure...

    http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp



    EDIT-

    Also it seems that only the "Adult Only" rating allows nudity while "Mature" only allows a bit of sexual content (which would be in terms of references rather than all the things you guys have been worry about...).

    It says in the adult only section, "Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

    So it wouldn't really be a problem if TR was rated mature. ^.^;
    Ok, I can't see TR being a 17+! The highest ESRB rating it's got is a 16+, for Anniversary, Legend and Underworld, but that was in other countries. TR1, 2, 3 got a 15+, TR4 got 12+, so did Chronicles and AOD. I don't think CD would get that stupid as if to introduce sex and mature content into TR to give it a M Rating. Games like GTA (Grand Theft Auto), Saints Row 2, [ProtoType] and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, would get a M Rating or 18+ because it has gore, blood, swearing and I think it has sex in GTA and SR 2. The bloodiest part I found in Underworld was doing a adrenaline headshot with the shotgun!

  12. #87
    god damn it, if it is 18 rated (m) then i am going to be so unhappy, if it was 15 then i'd be happy, a 12 rating does seem a bit pathetic. I'd like it to be more teen because then i can buy it myself without having to get my dad to buy it coz he'd be like 'not another tomb raider, wait till your 15'. which would be sooo annoying. any wayz, 12 is crummy, but wouldn't you think that if tomb raider was 18 (m) that it'd be too vile for lara croft?
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  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by TombRaiderFan09 View Post
    Ok, I can't see TR being a 17+! The highest ESRB rating it's got is a 16+, for Anniversary, Legend and Underworld, but that was in other countries. TR1, 2, 3 got a 15+, TR4 got 12+, so did Chronicles and AOD.
    I think that Anniversary and Legend's rating was set by PEGI when they received the "16+" rating while the BBFC gave them a "12" rating. To make matters even more confusing the classics were rated by ELSPA, so it's hard to compare why each game got their ratings and which games seem more violent, etc.

    All the rating organisations follow the same guidelines by rating them in terms of how much violence and other mature themes are included; but because they're different organisations they may have different views. After all, they are different groups of people. For example, Manhunt 2 was banned but the ESRB would allow a modified/toned down version of the game to be rated adult only (18+) while the BBFC still banned it in the U.K until they went to the High Court.

    Anyway, now the PEGI is rating all games in the U.K and seeing how Anniversary was only suitable for "16+"according to them, I can picture the new TR being an "18+" if there's more violence.

    To me that's pretty daft seeing how Anniversary wasn't really violent at all when compared to other games; how it got a "16+" rating which is more or less a "Mature" rating is beyond me...

  14. #89

    Smile

    Tomb Raider isn't a fighting/shooting game, it's an Action/Adventure game as well as puzzle, those type of game aren't 18+ rated.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by TombRaiderFan09 View Post
    Tomb Raider isn't a fighting/shooting game, it's an Action/Adventure game as well as puzzle, those type of game aren't 18+ rated.
    hmmmm... well i mean blood and gore and language and freaky animations etc. that'd be too much, maybe cool, if they put zombies in like dead rising which was a freaky game, just watching my dad play it was disgusting, but it was adicting to watch. i eventually got nightmares.
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  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by TombRaiderFan09 View Post
    Tomb Raider isn't a fighting/shooting game, it's an Action/Adventure game as well as puzzle, those type of game aren't 18+ rated.
    It doesn't matter about the genre of the game, I bet a puzzle game can end up a "18+" if it included enough violence, etc. (Seems unlikely that a really violent puzzle game is going to be released but you get my point).

    The PEGI says-

    "The adult classification is applied when the level of violence reaches a stage where it becomes depictions of gross violence and/or includes elements of specific types of violence. Gross violence is the most difficult to define since in a lot of cases it can be very subjective, but in general terms it can be classed as the depictions of violence that would make the viewer feel a sense of revulsion."

    So for example if Lara is suddenly impaled (like a spike trap appears from nowhere and kills you) and that makes you feel shocked and slightly disgusted; that can be classed as "18+" if the PEGI feel that that's the suitable rating.

  17. #92
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    No one really wants so much violence that it would be an 18, but yest i suppose with the more realistic violence theme it could include surprise impalement. The classic games did. Although TRs 1-3 weren't ever rated (here in the UK) but TR 4-AOD was. And then the impalements were taken out... it didn't bother me then so why does it now? Although in TRU we see many skeletons impaled in Mexico so why not Lara?

    Despite the impalement arguments the other elements such as, combat violence and worldly elements such as falling to your death and catching alight were more realistic then.
    It's been a long time since a came around, been a long time but I'm back in town.

  18. #93
    I know you don't want the violence to be "18+" but considering that Anniversary was rated "16+" by PEGI although it had no blood and only had mild violence, adding the violence you want would raise the rating.

    I'm not saying that I agree with it; what I'm saying is that from reading the organisation's guidelines it would be likely that the next TR's rating would "18+" (in the U.K) if they included the violence you wanted.

    The PEGI now rates all the games in the U.K, so the BBFC can't give TR a lower rating in the U.K anymore (like they did with Anniversary and Underworld).

    Also the classic TR's (1-3) were rated in the U.K; they were rated by the ELSPA (I stated that in the previous post), their ratings were displayed at the back of the game's box with a "tick and crosses" system.

    Here's a better explanation-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterta...rs_Association



    I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more realistic stuff (I'm all for it if they wish to include it.), in my last few posts I've been trying to explain each of the rating systems and their guidelines. It seems that a few people don't get how they work.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by jayjay119 View Post
    No one really wants so much violence that it would be an 18, but yest i suppose with the more realistic violence theme it could include surprise impalement. The classic games did. Although TRs 1-3 weren't ever rated (here in the UK) but TR 4-AOD was. And then the impalements were taken out... it didn't bother me then so why does it now? Although in TRU we see many skeletons impaled in Mexico so why not Lara?

    Despite the impalement arguments the other elements such as, combat violence and worldly elements such as falling to your death and catching alight were more realistic then.
    M rating in the US is an automatic 17+, so...
    I don't know.

    @TombRaiderFan09: Just because it is Action/Adventure doesn't mean that combat can't be incorporated. The fact that she carries around those pistols and other weaponry, and she is skilled in fighting, I expect better combat and more enemies in the game, or don't pack her down with so much useless junk if we barely get to use it.

    That being said, I wish they'd bring back boss battles.

  20. #95
    I voted no, simply because there is no option for "I dont really care."
    I want more puzzles. So as long as they include that, I'd be content with the added violance/gore.

    Notice how I didnt say anything about nudity? Because thats absolutly absurd. Adding any form of nudity and/or sexuality would take all the respect they have from the TR fanbase, and flush it down the toilet.
    "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces."- Zapp Brannigan

  21. #96
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    Well it appears that nudity is definately a big no for nearly everyone.

    But what about the language?

    In my opinion if they include language it should be the amount they had in Legend.
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  22. #97
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    I think they shouldn't include heavy cursing...Phrases like "What the hell?","Damn" are quite cool

    EDIT: and ofc nudity shouldn't even be an option,they shouldn't even have thoughts about it xD
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  23. #98
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    Post A long thesis

    I finally got around to reading all the posts in this thread. And as expected, this has been a very touchy subject for a lot of people here. And I have got some thoughts of my own. Actually not just to what I read in this thread, but to other comments I read in other threads covering this topic (especially with sex and nudity), and some just my own general ideas. So here goes, and apologies in advance for really running my mouth off in what had become a marathon

    ====

    VIOLENCE

    The general consensus that seems to be found on these boards is a more realistic presentation of violence is favorable. And I don’t think what we as gamers or fans of Tomb Raider are gearing towards is an excess of blood and gore. Certainly not to the extent of Gears of War, God of War, Saw, or a Rob Zombie movie.

    What is really desired, pushing towards realism, is the sense of genuine consequence to the actions taking place in the game. We want to feel that when Lara finds herself in a firefight with mercenaries or a savage struggle with the local wildlife, that there is a palpable sense of danger. She should suffer certain injuries and likewise, her enemies must approach her with trepidation, especially when they are aware of her reputation as a force to be reckoned with.

    SEXUALITY

    Now please note that what I said here is sexuality, not sex. This has nothing to do with turning the franchise into a blatant porn series. But like it or not (as I am aware some of you out there plainly don’t like it) Lara… HAS… sex appeal. And quite frankly I can’t see why this should be a problem.

    The biggest issue I have with the objections to a sexual portrayal of Lara is the perpetration of downright MYTHS. Can we please please PLEASE get past the ludicrous notion that Lara being sexy somehow undermines her being a strong, confident, powerful, graceful, classy, cultured, and intelligent woman?

    I mean who said a woman couldn’t be sexy AND intelligent at the same time? Can’t express naughty humor AND witty repartee at the same time? Can’t show confidence in her looks AND be cultured at the same time? For all you saying “she’s not a porn star, she should be portrayed in only a classy way”, I rebuke with this; It’s true that if she was shown only as a sex symbol it would be a tragic disservice to her and her fans. But I would go so far as to say that her being only a dedicated archaeologist would be just as much a disservice. I want to see a fully dimensional human being, and to me its far more interesting to see complex personality traits that show realistic behaviors than “just the action heroin”, which by itself would be flat and dull. To put it simply, why limit how Lara is defined? Someone who is realistically multi faceted is far more interesting and offers much more to amire.

    Now there was a note here that “Lara is sexy because she’s not trying to be”. And this is correct as well. Yet we see her very often in outfits that accentuate her exquisite physique. That would almost seem like she is showing off, but here’s why that’s not the case. Lara has that aristocratic upbringing and if I understand that culture, women are more often “prim and proper” as the expression goes. But part of Lara’s psychology, is that she lives by her own rules and doesn’t bend to convention. So when she’s going out there looking like she’s posing for a fitness babe calendar, it’s not motivated by any fulfillment of ego or vanity. It’s because she doesn’t care to follow the “rules” of what it is to be a lady, and sure as hell doesn’t give a damn what others in her society think. She’s just doing what she wants to do, with no thought of seeking approval for her looks. And yes, that is sexy as hell. What is also very appealing to me is the range Lara has when it comes to sexiness. She very successfully pulls of beach beauty hotness, athletic hotness, and even elegant and refined hotness. She is diverse and how can that not be seen as enticing on so many levels?

    On the related subject of nudity, I feel it IS justified where the context deems it appropriate. I know some of you will vehemently disagree with that, and that it never has a place anywhere. But those are my thoughts. To take a page from the DOA series, what I find very sexy about that is that while it does show provocative imagery, yet never makes use of full frontal nudity. Instead, they take the more creative approach, employing a combination of controlled camera angles and environmental and other props to obscure the full view of the female so you can't see it all even when she's undressed. And I do fully support that this approach has artistic merit.

    Of course the question is, would any situation Lara finds herself in entail a circumstance that she'd lose her clothing? Probably not. As stated before, she shouldn't be combating tigers and mercenaries in her bikini. But I suppose you might have those down time moments after or in between an exploratiodan, when she emerges from the shower (was seen in an earlier Core game), or she could be lounging by her pool when some agent approaches her for an assignment offer. Maybe even during an exploration, she sees a lagoon with waterfall, and decides to clean up a bit and refresh herself after getting very sweaty and grimy (again employing the DOA approach to the cinematic), where it would be a reasonable action to take. I mean who honestly enjoys feeling grimy?

    So to summarize the sexuality and nudity issue; if we really want it to be handled in a mature manner, gamers need to get past this erroneous notion that the female body and the sexuality aspect of psychology is a “dirty and shameful” thing. It shouldn't be seen as a crime. And remember that point I made of violence? Why do some people want that to be given a respectful treatment with authenticity, but when it comes to human behavior, sex is suddenly not part of the equation of what makes a person realistic? It seems realism is constrained by limiting mores, and it really shouldn't be.

    CONTEXT

    The final aspect of mature content I wanted to tackle is, well content itself. The very substance of the story, the handling of subject matter in both a realistic and thoughtful manner, and mainly being able to explore controversial and provocative issues. And considering what Lara does for a living, the stories are rife with potential here. I mean she's gotta be pissing off a lot of locals, trespassing into territory that is a sacred part of their cultural history. Or just the heated debates she could get into, trying to expose the “truth” (taken from the story context the writers choose to create for various mythologies) that clashes with peoples deeply held beliefs to the nature of deities and relics. A conflict of knowledge vs faith could provide such rich drama. Though really, I'm just spit balling here, lol.

    Then there's the use of language. There was that poll option which never made it in, Lara suddenly dropping the f-bomb left right and center. But we all know she wouldn't adopt that language usage, she far too much a lady for that. But what about the other characters she encounters? She often has to deal with all manner of unseemly people to get leads for what she's looking for. Or how about the mercs she combats in the jungles? Now we would never like to hear this about our beloved heroin – yet is it realistic to expect that they, hired guns not exactly known for refinement, to hold her in the same regard we do? Especially when she is shooting at them? Would it be unrealistic to expect that in the heat of a firefight, they would be screaming the f-bomb at her, not to mention calling her all manner of unsavory descriptions... I'm sure you can fill in the blanks there. Again, we're talking about a ruthless lot, who has no reason to be polite.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatlaUnleashed94 View Post
    Well it appears that nudity is definately a big no for nearly everyone.

    But what about the language?

    In my opinion if they include language it should be the amount they had in Legend.
    I don't remeber hearing any cussing in legend , the closest I heard to cussing was 'Bloody'
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatlaUnleashed94 View Post
    Well it appears that nudity is definately a big no for nearly everyone.

    But what about the language?

    In my opinion if they include language it should be the amount they had in Legend.
    I don't necessarily want full frontal nudity, but I wouldn't mind some creative and artistic suggestive nudity (a-la DOA). Read my above post to clarify.

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