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Thread: Matchmaking

Matchmaking

  1. #51

    Matchmaking

    Is it possible for the matchmaking process to find the players 1st.. and then let us vote for the map?

    From what i see, the game picks a map 1st, and then finds 8 players who search that same map, and right now, with this few players, youre basically dividing what few players we have in the lobbies into 2 groups waiting. making the matchmaking process even slower then what it could've been.

  2. #52
    Originally Posted by cmstache
    The problem is, because it's team-oriented, none of those stats matter. It'd have to be based on a win ratio vs games played. The problem is that those numbers are based on them as a team, not the individual as we're trying to do. Honestly, the best thing people can do is just suck it up for a bit until beta. It's a team game. One of the first things I did was try to find people to play with on the regular. I reached out to them, because I knew it was required. Even if you find one person I'm sure that person knows another or two. I don't think penalizing the teams in a team game is the way to go here.
    actually you can work out team based stats, its just more complex.
    earlier tonight I was on a losing team, I was on the team with all the new meat. the New meat wasnt attacking as a team, the only one trying to co ordinate with another team mate was me, i was jumping in the same time as any of the other guys were.
    the thing is this shows up in stats like this

    my kills were 11 my assists were 8

    the rest of the team combined scored 9 kills and in total they had 10 assists

    the assists were 3-3-4 . as i have tried to point out assists are an important measure of teamwork, you can see i made more kills than the number of assists in total. you can also see i assisted on all but 1 kill that the rest of the team made.
    this means its plain to see I was playing as a team member, the new meat were ramboing.
    you can see the rambo mentality even without knowing one of them racked up a kill 1 / death 13 / and assist 3

    if you do take deaths into consideration then the number of kills and assists together should be higher than deaths on a losing team if the player is good and substantially higher if on a winning team.

    a bad player would have less deaths than the kill assist sum on a losing team and less than or equal to on a winning team.

    Nosgoth records all these stats so a good sum would work out the sum like this
    k=1 d=1 a=0.5 (so if a player has made 600 kills total in nosgoth they would get 600 points)

    k × (a÷2) ÷ d =
    then we take that and multiply it by the decimal representation of the percentage of wins (60% wins =0.6)

    so 600 kills 1000 assists and 550 deaths = 545
    multiply that by a win ratio of 60% and you get a score of 327

    this would create a broad scoring system that took into account teamwork, skill, recklessness, win%, and give you a score to assist in balancing the game...

    no sum is perfect, yes you may see a flaw, please don't just say "ahhhh but it doesn't take this into account". your negative comments (which things like this always get) mean nothing unless you can actually offer a better sum thats within the confines of reality.

  3. #53
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    Honestly in this game I hate looking at an individual player's stats based on it being a team-game. I find the biggest issue with the newer players is lacking knowledge of how the game works. I've seen new players make incredible shots with their skills, but just don't know how to use them beyond the usual run in and kill what you can mentality from most other PvP arenas. Personally I feel slowing the pace at which players rank up, and then matchmaking based on rank would be enough with out overly complicated K/D/A ratios and scoring. At the higher ranks, then wins and losses will determined more by each players own skill, as (ideally) all players in the match have a solid grasp on the subtleties of the game's mechanics
    In-game: Sirshua, being a sir everywhere.

  4. #54

    matchmaking issues

    Whats up with newbies vs veterans all the time? Teams are NEVER balanced, there is always at least 3x people below level 5 and most likely a capped person vs 4x capped/teens. Why not just have the low/high levels split evenly? I havent seen a single game that happened, for a long time. Most of my games this week were unbalanced like hell, which is, not only driving new players away, its just sad/boring for veterans, no matter which side you playing on.


    When you look at the total levels of each team, its always something like 65 vs 25 and you KNOW who is most likely going to stomp that match. Not to mention the high level player leaves on countdown or after few minutes into game, cant we have a little punishment for leaving on countdown, like a minute cooldown for their search button..?

  5. #55
    OH COME ON.... I just made a topic about it then i find this one, was wondering why no1 bothered to make a topic about it...(never really checking the technical discussion part of the forum..)

  6. #56
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    This has been discussed at length already.
    In-game: Sirshua, being a sir everywhere.

  7. #57
    yeah, noticed a little late. Such an important issue and it wasnt even on first page..

  8. #58
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    That's because discussing it further isn't helping. Psyonix knows about it, and are actively working on it, along with everything else on their plate.
    In-game: Sirshua, being a sir everywhere.

  9. #59
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    The Matchmaking Needs Work

    There has been a steady flow of new players to the game which are always a welcome sight, it keeps the game fresh, but it has made a previously identified issue with matchmaking all the more in need of correcting.
    The new players are not going to the server intended for them because most are skipping it to get right into the fight with the more experienced players and the ones that want to play that server can never find a match so they end up having to skip.
    I have no problem playing with new players and I have no problem playing with new players against veterans, which always results in me and the team getting an ass kicking. This second scenario, however, has been occurring so frequently that I can say that it accounts for about 85% of my experience with the game since returning from the holiday break and I can't say how often it happens to other veterans, but other veterans have reported playing the same scenario.
    This is causing a lot of rage quits among the new players and while I can't speak for the other veterans it has been frustrating the hell out of me.

    PLEASE FIX THE MATCHMAKING, PLEASE.
    Last edited by GenFeelGood; 21st Jan 2014 at 07:21. Reason: failed to proof read

  10. #60
    the first time they implemented matchmaking it was taking one lvl 20 player and matching them with the 3 lowest players in the match and then facing them against what was left (normally something like 4 lvl 18s) there were many complaints including from myself (I called it unbelievably broken and got raged at by one of the devs) and so they removed the matchmaking and went back to purely random which is 1 billion times fairer.

    However they have since decided to re implement this problem without fixing it which has led to a gaming experience which makes every game fall completely unbalanced if a lvl 20 player is in the game unless a miracle happens like all players are lvl 20s .

    The current system is not a match making system as every game outcome can be predicted with 99.9% accuracy (the lvl 20 who is teamed with 3 lvl 1s will lose to the team that has 4 lvl 18s), all I can assume is that they confused matchmaking with match fixing.

    its not fun on the winning team, its not fun on the losing team, the new players dislike it, the old players dislike it no one is happy...

    despite numerous efforts by the community offering solutions it seems the devs were happy with the current state of the "matchfixing" system or else I'm sure they wouldn't have put it back in without fixing it.

    the other explanation could be that we are all imagining it because the QAs *cough20s* haven't had any issues with it.

    A dev will probably rage at me despite most of this being fact apart from the assumptions i have based on the supporting evidence.

    Key;
    underlined is fact
    Bold is assumptions based on the available evidence.

  11. #61
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    Well that sucks, but thanks for bringing me up to speed.

  12. #62
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    The match maker has been discusses ad nauseam to everyone on this forum. There is a larger thread in the Technical side, which this will eventually be merged with.
    In-game: Sirshua, being a sir everywhere.

  13. #63
    Originally Posted by Syst3mzero
    it seems the devs were happy with the current state of the "matchfixing" system or else I'm sure they wouldn't have put it back in without fixing it.

    Bold is assumptions based on the available evidence.
    I wouldn't say this is entirely accurate, or that you're not using all of the available evidence. We've stated time and time again that we're not happy with the current state of matchmaking and that it's our highest priority at the moment. We also said that the initial matchmaking we put in and then quickly reverted was obviously worse than what we had, so instead of leave the system in there not working we went back to the system that was at least partially working. To quote Corey on what he said in the thread you made about it, Syst3mzero:

    So it'll be early next week unless we can get Square's server team to roll back to the last stable build you guys were on (we've sent emails, but won't know until tomorrow).
    In your own thread it was explained as to why we rolled back. We understand that it's frustrating and it's being worked on, but this is the un-fun of the alpha/beta/testing part of game development. Assuming that we're "happy with it" when we've said everything to the contrary wouldn't be quite correct.

  14. #64
    A couple observations/bandaid fixes until there's an ELO system:

    The level cap's been 18 for months. It doesn't make sense for 20's to be weighed higher than 18's.

    The current system puts the lowest ranks on one team, with one highest rank player to carry them. Games would be more competitive if the lowest ranks were divided evenly across both teams.

  15. #65
    Originally Posted by jestdoit
    A couple observations/bandaid fixes until there's an ELO system:

    The level cap's been 18 for months. It doesn't make sense for 20's to be weighed higher than 18's.

    The current system puts the lowest ranks on one team, with one highest rank player to carry them. Games would be more competitive if the lowest ranks were divided evenly across both teams.
    That is the idea. Bugs kept sneaking in that didn't show up in our testing. It's not working as designed.

  16. #66
    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Eric
    I wouldn't say this is entirely accurate, or that you're not using all of the available evidence. We've stated time and time again that we're not happy with the current state of matchmaking and that it's our highest priority at the moment. We also said that the initial matchmaking we put in and then quickly reverted was obviously worse than what we had, so instead of leave the system in there not working we went back to the system that was at least partially working. To quote Corey on what he said in the thread you made about it, Syst3mzero:



    In your own thread it was explained as to why we rolled back. We understand that it's frustrating and it's being worked on, but this is the un-fun of the alpha/beta/testing part of game development. Assuming that we're "happy with it" when we've said everything to the contrary wouldn't be quite correct.
    Yes I was told you weren't happy with it, yes it was rolled back to remove it, but now its back with avengeance.

    I assume you are happy with it as after rolling back you once again implemented the new match fixing system.

    If you aren't happy with it then why would you have put it back in having the same problem after removing it? you said you weren't happy with it so you removed it so therefore you must have changed your mind and decided you were happy with it for you to put it back in.... despite it being the same problem still.

    prior to this matchmaking there was no identifiable pattern leading to me believing it was random, now its anything but random as its the lvl 20 + 3 lowest lvl players (most often around lvl 1-3 maybe occasionally as high as 8s) vs whatever is left over (normally 15s+).
    game after game after game.

    The available evidence does support my belief.

    One of the things you could do if you actually wanted to keep us well informed is have a STICKY administrator locked patch thread. this could allow you to feed back update information and you could also feed back the issues you are aware of and fixing from the last update.
    At the moment occasionally we get a patch update, its not sticky, a new thread is started each time, it rarely covers known issues with the changes made.

    At the moment we get little to no feedback and when we do its because we have kicked up a fuss, developers are the right hand and we are the left and the saying goes the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. we often have to assume nothing as far as feedback as many suggestions go ignored. one simple suggestion was on the login page i suggested a link to the alpha survival guide as most new players start playing and have no clue how to do basic things like fly, I suggested this months ago, it never got a reply.
    thing is if the 2 hands don't know whats going on with the other one day you are going to be preparing food and end up a few fingers down.

    up until this month i was trying to not point out that i have knowledge in project management of software rollout as I already come off as an arrogant jerk, but i put it out there a couple of weeks ago because you don't seem to see my suggestions are coming from someone who used to be the problem solver who would supersede project managers who had failing projects. Im also going to put it out there that I can no longer do that due to health reasons restricting me being able to work any more and that i can't keep up with the pace as my brain cant handle it due to mental degradation which causes periods of heavy confusion in which i cant even type.

    before trying to match wits with me ask yourself the question is it that he is wrong or is it that I don't like his attitude?
    when you are honest you will find i have a cold logic and a completely dis-likeable personality.

    lets put it this way when my mother was worried she may die from the cancer she had she came to seek refuge at my house as she needed to escape the abundance of emotional support the rest of the family gave her and she knew I could only fake concern and emotion. she wanted a real opinion then she wanted to change subject and have a cup of tea.

    she has accepted what I am and can see the benefits, more people should learn to.

  17. #67
    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    That is the idea. Bugs kept sneaking in that didn't show up in our testing. It's not working as designed.
    thank you Corey, nice to get some feedback but so more people come across things like this could you sticky and lock a "patch and feedback to testers" thread. that way we dont have to stumble across the right thread to get info and if you lock it to yourselves it won't get junked up by testers.

    I feel the relationship would be more harmonious if we could see feedback like this even when its just a short post like you just posted.

  18. #68
    I think the relationship would be more harmonious if you didn't rage like a 5 year old(I'll say it, I know the devs can't). You have a strong track record on this forum for being abusive and raging about everything. Its really frustrating for everyone and yet we manage to voice our concerns without badgering the devs.

    Clearly the devs care about the game and it shouldn't be a big effort to realize this, also they have to play the games we play. I'm sure they have made the same experience as you with matchmaking. They are not on your schedule, they have their own.

    Thirdly it has clearly escaped you that there are public, private forums, facebook, reddit and twitter. Now they do have a community manager but thats a ton of stuff to read and keep up to date everyday. One person cannot manage that alone, you need to be a little more flexible.

  19. #69
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    It would also help if the newbies actually stayed in the game they are losing instead of leaving 3 min into the first round. How can they expect to learn when it's 6-1 when they leave? That's not even enough time to even consider it a blowout.
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  20. #70
    as a newer player, i think i played with jest a few times last night, i will say i sat in the 1-5 que for over 45 minutes and thats just unacceptable (never got a game), even after using the other que system it took well over 10-15 minutes.

  21. #71
    is matchmaking actually broken and thats why it takes so long, or is there literally just not enough active players? i badly wanna play this and test it but sadly games just dont fill.

  22. #72
    it would honestly help if we the newbs or anyone could find a damn game ~_~

  23. #73
    Originally Posted by TecKnoe
    is matchmaking actually broken and thats why it takes so long, or is there literally just not enough active players? i badly wanna play this and test it but sadly games just dont fill.
    It's a combination. There's a lack of players until we get to Beta, but there's also bugs like where you'll end up in a lobby by yourself and never find a better match. Sometimes it helps to quit out and search again if you're stuck in a solo lobby for too long, as a bandaid for now.

  24. #74
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    Also, joining a friend´s lobby also highers up the chance of finding more players.

  25. #75
    Originally Posted by Strike5150
    I think the relationship would be more harmonious if you didn't rage like a 5 year old(I'll say it, I know the devs can't). You have a strong track record on this forum for being abusive and raging about everything. Its really frustrating for everyone and yet we manage to voice our concerns without badgering the devs.

    Clearly the devs care about the game and it shouldn't be a big effort to realize this, also they have to play the games we play. I'm sure they have made the same experience as you with matchmaking. They are not on your schedule, they have their own.

    Thirdly it has clearly escaped you that there are public, private forums, facebook, reddit and twitter. Now they do have a community manager but thats a ton of stuff to read and keep up to date everyday. One person cannot manage that alone, you need to be a little more flexible.
    LOL

    Strike just try reading it without the rage, you are presuming emotional intent. the nearest thing to rage is a small piece of sarcasm when I called it the match fixing system, other than that if you have attributed emotion to it and that is your own doing.

    The same goes for this post. I quite like you, we have played quite a few games together and I have no problem with you although you will most probably believe this is me raging at you.

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