Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Why Hillsborough Again?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468

    Question Why Hillsborough Again?

    I've been catching some news reports regarding the Hillsborough disaster. My question is, 20 or so years on, why are they raking all this up again?

    Sure, it was a tragic incident when those football fans were crushed here in the UK but I don't see the need to drag it up again and if I were a relative of a victim I do not think I would wish to be reminded.

    Do these news reporters think we are all amnesiacs? We don't need to view it again to remember the tragedy of that day. Seems to me that the news people are never happy unless they are doom-mongering.

    Notice how any remote happy and nice success story always get's pinned on as a post-script? We don't all want to be shown those cruel images YET again.

    It was terrible. Why drag it up all over again two decades later with all the comments from footballers and relatives? It's time we respectfully moved on, seriously.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    2,400
    I think it's because it's 20 years - which is a significant milestone when using a decimal numeral system.

    I also think a lot of people are still angry that an official investigation was seemingly ducked and no one or no authority has been officially held at fault. Many still see this as a lack of justice which doesn't help the healing process I suppose.

    A truly tragic affair.

  3. #3

    Smile

    Is anyone else wathcing the memorial service on News24?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    2,400
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyhorse128 View Post
    Is anyone else wathcing the memorial service on News24?
    I didn't watch the coverage, but I know a couple of lads here did (couple of Scousers downstairs who work on Champ Man).

    Here's a link to an article that was originally from The Observer. It contains accounts of the Hillsborough disaster from a number of different perspectives (victim, ambulance driver, widow, etc).

    It's an unsettling, tense and sobering read. It's very long but worth putting 15 minutes aside for.






  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468

    Arrow

    Nope, I didn't watch it, CH.

    I have a great respect for those who were effected by what went on, in terms of all involved and also the changes that have come under place since the tragedy but some day soon we'll all find ourselves in a calendar cycle that hasn't one single day spare without a memorial of some kind.

    Must I have a three-minute silence every day because of one continental tragedy or other?

    Somebody was knocked over and killed this week in my village and their death has been overlooked because the local news bulletins only concern themselves about the dragging up of old news - however tragic.

    I am in constant receipt of depressing E-mails about certain tragedies. "We must never forget" and so forth. How can we forget? We are bombarded morning, noon and night with these reminders....

    Life is for the living. We have to place more importance on the postivies of this world. We are all guilty of coming online and waxing lyrical about our various ills but to have these disasters dragged up evey single year - thrown open to debate on various TV stations is inadvisable (She says, throwing the topic open to similar discussion!)

    Sorry but....you get the gist, I hope
    !

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,493
    I was not going to say anything but I do agree,sometimes,there has been so much of late with celebrating anniversaries of so many things. The to broadcast it all Year after Year, is often too much we have to go on.
    There are certain things though which can not be left unsaid. As Keir rightly said "Justice". I watched the service and there is still a lot of passion about it there in Liverpool. My husband has been an ardent fan nearly all his life,which is not the point.

    The Hillsborough memorial service takes place every year at Anfield, the prominence given to it this year on its 20th anniversary can be summed up in one word, justice.
    Why? because although Lord justice Taylor’s report concluded that the Yorkshire police mismanagement of crowd had caused disaster. No one has been held responsible nor has any apology been given, in fact the there is strong evidence of an official cover up. For example senior Yorkshire police officers vetted junior officer’s statements and CCTV footage of the tragedy was “lost” that very night.
    The other grievance is a certain newspaper which printed disgusting lies smearing both the fans and Liverpool city as a whole. Because an apology was never printed it has caused many people to still wrongly believe the fans to blame for the tragedy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,274
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillie View Post
    I was not going to say anything but I do agree,sometimes,there has been so much of late with celebrating anniversaries of so many things. The to broadcast it all Year after Year, is often too much we have to go on.
    There are certain things though which can not be left unsaid. As Keir rightly said "Justice". I watched the service and there is still a lot of passion about it there in Liverpool. My husband has been an ardent fan nearly all his life,which is not the point.

    The Hillsborough memorial service takes place every year at Anfield, the prominence given to it this year on its 20th anniversary can be summed up in one word, justice.
    Why? because although Lord justice Taylor’s report concluded that the Yorkshire police mismanagement of crowd had caused disaster. No one has been held responsible nor has any apology been given, in fact the there is strong evidence of an official cover up. For example senior Yorkshire police officers vetted junior officer’s statements and CCTV footage of the tragedy was “lost” that very night.
    The other grievance is a certain newspaper which printed disgusting lies smearing both the fans and Liverpool city as a whole. Because an apology was never printed it has caused many people to still wrongly believe the fans to blame for the tragedy.

    That's not the whole argument though. Saying the police couldn't control the crowd is one way, saying the crowd was out of control is another. It was a minority of fans that were out of control that meant tickets could't be checked.
    That meant a large number of fans without tickets got in and overcrowded the stand.
    It's all very well boasting the police are at fault, but the actual blame lies with many different people, but in this blame culture those responsible are only going to be those that are likely to be able to pay compensation.

    People should take responsibility for their own actions which means the fans causing the disturbance and those who got into the stand without a ticket must take equal responsibility with the police who wern't prepared.

    It was though a tragedy and one that should be remembered, but the anger insighted by the ceremony is out of place and degrades the meaning of remembering the 96 who died that day.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post

    Must I have a three-minute silence every day because of one continental tragedy or other?

    Somebody was knocked over and killed this week in my village and their death has been overlooked because the local news bulletins only concern themselves about the dragging up of old news - however tragic.



    Life is for the living. We have to place more importance on the postivies of this world. We are all guilty of coming online and waxing lyrical about our various ills but to have these disasters dragged up evey single year - thrown open to debate on various TV stations is inadvisable (She says, throwing the topic open to similar discussion!)

    Sorry but....you get the gist, I hope
    !
    Why is Auschwitz remembered? 9/11? London or Omagh? Granted, those are on a bigger scale, but the point is to make sure it doesn't happen again. Hillsborough was tragic because it was easily preventable, so it's a reminder of the consequences of negligence. People can commemorate it however they like. The media report on what people want to hear. It's a cheap way of selling papers, yes, but things like this are worth remembering. Not completely to the scale it's taken, that's true, but some commemoration? Why not?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468

    Smile

    You can't really couple up Auschwitz and the ensuing genocide with something like the Hillsborough accident, with respect.

    But this is a gaming forum, not a political minefield so the least said on the forementioned the better.

    I think that people should be allowed to grieve and remember the Hillsborough disaster, of course I do. But please, allow people to do so privately.

    If there are still issues over technicalities about how football stadiums are managed then fine but instead, we don't get news, we simply get an outpouring of re-hashed second-hand accounts and emotion, not news per se.

    I will once again say that it was TRAGIC and I have never really apportioned blame to any one quarter, I think what Andy said was pretty fair in that it was a combination of factors that led to this terrible episode. We should not forget - but what I am saying is that nobody with a heart would ever forget anyway. We don't wish to have it thrust in our breakfast toast, however

    Anyway, on to brighter topics eh? Maybe this thread should be respectfully closed before people start getting into trouble, myself included..

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    2,400
    I think I get your point Lo.

    (What I say now is completely unconnected to Hillsborough as personally I think it's different but... ) I actually resent the way the popular media (ITV news, Sky, Daily Mail, Express, the red tops, etc) latch onto certain news and then turn it into an emotive story, which whips a large portion of the population into emotional hysteria.

    That stops becoming news and starts becoming an emotional soap opera.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Keir View Post
    I think I get your point Lo.

    (What I say now is completely unconnected to Hillsborough as personally I think it's different but... ) I actually resent the way the popular media (ITV news, Sky, Daily Mail, Express, the red tops, etc) latch onto certain news and then turn it into an emotive story, which whips a large portion of the population into emotional hysteria.

    That stops becoming news and starts becoming an emotional soap opera.
    This is what I feel, sadly, Keir.

    I know Goran would not like us to get too carried away with politics so I will just say I agree with your sentiment.

    The Daily Express is not too bad - I love the Crusader crossword hehe! My late father and I would like nothing more than to challenge and collaborate on said crossword to prove to ourselves how intellectual we were

    I say "were" because not only is my father in the permanent land of nod but I am going to be 41 tomorrow. *Checks for signs of premature mental aging and grey hairs*

    I hear the Crusader crossword can keep me dementia-free! I'll be suing them if I can't get "number 3 across" in the ten minutes I could have spent pouring on some Recital hair colour (because I'm worth it)...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,493
    I did or do not want to get into a Political debate either.
    Hilsborough service is every Year with no coverage at all. I do not think in this case it was meant as such apart from wanting justice.
    I do agree some of the media coverage by certain newspapers over some things are very distasteful and disrespect,which turns into a somewhat frenzy and mass hysteria,like other recent events.

    We have the Telegraph as that is all my hubby will read, I find it rather heavy reading, at times. He only believes what they say.
    As to the crossword I find the big one too hard, I do tackle the smaller one though, perhaps It will help stop a few "Senior moments"
    Some think I am daft I get mixed up with what I say at times. I am not at stupid, or foolish as I seem.
    Happy birthday, 41 oh I have a few years on that, In May I will be whatever.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468
    Thanks, Gillie!

    I am going to spend the day with my Mum and visit a nearby Bee museum (talking of creepy crawlies!)

    They sell real honey ice-cream too but being almost 41 I need to be wary of the calories Us crumblies can't afford to snack on anything more sustainable than a wafer afterall, hehe!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    3,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post
    Us crumblies can't afford to snack on anything more sustainable than a wafer afterall, hehe!
    Tell me about it. I only have to smell a curry to put on five pounds these days.

    Oh, happy birthday by the way.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,493
    Quote Originally Posted by staticon View Post
    Tell me about it. I only have to smell a curry to put on five pounds these days.

    Oh, happy birthday by the way.
    So do I It is injustice, love Indian food from a restaurant as well.
    Chips for me Luckily I can not eat chips from the shop,so try to not eat many

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post
    [B][I][COLOR="Navy"]But this is a gaming forum, not a political minefield so the least said on the forementioned the better.
    I'm sorry Lo, but if you believe that then why start this thread in the first place?

    The media are giving it more attention than previous years because, as Keir suggested, 20 is recognizable year in our numerical system. It wasn't covered extensively - if at all - last year, or the year before that.

    Now I'm not the biggest football fan - even though I myself am from Liverpool - but that still doesn't change the fact that what happened their was awful and should never have happened. Every time I hear something about Hilsborough, I read different opinions and conflicting things. For example, this is the first time I've heard that fans where sneaking in to the stadium. I'm not saying that's wrong, it's just another knot in the tangled thread.

    Whilst I do agree with Keir and yourself that the media make big "doom and gloom" stories, it's the media. What do you expect? If you don't like certain things, do as I do and press the big "OFF" button.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Great White North
    Posts
    2,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    I'm sorry Lo, but if you believe that then why start this thread in the first place?
    Omega, you are, of course, talking about this thread about Hillsborough. I don't think Lo was referring specifically to Hillsborough with her comment. Based on the context (unless I am misreading something), I believe she was referring to something that another member brought up in conversation. I don't think the intended topic was political in nature. Political threads don't last long on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post
    You can't really couple up Auschwitz and the ensuing genocide with something like the Hillsborough accident, with respect.

    But this is a gaming forum, not a political minefield so the least said on the forementioned the better.
    I'm not very familiar with the Hillsborough tragedy, but the worst part seems to be the unnecessary loss of life. I agree that the media will always highlight tragedies. The topics of Hillsborough and other tragedies will continue to surface in the future. One is not forced to relive them. We have to learn what we can, then move on. I doubt I personally would bring up a past tragedy in conversation, as I don't usually have anything to contribute other than my initial opinion, but some people like more topics of conversation than others.

  18. #18

    Smile

    I was at a Nottingham Forest game today (The other team involved), and all the flags were at half mast etc. It's the 19th now and still all the formalities?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruum Taedor View Post
    Omega, you are, of course, talking about this thread about Hillsborough. I don't think Lo was referring specifically to Hillsborough with her comment. Based on the context (unless I am misreading something), I believe she was referring to something that another member brought up in conversation. I don't think the intended topic was political in nature. Political threads don't last long on this forum.



    I'm not very familiar with the Hillsborough tragedy, but the worst part seems to be the unnecessary loss of life. I agree that the media will always highlight tragedies. The topics of Hillsborough and other tragedies will continue to surface in the future. One is not forced to relive them. We have to learn what we can, then move on. I doubt I personally would bring up a past tragedy in conversation, as I don't usually have anything to contribute other than my initial opinion, but some people like more topics of conversation than others.
    Ruum is correct. Hillsborough is not a "political" event in as far as the other subject is/was. It was an unfortunate tragedy that happened through negligence.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  20. #20
    those poor people
    my auntie sed the were people getting pushe up against the fence and screaming for help off the footie players and they didn't even help them why sould they have any credit for anything all that they care about is them freaking selves

    there was a stampeed in west africa a few weeks
    signature image

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468
    Quote Originally Posted by tombraider1best View Post
    those poor people
    my auntie sed the were people getting pushe up against the fence and screaming for help off the footie players and they didn't even help them why sould they have any credit for anything all that they care about is them freaking selves

    In all honesty, during a football match there is constant noise from the crowds. There's horns, chants, singing, cheering, yelling et cetera...

    Footballers would have been too busy concentrating on the game and if police were spotted flooding to the gate where it happened the players would have assumed it was a riot. They are just too focussed on the game.

    There is no way that screams of help would have been distinguished from the regualr tyrade of noise created at such matches.

    There was nothing the footballers could realistically have done at that moment when a crush began to develop. The crowds were caged in - literally and those at the front had the pressure of what must have felt like two elephants squashing them into the fences...and, eachother. Many died through being crushed whilst standing and those that fell...well I'll leave that to your logical conclusion.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  22. #22
    LO TMI ewww i feel so sorry for the familys and for the people who just couldn't help
    why did the police just let people in ..... wait i guess i am just trying to find someone to blame
    signature image

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,468
    There are ongoing problems with the justice campaign and so forth but the news, as was reported at the time in 1989 can be viewed on this link (Very short bulletin I selected for you as opposed to a myriad of pages of data and public opinion in order for you to get a quick glimpse of the news bulletin as it was at the time).

    From the BBC:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2491195.stm
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post
    In all honesty, during a football match there is constant noise from the crowds. There's horns, chants, singing, cheering, yelling et cetera...

    Footballers would have been too busy concentrating on the game and if police were spotted flooding to the gate where it happened the players would have assumed it was a riot. They are just too focussed on the game.
    It happened at the end of the game, not during. The players would have been inside having showers and whatnot.

    Basically, not enough gates were open to let the fans out at the end of the match and this led to people getting killed.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    2,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    It happened at the end of the game, not during. The players would have been inside having showers and whatnot.

    Basically, not enough gates were open to let the fans out at the end of the match and this led to people getting killed.
    The crush started before the game commenced. The game kicked off and was played for a little while while people were dying. I think Beardsley hit the bar at one stage. Good job he didn't score otherwise the audible crowd reaction would have caused even more of a fatal surge.

    Again, I'd urge everyone to put ten minutes aside and read the first account here of the disaster. I always wondered how people could actually die in a crowd, then I read that. It brings the nightmare alive and is an unsettling piece of writing.
    "......It reminds me of Beethoven..... can you hear it?"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •