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Thread: In my opinion...

In my opinion...

  1. #26
    I've been staying out of this but here's my middle ground opinion:

    I think we could potentially offer a class more suited to new players who aren't good at shooters. A human melee or shotgun class for instance. Making the game accessible to more players is a win for everybody.

    I also agree Vampires are easier to become effective with quickly, especially if you aren't good at shooters.

  2. #27
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    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    I've been staying out of this but here's my middle ground opinion:

    I think we could potentially offer a class more suited to new players who aren't good at shooters. A human melee or shotgun class for instance. Making the game accessible to more players is a win for everybody.

    I also agree Vampires are easier to become effective with quickly, especially if you aren't good at shooters.
    Actually I was hoping for a Shotgun human class, as it would fit the current line up.
    Scout bow = sniper - long range
    Hunter Crossbow = assault rifle/smg - medium to long range
    Alchemist launcher = grenade launcher - short to medium range + slight aoe

    So the next one should have something along the lines a weapon with the mechanics of a shotgun for short to possibly medium range (though just short is fine too imo). The closer you are the more damage you take as you get hit by more "bullets" or such, and the further you are, the wider the spread is, so you take far less damage, if you even get hit.

    I personally don't think having a melee human is a good idea for how you have currently designed the game. It is asymmetrical, therefore if you add a melee human (or a ranged vampire) then you could easily have 4 melee humans vs 4 melee vampires (or 4 ranged vs 4 ranged), which changes the game entirely imo.

  3. #28
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    Yeah, I am against a melee human as well.. A short range gun like shotgun is fine IMO and would keep the asymmetry in place.

  4. #29
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    I am sure you (Psyonix) know what is best for your game, but just to add more on my opinion on this:

    This game is an asymmetrical competitive pvp game. Vampires are melee, humans are ranged.
    Just because new players aren't good at shooters, it doesn't mean you should add classes or game mechanics that take away from the asymmetry of the game as a whole.

    It's still alpha and you've designed an amazing game so far.
    Last edited by Tube_Reaver; 6th Feb 2014 at 19:41.

  5. #30
    I don't view it as folding.. we prototyped a melee human earlier in development but scrapped him because he just wasn't going to make the initial cut.

    As discussed in another thread, a melee human wouldn't stand toe to toe with a vampire on melee damage - he or she would have to be focused on support, damage absorption/prevention, etc. It would be a twist on the formula - an exception to the rule - rather than breaking the fundamental asymmetry of the game.

  6. #31
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    The shotgun human would be in the same situation as the alchemist. In fact the alchemist can already do insane close range damage.

  7. #32
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    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    I don't view it as folding.. we prototyped a melee human earlier in development but scrapped him because he just wasn't going to make the initial cut.

    As discussed in another thread, a melee human wouldn't stand toe to toe with a vampire on melee damage - he or she would have to be focused on support, damage absorption/prevention, etc. It would be a twist on the formula - an exception to the rule - rather than breaking the fundamental asymmetry of the game.
    Apologies, "fold" was a bit too defeatist on my part.

    Of course a melee human who does less damage than a melee vampire, and focuses on support sounds interesting, and I personally love support classes, and I am not one who would stand in the way of variety or additional support classes.

    However the alchemist does support well, while still being ranged.
    Perhaps this is just me, but I have become accustomed to the asymmetrical gameplay, and my mind set is "ok playing human = ranged. Playing vampire = up close and melee"

  8. #33
    Originally Posted by Oroibahazopi
    The shotgun human would be in the same situation as the alchemist. In fact the alchemist can already do insane close range damage.
    Though a shotgun would be hitscan like the crossbow/longbow instead of projectile based.

  9. #34
    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    I don't view it as folding.. we prototyped a melee human earlier in development but scrapped him because he just wasn't going to make the initial cut.

    As discussed in another thread, a melee human wouldn't stand toe to toe with a vampire on melee damage - he or she would have to be focused on support, damage absorption/prevention, etc. It would be a twist on the formula - an exception to the rule - rather than breaking the fundamental asymmetry of the game.
    What do you think about the point I made about spear weapons in another thread? I was trying to say how they're not technically a close range weapon, because you couldn't pull your arm back far enough to stab at an enemy right in front of you with the sharp end and therefore could only do minor damage with the blunt part.

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    I just thought of something about spear type weapons. If the enemy is stood 2 or 3 feet in front of you, then you wouldn't be able to pull your arm back far enough for the sharp end to actually line up with the enemy. Sure, you could hit them with the blunt part, but it definitely wouldn't be effective against vampires.

    Since there is a minimum effective distance, of I'd imagine at least 8 feet, it would technically count as a ranged weapon and therefore not break the rule about ranged vs melee. It could be thrown to achieve further distances.

    Remember in SR1 you would always miss if you tried to impale a vampire who wasn't stunned? The same thing could happen in Nosgoth, just all the time if you are too close.
    Regarding shotguns, aren't they a bit modern for the game's setting? I mean there was one on Moebius "museum" in Blood Omen, but I think a lot of people would still see them as out of place. (Although, Musketeer does sound like a good class name.)
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  10. #35
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    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    Though a shotgun would be hitscan like the crossbow/longbow instead of projectile based.
    Alternate weapons would also be an easy given:
    i.e.
    Rapid fire rate, way lower damage
    Slower fire rate, tighter spread, higher base damage
    Single slug thrower - fires one shot, harder to aim, but does a lot of damage at close range, and a very very small clip.

  11. #36
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    Well if you want to push the alchemist even further into obscurity.... ^^

  12. #37
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    Originally Posted by Oroibahazopi
    Well if you want to push the alchemist even further into obscurity.... ^^
    Alchemist won't be hitscan, and has all her iconic abilities.
    I am just giving examples of different shotguns in other games.

  13. #38
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    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    Regarding shotguns, aren't they a bit modern for the game's setting? I mean there was one on Moebius "museum" in Blood Omen, but I think a lot of people would still see them as out of place. (Although, Musketeer does sound like a good class name.)
    Unreal Tournament has a "Flak Cannon" that might fit. Essentially an Alchemist Gun that causes the ammo to explode at the end of the barrel, sending shrapnel at the enemies.

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