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Thread: i just cant understand something....

  1. #1

    i just cant understand something....

    hello tonight a question came to my head when i was thinking about defiance.
    here it goes:

    if Mortanius and Moebius were the ones who started the rebelion against vampires, how is that they are still alive in blood omen 1????

    are they inmortal???


    well perhaps is a question with a simple answer but really i cant understand.
    i won all the games but the years between each one makes you forget some things. thats why im playing all the games again.
    Please answer me


    Darkvampire

  2. #2
    wow, never thought about that...

    They are long-living because they are pillar guardians......

  3. #3
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    The Pillars sustain them, yes.

  4. #4
    yes i always thought that but i wanted to be sure.

    a question: how do you raise ranks in this forum???
    for example linikratyo is "gamer"

  5. #5
    by posting, once you have about 50 posts you become gamer, once you have about 1000 you become protagonist...

  6. #6
    The blood omen manual also says something about the pillars granting their guardians longevity. So, while they can't live forever like vampires, they can still live for hundreds of years.

  7. #7
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    Uhhh...

    Moebius can travel time, so he can be alive in any time period. Mortanius has already demonstrated powers over death. Maybe he's got a friend that can bring him back.

  8. #8
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    Moebius can travel through time, but if he were to go into the future, past the point the Pillars are destroyed and stay for any real length of time, I think he'd probably start to age again. Mortanius is changed into the grotesque demon form by the Hylden Lord in his body after Mortanius dies. Afterwards, his Pillar item is returned to the Pillar of Death, then Kain damns the Pillars. No old Guardian retains their powers and no new Guardian is born to take their place.

    Also, Mortanius and Moebius aren't the only original human Guardians. Roughly 1,500, or more years before BO1 and Defiance's time they, along with Malek, were chosen by the Pillars after the vampires were cursed. They all survive the first 1,000 years until Vorador slays 6 of them, leaving the 3 Ms, Mort, Moe, and Malek. Malek had lived for the same time without aging also, and his Pillar has no time or death powers. Second, once the 6 are slain, new Guardians are chosen to replace them: Ariel, Nupraptor, Azimuth, Anocrothe, Baine, and Dejule. They live on for the next 500 years until BO1 and Defiance's present (470 years, roughly, for Ariel, as she's murdered, of course).



    The Pillars sustain them.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post

    The Pillars sustain them.
    Yep, but you can't discount the fact that Moeby can come and go as he pleases. He's an old man in every single game = He ages just fine.

  10. #10
    I don't think it was mentioned as to whether Malek was one of the original human guardians or whether he was guardian when Moebius and Mortanius began their rebellion. In fact at that time, the other guardians would have already been made into vampires already. It's possible Malek was still centuries younger than them when Vorador made his attack and he would probably would have lasted a lot longer once Mortanius took away his body. It would make sense for them to have choosen a younger guardian to make into their puppet as he would have been easier to maniupulate.

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    Yes, he could have been younger. Moebius and Mortanius led the revolt, but it's not clear whether they had other Guardians with them, or not. It depends on how much younger we're talking. Once they revolted, any Vampire Guardians would have been killed and new human Guardians would have taken their place. Malek could have been born as Guardian right after the revolt, or centuries later as you say, or made not long before the Sarafan's rise. So, he could be anywhere from near 1,000 years old still by the time of the Sarafan, 6-800 years old (still pretty old), just made, or anywhere in between. It stands to reason, though, that if Ariel, Nupraptor, Dejule, Baine, Anocrothe, and Azimuth aren't aging in 500 years, that Malek wouldn't have aged either much in 1,000, regardless if he lived that long before being cursed to his armor, or not.

    It would make sense for them to have choosen a younger guardian to make into their puppet as he would have been easier to maniupulate.
    To be fair, we only see Moebius use him that way. By being the protector of the Circle, he's not really a puppet, just the best choice for the job as Conflict Guardian.

  12. #12
    Yeah, I just meant he could have been practically any age when we saw him in SR2. If the era at the end of SR2 was 500 years before BO1, then he's at least that age but as far as I know, it hasn't said how old Ariel, Nupraptor, Azimuth, Anocrothe, Baine, and Dejule were in BO1 either. Malek never allowed a circle member to fall since Voradors attack, but that could just mean that they weren't killed by anyone. There's nothing to say whether Moebius (had the EGs help) and Mortanius (power over death) are the exception or the rule for a guardian's lifespan.

  13. #13
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    That's funny how they say that Malek hasn't allowed any other Guardian to fall since, but Ariel was murdered about thirty years before Blood Omen starts.

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    Well, "they" that say that is actually Moebius saying that to Kain as he posed as the Oracle of Nosgoth. What his reasoning on that is, I can only speculate. Perhaps he didn't follow Kain's journey enough to know he'd not only met Ariel's ghost at the Pillars, but that she was, in fact, helping him on his quest. Perhaps he then wished to keep Kain ignorant of her so he wouldn't deter from the course Moebius wanted him on to figure out the real goings on. Or, maybe he wouldn't want him to meet her in case she might warn him about Moebius' true self under that guize. Or, it's just him being a git. Who knows? lol Oh, and another thing: considering that Mortanius, another Guardian, killed Ariel, Malek technically still hasn't let another Guardian fall to any attacker other than the Circle itself (though then technically the "Unspoken" is in Mort making him do it, so yeah...). It's kind of like, he can protect them for all but themselves

    And yes, we don't know exactly if those Guardians had been alive the entire 500 years. I tend to believe they were, but it's possible otherwise. It seems a Circle member dying is a rare occurrence. It would be hard to maintain the Balance constantly if Guardians kept dying and being replaced (and from when a new one is born, they aren't useful until they reach maturity, which takes at least 20 years; all of those years with no Guardian to speak of) every hundred years, or less. Heck, we've seen it's hard enough to maintain as is I tend to think the Pillars are set up to extend the Guardian's life for ages to make sure the Balance holds, with only something killing a Guardian forcing a new change. Perhaps this isn't immortality, but thousands of years doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

    Also, one last thing. It seems like way, waaay too much power to give to any one Guardian (or two of nine) to have him, or her, last longer in their life span than the rest. Who's to say the Time Guardian, or the Death Guardian should be able to cheat death when their counterparts must fall victim to it still? I don't buy that. If they see they're next to immortal, while the others simply aren't, wouldn't they naturally act more like the rulers of the Circle, and thus, of Nosgoth? Moebius is devious enough and deadly enough as is without giving him that much more of an advantage.

  15. #15
    If they managed to last 100 years, when other guardians only lasted a couple of hunderd, then of course that would be cheating. However, I wouldn't put cheating past them. Moebius already had the advantage that the EG would bring him back if he ever died and the hylden were helping Mortanius at some point when they were schooling him in the ancient prophesies. I admit I'm only speculating, though.

  16. #16
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    the hylden were helping Mortanius at some point when they were schooling him in the ancient prophesies.
    I believe Mortanius is referring to the ancient vampires when he says that line, "You forget who schooled me in the ancient prophecies." The vampires would have had to have shared their knowledge of the prophecies with him and the other Guardians so they would understand what their true function was. The Hylden only needed to use and manipulate Mortanius and Azimuth. I doubt Mortanius gleaned anything of the prophecies from them. Perhaps like Raziel he and she were told the murals the Hylden made of the great war showed the truth, that the vampires started the war. But, as far as the prophecies, no. Mortanius follows that line up with, "I refused at first to believe in the ancient myths." By myths, I definitely think he's still talking about what the vampires told him of the phrophecies, just like Vorador tried to convince himself and Raziel that's all they were in SR2, "Fairytales, boy. The delusions of an ancient race still clinging to hope long after the world had discarded them." Mortanius then adds, "But they were right, and we were wrong to overthrow them, Moebius and I. We didn't understand what it was the Pillars were holding back." I think all of that is explaining simply that the vampires taught him the prophecies, along with the others, but he and Moebius didn't believe them, and now he realizes they were right all along about the prophecy and about the great threat of the Hylden. That's how I saw it, anyway.

  17. #17
    i always put it down to them having power over time and death.

    as for him knowing about the vampires profersys well, the vampires did take the humans that became guardians, whats to say they didnt teach them or school them in the ways of being a vampire/guardian, after all at this point they must have been more sociable with one another unlike the vampires you meet (not counting janous and voradore)

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