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Thread: Movement, Weaponbelt and Dual Wild

Movement, Weaponbelt and Dual Wild

  1. #1

    Movement, Weaponbelt, gadgetbox and Dual Wild :)

    What i want to see in game, is that movement speed is layed into mousescroller. As scrolling down on scroller reduses your speed to walk and down to sneak. While scrolling up raise your speed to run and up to sprint. Other thing i want to see is the weaponbelt. That is simple two slots in your inventory that are actionbased slots/macros to your 1 to 2 key (left and right side). This makes you lay two weapons of your choise, hanging into your weaponbelt. Even this weapons make different much of noice in different kind of speeds, when hanging down at your weaponbelt. (Like a rifle hanging down will easy hit your hip and make some noice, while pistols/revolvers hangs more steady.) While in sneak those are silent enuff for sneaking but in walk those will make some of noice. In run and sprint you make lots of noice and can't even run so fast with a rifle hanging in your weaponbelt. Even cooler thing could be to set in (two pistols/revolvers of choise). If you pick up two pistols or revolvers of same kind. You can use this to dual wild, only to set those two pistols/revolvers to slot 1 and 2 (must be of same kind/brand). When you are going to dual wild, you simply have to press on 1 or 2 key and both pistols will come up. Like as two sights in the HUD with some space betwin them and lefthand side sight autoaim on left side as righthand side sight autoaim on rightside of the screen at close range. This could be cool to make fast take down of small rooms.

    Just a thoght. Would give lots of atmosphere to the gameplay.

  2. #2
    I can't see it affecting atmosphere in the slightest. I can see the gung ho player loving it but atmosphere would be untouched. The weapon belt, there's the problem of accessibility. I know that trying to increase accessibility is what ruined IW but it still needs to start somewhere, and making the mousewheel the movement toggle, that would confuse everyone who's used to it being the weapon select. What you seem to forget with the clicking weapon select, is that you need to put your weapons away regularly. This was achieved with right click in the original, and it should have been right click in IW. Adding all these effects to combat features will draw attention away from the controls needed for other ways of doing it, like stealth and maintanence. It would lose the diversity until it became just a shooter with an above average story. Frankly, realism can bugger off if it's gonna be responsible for me being unable to access what I need when I need it. To quote Yahtzee, "I'd rather be stupid and having fun than bored out of my immense cranium". The same applies to games that try too hard to be realistic. At the end of the day it is a game, and games don't have to be real.

  3. #3
    Games have to be so real those ever can get, to have a story you can even belive in. Yeah it's sure you will loose the weapon select on scroller. But how fast can you pick up a wanted weapon from a fully filled backpacker, in real life. Actually there is only chance that you have two weapons for fast pickups, while the rest of them is packed in your inventory. Movement is even depending on how much stuff you are carring in your inventory, as like what you have handy in your weaponbelt. So why not split inventory from weaponbelt. This action will give game huge amount of realism, while it's still a cyberpunk game.

  4. #4
    DX had an abominable physics engine, borderline painful AI and let me lug around a GEP gun, a flamer and a plasma gun in addition to a complemant of grenades, 10 to a square, a pistol or 2, the crossbow, a knife and a batton. Realism was not a priority but it was still incredibely involving. It was a game where you'd actually forget that you need to save it was sso involving, and that was nothing to do with the realism of the system. If we're going to be realistic, a .22 round is going to have me bleeding out on the ground reguardless of where I got hit and a brick is going to cause permenant damage that won't be repaired by prodding a bot. Deus Ex doesn't involve you with the realism of the combat, it involved you with the story. If they need to make combat ultra real to involve players, then Eidos need to hire a new design team.

  5. #5
    No. It's should be really easy to fix, in my point of view. Yeah i'am with you that DX1 had the item bar just all the way down the HUD. But like our game technology involves, like does the realism in games. Why then not just lay the same item bar in DX3, but set those slots/keys/macros only from 3 to 9 and only for placement for your 7 favorite gadgets (no weapons at all). And lay that like your "gadget box" and *ONLY* weapons to 1 to 2 slots/keys/macros like your "weaponbelt". Like if you press 3 to 9 keys/macros. You see your character pick up his gadgetbox and take up the gadget you have been choosen to use at the specific moment. Weapons should not been shuffled with gadgets and in the other ways. Those should have two different placements in the game and have different timelimits to been bringed up. Like it should be really hard to scroll throw all weapons in your eguipment by scrolling the mousewheel. Those weapons that you don't have been attached to your belt, should take time to take up from your rest of eguipment.


  6. #6
    this would involve a very high number of gadgets. Which I like. I jusy find it hard to concieve that even when going for the realitic side of carrying, you would still be limited to 2. maybe a space on your back for large weapons that took a notable amount of time, a medium weapon dangling from your belt/strapped to the outside of your leg depending on size, a pistol sized weapon in a secure holster and a melee weapon held somewhere on your torso, but 2 weapons seems a bit limiting, especially for a multipurpose superagent who was manufactured to adapt on the fly.

  7. #7
    Well. What i ment was to have a overall eguipment inventory with weapons and gadgets, like old inventory menu. But separate those two different fast choosements to 2 weapons to weaponbelt and only 7 gadgets into gadgetbox. But you will still have your inventory "backpacker" with 10-30 more weapons and gadgets in your way of taste. But from the inventory you can only choose two weapons to your weaponbelt as like seven gadgets to your gadget kit. = To 1-9 slots/keys/macros...

    You can choose to carry two rifles in your belt, but will be really slow in movement and make very much of noice in fast speeds. Best are to carry one rifle and one pistol or grenades to get speed back and reduse your noice. Two equal pistols/revolvers will make you move in full speed and reduse your noice to almost to zero. This will even make the dual wild go on automaticly, but still you have no grenades and have less fire power from your two pistols. Just only to clean out rooms with only short distances.

    But if you go in with rifle and grenades in your waponbelt. You will have more firepower on range and grenades to send into room. This is just up to you to choose and maybe even up to your skills. You maybe go for a silenced rifle instead of two silenced pistols, that cost more money and require other skills. There is lots of thing to experiment in this case, i belive.

  8. #8
    Still the issue of right click's original purpose, for interaction and pacifying your weapons. The only real alternative would be to use "e" as the interact button, but then we've lost the lean option. Unless our character is unexplainabley crippled in the right knee.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by GruntOwner
    Still the issue of right click's original purpose, for interaction and pacifying your weapons. The only real alternative would be to use "e" as the interact button, but then we've lost the lean option. Unless our character is unexplainabley crippled in the right knee.
    Why would it matter on right click ? The right click is still in use. But you have choose of weapons on 1 and 2 key and not at mouse at all.

  10. #10
    Even if you choose to use rifle and grenades or pistol grenades, what ever. The grenades will be thrown on that key you have placed the grenades. So you have only to set rifle or pistol to 1 slot/key for example and grenades to 2 slot/key. Then it's on nessery to press 1 key ones and rifle is on, then press on 2 key to throw your choosen type of grenades from your belt.

    If you have dual pistols those most both be with or without same attachments. Like silencers or other stuff. To go into the dual wild mode. You can't get into dual wild with a pistol and revolver in the other hand. Both must be of same type and have same attachments on them.

    If those are not the same, they will only pop up for them self. But if these are the same. It's enuff for you to press 1 or 2 key and both pistols or revolvers is coming up and you going into dual wild mode.

    Hahaha. Just been in other thread and been momorised about the throwing knifes in DX1. Think going dual wild with only knifes. Whohoho. What a mess and loads of fun, but also a very dangerous act to do. But still really awesome. Don't know or remember how the knifes will be sorted in eguipment. But think if those will be sorted like 5 and 5 in every slot. Then it's only to lay 5 knifes to slot 1 and 5 knifes to slot 2 and you going dual wild with throwing knifes only.

  11. #11
    Deus Ex was a working system, it was simplistic where it needed to be and complicated where it enhanced the story, you seem to be trying quite hard to change that. Duel weilding is a cliche that is usually poorly achieved these days. There will be people whining if they can't have their 2 pistols on hand simultaneously, one for supressive fire with lots of ammo and one as a finisher. more people than there would if we just left a working system. And I can't for the life of me think why the hell I'd want so many types of pistol. A 10mm pistol with a reasonable clip is the only practical thing to do in a combat situation. All this hype about .50cal is plain bull because they're noisy, heavy, have about 6 rounds before they need reloading. Revolvers would just be dated pieces of rubbish that would have the firing mechanism removed, gilded a bit and put on display. No one would be caught using one unless they had some serious attention deficit.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by GruntOwner
    Deus Ex was a working system, it was simplistic where it needed to be and complicated where it enhanced the story, you seem to be trying quite hard to change that. Duel weilding is a cliche that is usually poorly achieved these days. There will be people whining if they can't have their 2 pistols on hand simultaneously, one for supressive fire with lots of ammo and one as a finisher. more people than there would if we just left a working system. And I can't for the life of me think why the hell I'd want so many types of pistol. A 10mm pistol with a reasonable clip is the only practical thing to do in a combat situation. All this hype about .50cal is plain bull because they're noisy, heavy, have about 6 rounds before they need reloading. Revolvers would just be dated pieces of rubbish that would have the firing mechanism removed, gilded a bit and put on display. No one would be caught using one unless they had some serious attention deficit.
    I know. I don't say, that this dual wilding will be even useful in full combat and full range combat. But just if you have to clean out a small room or in close quarters combats. But still this pistols/revolvers must be of same brand and have the equal of balance to the other. So if people like to use a supressive fire pistol and one finisher pistol. They only need to choose a rifle in the other slot and a pistol in the other slot. Rifle for supressive fire and the pistol for finisher. Why would they go for supressive fire with a pistol any how ?

  13. #13
    Evidently I misunderstood your definition of duel weilding and firing, because that last post implied that you wished to be firing a rifle sized weapon with one hand and a pistol or some similar weapon with the other. Is this the case?

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by GruntOwner
    Evidently I misunderstood your definition of duel weilding and firing, because that last post implied that you wished to be firing a rifle sized weapon with one hand and a pistol or some similar weapon with the other. Is this the case?
    No, no... You have to have two same brand of *ONLY* two pistols/revolvers in both of slots. No rifle and pistol at the same time in slots. No balance at all.

    But if you have rifle in slot 1 and pistol in slot 2. You can change in hurry betwin those both.

  15. #15
    But then people will whine that they can't use their machine pistol which everyone seems to think would be a good idea and their high calibre pistol which is the result of a similar delusion being uncombinable. Some people may wish to vary their tactics with on hand wepaons, said machine pistol throwing them into cover whilst you bravely rambofy onwards with your more ammo efficient pistol dropping them as the brave the stream of lead. In the end there'd be more objections than simply not using it at all.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by GruntOwner
    But then people will whine that they can't use their machine pistol which everyone seems to think would be a good idea and their high calibre pistol which is the result of a similar delusion being uncombinable. Some people may wish to vary their tactics with on hand wepaons, said machine pistol throwing them into cover whilst you bravely rambofy onwards with your more ammo efficient pistol dropping them as the brave the stream of lead. In the end there'd be more objections than simply not using it at all.
    Machine pistol and high caliber pistol are not the same brand and have no balance to others. This will make aiming even difficult in real life shooting. So there is no risk this goes under the dual wild mode. You have to bring in two machine pistols or two high caliber pistols into slots to get them into dual wild mode. Even the aim should be different in dual wild, for different kind of pistols/revolvers depending to thier mechanics and caliber when set to dual wild mode.

    So, yes. If you choose to have a machine pistol in slot 1 and a high calibre pistol in slot 2. This will come up like singular and not in dual wild.

  17. #17
    That's exactly the problem, without the option of varying your hand layout people are going to have less options. They will start ranting that they want a different weapon in each hand and the number of complaints would be worse than if duel weilding were left out all together.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    24
    I say, scrap the DX's weapon belt system and limit what the character can bring to a more realistic level. Or allow the character to buy say a piece of coat which double as a place to store weapons or other piece of clothing that would benefit the character at some level. and i would love to see dual wielding, but in response to the person that said it in reality it would be impossible to balance the two guns, just add the dual wielding as skills, D&D style

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by GruntOwner
    If they need to make combat ultra real to involve players, then Eidos need to hire a new design team.
    Hope the emphasis won't be on just weapons. They're fun with FPS games, but Deus Ex is more than combat.

    What I like to see is more hacking, cracking and unlocking. Some with explosive timers and/or turret activation if you don't hurry (then add the misery of a foot patrol, as you try to duck and wait until the timer is reset). To me the hacking (or trying to find the passwords to hack into email or the defenses) is what made DX special, as it's not RPG or FPS, it's classic cyberpunk, though.

    Then add some more arms and what not sellers (if we could pick up extras to buy/sell/trade with such sellers, the better -- that's the RPG side that's appealing -- so we can customize our hardware [again, cyberpunk terminology and mindset]).

    And how about being able to get in and use a bot ourselves, to be a mech warrior for a while? Or to drive a car/helicopter to the next destination, even if it's a mindless 10 minute drive/flight with flashbacks that we learn more of JC's past (it's a good way to introduce more history even for new players, without getting even ADD/ADHD players bored)?

    This game has so much to offer.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by m72
    I say, scrap the DX's weapon belt system and limit what the character can bring to a more realistic level. Or allow the character to buy say a piece of coat which double as a place to store weapons or other piece of clothing that would benefit the character at some level. and i would love to see dual wielding, but in response to the person that said it in reality it would be impossible to balance the two guns, just add the dual wielding as skills, D&D style
    You have not been reading all my posts or you don't understand my idea. Weaponbelt is not the same with your inventory. Weaponbelt is only two open slots for weapon macros only, like key 1 and key 2. Like as gadgetbox is only for gadget macros, like lockpick, hacktool, wallmine, etc, etc and are placed on key 3 to key 9. Then you have inventory on "I" key like in DX1. The thing is that you can't set more then max two weapons like macros. Only key 1 and 2 is used for ONLY weapons. If you want to use another weapon you have to go into your inventory and place them into your weaponbelt (macros) or from weaponbelt place them into inventory. Like as gadgetbox works like the same, but don't take in any of your weapons like macros. Just only gadgets. But still you have more space in your inventory then only weaponbelt macros and gadgetbox macros together. With me ?

    If you talk about smaller inventory, it's a another thing. But i'am talking about something all different idea.

    Like i have told in posts before this one. Dual wild works in small places, like small rooms and close combat. But not so good in long distance (like not at all). Even the autoaim won't work and accury will be to wide and make it too far hard to hit anything at all. Then you can't even get dual wide to work with two different pistols/revolvers or with a rifle in the other hand. Must have some balance to it, like two pistols/revolvers of same type and with same attachments. Then it will go on and be only useful in small rooms and close range.

    I see the main figure in Deus Ex like as some kind of hero character. But not like a superhero, who can scroll trhow 10 different weapons under 10 nano seconds. Even he should have limits.

    + Grenades should even go under gadgets. Like if you have dual wide on or rifle and pistol in weaponbelt. You can still go for a grenade in your gadgetbox. But this action will put your weapons down in 2 seconds, becurse you go into your gadgetbox to pick up a grenade. But this will make that your weapons must be layed down and a grenade will come into your hand instead.
    Not like if you had choosen to have rifle in slot 1 in your weaponbelt and grenades in slot 2 in your weaponbelt. Here the grenade would be trhown instantly when hitting the 2 key and rifle still left in your other hand. You with me, this far ? Very simple controls and realistic.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by IceBallz
    Games have to be so real those ever can get, to have a story you can even belive in.
    I hasten to disagree. Half-Life, System Shock 2, Portal, Thief, Deus Ex, KOTOR, and their ilk weren't the most realistic games, not by a long shot, but you could believe in their stories because they maintained consistency with the the rules set down by their universe. In KOTOR, you could shoot lightning from your fingertips, or send people flying through the air by waving your hand, because that what the laws of the Star Wars universe says you can do. If, on the other hand, you had the power to turn people into a dancing, cartoon fish that sings 'Don't eat the yellow snow', you'd be pulled out of the story because it makes no sense compared to everything else.

    Also, the primary goal of a game is always to be fun. Aspects of reality should be added, removed, or modified, according to how much fun they add to the game. Things like eating, sleeping, drinking, and going to the toilet, whilst realistic, aren't all that fun, and so most games tend to avoid them. As a developer, you've got to ask yourself, is this something the player will enjoy doing? If not, ditch it, regardless of how 'real' it is.
    Trespasser is one of the best examples of a game that failed to ask that question.

  22. #22
    Ya i agree. There's no sense in reaching TOO far for realism. The weaponbelt idea that Iceballz put out there is original, but unnecessary. For instance, i dont remember a time in DX1 when i needed to "clear out a room." The combat was set up in such a way where you have to tactically approach a combat situation. Snipe, evade, hide, use Ballistic Protection, Invisibility, etc. If you really had to take down a group of enemies, throw a couple of gas grenades and take them out with a shottie while theyre coughing. And so on and so forth. Setting up weapon macros detracts from the action, and has you focussed more on what buttons to press on your mouse and keyboard. Remember, the whole point of the belt in DX1 was to quickly access some of the items you use OFTEN out of your inventory, so you dont have to press the 'I' key every two seconds to equip them. If theres one thing i would change about the inventory system, it would be carrying capacity. One of the VERY VERY FEW things i would take from DX2 is the ability to add inventory slots if you have the nano-muscle aug. Makes sense right? If youre stronger you can carry more.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by dimaf1985
    Ya i agree. There's no sense in reaching TOO far for realism. The weaponbelt idea that Iceballz put out there is original, but unnecessary. For instance, i dont remember a time in DX1 when i needed to "clear out a room." The combat was set up in such a way where you have to tactically approach a combat situation. Snipe, evade, hide, use Ballistic Protection, Invisibility, etc. If you really had to take down a group of enemies, throw a couple of gas grenades and take them out with a shottie while theyre coughing. And so on and so forth. Setting up weapon macros detracts from the action, and has you focussed more on what buttons to press on your mouse and keyboard. Remember, the whole point of the belt in DX1 was to quickly access some of the items you use OFTEN out of your inventory, so you dont have to press the 'I' key every two seconds to equip them. If theres one thing i would change about the inventory system, it would be carrying capacity. One of the VERY VERY FEW things i would take from DX2 is the ability to add inventory slots if you have the nano-muscle aug. Makes sense right? If youre stronger you can carry more.
    Still the left mouse button will be shoot and right mouse button will be interact. But like in DX1 you could first throw a gas grenade and then instant throw a frag grenade on them. But in my idea you can't in that speed limit, if not those both greandes is attached to your weaponbelt. But it would be really waste of grenades and you could not use a rifle or pistol.

    Just becurse you don't get handicap, it don't mean necessery that it's a bad idea. Well if you could carry a trailer on your back, it still mean that you can't just pull up 10 different weapons in 10 nano seconds ? I don't really understand what's the problem to have specific slots for weapons like as gadgets.

    Still i go for max two weapons in same time in inventory bar, not more and no less. If you don't go for fast throwing of grenades or dual wild. Still you have rest of your inventory bar left of 7 slots to your often used other eguipment, but no weapons here. Only grenades. But in this case your weapons will go down and this will make it slower to get a grenade up. But you still have the possibilty to take your hands to grenades, with easy macro key press.

    I would lay up my weaponbelt like macro key 1 pistol/revolver, macro key 2 rifle and macro key 3 for grenades, but in gadgetbox. So you see, you have still grenades there. But not in your weaponbelt, this will make your grenades take time to be pulled up from gadgetbelt. But if you want them come up faster. Change pistol to grenades instead, in weaponbelt and you get instant throw on grenades. You even don't need to hold them, before throwing then at enemy. Very easy and realistic in simple way. He still have only two arms and limits of weapons of choose to carry close to his arms.

    I actually want some kind of realism, even in cyberpunk games.

    P.S : And who said we are going for a mod of DX1 or DX2 here ?!? Not to be insulting, but i can't but it up more different. Sorry... We maybe will found places in DX3 there we have to clear out rooms, who knows ?

  24. #24
    I see what you're saying. You can pull out weapons in the weaponbelt faster, and have different combinations like a gun and a grenade. Or two grenades , but that would be a waste of the weaponbelt. You can still have grenades in the gadgets, but it would take more time to pull them out. Like i said it is an original idea, i just think it is too much. Every game that has a quick inventory system for the 1-9 buttons is there for the convenience of the player. They don't use it to add realism to the game, just make it easy to access inventory. I never said your idea was bad, just unnecessary. Maybe I'm wrong. If it is tweaked propely your idea could work. It is very original, still a very minor detail. I hope they get plot/setting/engine/characters/RPG elements/SDK worked out properly first, and then work on the finer points.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by dimaf1985
    I see what you're saying. You can pull out weapons in the weaponbelt faster, and have different combinations like a gun and a grenade. Or two grenades , but that would be a waste of the weaponbelt. You can still have grenades in the gadgets, but it would take more time to pull them out. Like i said it is an original idea, i just think it is too much. Every game that has a quick inventory system for the 1-9 buttons is there for the convenience of the player. They don't use it to add realism to the game, just make it easy to access inventory. I never said your idea was bad, just unnecessary. Maybe I'm wrong. If it is tweaked propely your idea could work. It is very original, still a very minor detail. I hope they get plot/setting/engine/characters/RPG elements/SDK worked out properly first, and then work on the finer points.
    Me too. Everything is just been started up, i belive. So there is not much to go on. The biggest danger for my idea is, if the game will be to much for consol controls.

    Damn i hate this consol freaks. They destroying everything with HUD, interface, controls, just everything that makes games to envolve. I think consol should have their own games and controls to them and PC have their own games and controls. Then we can really start to see new game ideas to pop-up to PC, aslike to consols. Well, we will see soon. What have been done, this far with Deus Ex 3. Damn, Deus Ex 3 could even be like World of Warcraft. If it keeps it only for PC only.

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