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Thread: Realism

Realism

  1. #1

    Realism

    Some things I like to see improved or add to Part 3.

    EDITED
    News/Readings

    Television / Radio
    These can be activated to watch/hear some news, for people who are not into reading.
    Get some nice visuals too.

    Telephones
    There are times where the phone rings, it'll be fun to answer them.
    Like one time in DX1 with Icarus.

    Reading out loud
    Or better still, have the character read out for us to listen.
    Evert paper or book we right click, we can hear him read it out, this option can be switch on / off in 'options'.

    So we could listen to it while doing something else.

    Originally Posted by Gary_Savage
    1. Also, the player actions should affect the player's responses. For example, in DX1 I read through every newspaper, book, and kiosk that I found. Yet, JC mentioned, in some conversation, that he was not much into books. I want my choice of reading, or not reading, books and other resources to change my character's responses.
    1. Ya, or how when talking about current issues, the more stuff u read the more details the character can respond with.


    Conversation
    Contradictory responses

    There are some moments, where the dialog contradicts what we were doing.
    Take for example, in DX1: Liberty Island
    The NSF leader call us a "Killing Machine"
    we should have a chance to respond to that, like if we haven't killed a soul yet, we can counter that for fun & hear his response. Who knows maybe show some understanding.


    Style
    Cold
    Normal
    Sarcastic
    Serious

    We may also do it with a certain style each having different kind of response, even a simple 'hmmph'.


    Method of accomplishment
    There are instances where people suggests how to kill someone, so I was hoping to hear different responses to how we actually kill the person in question.
    Like they are talking about the end result of the crime scene, how they see a dart poke through bla bla bla
    or the throat is slit, or whatever.


    Cumulative responses
    Our reputation precedes us.
    Our past actions effects some people's responses, those who've heard of it. Not everyone knows about it.

    Or maybe people we spared can be seen again later.

    Maybe also, they have trust issues the way we contradict our responses & choices. That was done quite interestingly in DX2

    Combat chater
    Rather than have everyone say the same thing while looking for us or attacking or when running away, each should have their own individual background character chatter.
    That includes type of cries (running/dying).

    Weapons Handling
    Dual Functions
    Some if not all weapons should have 2 functions.
    Like switching from single shot to burst shot.
    Or plugging a silencer on a pistol, don't need to switch weapons from noisy to silent, can just have the same gun for both.

    Reload/Ammo Replenish
    Detailed reloading action
    Old ammo clip replenishment

    Iron Sight
    Minor zoom, more personalized targeting.

    Combat
    Grabbing
    Not sure if this can work in a First Person Shooter.

    There are instances where there are 2 people near by each other and I clearly can't kill one without the scream alerting to the other person or the fall of the K.O. body will be noticed if the person turns before we could hide it.
    By grabbing like Splinter Cell, we could pull the person away quickly & either K.O. or kill the person silently.

    Or atleast give a quick silent killing method, is snapping the neck quick quiet?
    Or rather than a simple back stab we can have, when near the person from behind & stand up, we can see the left hand ready to grab with a knife/etc. on the right hand.
    left click & we see the left hand grab the mouth & the right kill him by whatever method, either a stab on the chest or slit the neck.
    Not necessary see the hand move forward, just see the target move backwards like being pulled.
    If no weapon on the hand, it can have (Left Click) neck snapping move (Right Click) choke or something till K.O.

    Drop kill
    I just tested this in DX1 & realized we can indeed kill by doing this, but its a bit unrealistic but a good attempt.

    To kill, one must step on them & stay there long enough till they die, lol
    every second it hurts them, so long as ur on them.
    If you drop high enough, it'll kill them instantly.
    I'm sure its the same if we carry a heavy object & drop on them.

    In part 3, it'll be nice if the target falls down when we drop on them.
    If they still lives, they can get back up.

    Awareness
    Blood
    Blood stains remain until someone sees it, than it disappears afterwards (game performance issue) I don't mind if it remains, but that may lag, which is why they made it disappear in the first place.

    Bullet marks & cracks
    Marks / cracks / door / light / etc.
    anything out of the ordinary happened, rises their suspicions.

    Hunt for the player
    3 lvls
    When they notices the player or a dead body or blood or anything out of the ordinary, they'll search for us, eventually they'll stop & head back.

    Rather than them notice us again & search like this is the first time, they should say things like
    "he's back", "there it is again", "I'll get you this time"
    the 2nd time, they'll take longer time for them to calm down.
    the 3rd time, they'll hunt so long that it feels like it won't end.

    That's all I can think of at the moment, wanted to post this first.


    Originally Posted by Gary_Savage
    2. Also, I want that feeling of Thief1 back. The AI in Thief1 was quite realistic (though, probably not in every aspect) in that if one of the guards saw you, but he got hurt before he could kill you, he would run to get his buddies, and he knew where to go and get them, and then they would be looking for you, and the whole place would forever be on the lookout for you. I would like to see something like that in DX3.
    2. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory have that kind of effect ur describing too. It was great.
    In that game, any changes in the environment will get the AI's attention & follow a trail which may lead to the player (if he/she hadn't left already)

    Reflection
    Water reflection is not necessary, but mirrors on the other hand.
    Gun hold - would be nice to see a proper reflection, is there any game that shows the exact reflection of what the person do & how they hold the weapon?

    Rear view - People standing in front of the mirror may see us coming if we're standing, if we're crouching they can't see us, but may realise the door opened if the door is in the view of the mirror.

    Code Mystery
    If someone wants to sell or got info on the code of a door or something, if we open it with using the actual code itself without asking from anyone by (saving & loading or memory after restarting the game)
    the person who wants to sell it, would ask how u know the code or something.

    A fun joke arc in the game, the mystery grows & the character himself keeps wondering how he/she knows about it.

    Messages
    There are instances where I read datacubes where there's a message to pass to someone like Beth Duclare to Nicolette Duclare.
    I always wanted to see the daughter's response if we pass on the message.

    Rapid dialog
    For when we repeat the game, I hope its possible to fast forward the chatter, so we can go through them fast.

  2. #2
    NPC Conversation
    In addition, they actually doing something sometimes. Like 2 people talking about doing something other than attacking one another, then they go do it. If that gets them killed, we got a choice to interfear or not.

    Enemy chatter, depending on situation, location, NPC's background each have random stuff to say during a fight. Like a coward or blood thirsty person, or if the person is a family person can hear him worrying if he/she's going to die.

    Water Fountain
    When drinking, we can click & hold the button down for a long continuous fast drink healing. Rather than clicking 1 by 1.

    Gore Level
    Like some people have mentioned, a nice realistic effects of what happens when a person gets shot, stab, etc.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by auric
    Some things I like to see improved or add to Part 3.


    Conversation
    Contradictory responses

    There are some moments, where the dialog contradicts what we were doing.
    Take for example, in DX1: Liberty Island
    The NSF leader call us a "Killing Machine"
    we should have a chance to respond to that, like if we haven't killed a soul yet, we can counter that for fun & hear his response. Who knows maybe show some understanding.
    Also, the player actions should affect the player's responses. For example, in DX1 I read through every newspaper, book, and kiosk that I found. Yet, JC mentioned, in some conversation, that he was not much into books. I want my choice of reading, or not reading, books and other resources to change my character's responses.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Also, I want that feeling of Thief1 back. The AI in Thief1 was quite realistic (though, probably not in every aspect) in that if one of the guards saw you, but he got hurt before he could kill you, he would run to get his buddies, and he knew where to go and get them, and then they would be looking for you, and the whole place would forever be on the lookout for you. I would like to see something like that in DX3.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Gary_Savage
    1. Also, the player actions should affect the player's responses. For example, in DX1 I read through every newspaper, book, and kiosk that I found. Yet, JC mentioned, in some conversation, that he was not much into books. I want my choice of reading, or not reading, books and other resources to change my character's responses.

    ___________________________________________________________

    2. Also, I want that feeling of Thief1 back. The AI in Thief1 was quite realistic (though, probably not in every aspect) in that if one of the guards saw you, but he got hurt before he could kill you, he would run to get his buddies, and he knew where to go and get them, and then they would be looking for you, and the whole place would forever be on the lookout for you. I would like to see something like that in DX3.
    1. Ya, or how when talking about current issues, the more stuff u read the more details the character can respond with.

    2. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory have that kind of effect ur describing too. It was great.
    In that game, any changes in the environment will get the AI's attention & follow a trail which may lead to the player (if he/she hadn't left already)

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by auric
    1. Ya, or how when talking about current issues, the more stuff u read the more details the character can respond with.
    That is a BEAUTIFUL suggestion!

  6. #6
    Television / Radio
    These can be activated to watch/hear some news, for people who are not into reading.
    Get some nice visuals too.

    Telephones
    There are times where the phone rings, it'll be fun to answer them.
    Like one time in DX1 with Icarus.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by auric
    Television / Radio
    These can be activated to watch/hear some news, for people who are not into reading.
    Get some nice visuals too.

    Telephones
    There are times where the phone rings, it'll be fun to answer them.
    Like one time in DX1 with Icarus.
    TV and radio was very well done in Vampire The Masquarade: Bloodlines, I'd love to see them take a similar approach.

  8. #8
    I haven't played that game in a long time, forgotten how they did it there.

    Reading out loud
    Or better still, have the character read out for us to listen.
    Every paper, book & datacubes we right click, we can hear him read it out, this option can be switch on / off in 'options'.
    Computer emails, that we have to read ourselves.

    So we could listen to it while doing something else.

  9. #9

    A World of worlds

    You are getting into what Deus EX 1 and to some degree Deus Ex IW achieved. It is in some ways it is what to keep and toss, but not only that. It is creating representations of real places, but more than that also. It is the physical world of objects and weapons that can be manipulated in a believable way. It is people being human enough in conversations and actions, and coherence and consistency in a discourse. Deus EX after all is a social and cultural space.

    Because Deus Ex 1 was limited, it could only provide a minimal world, without any embellishments. I am glad of this at this moment. Otherwise, it's quality might have been blamed on something technological.

    One very good place to look for that essence or "world" is in Hell's Kitchen; one very clear example of a world within the bigger Deus EX World. In Hell's Kitchen, you encounter the Underworld Tavern, and meet bar tenders, customers, and Jock who talks and reveals his very pragmatic outlook on life from his tendency to only talk if you buy him beers to is ability to keep secrets that further his job and career. Also, there's Joe Green and his rather abrasive personality. Outside, you and UNATCO troopers engage in a fire fight with the NSF. There are several streets and plaza etc. Not big, but just big enough and varied enough. You learn how to find Smuggler from one or more people. You see Paul's apartment and encounter hostage takers at some point n the process. You see the free (?) clinic and its discourses, and its not so free Medkits. And of course you get the means to continue on to the location of the generator. And the Ton with its variety of physical spaces and intersect the world of the owner an his daughter there or on the street. It is a surprisingly rich and coherent world that is convincing enough to be real, even while everything is flawed.

    The fascinating thing is that everything about DEUS EX is flawed an yet it creates series of social and physical worlds that are believable enough to be believed. The social and combat dances are flawed, yet somehow, good enough to make JC Denton a believable and coherent being in those worlds within the bigger DEUS EX World.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by auric
    Not sure if this can work in a First Person Shooter.

    There are instances where there are 2 people near by each other and I clearly can't kill one without the scream alerting to the other person or the fall of the K.O. body will be noticed if the person turns before we could hide it.
    By grabbing like Splinter Cell, we could pull the person away quickly & either K.O. or kill the person silently.

    Or atleast give a quick silent killing method, is snapping the neck quick quiet?
    Or rather than a simple back stab we can have, when near the person from behind & stand up, we can see the left hand ready to grab with a knife/etc. on the right hand.
    left click & we see the left hand grab the mouth & the right kill him by whatever method, either a stab on the chest or slit the neck.
    Not necessary see the hand move forward, just see the target move backwards like being pulled.
    If no weapon on the hand, it can have (Left Click) neck snapping move (Right Click) choke or something till K.O.

    Drop kill
    I just tested this in DX1 & realized we can indeed kill by doing this, but its a bit unrealistic but a good attempt.
    all this stuff was done awesomely in The Chronicles of Rid: Escape from Butcher Bay, in 1st person.

    [edit: what the hell!? can't even say rid?]

  11. #11
    Cool, if can grab someone in FPS, that's nice.

  12. #12
    Most of your ideas are interesting but in a topic about interactivity we have suggested something like your own ideas; hear some new put on / off the TV using mobile phones etc ....
    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=75441

  13. #13
    Haven't manage to read them all, but I'm sure many have the same/similar ideas, just want to list them all down in 1 post, easier to see, than expecting someone to have been through all the other posts to ensure they don't miss something.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by auric
    Water Fountain
    When drinking, we can click & hold the button down for a long continuous fast drink healing. Rather than clicking 1 by 1.
    Lol. This wont and shouldnt be changed. The water fountain is not a medbot. Its there to be a tedious way to increase your health. Something that exists that a desperate person can use, but most of the time is not bothered with.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Fen
    Lol. This wont and shouldnt be changed. The water fountain is not a medbot. Its there to be a tedious way to increase your health. Something that exists that a desperate person can use, but most of the time is not bothered with.
    Not asking for a jump in healing.
    Just a more rapid rate compare to the DX1, but still takes time waiting while holding the button down.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by auric
    Not asking for a jump in healing.
    Just a more rapid rate compare to the DX1, but still takes time waiting while holding the button down.
    But it wouldnt be a pain in the ass. Which is what they were aiming for.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Fen
    But it wouldnt be a pain in the ass. Which is what they were aiming for.
    Ya, but I don't see what's the point, since Sodas, Candy, alcohols, etc. can have the same results but all much quicker than the fountain.
    anyway that day is over.

    Hoping for them to make it more realistic now which is/should be the aim of every games.
    It's still troublesome, as its limited.

    Drinks/Foods (very limited) - Fountains (Limited) - Bots (Infinite but time consuming)

    But considering this is a prequel, & they said those bots are new in DX1, so the Fountains should be the best healing method as the bots don't exist, lol

  18. #18
    whatever happened to good ol' bandages?
    or field-medical supplies in your knife handle, Rambo style!

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by serene_chaos
    whatever happened to good ol' bandages?
    or field-medical supplies in your knife handle, Rambo style!
    All that's in Med kits.

  20. #20
    hmm, i wonder whether the health system will be 'traditional', or the new sort of 'pain' system, that the kids seem to be so fond of lately.
    things like max payne (i think), halo, etc, where you take 'pain damage', which slowly goes away. in effect, your health recharges.
    or theres the 'bleeding system', where youre health drops for a period of time after injury, 'bleeding'. and stops dropping after enough time has passed or you bandage the wound.
    personally i like the Riddik health system. theres 6 or so smaller health bars, and once the first disappears the second begins decreasing. if the person stops shooting at you with a bar halfway down, that bar will recharge, but any bars that have completely diminished can only be recharged via a healing station.
    its kinda hard to explain.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by serene_chaos
    hmm, i wonder whether the health system will be 'traditional', or the new sort of 'pain' system, that the kids seem to be so fond of lately.
    things like max payne (i think), halo, etc, where you take 'pain damage', which slowly goes away. in effect, your health recharges.
    or theres the 'bleeding system', where youre health drops for a period of time after injury, 'bleeding'. and stops dropping after enough time has passed or you bandage the wound.
    personally i like the Riddik health system. theres 6 or so smaller health bars, and once the first disappears the second begins decreasing. if the person stops shooting at you with a bar halfway down, that bar will recharge, but any bars that have completely diminished can only be recharged via a healing station.
    its kinda hard to explain.
    Well whatever bleeding method they choose, they should bring back DX1's separate limbs hitpoints.

    Are legs (Crawl when both 0) & hands (lower accuracy) the only limbs that have side-effects when injured?
    Are there any side-effects when the head or torso gets injured?

  22. #22
    I don't know why the fountain shouldn't change the manner of use since the first game, in duke nukem we have the same thing, but you must break the fountain to get more water and use the continuous heal.
    Most of times I used the fails and defaults of the game for my advantage in the NSF generator for example to return back to the free clinic. I madded with crates a passage to go back to heal me the level is madded in the manner you can't go back after a specific location in the level, and an other proof when you finish the mission you have jock inside the bar and in the chopper
    I think not blocking some passages after your passage are a good thing to for realism and allows more missions if we want.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by auric
    Well whatever bleeding method they choose, they should bring back DX1's separate limbs hitpoints.

    Are legs (Crawl when both 0) & hands (lower accuracy) the only limbs that have side-effects when injured?
    Are there any side-effects when the head or torso gets injured?
    i didnt know about the no-hands side effect. it'd be better if you lost the ability to hold weapons and, like, crates and stuff.
    and once you lose your torso or head, the side effect is death.

    perhaps we could have, individual sections of the body slowly recharge indepentantly, but once theyre gone theyre gone. maybe you could be able to mod particular parts of your body to recharge faster or be resistant to damage?

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by serene_chaos
    i didnt know about the no-hands side effect. it'd be better if you lost the ability to hold weapons and, like, crates and stuff.
    and once you lose your torso or head, the side effect is death.

    perhaps we could have, individual sections of the body slowly recharge indepentantly, but once theyre gone theyre gone. maybe you could be able to mod particular parts of your body to recharge faster or be resistant to damage?
    Has anybody forwarded the idea of dual-wielding/akimbo stuff? Not just 2x SMGs or something, but multitool in left hand and pistol in right. Obviously not sniper rifle left and LAW right.

    I'm not saying it's what I want to happen, just wondering what the general feeling is to that kind of gameplay. It's more realistic...

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by serene_chaos
    i didnt know about the no-hands side effect. it'd be better if you lost the ability to hold weapons and, like, crates and stuff.
    and once you lose your torso or head, the side effect is death.

    perhaps we could have, individual sections of the body slowly recharge indepentantly, but once theyre gone theyre gone. maybe you could be able to mod particular parts of your body to recharge faster or be resistant to damage?
    The hands part, I was referring to it when badly damaged, not "no hands"
    I don't know what will happen when both hands got shot out though but when they are injured, accuracy decreases.

    Ofcourse if the head & torso is gone, they're dead. But what happens when they are only badly injured?
    Is accuracy more lower for head or something?

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