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Thread: Love everything but the games

  1. #1

    Love everything but the games

    Anyone share this feeling? I remember playing BO1 for the first time, even in 2006 thinking I've never heard such amazing voice and manuscript as Simon Templeman narrating everything in Nosgoth. I think I fell in love with the game when Kain said "I care not for the fate of this world!", because well I've always thought all these Hollywood heroes in games act good but are really sociopaths that never stop to reflect on anything (kill 500 men and women with a chainsaw? No biggie, can still light a cigarette without shaking). Kain though indifferent talks about the horrible things in Nosgoth and even as he drains four people of blood he says it's a shame to waste lives

    Then I played SO1 and I really loved that this time Raziel was this more typical "Hollywood monster" killing all his brothers without hesitation and the guy you knew and loved was the bad guy. Even now Kain reflecting on the very subject. Also the game was fun, but in SO2 and Defiance I felt 50% of the plot came from murials and all you did was the same puzzles over and over. BO2 was a little different but I don't know, you could still glide and plot-wise I think it failed miserably. It was supose to be an insight in what Kain was doing but only created question-marks that never were answered in Definance (the only exception was why Janos was in the machine).

    I guess I almost feel suckered. They've got amazing voice-actors and a nice manuscript, which you imagine is easy to change and they just made the same game over and over with better graphics. I still think platform-games are fun, but I think they could've had a lot of fun making a new game everytime as I imagine a lot of fans stayed because of everything but the games. LoK could've been known as a testing ground for inovation always standing firm on the back of a unmatched deptness is all I'm saying

  2. #2
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    Yeah, I don't think the gameplay was as good in the games after Soul Reaver. I wish they were able to have more time with each game to make each one better than the last.

  3. #3
    Please don't feed the troll. If we leave it alone it will go away.
    -Raziel: [to Elder God] "I'm beginning to think the vampires committed suicide only to escape your singing!"
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the gameplay was as good in the games after Soul Reaver. I wish they were able to have more time with each game to make each one better than the last.
    are you kidding me?? It only got better after Soul Reaver!!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Yautjatraker/Albatraous View Post
    Please don't feed the troll. If we leave it alone it will go away.
    What?

  6. #6
    I played Soul Reaver last of the series and I really found it horrible to fight there... I think they made big improvements in gameplay in SR2, BO2 and Defiance

  7. #7
    Anyway, I agree they improved the controls, camera, graphics and even gameplay but I sitll think it felt a lot like the same game except for the awsome manuscript. My point is with such powerful voice-acters and interesting manuscript they could afford to do innovative things. It's still understandable Eidos wouldn't want to publish games that aren't sure bets.

  8. #8
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    I think that the series only got worse after SR2. BO2 and Defiance just can´t match up in gameplay terms to the rest.

  9. #9
    Personally, I think that the series got better from SR2 forth. What I really didn't like about SR1 was its level construction, I never liked liner levels where you have to fight boss in the end to complete it. In terms of exploration SR2 was the best in the series, not bound to levels and load screens, it was a free-roam game where you had to find things on your own around the map. It was not hard but it was different than the rest of the series and the time traveling made the same zone look different depending on the time bracket.

    On the other hand, Defiance borough the best fighting system in LoK. The DMC-like style fighting system performed pretty well and the combos were not so bad combined with the Reaver gouge skills and actions. The only bad thing was that there were few combos which was limiting your choices. Doubling the amount of moves than what there were in the game would have made big difference.

    If there is an other LoK game it should defenetly keep the same fighting system but enhanced with more combos and chain-combo moves to make the fighting more diverse. In therms of puzzles and exploration, the SR2 system should be kept with simply adding more complex puzzles and mixing the puzzle solving process with combat. The game would be some kind of Action/Adventure RPG with gaining experience from kills and unlocking new moves and maybe power-ups based on the amount of blood you drink like in BO2.

    The conclusion would be, I liked the exploring and puzzling in SR2, the powering system in BO2 and the fighting system in Defiance. And Brown_Jenkins, the murals gave at least 50% of the Nosgothic history, lore and vampiric prophecies but most important of all, were leaving space for the player to make their own judgments and think about the possible outcomes, not just serving them on a plate by directly exposing them. Mystery and depth of the story and plot were always a key part of LoK series.
    Given the choice, whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire; or to challenge the fates for another throw - a better throw - against one's destiny... what was a king to do?

  10. #10
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    Wow. Soul Reaver 2 having the best exploration? I can't disagree with you more. The fact that you're so locked on rails in that game is probably the main reason I put that game at the the bottom in the series. Soul Reaver though, now THAT had some great exploration, and SR2's non-exploration was only made even more painful after playing SR.
    Now the puzzles in SR2 were great. Those were some of the best I've seen in a game, so I totally agree with you on that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    Wow. Soul Reaver 2 having the best exploration? I can't disagree with you more. The fact that you're so locked on rails in that game is probably the main reason I put that game at the the bottom in the series. Soul Reaver though, now THAT had some great exploration, and SR2's non-exploration was only made even more painful after playing SR.
    Now the puzzles in SR2 were great. Those were some of the best I've seen in a game, so I totally agree with you on that.
    I still find Blood Omen the one best in exploration and SR2, BO2 & Defiance the best in gameplay...

  12. #12
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    SR1 was the best gameplay design for me. I love the environment kills and the bosses which weren't hack and slash until they die. Melchiah emerging from the shadows is among my favourite moments in the series.

    SR2 was good, but there wasn'tanything extra to find, it was more about the story than gameplay. Not saying that I didn't enjoy it (design of demons was brilliant) but it wasn't really a game as such. I died once in the entire playthrough. There were some brilliant set pieces, yes, and I love the final battles with the Generals. But it's less a game than a book or film with occasional puzzles and battles.

    BO2 was decent, but I felt the combat system was too block oriented. Early on, it's difficult, but later, using Immolate and TK was like an invincibility cheat code.
    I'd be apathetic if I weren't so lethargic-Peter Griffin

  13. #13
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    I love BO1 first, SR2 and Defiance second, and I do believe that SR2 is more like a playable theater piece than a game in some aspects, yet it's still fun as hell

    BO2 has probably the third best gameplay to it, and is fun in its own right. I probably like SR1 the least, but still I think it's a great game and certainly innovative for its time.

    What are we debating here again?

  14. #14
    Personally I think SR1 had a much greater feeling of 'freedom' to it than the other games.
    I think this perception of freedom was mainly due to the free exploration and different combat system.
    The exploration factor has been discussed redundantly, but not many people mention the combat system as an advantage of SR1. The Soul Reaver (blade) became an integral part of the games and therefore replaced any other weapons, but I still found the ability to use almost anything as a weapon a welcome addition to combat in SR1 and it especially made me feel I could do 'anything' in that game, e.g., kill vampires by my surroundings, weapons, claws, feet; the possibilities seemed endless! This made a great addition to my perception of freedom. I agree that the 'DMC combat style' also made fighting very cool, but I still miss the use of weapons very much.

    I also much preferred the way your abilities increased after the boss fights, I remember imagining myself how cool it would be to have the 'skills' of a certain boss and therefore wanting to destroy him even more (to attain my cool upgrade ). While the other games also kind of had these upgrades in the forms of reaver upgrades they were nowhere near as cool as the ability upgrades and the way to gain these upgrades was, like many other posters confirmed, mostly very repetitive instead of the unique boss fights in SR1.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_anoniem View Post
    Personally I think SR1 had a much greater feeling of 'freedom' to it than the other games.
    I think this perception of freedom was mainly due to the free exploration and different combat system.
    The exploration factor has been discussed redundantly, but not many people mention the combat system as an advantage of SR1. The Soul Reaver (blade) became an integral part of the games and therefore replaced any other weapons, but I still found the ability to use almost anything as a weapon a welcome addition to combat in SR1 and it especially made me feel I could do 'anything' in that game, e.g., kill vampires by my surroundings, weapons, claws, feet; the possibilities seemed endless! This made a great addition to my perception of freedom. I agree that the 'DMC combat style' also made fighting very cool, but I still miss the use of weapons very much.

    I also much preferred the way your abilities increased after the boss fights, I remember imagining myself how cool it would be to have the 'skills' of a certain boss and therefore wanting to destroy him even more (to attain my cool upgrade ). While the other games also kind of had these upgrades in the forms of reaver upgrades they were nowhere near as cool as the ability upgrades and the way to gain these upgrades was, like many other posters confirmed, mostly very repetitive instead of the unique boss fights in SR1.
    Agreed +1.000.000
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Yautjatraker/Albatraous View Post
    Please don't feed the troll. If we leave it alone it will go away.
    Nonsense. He makes an excellent point. I remember Blood Omen and Soul Reaver as dark, gothic Legend of Zelda equivalents with a solid foundation of a story. The story got better, kind of, in the later games. The gameplay was pretty weak though, and extremely linear. Defiance helped to fix that, a little, and they even brought back the BO1 style talking menus, sort of, but all in all the first two installments were the greatest mostly because they were intended to be epic stand alone games.
    I was once a vampire prophet like you... then I took an arrow to the knee.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Irmok the Mad View Post
    Nonsense. He makes an excellent point. I remember Blood Omen and Soul Reaver as dark, gothic Legend of Zelda equivalents with a solid foundation of a story. The story got better, kind of, in the later games. The gameplay was pretty weak though, and extremely linear. Defiance helped to fix that, a little, and they even brought back the BO1 style talking menus, sort of, but all in all the first two installments were the greatest mostly because they were intended to be epic stand alone games.
    A thread called "Love everything but the games" when this is a game forum strikes me as trolling, what does he like the game boxes?

    True in BO1 and SR1 there were more powers, but the combat was alot more simple (BO1 you just hit attack until they died, SR1 you hit attack until they are weak, then you impale them).

    At least in defiance you got some different moves to do. Besides, no one is making him play the later games, so why doesn't he just stick to the ones he likes rather than ranting on the internet.

    Trolling should not be encouraged.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_anoniem View Post
    Personally I think SR1 had a much greater feeling of 'freedom' to it than the other games.
    I think this perception of freedom was mainly due to the free exploration and different combat system.
    The exploration factor has been discussed redundantly, but not many people mention the combat system as an advantage of SR1. The Soul Reaver (blade) became an integral part of the games and therefore replaced any other weapons, but I still found the ability to use almost anything as a weapon a welcome addition to combat in SR1 and it especially made me feel I could do 'anything' in that game, e.g., kill vampires by my surroundings, weapons, claws, feet; the possibilities seemed endless! This made a great addition to my perception of freedom. I agree that the 'DMC combat style' also made fighting very cool, but I still miss the use of weapons very much.

    I also much preferred the way your abilities increased after the boss fights, I remember imagining myself how cool it would be to have the 'skills' of a certain boss and therefore wanting to destroy him even more (to attain my cool upgrade ). While the other games also kind of had these upgrades in the forms of reaver upgrades they were nowhere near as cool as the ability upgrades and the way to gain these upgrades was, like many other posters confirmed, mostly very repetitive instead of the unique boss fights in SR1.
    I completely agree. I remember when Soul Reaver 2 was announced and what the new enemies would be like and I thought it sounded so cool. For example, I remember reading about enemies that could have their head chopped off and yet still come for you because that wasn't their weak point, and there was also a type of enemy mentioned that could take being impaled through the heart and still come for you. I thought that sounded so cool and was looking forward to it, but then in the actual game, you just beat all the enemies to death. It didn't have any of the cool strategy of the last game in the fights. I was really disappointed in that.

  19. #19
    I didn't mean for this to be a great debate or anything particular deep. Just posting an opinion you know like a weekly magazine user-input section and see if anyone agree, disagree or I had anything wrong or missed anything in both the game or the universe. I would've loved to be wrong in this as I really love Nosgoth, and well everything except the game...

    Btw, really ignoring trolls is a win-win situation. If some people find the topic interesting they can keep posting and if it's really a troll you're not pushing the thread up. Posting a that a OP is trolling is actually spamming (just pushing a thread up without adding anything). Spamming + Trolling is like Vampires and Hylden, one drink your blood and the other uses your soul for fuel, one isn't better than the other

  20. #20
    I think the reason BO2 sucked storywise is the same reason they won't make another game. Amy Hennig never worked on BO2. She returned to the series one last time for Defiance I believe, before leaving to Naughty Dog and going to write Uncharted: Drake's Fortune.

  21. #21
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    Blood Omen 1 had her in a supporting fashion at Silicon Knights, but was written by Dennis Dyack. Amy Hennig, while fantastic to the series, isn't the series. She did approve of the script before the other team at BO2 went to work on the game, so...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Jenkins View Post
    I didn't mean for this to be a great debate or anything particular deep. Just posting an opinion you know like a weekly magazine user-input section and see if anyone agree, disagree or I had anything wrong or missed anything in both the game or the universe. I would've loved to be wrong in this as I really love Nosgoth, and well everything except the game...

    Btw, really ignoring trolls is a win-win situation. If some people find the topic interesting they can keep posting and if it's really a troll you're not pushing the thread up. Posting a that a OP is trolling is actually spamming (just pushing a thread up without adding anything). Spamming + Trolling is like Vampires and Hylden, one drink your blood and the other uses your soul for fuel, one isn't better than the other
    Or the fact that many here seem to be abusing the term 'troll' to begin with. (Not you of course). It's like just because somebody doesn't agree with something, or they don't like how somebody rebutted them with a productive on topic post they go out throwing around the term troll like the word terrorist or witch or heretic. It's a little bit bogus.
    I was once a vampire prophet like you... then I took an arrow to the knee.

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