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Thread: drm

drm

  1. #1

    drm

    please can you not stick a pile of that anti piracy rubbish on this game? like restricting to 3 installs and internet activation every 10 days. that suks and i will not buy the game if you put this on.

    i didnt buy half life because of drm. i wont be buying spore because of drm. i returned doom3 because of the internet activation when it came out. trust me, if you stick a pile of restrictions on the game i wont buy it.

  2. #2
    Something tells me you are in part referring to the Mass Effect/Spore fiasco, in which case there was such a big reaction to that news that EA/Bioware wisely backed down (Well, for the most part)...
    http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums...&sp=0#5774350#

    I do wish publishers would realise that Digital Restrictions Management hurts the legitimate buyers and actually encourages more piracy, I still don't know for sure if I believe the "piracy encourages try before you buy - for good games" argument I often see being used to defend it, but I definately still argue that day 0/1 piracy should be stopped, mostly because its entirely unfair that people who didn't buy the game get to play it before me, but if any kind of piracy is going to be damaging to sales, day 0 piracy is the most likely candidate.

    Point is, treat your customers like criminals and thats exactly what they'll become. I myself have been forced to use a no CD crack to get legitimate copies of one of the battlefield and black and white games to work before, which is simply unnacceptable.

  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by ikenstein
    [...] i returned doom3 because of the internet activation when it came out.[...]
    I am able to play Doom3 without internet connection. The CD-Key can be verified without it. But if you want to play on common online servers you need to be authed by the master server. LAN servers also do not need internet. That's pretty ok for me.

    Edit: But I also don't like the other DRM-like restrictions. Also I never will use a plattform like steam.

  4. #4
    Bioshock was one of the worst of them ever. They had points for uninstalls to avoid lawsuits.

    Nowadays most of the money in the game industry is being wasted on graphics and security. What a waste.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by bsel
    Edit: But I also don't like the other DRM-like restrictions. Also I never will use a plattform like steam.
    Wow. I never realized that I would be under DRM, when I got DX1 off of steam, the second time I bought it. Had I known, I would have asked my Dad to mail me my original CD from half way around the world. ...brings back memories of why I had experimented with non-Microsoft platforms (GNU/Linux), in the first place.

    I, too, would like Eidos to know that I will be checking out for this kind of thing when I buy DX3, so please do not put any DRM stuff on it.

  6. #6
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    Quite simply, I will not buy the game if they put outrageous DRM in the final product. A simple online authorisation is fine as is explained in the Bioware link posted by the topic starter.

    Now I will by mass effect simply because of this new decision of theirs. Well done bioware.

    Developers have to stop putting these types of security features in their games. If its coded it can be cracked. It's that simple. No amount of protection will be able to stop that. They will sell more games if they stop treating the legitimate buyer like crap.

  7. #7
    Eidos has not done this so no worries. The only thing they have done is securom.

  8. #8
    It's sad that DRM and other anti-piracy solutions like SecurROM are causing so many headaches with legitimate buyers (I couldn't install two different games after buying them because the install program didn't recognize the CD--from which it just installed--as valid! )

    Unfortunately you also hear stories about companies like Crytek, who lost so much revenue through piracy that it decided to never make PC exclusive games again--which basically stifles graphics innovation from developers.

    Consoles now create the majority of revenue for console/PC releases.

    I would love developers and gamers to get together to determine possible solutions...This is becoming an issue with the very survival of the PC market.

  9. #9
    The thing is, plenty of developers have used piracy on PC as an excuse lately, but I'm wondering how shaky an argument that is. The main reason for the move, realistically, is that generally more units are shifted on console than on PC (If I remember rightly, that applies to simultaeneous release on multiple platforms)... Some people think its piracy, I think its actually because when you buy a game for a console (Or indeed the console itself) you know that theres a very good chance it will run on the console, you won't need to patch it* or install it - throw the disc in and it'll run. Anyone can see the appeal of that.

    * This is where irony starts to reveal itself, there are silly people who have decided that DLC systems on the new consoles are an excuse to allow a buggy game to leave the disc burning factories because they can just patch it, people don't take kindly to this and I'm sure its only a matter of time before the backlash begins. If you're a developer/publisher reading this, please just in case, take heed, make sure that the game leaves retail is polished as possible, the improved review ratings = improved sales, its worth the effort as your company stands to gain a reputation for polished games, which creates loyalty to your company/brand/franchise/all-of-the-above.

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Gary_Savage
    Wow. I never realized that I would be under DRM, when I got DX1 off of steam, the second time I bought it. Had I known, I would have asked my Dad to mail me my original CD from half way around the world. ...brings back memories of why I had experimented with non-Microsoft platforms (GNU/Linux), in the first place.
    It was not the huge possibility of DRM in steam that made me mention it but the collecting of player data with such a platform. It is a problem concerning my privacy.
    As I have to make many compromises with this already today like observation cameras in public places and telefone monitoring. I could not go to the US because I denied giving my fingerprint for getting a passport and my employer was not very amused of that...

  11. #11
    I really don't understand why online activation is ever used. I have a computer for my gaming that uses no internet connection. I wonder how many people don't buy games simply because of the online activation. A simple cd key is enough for me.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by bsel
    It was not the huge possibility of DRM in steam that made me mention it but the collecting of player data with such a platform. It is a problem concerning my privacy.
    As I have to make many compromises with this already today like observation cameras in public places and telefone monitoring. I could not go to the US because I denied giving my fingerprint for getting a passport and my employer was not very amused of that...
    Wow, and here I am: I remember signing a document stating that by applying for a US visa I would be allowing the US government to keep track of me, if I am allowed entry into the United States (yeah, I applied post 11th September, around March, 2002). Having been raised in a part of the Middle East (and no, I am not from there) where you don't talk about against the government, you don't have voting rights, and the government knows who works where, and for whom, I did not see this as being all that different; just, more technologically advanced. About the fingerprinting, I actually harrassed the people at some downtown Manhattan office, to get my fingerprints on the federal database: being a foreign student (and with some of those 19 hijackers apparently having come in as foreign students), I wanted my name crossed off of the list of possible suspects if any more trouble cropped up. I was told that I had come into the country after 11th September, 2001, and hence had been verified as 'not a threat,' and hence did not need to get fingerprinted, but no, I had to keep insisting (eventually, I went home, though, having failed to get my prints on the federal database). The first time that I left from the US, I made sure to check that I would get fingerprinted. By law, they had my prints taken when I got back. Of course, things had changed, by then, and all passengers traveling to, and FROM, the US were made to take off their coats, belts, and shoes off, and to empty their pockets, before being searched with a metal detector (that included old people), all around the world (that airport announcements in Dhaka and Dubai said that this was being done due to request from the US government).

    I don't know if I would have been more protective my rights, had I been raised in my country, but coming to the US, I only felt a sense of insecurity, rather than a sense that my freedoms had been taken. I remember the joys of being able to vote, for the first time, in my college's undergraduate student government elections, and in my school's IEEE chapter elections (I was actually running).

    As for telephone monitoring, to me, that is something that I have lived with for so long, I actually used to think that it had always been done. On top of that, back where I was raised, there were rumors that the monopoly ISP checked its subscribers' e-mails.

    So I guess it will be a little hard for me to understand how outraged you must be about steam monitoring things that you do. I am a little taken aback, myself, as I had assumed that Steam's data came from surveys. Now, I'll just have to shut that program down, when I am not playing DX. Personally, I don't even trust that the pictures that I take with my cell phone camera are all that private (I got a jolt when my service provider was able to tell whether or not I had my phone on silent mode, and that got me thinking: what else might they be capable to knowing?), and I read, some years back, that there are some laws that telephone service providers are obliged to keep recordings of telephone conversations for a certain number of years. Now, these are things that I can't really do anything about, but it should be possible to limit Steam to monitoring what actions I take in the game world, right?

  13. #13
    STEAM's DRM measures really aren't that bad. Yes, sometimes offline mode is a little wonky, but being able to play my games anywhere I go without needing an install disc is nice. I've never had any major issues with it. I find their methods to be acceptable. The only data they collect from you is usage data.

  14. #14
    I should look into that, a little more, then. I, too, like the convenience of being able to move around without an installation CD; it's a bit like having a ready back up CD of the original (considering that I lost my CD to a house fire, this is really pertinent to me). If Steam only collects data like what portion of gamer sneak around, and what portion go in with guns blazing, then that is fine, by me, since it will show the industry that my niche exists, but if it collects data not related to games I bought off of Steam, then that will be a problem. Thanks for the pointer, I will check it out.

  15. #15
    The paranoia of security checks these days is getting too tedious. The first Deus Ex didn't even had a security check, I think.

  16. #16
    If we want to get onto the issue of privacy, you should look into how much info google stores about your behaviour online (In particular on Internet searches)... In any case, I know in the UK we've got the Data Protection Act and I'm sure many other countries have their equivalent. If the data isn't abused, I honestly don't see why I should be concerned. The only people I feel I need to be wary of are criminal elements that want to steal passwords and the like for financial gain.

  17. #17
    I dont care about DRM. as long as the game is easy to install and there are no hassles after I have installed it, Im fine with the game. But if it has to do some crappy online check every so often, then I might avoid it. Also, as long as the game doesnt have the technical issues of IW, than Im cool. ill preorder it as soon as I can

  18. #18
    I can see both sides of the DRM issue and there's no easy answer, no glib sentence whereby one can dismiss it one way or the other.

    I've had games refuse to play because of Securom and Starforce, I've spent countless minutes re-inserting a CDROM hoping that *this time* it will load, and I've been tempted by the lure free software, even when I knew that I would be depriving the developers of their dues.

    The problem with DRM is that in an attempt to stop piracy (a good thing), there's been much knee-jerking and consumers end up with a steaming plate of buggy, stupid, and/or draconian systems that all to often prevents people from doing what they feel they should be able to as a legitimate owner of that product.

    So why pay for something limited when you can get it for free and use it however, wherever, whenever?

    Piracy is a business model. The consumer has a choice; they can pay for something with limits on its use, or not pay and get it without restriction. Put that way, piracy is the clear winner.

    Most companies just don't seem to get it. They think tougher and tougher DRM is the way to get more customers and it's just not working. There hasn't been a DRM system yet that hasn't been compromised in some way- every digital product is available via both models, so customers will be able make the choice to pirate or not, and they're not going to choose more DRM.

    Eidos (and you other companies) listen up.

    You will fail in the face of piracy unless you adapt to the idea of facing this business model as a competitor, rather than a bogeyman.

    Since you can't beat the pirates on price, there's only one other alternative:
    Beat them on service.

    Reward, don't punish, your customers for spending their hard-earned cash on your products. Give them the things they can't get via illegal P2P networks.

    Radiohead allows their fans to download their music for free, but encourages them to support the band by going to the concerts and buying memorabilia there. What they're selling is the experience and the memories. That's something you will never find on the Pirate Bay; the ability to say "I was there, and I've got the t-shirt to prove it."

    The question then is, what can you give customers who buy your games?
    Physical things are one answer. You could make every copy of the game a mini collectors edition, with one thing in it like a manual full of concept art or designers' notes (I still have mine from Half-Life and System Shock 2), or a poster. You could even make merchandise and sell it separately from the game, giving good discounts to those who buy it and the game at the same time.

    Valve are treading a similar path to this (companion cube, anyone?) and have gone another whole step further. They're taken their DRM and wrapped it in so many benefits that you hardly know it's there. Under the sweet honey that comes from auto updating (both patches and new content), strong community tools, a convenient online store (making it just as easy buy games as to pirate them), and matchmaking, it's hard to taste the bitter medicine.

    It's not perfect by any means; concerns have been raised over privacy, their returns policy (there isn't one), and localization (countries outside the US being denied the same prices or even the games), but it's a step in the right direction. They want their customers to like them, and will do what they can to ensure their anti-piracy measures minimize harm, if not actually provide benefit.

  19. #19
    What I haven't seen yet, thus far, is a system where as soon as copies of the game start being despatched to warehouses/wholesalers/retailers the publisher immediately puts the game out as a downloadable game and make it clear to customers they can go via this method (Potentially you could even get the retailers in on it via special pre-order agreements) The result, it doesn't matter if some dodgy employee at one of the warehouses hands a copy to the pirates so much because the game can already be downloaded and played legitimately via the publishers online distribution system before the pirates even have a chance to upload a cracked copyto the web... Of course, this system wouldn't work on consoles, but thats their look-out.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by hashi
    ...But if it has to do some crappy online check every so often, then I might avoid it. Also, as long as the game doesnt have the technical issues of IW, than Im cool...
    I guess I should only worry about that, rather than complain about the privacy issues, considering that here in the US we have companies like Intelius, which are willing and able to sell our private information (credit history, past addresses, etc.), unless we pay them. Finding out about this company was when I really felt that I lived in a DX world.

  21. #21
    "The year is 2027"

  22. #22
    I'm don't mind my telephone conversations being monitored, since it is all done by machines. If you say "Bomb", "Mall", and "Murder" in a conversation they'll just go back and look at the context. It's not like they're trying to get you social security number.

    I am, however, wary of Steam and direct2drive because I am paranoid of keylogger viruses.

  23. #23
    Really, it's no different to buying anything anything else online, if that's what you're using Steam for. Keyloggers are just as bad if you're using Ebay/Amazon/et al.

    Most games I buy through retail channels, as I like having a physical disk, but I did buy the Orange Box via Steam as it was so much cheaper (games here are expensive. ) , and my account is still there.

    To keep your machine secure:
    • Don't use IE, and if you can, block ads and Java.
    • Do use a good firewall
    • Do use a good Antivirus
    • Do run Spybot
    • Don't download software from sites unless you know you can trust it.
    • Don't visit dodgy sites (e.g. porn, cracks, and warez).
    • Don't open attachments unless you specifically asked for them, or you can confirm that the sender is legit, and knows that they sent it.
    • Don't leave your computer alone with anyone you don't trust absolutely
    • Do apply patches and updates often, especially the MS ones.
    Most of it's just common sense. Follow this, and viruses needn't be a worry.

  24. #24
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    Yeah, that is a sensible list that I try to adhere to.

  25. #25
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    An interesting Anti-DRM campaign is happening.

    It may be sad for the developers and designers of the game but which other chances customers have to protest and to be heard by the big distributors?

    PS: I want to add something to v.dog's list: Don't work/play/surf as superuser (aka Administrator aka root).

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