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Thread: My new thoughts for defiance 2

  1. #1

    My new thoughts for defiance 2

    Here is a new theory I have been thinking on. And please feel free to shoot it full of holes.
    Original timeline:
    The reaver is stolen from yanos's retreat and brought to William. he becomes the nemesis.


    Kain comes and kills William with the reaver causing the time altering paradox. nemesis becomes the just and vampiric Armageddon begins. Raziel kills kain, raziel gets sucked into the reaver, Moebius picks it up placing it where young Kain will find it.
    Kain sways Raziel's decision stopping Kain from dying. History is rewritten to allow this. People keep saying this allows for BO2 but I think it only starts for the allowance.


    We play the game (Defiance) up until Old Kain kills Moebius. At this point the pillars have fallen and Moebius should already be dead. So it is a previous version of himself making an appearance. With Moebius now dying earlier than planned young Kain goes back in time (Pure speculation from here on out) however since the Nemesis has already NOT become the Nemesis there need not be a paradox to prevent it thus Kain is the only one holding the reaver (A life draining weapon embued with mystical energies) this round. He returns to his time to see the world had made an effort to wipe the vampire plague from Nosgoth but failed. (This allows for Vorador to be alive in BO2 and beyond)


    Now throughout Defiance 2 Older Kain must finish embuing the reaver with the 4 missing energies. After doing so and perhaps discovering the real truth behind the EG he places the reaver into his younger selves hands. (directly or indirectly. Directly might cause a paradox so probly indirectly) The younger Kain goes about his business and using the fully embued reaver (The key to the binding) in some hidden mechanism within the pillars while old Kain is in the background fighting the EG bare handed (Neither winning). In doing so he not only repairs but cleanses the pillars and thus himself. In doing so the magical embuments in the reaver are used to restore the pillars and the remaining guardian, young Kain. Old Kain has knowingly sacrificed himself from the moment he placed the reaver in his younger selves path. Thus he has both sacrificed himself and stayed his hand in the same moment. History has now overwritten the entire event.


    The heart of Darkness now never having been discovered remains in Kain's chest thus Yanos remains dead and the Hylden who made it into Nosgoth are stuck by themselves with no beast to power the machine. For those fans of Umah it is now a chance for her to be redeemed and a stronger character in Kains life.


    I still gotta work out a couple of things.

  2. #2
    To take the first shot (apologies ), the Reaver can't be brought to William after the Sarafan steal it from Janos. Kain saves Raziel's wraith from it at the end of SR2. It's that same sword he's been using all throughout Defiance.

    If William had it at that time, none of Defiance could take place.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranor View Post
    Now throughout Defiance 2 Older Kain must finish embuing the reaver with the 4 missing energies. After doing so and perhaps discovering the real truth behind the EG he places the reaver into his younger selves hands. (directly or indirectly. Directly might cause a paradox so probly indirectly) The younger Kain goes about his business and using the fully embued reaver (The key to the binding) in some hidden mechanism within the pillars while old Kain is in the background fighting the EG bare handed (Neither winning). In doing so he not only repairs but cleanses the pillars and thus himself. In doing so the magical embuments in the reaver are used to restore the pillars and the remaining guardian, young Kain. Old Kain has knowingly sacrificed himself from the moment he placed the reaver in his younger selves path. Thus he has both sacrificed himself and stayed his hand in the same moment. History has now overwritten the entire event.
    The younger Kain can´t do anything out of his predestined actions and older Kain can´t fight EG just barehanded SR is the only weapon that can harm him. Kain: The future flows around our petty actions, finding the path of least resistance, while admitting only a slight alternations. nobody can´t change the timeline, only slightly adjust it thanks to 2 SR presence.

  4. #4
    to respond to both of you
    the sword was brought to william. the clip in blood omen one shows it as such. I am explaining the means to bypass that sequence.

    Young Kain is not defying his predestined role in what I said. Old Kain and Raziel have done so by killing Moebius before young Kain was supposed to. (End of Defiance)

  5. #5
    But, they didn't. Moebius was killed by young Kain at the Stahlberg garrison, then resurrected by the Elder God, then killed by Elder Kain at the Vampire Citadel, then devoured by Raziel.

    Remember that the Pillars collapsed before Moebius was killed again in that game, and young Kain could not have refused the sacrifice without killing Moebius first.

  6. #6
    Do we know that the Moebius killed at the end of Defiance was a resurected Moebius?

    Been a while since I played through the entire series. I just reread the dialogue at the end of defiance. When Moebius says "To kill me? Again?" Do we know that he was resurected? He could be reffering to this being Kains second time doing so.

  7. #7
    It was unambiguously confirmed by Amy Hennig here.

    Does the young Kain still kill Moebius?

    Yes. When Moebius is summoned to the Citadel at the end of the game, the Elder God has resurrected him from dying at the hands of Blood Omen-era Kain.
    That was vaguely implied anyway:

    Moebius, my good servant, I call you to the place of our first meeting. Return to me here...

  8. #8
    Bummer.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranor View Post
    Raziel kills kain, raziel gets sucked into the reaver, Moebius picks it up placing it where young Kain will find it.
    Kain sways Raziel's decision stopping Kain from dying. History is rewritten to allow this. People keep saying this allows for BO2 but I think it only starts for the allowance.
    MOEBIUS GIVES IT TO WILLIAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10
    I still think it would be fun for the Hylden to be the ones who posses William and turn him and his army into the Nemesis. But Kain's battle causes a paradox that prevents the Hylden from gaining entry into Nosgoth..

    There could be a back story, about how William attempts to use the Reaver and unwittingly allows the Hylden to gain entry into Nosgoth, but they can't take physical form, so the Hylden lord posses William, and the rest of the Hylden posses William's army, turning them into the Nemesis.

    Still being one of the pillar guardians, Mobius sends Kain back in time with another reaver. The battle creates a paradox and closes the door the Hylden used to enter Nosgoth... OOOOOOPS!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by swordsicle View Post
    I still think it would be fun for the Hylden to be the ones who posses William and turn him and his army into the Nemesis. But Kain's battle causes a paradox that prevents the Hylden from gaining entry into Nosgoth..

    There could be a back story, about how William attempts to use the Reaver and unwittingly allows the Hylden to gain entry into Nosgoth, but they can't take physical form, so the Hylden lord posses William, and the rest of the Hylden posses William's army, turning them into the Nemesis.
    I like this idea, it would make sense, especially as we have seen that Mortanious's was taken over by the Hylden, and caused him to do their bidding. Turning William to their side makes sense, especially as his army wiped out most of the vampires.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    MOEBIUS GIVES IT TO WILLIAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Please reread. I was offering a means for that to not have to happen. However I was mistaken in the time Moebius dies.

  13. #13
    Ok, ok sorry, just another discussion I was getting sick of
    I probably didn't read well because of this.......
    Please forgive me

  14. #14

    just to be clear on a few things

    Quote Originally Posted by Yautjatraker/Albatraous View Post
    I like this idea, it would make sense, especially as we have seen that Mortanious's was taken over by the Hylden, and caused him to do their bidding. Turning William to their side makes sense, especially as his army wiped out most of the vampires.
    actully the nemisis arent hunting the vampires in BO1 they are just systematicly conquouring the whole land, kain was just the one who managed to get king otmar to raise the army of hope by saving his daughters life. the fact kain is a vampire is just a happy coincedence

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