Thread: Meaning of secret message? *spoilers?*

Meaning of secret message? *spoilers?*

  1. #26

    @Ryutim: Famitsu made an interview with Nomura about 1.5 ReMix. They asked about a HD version for KH II and Nomura replied something along the lines "It would be weird if there wasn't (laughs)" so, we kinda of can take 2.5 for granted. Sure, localisation still a burning question.

  2. #27

    Thanks for the info, now I just hope they make the FM of KH2, rather than the regular english version, and like you said, they'll need to localize it, or else the whole thing will have been for nothing.

  3. #28

    I agree with most that's being said, but along the lines that the game might not sell as much, personally I don't think it would sell near enough to be woth the effort. Maybe about half of the NA KH fans would get it, but I don't know how many would have the money on them when they might be more thinking to be ready for the 3rd, and with non-fans, the KH series is already reaching it's peak. I know plenty of people who have at least heard of KH, but unless they like the style of gameplay they never thought twice about it because they had other games they wanted to get to. I know there are probably a big chunk of people who would buy it, but for me 800,000 is overselling it by a lot, it's just not worth it in a buisness point of veiw, to many risks of lossing money instead of gain.

  4. #29

    Originally Posted by keybladelegend


    I agree with most that's being said, but along the lines that the game might not sell as much, personally I don't think it would sell near enough to be woth the effort. Maybe about half of the NA KH fans would get it, but I don't know how many would have the money on them when they might be more thinking to be ready for the 3rd, and with non-fans, the KH series is already reaching it's peak. I know plenty of people who have at least heard of KH, but unless they like the style of gameplay they never thought twice about it because they had other games they wanted to get to. I know there are probably a big chunk of people who would buy it, but for me 800,000 is overselling it by a lot, it's just not worth it in a buisness point of veiw, to many risks of lossing money instead of gain.






    There's one thing in common between Pokemon and Mario (2d Mario, in this specific case). They don't change the formula that much, from one interation to another, but still sell tons of games. Why? Because while children age and don't wanna play that stuff anymore, there's a lot of new children to play that game, and it will be new to them, so, why change that much in the game? Why am I saying that? Because the last big console game of the series was released in 2005 (Re:CoM did kinda of poorly). It has been 7 years now. There is a whole new generation of kids that never played Kingdom Hearts out there. When they see Disney characters in a full action game (it will look like that for them) they will go crazy. Belive it or not, Disney is a big selling point for the series. Portable aren't as popular as they were before, because of smartphones, but home consoles still hold their ground in NA. There will be kids to buy this game. I was 14 when first played it, but I saw tons of people on youtube talking about how the game was important for their childhood. This will happen once again. But, for this to happen, SE has to release for the consoles that children have. I'm not sure, but probably, in NA, it would be 360. Maybe, depending on release date, WiiU would be another smart choice.

    As for the fans of the series. First, let's make it clear, we have "fans" and we have fans. "Fans" are the people that played KH I and KH II on their PS2 and, every time SE post something about a new KH game (a saw it during all the DDD campain) on facebook, they go around whining: "where's KH 3?", "release it for Vita", "portable aren't real consoles" etc etc. We can take for granted that those "fans" didn't buy DDD. But the game sold about 300k on the first week. So we can assume that there is at least 200k fans that have been buying every KH games for consoles that they had (people skiped BbS because they didn't have a psp, etc). I also think it's safe to assume that those people will buy a FM release, be it for KH I or II, if it is released for the gaming console that they own. We could account 100k or 200k from kids and newcomers at full price. Make it more 50k or 100k from the "fans" that will finally be able to play KH on a real console, many of them didn't played Re:CoM, because it was a late release for the PS2 (many had already changed to X360/PS3). Also, they will be able to see Days.

    Anyways, we're talking about, in the worst case scenario, 350k in the first couple of months, at full price. That's less than DDD did in his first two months, and the 3DS is the console with the smallest installed based where KH series made an appearance. Even if they release it just for PS3 in NA, were talking about an installed base twice as bigger as the 3DS one. And I think everyone agree that 1.5 will cost less than DDD. It's just a remaster, with a couple more of VO but there aren't any new tracks or enemies to create, for example.


    In the end, everything will go down to which plataforms they will release it in NA, if they will charge full price (U$ 60), when they will release it and how they will advertise. But I don't think they need to sell way more than 200k to pay localization costs for NA and this number is granted to sell in the first week, as long as they release the FM version of KH. Trophies may help a little to increase the sales number. And they can make easy money, from the release day, if they add a new secret movie hinting KH 3 at the end of the game.





    P.S.: It isn't sure if they will attain 800k or 1kk in the first year. There's a chance that this will or will not happen. But we can take for granted that it sell at least 500k. Re:Coded is the only game that didn't make this far, but it still sold 470k.

  5. #30

    If they include a new secret movie, then there's no doubt that I'll buy it. Even if I wasn't gonna buy it already, I'd buy it solely because of that, and I think that there's a fair number of KH fans (I don't know whether there's quotation marks around the term or not) who would do the same.

  6. #31
    Sorry Ryu, but Nomura said no secret movie in 1.5. I think Vitor posted a link to the article here in the GD.

  7. #32

    That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.

  8. #33
    Originally Posted by Ryutim
    That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.
    Actually, I highly doubt they would ever have a new secret ending sense it's the same game as before, also, they would be doing a injustice to their fans if they came out with this, they already said KH3 is the next one.

  9. #34

    Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that

  10. #35

    Originally Posted by Ryutim


    That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.






    I don't think anyone belives that. Actually, 2.X in 2014 is a no brainer. But which games will it have? I saw some interesting theories on gaf:

    <ul>[*]chronologically 2.5 would mean: KH 2 FM+, Re:Coded and DDD[*]KH 2 FM+ and Re:Coded togheter would be something like 2.1[*]obviously, BbS FM is KH0[/list]

    So, it's possible that the next collection won't be 2.5, instead, it could be 2.1 + 0 or 2.5 + 0. I think everyone here agrees that Re:Coded will be a movie. Now, whether DDD will be a movie or playable or not appear at all remains a mystery. Some people trully believe that Re:Coded has no importance at all and they would drop it, but I don't agree. DDD Spoilers: The scene at Disney Castle, with Pete and Maleficent, makes me belive that they will use the datascape in KH 3 for some kinda of evil plan. If the whole point is to join every game on a single plataform, to make it easier to new players, then I think all four remaning games will be in the next collection(s??) one way or another.




  11. #36
    Originally Posted by neotsuna
    Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that
    On the opening, I agree with most of what your saying except the Xion or Roxas would come back, it's more of a reprisentation that they are important, because in truth, they are both within Sora's heart. Also Xion can't come back because in essence she never existed and so no one remembers her (she's also a part of Roxas whose a part of Sora) and Roxas can't come back because he's part Sora (and POSSIBLE SPOLIER part of Ventus) and if they brought him back they might as well have an Axel for Lea and Xigbar for Braig, ect.

  12. #37

    Originally Posted by Vitor


    Originally Posted by Ryutim


    That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.






    I don't think anyone belives that. Actually, 2.X in 2014 is a no brainer. But which games will it have? I saw some interesting theories on gaf:

    <ul>[*]chronologically 2.5 would mean: KH 2 FM+, Re:Coded and DDD[*]KH 2 FM+ and Re:Coded togheter would be something like 2.1[*]obviously, BbS FM is KH0[/list]

    So, it's possible that the next collection won't be 2.5, instead, it could be 2.1 + 0 or 2.5 + 0. I think everyone here agrees that Re:Coded will be a movie. Now, whether DDD will be a movie or playable or not appear at all remains a mystery. Some people trully believe that Re:Coded has no importance at all and they would drop it, but I don't agree. DDD Spoilers: The scene at Disney Castle, with Pete and Maleficent, makes me belive that they will use the datascape in KH 3 for some kinda of evil plan. If the whole point is to join every game on a single plataform, to make it easier to new players, then I think all four remaning games will be in the next collection(s??) one way or another.





    *Spoilers*


    Re:coded also had an interesting point regarding the nature of heartless, although I'm not entirely sure how to analyse it, but it showed that Sora's heartless was able to survive by hiding inside the journal, which seems to show that heartless are made up of the darkness inside the heart, but they don't require a heart to exist, and that a heart can take form without a body and without being a heartless (that being proved by having Sora, Roxas, and Sora's heartless in existence all at once. I know that this is probably common knowledge to most KH fans, but the Re:coded was the first indication of it that I saw, and that's why I'm mentioning it.). Anyway, I think that DDD is too recent a game to be included, even considering that the KH 2.5 remix (or whatever you call it) won't come out for another couple years or so, but I think that BBS FM would be a nice addition to the remix.

  13. #38

    Originally Posted by keybladelegend
    Originally Posted by Ryutim


    That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.



    Actually, I highly doubt they would ever have a new secret ending sense it's the same game as before, also, they would be doing a injustice to their fans if they came out with this, they already said KH3 is the next one.


    Even so, I think it's an injustice to KH fans (everywhere but in japan) that we don't have the FMs, so they should still release these remixes in america, even if they decide to release KH3 beforehand, and if, by some chance, they release the second remix first, then I don't see why they wouldn't have an additional secret movie in order to amp up our expectations for KH3.

  14. #39
    Good luck

  15. #40

    Originally Posted by keybladelegend
    Originally Posted by neotsuna


    Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that



    On the opening, I agree with most of what your saying except the Xion or Roxas would come back, it's more of a reprisentation that they are important, because in truth, they are both within Sora's heart. Also Xion can't come back because in essence she never existed and so no one remembers her (she's also a part of Roxas whose a part of Sora) and Roxas can't come back because he's part Sora (and POSSIBLE SPOLIER part of Ventus) and if they brought him back they might as well have an Axel for Lea and Xigbar for Braig, ect.



    DDD SPOILERS:


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=8m...


    I won't quote the whole dialogue, but this part is the most important part:


    Ansem the Wise: "- Perhaps... he[Sora] has the power to bring back the hearts (Ventus, Terra) and existances (Roxas, Naminé, Xion) of those connected to him - to recreate people we thought were lost to us forever. Our most precious treasures - even an empty puppet (Xion again) - the trees of the forest, and the petals on the wind - there are hearts around us everywhere we look." The names in parenthesis are just my personal insight to whom those mentions apply. He makes more remarks "Sora has a heart like that - uncorrupeted, willing to see the good before the bad. When he sees a heart in something, it then becomes real. When a connection seems broken, he may have the power to mend it. He has touched countless hearts, he has accepted them and he has saved them. And some of those hearts have never left him - whether they fell into darkness (Roxas or Xion) or were trapped there (Roxas or Xion) - whether they sleep in the darkness of Sora's heart (Ventus at the end of BbS), or were welcomed into its warmth (when he saved Ventus in the beggining of BbS) - they can be saved. All Sora needs to do is be himself and follow wherever it is that his heart takes him (That's exactly what Sora does at the end of DDD). It is the best and the only way. The rest is in there (data that Riku retrieved)"


    Another remarks:

    <ul>[*]Ansem and Xemnas both confirmed that is possible to nobodies to grown their own heart (Ansem talk implies that this is true to anything, puppets included).[*]Ansem stated three times that he wants to attone for his crimes: KH II (before the explosion), BbS (secret ending, talking with Aqua) and DDD (talking with Riku). For that he hidden data inside Sora and as seen before in the video, that's the key to save everyone.[*]In KHI Sora and Roxas existed at the same time. Sora's new body was created by Kairi's light and Sora's will of doing no harm to others (Ansem says that on the video I posted).[*]Sure, no one remembers/know about Xion, except Sora and Riku. Sora saw her in his dream (maybe he doesn't remember her) but Riku saw her inside Sora, togheter with Roxas and Ventus while diving in Sora's heart (if this isn't an implication that the hearts of the three of them are inside Sora, I really don't know what it is). [*]And the more important thing related to Roxas and Xion: Axel's Promise. We know from Chain of Memories, that even if one forgets a promise, it will stay in one's heart. That's what happened between Sora and Naminé. He forgot the promise, because the links of the chain of memories were broken, but the promises were still there. Sames goes for Axel, he still has the promise he made to Xion inside him. And Naminé probably has the power to see it and/or bring it back. Also, the whole point of Axel's turning into a Keyblade Master is to bring Roxas back, or that's what is implied with him saying his promise over and over during DDD.[/list]
    If those points aren't enough to prove to you that Roxas, Xion and Naminé can exist again, I really can't try to change your mind. Sure, one thing is the possibility being there, the other thing is if this will really happen. The thing is, if it didn't, there is a lot of useless speechs in key scenes of the series and that would be a terrible mistake in therms of narrative and Nomura's writting is to good to make something like this (Chekhov's gun principle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun).

    tl;dr

    1. Roxas and Xion have hearts, they are inside Sora's, togheter with Ventus's. The same can be said about Naminé, but her is inside Kairi.
    2. Bodies can be created from (almost) nothing (Sora's body on KH 1). So they just have to recreate Roxas, Xion and Naminé's bodies since they already have their hearts and memories.

    P.S.: The thing about having a Xigbar for Braig and a Axel for Lea. First, this obviously doesn't apply to Xion's case. But it doesn't apply to Roxas and Naminé case either. Ansem's Secret Reports states very clearly that Roxas and Naminé are special nobodies. The first because Sora gave up his heart of his own free will to save Kairi and the latter because it was created when Kairi's heart left Sora's body instead of her own body. Roxas, for example didn't have any of Sora's memories, while every nobody keeps their memories. Remember, Roxas and Sora coexisted for almost one month. Why would that be impossible to happen again? And, how was Naminé even created if there wasn't a body and soul for that, since Sora's was what made Roxas?

  16. #41

    *Spoilers*


    That's an interesting point, we don't really know how Namine was made. The best explination I can think of is that she was made when Kairi's heart first went into Sora, so her heart was in Sora, and her body became Namine, but what was it that created the body that still looked exactly like Kairi, but was totally inanimate (until Sora came near it with Kairi's heart in him)? Is there some part of a person that is apart from the heart and the body, and also isn't darkness? We know that the heart, the body, and the darkness inside a person can all take form independantly (the person him/herself [like how Sora was able to be himself when Kairi hugged him after he'd become a heartless], a nobody [such as Roxas], and a heartless [like Sora's heartless that hid in the journal, and was finally killed in Re:coded].), but what's left to take form if all of that is already taken (Kairi's heart was in Sora, and Namine already existed, and Kairi, being a princess of heart, had no darkness to take form.)? The only thing I can think of would be light, but if light is powerful enough to take form all on it's own, then why was her light formed body almost completely inanimate, and moreover, why doesn't the light in other people take it's own form when their normal forms are seperated into all their different parts (body, heart, darkness, light)? The only reason I can think of is that the light get's caught up with the heart inside the heartless's darkness, but even so, I think that Sora had a lot more light than he had darkness, so was his light maybe trapped inside his heart, and if so, then why wasn't Kairi's light kept within her own heart, rather than taking form all on it's own, or was there simply too much of it, so some of it had to come off during the seperation? Some of these questions might have already been answered, I haven't read the interviews or the ultimania stuff, so I wouldn't know, but regardless, all insights are welcome.

  17. #42
    Originally Posted by Ryutim
    Originally Posted by keybladelegend
    Originally Posted by Ryutim


    That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.



    Actually, I highly doubt they would ever have a new secret ending sense it's the same game as before, also, they would be doing a injustice to their fans if they came out with this, they already said KH3 is the next one.


    Even so, I think it's an injustice to KH fans (everywhere but in japan) that we don't have the FMs, so they should still release these remixes in america, even if they decide to release KH3 beforehand, and if, by some chance, they release the second remix first, then I don't see why they wouldn't have an additional secret movie in order to amp up our expectations for KH3.
    Well the American market for KH isn't quiet big enough to make a game just for us (just from opinion)

  18. #43
    Originally Posted by Vitor
    Originally Posted by keybladelegend
    Originally Posted by neotsuna


    Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that



    On the opening, I agree with most of what your saying except the Xion or Roxas would come back, it's more of a reprisentation that they are important, because in truth, they are both within Sora's heart. Also Xion can't come back because in essence she never existed and so no one remembers her (she's also a part of Roxas whose a part of Sora) and Roxas can't come back because he's part Sora (and POSSIBLE SPOLIER part of Ventus) and if they brought him back they might as well have an Axel for Lea and Xigbar for Braig, ect.



    DDD SPOILERS:


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=8m...


    I won't quote the whole dialogue, but this part is the most important part:


    Ansem the Wise: "- Perhaps... he[Sora] has the power to bring back the hearts (Ventus, Terra) and existances (Roxas, Naminé, Xion) of those connected to him - to recreate people we thought were lost to us forever. Our most precious treasures - even an empty puppet (Xion again) - the trees of the forest, and the petals on the wind - there are hearts around us everywhere we look." The names in parenthesis are just my personal insight to whom those mentions apply. He makes more remarks "Sora has a heart like that - uncorrupeted, willing to see the good before the bad. When he sees a heart in something, it then becomes real. When a connection seems broken, he may have the power to mend it. He has touched countless hearts, he has accepted them and he has saved them. And some of those hearts have never left him - whether they fell into darkness (Roxas or Xion) or were trapped there (Roxas or Xion) - whether they sleep in the darkness of Sora's heart (Ventus at the end of BbS), or were welcomed into its warmth (when he saved Ventus in the beggining of BbS) - they can be saved. All Sora needs to do is be himself and follow wherever it is that his heart takes him (That's exactly what Sora does at the end of DDD). It is the best and the only way. The rest is in there (data that Riku retrieved)"


    Another remarks:

    <ul>[*]Ansem and Xemnas both confirmed that is possible to nobodies to grown their own heart (Ansem talk implies that this is true to anything, puppets included).[*]Ansem stated three times that he wants to attone for his crimes: KH II (before the explosion), BbS (secret ending, talking with Aqua) and DDD (talking with Riku). For that he hidden data inside Sora and as seen before in the video, that's the key to save everyone.[*]In KHI Sora and Roxas existed at the same time. Sora's new body was created by Kairi's light and Sora's will of doing no harm to others (Ansem says that on the video I posted).[*]Sure, no one remembers/know about Xion, except Sora and Riku. Sora saw her in his dream (maybe he doesn't remember her) but Riku saw her inside Sora, togheter with Roxas and Ventus while diving in Sora's heart (if this isn't an implication that the hearts of the three of them are inside Sora, I really don't know what it is). [*]And the more important thing related to Roxas and Xion: Axel's Promise. We know from Chain of Memories, that even if one forgets a promise, it will stay in one's heart. That's what happened between Sora and Naminé. He forgot the promise, because the links of the chain of memories were broken, but the promises were still there. Sames goes for Axel, he still has the promise he made to Xion inside him. And Naminé probably has the power to see it and/or bring it back. Also, the whole point of Axel's turning into a Keyblade Master is to bring Roxas back, or that's what is implied with him saying his promise over and over during DDD.[/list]
    If those points aren't enough to prove to you that Roxas, Xion and Naminé can exist again, I really can't try to change your mind. Sure, one thing is the possibility being there, the other thing is if this will really happen. The thing is, if it didn't, there is a lot of useless speechs in key scenes of the series and that would be a terrible mistake in therms of narrative and Nomura's writting is to good to make something like this (Chekhov's gun principle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun).

    tl;dr

    1. Roxas and Xion have hearts, they are inside Sora's, togheter with Ventus's. The same can be said about Naminé, but her is inside Kairi.
    2. Bodies can be created from (almost) nothing (Sora's body on KH 1). So they just have to recreate Roxas, Xion and Naminé's bodies since they already have their hearts and memories.

    P.S.: The thing about having a Xigbar for Braig and a Axel for Lea. First, this obviously doesn't apply to Xion's case. But it doesn't apply to Roxas and Naminé case either. Ansem's Secret Reports states very clearly that Roxas and Naminé are special nobodies. The first because Sora gave up his heart of his own free will to save Kairi and the latter because it was created when Kairi's heart left Sora's body instead of her own body. Roxas, for example didn't have any of Sora's memories, while every nobody keeps their memories. Remember, Roxas and Sora coexisted for almost one month. Why would that be impossible to happen again? And, how was Naminé even created if there wasn't a body and soul for that, since Sora's was what made Roxas?
    Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


    Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


    The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


    As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


    Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


    And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.

  19. #44

    Ryutim, let's go by parts, I'm my be off at some point, but I don't think so:


    1 - A person is made of three things: body, soul and heart.


    2 - A heart is made of up to two things: light and darkness.


    We know eight persons with have (had) hearts made of pure light: the seven princesses of hearts and Ventus. When Master Xehanort extraced the darkness in Ventus's heart in order to creat Vanitas, Ventus's heart was broken. He only managed to survive because Sora's heart filled the remaining part (that's why Vanitas looks like Sora), making Ventus the eighth person with a heart of pure light. The only person with a heart made of pure darkness that we know about is Ventus's somebody, Vanitas. But when they clashed at the end of BbS, creating the X-Blase, Ventus was able to make his heart whole again (darkness and light) and now it sleeps inside Sora.


    How normally a heartless is made? We know two ways: 1 - When the person's heart gives in to the darkness (www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uqg4YPHX6k&t=4m...) 2 - When your heart is freed by a keyblade. In KH1 we thouht it was only possible with the Keyblade of Hearts, but Xehanort (that for all that we know is a Keyblade of Light) freed hearts sometimes: here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31Y6paRHE4&t=30s here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kubhibkipA&t=6m50s and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVNTd7fwTUA It appears that any keyblade master can free his own heart. The second time is a really special one, because, for all that we know Xehanort's and Terra's are inside Terranort (possibly Eraqus' heart too). Why did Terranort free that time? My guess is that only he soul was set free and this goes hand in hand with my theory that soul = memories in this universe. That would explain why he doesn't have any memories at all. But this may be totally off.


    Why Sora became a heartless, togheter with Ansem's apprentices, and others hearts, that were free for sometime, Ventus and Xehanort, did not? My theory is that when you heart is free it will start to give in to the darkness in itself (if it is a heart of pure light that doesn't apply), but if you manage to hid it inside of another body, that won't happen.


    Now the Nobody part. If one of strong will becames a heartless, his empty body and soul will become a Nobody. A normal nobody mantain all his memories (this goes in hand with soul = memories). Roxas had Ven's heart but didn't have Sora's memories (again soul), that's why he is almost lifeless at the begining of his life. Kairi created a body for Sora using his light and Sora was whole again (body, heart and soul) while Roxas started to gain memories (soul) having Sora's body and Ven's heart. But he started to grow his own heart, because was exposed to emotions. I think the soul=memories also have a part in this.


    But then, Naminé. She is the most strange case. First, we know when she was created, it was when Kairi's heart left Sora's body. When Kairi lost her heart her body remaind lifeless, instead of becoming a nobody, because she had a heart of pure light. You body only turns into a nobody if you have at least some darkness in your heart. But when Sora freed Kairi's heart, she became whole again and Naminé was created. The thing is, she is not lifeless like Roxas and, because of her power with memories, it looks like she knows the memories of everyone connected to Sora. Then, it's kinda like she doesn't need a soul to have life, like all nobodies, it's more like she has a bit of everyone's soul. Up until this I can kinda of understand. But, what made her body? We know that she appeared at Castle Oblivion, were Ventus's body is. Are those facts related?
    And, a least question is, why didn't Ventus's became a nobody? His body and soul are at castle oblivion. Does your body only turns into a nobody once you heart becames a heartless? That would explain why Old Xehanort also didn't turn into one.

  20. #45

    Originally Posted by keybladelegend


    Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


    Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


    The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


    As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


    Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


    And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.






    Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


    Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


    Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


    But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

    <ul>[*]Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s[*]Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA[/list]

    When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


    "I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


    Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


    About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see your other points, here I can only think you said something totally off. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
    And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=7m6s and yes he doesn't know who she is, but it wasn't a dream so he won't forget. Once again, Ansem new about the replicas project, since he was spying the Organization, but, for all that you know, he doesn't know Pinochio. Why would he make a reference to him? When he said a puppet, he might as well be talking about Riku's replica. And, while noone remembers Xion, those memories are there, the same way when, at the beggining of KH II Kairi and Selphie didn't remember Sora. If they retrieve Naminé, she can bring those memories back.


    About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


    About Nobodies having hearts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67rH_fjRhA&t=15m05s


    Sora says clearly that Axel, Roxas, Naminé and that other girl (after the dream he still remembers her) had hearts. Whether they are true or fake doesn't matter. They serve the purpose of enabling fellings. Ansem said that Sora can see a heart if there is one to see. So R/N/X have hearts and, if they ever come to be again, they will have hearts.
    About Sora's body made of light: You took me too seriously here. I'm not diminishing the power of light or anything, on the contrary, I'm talking about how strong it is. Kairi and Sora, out of only their will and power were able to create a new body to Sora. They didn't have guidance or knowlodge to do so. But now, with Yen Sid's guidance and the results of Ansem research how much can they achieve with this power? The thing is, I think this power is so great that they can bring both T/V/A and R/N/X back.


    About coexistence of body/nobody: Yeah you're right, I didn't express myself correctly on this one. Roxas and Sora coexisted for a whole year. But, in the first 20 days or so, Sora was a whole being (body, heart and soul) and Roxas was starting to be awere of himself. This could have gone forever and they would be two whole beings. The problem was that, because Naminé messed with Sora's memories, they scaped to Roxas and, because of the organization, the memories then moved to Xion. When Roxas defeated Xion, the memories went back to Roxas. For Sora to have his memories again, DiZ made that whole plot of an Digital Twilight Town, for Sora to absorve Roxas, together with the memories. The thin is, during this whole time Naminé and Kairi also coexisted with no implications at all. Actually, I think we still don't know how Naminé was absorved by Kairi, since in KH 2 they are walking together, giving hands, then Naminé isn't there anymore. All of a sudden Naminé "spirits" appears and open a corridor then goes back into Kairi. How de heck they become one whole being again? The only reason I see for this is making the narrative easier, but, still, I hope we will see a better explanation for this one day. Anyways, the thing is, outside the problem of Sora's memories going into Roxas, there was no reason for Sora, Roxas, Kairi and Naminé to not exist in the same world. No reason at all.





    P.S.: Sorry for the typos, I'm in a hurry here.

  21. #46

    You guys are fails. Nomura has allready revailed that he is making kingdom hearts 1.5. This will include KH1 final mix and RE: COM as well as 2-3 hours of optional cut scences in theater mode for 358/2 days. They will all be in remastered HD. They will both have extra stuff such as trophies but no ending movie.

  22. #47
    Originally Posted by Vitor
    Originally Posted by keybladelegend


    Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


    Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


    The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


    As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


    Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


    And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.






    I'M STILL FINISHING THIS. SO WAIT A LITTLE BIT TO REPPLY XD





    Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


    Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


    Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


    But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

    <ul>[*]Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s[*]Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA[/list]

    When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


    "I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


    Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


    About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see you other points, here I can only thing you said that are totally. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
    And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora:


    About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


    About Nobodies having hearts:
    About Sora's body made of light:


    About coexistence of body/nobody:
    The reason Roxas and Ven look almoset identical(exept for the close) is because they share the same body.Ven's heart merged with Sora's heart in its time of need. so when Sora stabed himself in Kingdom Hearts1 he relesed Ven's heart and it whent back to Ven's body.Most people did not know this but Roxas dose have a heart and is his own person.Thats why he can't remember his past because he dose not have his own past.Body of Ven,Ven's heart and part of sora's.When roxas was made, his body was enexistant so i found vens body.Sora's body was being used again by him self.That's why he crys when Xion dies, because oxas has a heart.And nobodys can't use keyblades because keyblade weilders are chosen by the strangth of their heart so Roxas has a hearts,yes(no Xion was not a nobody but a replica that used Sora's memries to get keyblade).

  23. #48
    Originally Posted by Vitor
    Originally Posted by keybladelegend


    Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


    Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


    The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


    As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


    Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


    And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.






    Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


    Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


    Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


    But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

    <ul>[*]Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s[*]Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA[/list]

    When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


    "I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


    Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


    About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see your other points, here I can only think you said something totally off. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
    And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=7m6s and yes he doesn't know who she is, but it wasn't a dream so he won't forget. Once again, Ansem new about the replicas project, since he was spying the Organization, but, for all that you know, he doesn't know Pinochio. Why would he make a reference to him? When he said a puppet, he might as well be talking about Riku's replica. And, while noone remembers Xion, those memories are there, the same way when, at the beggining of KH II Kairi and Selphie didn't remember Sora. If they retrieve Naminé, she can bring those memories back.


    About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


    About Nobodies having hearts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67rH_fjRhA&t=15m05s


    Sora says clearly that Axel, Roxas, Naminé and that other girl (after the dream he still remembers her) had hearts. Whether they are true or fake doesn't matter. They serve the purpose of enabling fellings. Ansem said that Sora can see a heart if there is one to see. So R/N/X have hearts and, if they ever come to be again, they will have hearts.
    About Sora's body made of light: You took me too seriously here. I'm not diminishing the power of light or anything, on the contrary, I'm talking about how strong it is. Kairi and Sora, out of only their will and power were able to create a new body to Sora. They didn't have guidance or knowlodge to do so. But now, with Yen Sid's guidance and the results of Ansem research how much can they achieve with this power? The thing is, I think this power is so great that they can bring both T/V/A and R/N/X back.


    About coexistence of body/nobody: Yeah you're right, I didn't express myself correctly on this one. Roxas and Sora coexisted for a whole year. But, in the first 20 days or so, Sora was a whole being (body, heart and soul) and Roxas was starting to be awere of himself. This could have gone forever and they would be two whole beings. The problem was that, because Naminé messed with Sora's memories, they scaped to Roxas and, because of the organization, the memories then moved to Xion. When Roxas defeated Xion, the memories went back to Roxas. For Sora to have his memories again, DiZ made that whole plot of an Digital Twilight Town, for Sora to absorve Roxas, together with the memories. The thin is, during this whole time Naminé and Kairi also coexisted with no implications at all. Actually, I think we still don't know how Naminé was absorved by Kairi, since in KH 2 they are walking together, giving hands, then Naminé isn't there anymore. All of a sudden Naminé "spirits" appears and open a corridor then goes back into Kairi. How de heck they become one whole being again? The only reason I see for this is making the narrative easier, but, still, I hope we will see a better explanation for this one day. Anyways, the thing is, outside the problem of Sora's memories going into Roxas, there was no reason for Sora, Roxas, Kairi and Naminé to not exist in the same world. No reason at all.





    P.S.: Sorry for the typos, I'm in a hurry here.
    I can see you have some good points and I guess with some things I'm having to same problem about expressing what I'm trying to say, but at least we are getting our ideas out there, maybe we can figure out what will happen next in the story XD

  24. #49
    Originally Posted by DOOMMonkey224
    You guys are fails. Nomura has allready revailed that he is making kingdom hearts 1.5. This will include KH1 final mix and RE: COM as well as 2-3 hours of optional cut scences in theater mode for 358/2 days. They will all be in remastered HD. They will both have extra stuff such as trophies but no ending movie.
    I'm not entirely doubting that, just saying it will only be good on the market in America (I just highly doubt that in Japan they will buy what they already have), but I don't think it will be coming out any time soon, they already confurmed the next release is KH3, so if your waiting for the HD collection, you will have to wait awhile.

  25. #50
    Originally Posted by DOOMMonkey224
    Originally Posted by Vitor
    Originally Posted by keybladelegend


    Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


    Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


    The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


    As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


    Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


    And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.






    I'M STILL FINISHING THIS. SO WAIT A LITTLE BIT TO REPPLY XD





    Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


    Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


    Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


    But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

    <ul>[*]Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s[*]Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA[/list]

    When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


    "I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


    Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


    About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see you other points, here I can only thing you said that are totally. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
    And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora:


    About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


    About Nobodies having hearts:
    About Sora's body made of light:


    About coexistence of body/nobody:
    The reason Roxas and Ven look almoset identical(exept for the close) is because they share the same body.Ven's heart merged with Sora's heart in its time of need. so when Sora stabed himself in Kingdom Hearts1 he relesed Ven's heart and it whent back to Ven's body.Most people did not know this but Roxas dose have a heart and is his own person.Thats why he can't remember his past because he dose not have his own past.Body of Ven,Ven's heart and part of sora's.When roxas was made, his body was enexistant so i found vens body.Sora's body was being used again by him self.That's why he crys when Xion dies, because oxas has a heart.And nobodys can't use keyblades because keyblade weilders are chosen by the strangth of their heart so Roxas has a hearts,yes(no Xion was not a nobody but a replica that used Sora's memries to get keyblade).
    Please don't take this rudly, but we already addressed most of this, and also, 1) Roxas has a keyblade because he came from a keyblade weilder, just like how the rest of the nobodies attained all of their weapons, and 2) The way you are talking makes it seem that you think Ven is already awake, but that would defeat the whole perpose of DDD.

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