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Thread: About the Deceiver...

About the Deceiver...

  1. #1

    About the Deceiver...

    I'm sorry to say this but i'm really disapointed in the deceiver...so let me explain why:

    1.The abilities...how can the zephonims devolve intro spider like creatures from mind manipulators?I mean think about the rest a little:

    Melchia had the skin problem - Devolved into a human-body-made creaturue (makes sense)
    Rahab had the water immuniti - Devolved into a shark like monster (makes sense)
    Dumah had no particular weakneses and was a great fighter - Devolved into the vampire hercule (makes sense...somewhat)
    Turel was a big hulky bat-eared vamp - Devolved into a big hulky bat-eared monster (makes sense)
    Zephon the master mind manipulator - Devolved into a spider like creature? hope u get my point...

    All of their abilities influenced their devolution...and zephon's mind manipulatin thing just doesn't seem right.

    2.The backstab abilliti...what's that he pops out of he's hand?A mini soulreaver?A mini lightsaber?A chakra blade like from naruto universe?Maybe instead of poping out the mini chakra-soul-saber u could make him to just pop out his claws like any vampire from the LoK universe and stab the humans with them.

    3.He's apperences...i agree the zephonim should be creepy and he is...but not in the good way.
    I think when a player plays the vampire classes he want's to feel like an all powerfull vampire hunting the humans,not like some crazed mummy running around and stabbing them (yes i think he looks more like a mummy than a vampire).
    All classes resemble their leaders so how are they resembleing this http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=153q...8#.UvdRB85LNqw ?? (ok maybe that isn't the best image,u can google others but u get the point)
    They look way more devolved than they should...i mean c'mon they almost look like the razielim and that should be imposible considering the lore.

    Well that's what i wanted to say...the abilities don't fit the character (in my opinion) the mini chakra-soul-saber has to go(in my opinion) and theyr apperences have to be more humanized-vampire like rather than mummy like.

    I don't try to be an *** here i'm just saying my hones opinion,sorry if i offended anyone.
    Last edited by LegacyOfKayn; 9th Feb 2014 at 10:12.

  2. #2
    I agree on the mini-soulreaver thingy. I have no idea how that thing fits into anything. Maybe it just needs to be obvious enough so that you see it 0.2 seconds before you are backstabbed, but thats gameplay convenience thing, not lore. And i would hate to see a gameplay convenience thing being forced into the lore.

    For the looks: Slightly elongated limbs and a thin frame makes sense. They get that in SR1, this is kind of in the middle. Feeling kinda weird about the mask though. It does complete the whole mummy look.

    As for the mind manipulation thing: We can just assume that the zephonim in SR1 couldnt do anything like that to Raziel because he was a vampire/unique soul-sucking thing/whatever. His mind was too strong or alien to them. Human minds are weak though.

    I can also go into some weird theory that Zephon developed some kind of a insectoid hive-mind with his brood in time? Nothing based on evidence of course, but at this point, its up for grabs. If any one of the lieutenants could do it, it would be him.

    I would still like to see a dev post on their lore though.

  3. #3
    Yeah I was really wondering what that mini-reaver was too. What is it? How does that fit in the lore? I don't think we've ever seen anything like that in the games except for the Soul Reaver blade and that was Raziels soul, not some energy manipulation.
    Why not have a normal blade or just use his claws like Kain could do in BO2.

  4. #4
    Corey said he misspoke when he called is a spectral weapon and that it's actually meant to be made of eldritch energy.

    If you remember how the Zephonim clan looked in SR1 as opposed to Zephon himself, they still only had two arms and legs, but they were very long and thin. The deceivers have unusually long and thin limbs, just not to the same extent as in SR1. They seem to be evolving in the right direction physically.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 9th Feb 2014 at 21:23.

  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by LegacyOfKayn
    1.The abilities...how can the zephonims devolve intro spider like creatures from mind manipulators?
    This only carries on the Zephonim clan vibe established in Soul Reaver. That was the game which portrayed Zephon as a master manipulator who devolved into a spider, in the first place.

    Daniel Cabuco from the SR1 team himself says, "Zephon isn't necessarily the smartest, or the best fighter, but he is one of the most cunning. Working the politics with expert precision as a spiderweb of lies. Again this eventually led to his dark gifts and mutation direction." Also: "the spiderwebbing in his skin reflects his cunning nature. So making him insidious fits him perfectly."

    I think it is intended to be interpreted more like this:
    Zephon the scheming, insect-like master of entrapment - Devolved into a spider like creature (makes sense)
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  6. #6
    The Deceiver has the same elongated limbs SR1 Zephonim had. And their appearance is actually awesome - I'm getting a Nosferatu vibe from this. Vampires aren't mostly about being strong and beefy. It's about being creepy creature of the night that inspires fear by his very appearance. And really, if I saw that creepy SOB coming at me, I'd run to the Chinese border. The Zephonim are mentioned to willfully control their devolution with alchemy and ritual self-mutilation. The Deceiver looks like a walking nasty lab accident and that's because he is.
    As for his abilities - what exactly would you suggest for spider vamps that didn't devolve to the point of being totally spider, with webs and everything? The claws simply wouldn't work because every vampire has claws, what's the difference one claw makes? Now if they had some kind of body mutation that gave them an organic spike below the shoulder that they use for backstabbing, that would be better. After all, they are said to mutilate and mutate their kind. Yeah, that's actually a great idea. If devs are reading it, consider it a suggestion.

  7. #7
    Quote from the blog that hints at the Deceivers design (posted by Monkeythumbz here):
    The Zephonim in particular, eager to compete in raw power with the elder Clans, attempted to artificially shape and force their metamorphoses through ritual self-torture, alchemical engineering and twisted breeding programs.
    It's very likely that while spying on his brothers, seeing their vampiric prowess found his own evolution lacking. It would make sense that Zephon, the scheming borther, would force his evolution to ready his clan for whatever grand plan he had in mind. If that meant becoming more monster than vampire, I don't think he would have a problem with that.

    As far as the spectral blade (or whatever they end up calling it later), remember that vampires pre-SR1 have access to dark gifts, ancient magic and alchemy that is native to Nosgoth. I don't think that vampires in SR1 aren't capable of magic, it's probably that they have gone uncontested for so long that there is no need to exert themselves with spells at that point in time.

  8. #8
    Tendril that spell looks way too SF...it looks like an lightsaber from star wars or something...it just doesn't fit the nosgoth universe.
    It doesn't matter how mutch lore u put to a spell,if it doesn't fit u get rid of it.
    Lets put an alien ship with laser cannos in the game and say that the humans just discovered under an aincient ruin of their ancestors how that sounds?

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by LegacyOfKayn
    Lets put an alien ship with laser cannos in the game and say that the humans just discovered under an aincient ruin of their ancestors how that sounds?
    Sounds like the final chapter of Blood Omen 2.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    I like the appearance. I love the run he does, it looks really good. But yeah I am unsure about this eldritch energy weapon stuff - sounds a bit strange. However, there's been a lot of curious creatures throughout the games with all sorts of different weapons (blades, tk, arrows, fireballs, poison-spit, magical blasts), as long as they justify it in lore well enough (firstly not being some kind of SR inspiration, secondly, relating in some way to what's come come before), it should be good.

  12. #12
    The deceiver is kinda cool on its own merits, but does not feel like he is really part of clan Zephonim. I'm a little disappointed about the lacking of climbing related evolution in him. He is definitely very Spy inspired from Team Fortress, but is unique enough to carry himself.

    In terms of gameplay adding him makes perfect sense to diversify the roster, he has a unique skill set and style, but lore wise he needs a little back story and context to back him up. The nether wrist blade is definitely somewhat far fetched.

  13. #13
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    I think that this little weapon of theirs is getting too much attention. After all - the game featured living shadows(BO, SR2,LoK: D) able to shapeshift into what-not, ghosts, lycanthropes and one very naughty puppet-master and yet I see noone asking "Why I can't have skin-tearing shurikens on my Tyrant?!". I, for once, find their new look very appealing and their weapon quite glorious. Being one of the very few creatures able to utilize magic in this universe I find their ghosts-blades, or whatever these are, to be at home on these shifty creatures.
    The first, bitter taste of that terrible illusion— hope.

  14. #14
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    With regard to their form, we need to remember that the Zephonim we see is essentially a fledgling that has been forced through these experiments by his clan to, shall we say, go through puberty quicker than he naturally would, so he is gonna be a little disfigured. Don't worry, he'll eventually grow into the changes and out of that back brace that seems to helps him support, what appears to be, an artificially elongated spine. He will eventually become the tall beanpole that we know from Soul Reaver and quicker than he would normally which would have been the point of the experimental procedures.

    As for the powers, I'll admit I'm not a fan of the energy blade just because it doesn't feel all that kosher to the LoK universe and a simple blade or bone spike, maybe brought about by one of these experiments, would easily do the trick. As for the the mental powers, I'll admit they we never clearly seen in Soul Reaver by Zephon or his clan. However, there is nothing to suggest that they didn't have these power so its really another grey area in the lore where some wiggle room exists. Plus mental abilities have been established in the lore of the series since Blood Omen so its actually quite kosher from where I'm sitting.
    Last edited by GenFeelGood; 10th Feb 2014 at 05:53.

  15. #15
    Thinking about it a bit, that eldritch blade would be better already if they just changed the underlying color from bright blue (spectral theme) to red (blood theme). When i see the word "eldritch" i think of something hellish, occult, corrupted. But when i see a bright blue/white spell effect, thats either more on the "divine" or "spectral" direction. Neither fits well with a zephonim.

  16. #16
    http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Eldritch_energy

    It was a blue colour in SR1, although it could be purple at a stretch. Kain's lightning and TK were both that colour too. It's not like it's shown devouring a soul or anything.

    I suppose it could be given a solid core like it's an insect stinger or something if people see it as a problem.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 10th Feb 2014 at 10:36.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  17. #17
    Well in SR1 we see that all the liutenants even as devolved as they were they still kept their abilities (melchia the wall passing thing,rahab the water imuniti etc) and i don't remember zephon even trying to mind control raziel...i mean if he had the abiliti it was worth at least a shot right? How could he know it wouldn't work otherwise?
    But still i get the ideea it's hard to implement spider-like abilities without turning the zephonim into...basically spiderman.
    Raziel did called him a coward...so i gues the human transformation kinda fits...also the clones...eh..let's say the abilities are ok...somewhat.
    But the aperences...c'mon that's just not right.I mean sure i agree they should be skinny,i agree they should be creepy but at the same time they should look...dangerous sience they are vampires.They look more handicapped then dangerous to me (again didn't say it as an insult).I for one would not play this class more than like 2-3 time just because of it's looks.The turelim look cool,so are the reavers,even the razielim look better and they are FAR more devolved...this is the first class i think it's a fail...but still the game it's in development...who knows what the future holds.

  18. #18
    Oh. Okay...

    Still dont know why thats eldritch and not glyph as the quote from EG says. Glyph would make some sense, seeing some relationship to the hylden glyph magic (from Raziels part, but not from the zephonim).

    I never heard the word eldritch in LoK before, but then again, i only played the games. I dont know if any manuals or other sources state anything else about "eldritch".

  19. #19
    Yeah, I think it was in the manual.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  20. #20
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    I like the look of the Zephonim it really creeps me out – I think it’s the walk and the gangly fingers!

    …but…I’m on the fence about the whole Eldritch energy blade…I can see that they are supposed to be ritualistic so it's logical and that its magick and it works – but like others have said it looks a bit of a Soul Reaver rip off…I think I would be a little more happy if it was a – excuse the term –“hidden blade” that was imbued in Eldritch energy…ok that’s still a lame idea. Yeah I don’t know just seems a bit meh – and it's taking a bit away from SR – even though it isn’t the same thing – it’s Eldritch energy and nothing to do with Spectral – I don’t know maybe if it’s look could be changed up a bit to look less SResc - more like a blade looking energy - straight blade…maybe at least change the colour???

  21. #21
    Ok so i see that i'm the only one thinking that theyr looks are off...about the mummy and the handicapped rather than dangerous vamps...ok i'll close the subject here

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by lucinvampire
    I like the look of the Zephonim it really creeps me out – I think it’s the walk and the gangly fingers!

    …but…I’m on the fence about the whole Eldritch energy blade…I can see that they are supposed to be ritualistic so it's logical and that its magick and it works – but like others have said it looks a bit of a Soul Reaver rip off…I think I would be a little more happy if it was a – excuse the term –“hidden blade” that was imbued in Eldritch energy…ok that’s still a lame idea. Yeah I don’t know just seems a bit meh – and it's taking a bit away from SR – even though it isn’t the same thing – it’s Eldritch energy and nothing to do with Spectral – I don’t know maybe if it’s look could be changed up a bit to look less SResc - more like a blade looking energy - straight blade…maybe at least change the colour???
    Wait, did it look wavy (flamberge-like) to you? It at least looked like a straight blade to me.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  23. #23
    Well, if I remember correctly, the Vampire Worshippers in SR could only be seen in Silenced Cathedral. So maybe Zephon and his clan used their mind manipulation powers to control those worshippers? Just a theory...

  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by Lakdav2
    I never heard the word eldritch in LoK before, but then again, i only played the games. I dont know if any manuals or other sources state anything else about "eldritch".
    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/eldritch.php
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    Beat you to it. Albeit, with the wiki page.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

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