Thread: Health vs. Burst Damage

Health vs. Burst Damage

  1. #1

    Health vs. Burst Damage

    Hope everyone is in line to have a wonderful Holiday, lots of merry and lots of getting fat

    Any-who....this thought has been rolling around in my head and thought I'd ask. One of the common themes I've seen from various people is the concern over Power activation combos that are nigh uninterruptable and you cannot seem to do anything about it. Or the potential for combined human damage making Vampire chunky salsa in literal seconds should they pop their head out.

    In short, there seems to be a concern about dying before you get to do anything.

    I apologize if this sort of thing has been brought up and am happy to accept a rebuke. I was curious if they'd thought of just increasing the Health of everyone in a blanket way? Something like a 20% health (Arbitrary number) increase so that fights are 'longer' and burst power activation combos don't kill immediately? I'm sure a lot of people have been Snatched, dive-bombed and wing-flapped by me at some point

    The concern just reminded me of Warhammer online beta and similar issues with Ranged DPS classes blowing all their powers and hurting themselves to just immediately kill people before they even reached them. Blanket increase in health definnitely seemed to be an easy improvement in the PvP matches. Making it more of an attrition fight forced people to play different and use different powers instead of just 'going all in'.

    The kill count could just be changed to reflect the longer survival times. Ammo on weapons might be more of a concern now, letting vamps regen would still be a bad thing and finishing them off would be a higher priority. 1 on 1 fights would feel like more of a struggle and almost risky as more life meant you were alive longer for team mates to save you. And 3 power activation combos wouldn't guarantee death without being able to do something.

    Thoughts? Seems a simple adjustment that might make a subtle play-style difference?
    Last edited by Hugbringer; 24th Dec 2013 at 14:18. Reason: additional clarification

  2. #2
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    Hmm, I personally would be against a blanket increase in health. (I assume you mean for both humans and vampires)

    Whilst I agree with the whole Warhammer thing (oh man those combustion wizards agh!), however an opposing example would be World of Warcraft were health inflation just became a norm for every expansion and things went literally insane eventually in PvP, as they had to compensate the health inflation with damage and healing increase and it spiralled out of control.

    It will affect many abilities, like ignore pain because 80% damage reduction and a larger health pool which just make tyrants completely non-viable targets, and just give tyrants more time to run away (which I am currently discussing in my other thread).

    It will also affect the amount of health restored by Vamp regen, yes it's still 20% regen (iirc) but since the abilities and weapons damages remain the same, then vamp regen will seem more effective overall. (I also think healing stations will be more effective)

    Now fights may last longer, but that necessarily isn't a good thing. I for one actually enjoy the current pace of the game, at least for TDM mode. Quick engages and skirmishes, short respawn timers and such. The fast pace keeps things tense and exciting.


    Happy holidays to you, and all

  3. #3
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    Tough to call in my opinion. I think the health levels are fine. Maybe a blanket decrease in dps on the human side is in order but not a huge one.

    I used to play AvP2 heavily (the old one) and the TTK was waaayyyyyyyy lower than in Nosgoth to the point where you were regularly OKOd. It was seen as fine that you had to seriously outplay a human as an alien. Personally I think as long as the humans can't totally shut out the vampires it's still competitive, even if it is imba.

    We really need at least two teams of top players playing regularly to get decent data to work off of.

  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by Oroibahazopi
    Tough to call in my opinion. I think the health levels are fine. Maybe a blanket decrease in dps on the human side is in order but not a huge one.

    I used to play AvP2 heavily (the old one) and the TTK was waaayyyyyyyy lower than in Nosgoth to the point where you were regularly OKOd. It was seen as fine that you had to seriously outplay a human as an alien. Personally I think as long as the humans can't totally shut out the vampires it's still competitive, even if it is imba.

    We really need at least two teams of top players playing regularly to get decent data to work off of.
    Gotta love good ol' AvP2

    A damage decrease on humans might be a bad thing as well, it depends which classes/weapons and abilities call for a decrease.

    However, even with two teams of top players, it won't be really considered good (enough) data, you'd need far far more than two teams to get reasonable data on classes, abilities and over all skills.
    The same 8 people are not enough to provide data to warrant on huge changes to classes just yet. Personally I think all this should be kept on a slight hold until closed beta when we will have more players.

    Also don't forget the game has to be balanced not only for high-level play, but mid and low levels too. Otherwise it will be a game that won't be too welcoming for new players so on and so forth.

  5. #5
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    Agree with Tube Reaver, I really enjoy the fast pace and quick respawns as well.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Tube_Reaver
    Also don't forget the game has to be balanced not only for high-level play, but mid and low levels too. Otherwise it will be a game that won't be too welcoming for new players so on and so forth.
    Its that part that gets me when I see new beta testers paired with experienced players. I agree completely about 'Power Creep' and such that crops up with each successive expansion and or addition that is added to just about any game. Percentages can be a serious pain in the buttocks to manage to be sure.

    I had thought of this as a solution as a way to alleviate 'I can't do anything!' response to power burst builds that mow down the less experienced players when fighting more experienced players. Even if it just say...arbitrary number of say 150 health....thats only 15% increase on average, maybe 1 hit from a vamp or scout bow, 2 from a hunter. 20% regen from a vamp is only like 30 health more, which is quite negligible in the grand scheme of a fight. The extra second or two would give an inexperienced player a brief chance to roll or exploit an error from a veteran and learn something from the encounter through experimentation.

    It seems like things so far feel good on the whole, barring any percentage quibbles that are still around. I suppose my proposal was more of a 'do something for the new guy' idea, less a 'I feel its unbalanced' idea. Being too hard on the new guy can be frightening....I know it makes me look like a softy, but I've seen it scare people away, in this medium and other gaming mediums.

    Pairing system and more beta-testers will likely make all this moot, as you Tube_Reaver said.
    Last edited by Hugbringer; 25th Dec 2013 at 00:55. Reason: bad grammar choice :)

  7. #7
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    Well in my opinion, one solution (albeit with its own flaws) regarding the issue for the new beta testers getting insta-gibbed is to have them only be able to queue up in the New Recruits section until they reach rank 5. As I said in another thread, I only had 6 days worth of playtime yet I picked up the game very quickly.

    Personally I tried to queue up in the New Recruits section but it was empty, so all my games were in the TDM queue. Not a big issue to be honest... except chaining pounce and kidnap Hopefully in beta with a looot more invites players can go for the New Recruits queue with no issues.

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