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Thread: Guns, Ammo, and Mods.

Guns, Ammo, and Mods.

  1. #1

    Guns, Ammo, and Mods.

    What are your ideas about the weapon system in Deus Ex 3, Should there be Universal ammo? Should there be permanent mods and what type of mods should there be? Should there be secret weapons, and what types of weapons should there be?

    As far as I can tell everyone here hates universal ammo…Except for me
    I always liked universal for some reason . Some say that it takes the enjoyment out of finding ammo, but I found it to be a great idea. In other games every time I found ammo for a gun that I really liked the ammo was hella rare. I never liked that I would always save that ammo up for a special occasion, that never came. And anyways it’s the future of course there’s going to be universal ammo, there’s even a book that explains how it works.

    I didnt mind about permanent mods never really bothered me. What I would like to see however would be kick *** mods, like the glass disintegrator mod thing were you shoot a window and it just melts causing no noise.

    And there should defiantly secret weapons , I loved that in IW. The Smg that shoots spider bots instead of grenades, or the hellfire bolt caster instead of poison shoots fire darts, and my favorite the Toxic Blade enough said.

    These are some topics that should be thought through.

  2. #2
    anybody advocating universal ammo should be banned. and each weapon should have multiple ammo types. One of the things from IW that I did like was the Mod and Alt fire mode. Mods like the glass destabilizer that did something better than just raise accuracy or range was good. as was smoke grenades and flash bombs.

  3. #3
    Should be just like Deus Ex with more depth. Also once you beat the game and play again there are new weapons unlocked.

  4. #4
    Ok I kinda like the universal ammo to a point but once it was gone what do you use........... I think there should be more then one type of universal ammo. One that will just work like IW then one that explodes and one for gas. I think they need to come out with an ammo bag so you can carry more ammo.

  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by Unstoppable
    Should be just like Deus Ex with more depth. Also once you beat the game and play again there are new weapons unlocked.
    Unlocked?????? This is Deus Ex, not some crappy arcade racegame!!

    Unlocking is very unrealistic and many people don't want it. If there are unlockable things people feel almost forced to play the game again. DX doen't need that, it's such a great game that people will play it again anyway.
    But, when you play the game again, the chance that you'll find a certain weapon earlier on in the game is bigger. So almost the same result but without the downsides of unlockable stuff.

  6. #6
    My favourite weapon in DX:IW was the incendiary dart gun.
    Mwa ha haaaa.

  7. #7
    universal amo suks.

  8. #8
    Anyhoo, universal ammo is okay when used properly to cut down on pickup bloat.
    I don't think 6 different guns, with 3 ammo choices each, should use a total of 18 different types of ammo altogether. But I have no idea how broad the weapon choices will be in DX3.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by ikenstein
    universal amo suks.
    well said. pretty stupid to have my pistol using the same ammo as my flamethrower. and to balance it all out, the flamethrower had to use half a clip at a time.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by O.m.a.r
    In other games every time I found ammo for a gun that I really liked the ammo was hella rare. I never liked that I would always save that ammo up for a special occasion, that never came.
    The perceive value of something is a direct consequence of its rarity. Rockets and 30.06 ammo in DX were valuable, at least in the beginning of the game, universal ammo clips in IW were not. Because of that, a pack of rockets could be viewed as a reward, but not a clip of universal ammos.

    In order to be rewarding, a game MUST be frustrating (to a point, of course).


    Originally Posted by Unstoppable
    Also once you beat the game and play again there are new weapons unlocked.
    Worst... idea... ever!

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Papy
    The perceive value of something is a direct consequence of its rarity. Rockets and 30.06 ammo in DX were valuable, at least in the beginning of the game, universal ammo clips in IW were not. Because of that, a pack of rockets could be viewed as a reward, but not a clip of universal ammos.

    In order to be rewarding, a game MUST be frustrating (to a point, of course).
    and in the end of the game it was HE, WP rockets and plasma ammo.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by jd10013
    well said. pretty stupid to have my pistol using the same ammo as my flamethrower. and to balance it all out, the flamethrower had to use half a clip at a time.
    Ok good point.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Unstoppable
    Should be just like Deus Ex with more depth. Also once you beat the game and play again there are new weapons unlocked.
    You must be kidding...

  14. #14
    I did like the variety of ammo in the original, the weaponmods too.
    One of the many things that make DX1 so nice is the ability to tweak and edit soo much (IMHO)

    Just ONE thing:

    Let there be a superweapon !
    Something like the tac-cannon in crysis

  15. #15
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    The dragon's toothe sword was a superweapon, but it was still a challenge to finish the game with. It was a melee weapon, so a guy with a sniperrifle could still easily kill you. And the MIB and WIB blew up once you'de killed them, so you had to use a different weapon on them.
    It was a superweapon, but the game was still a challenge. And that's very well done by the devs.

  16. #16
    Sometimes because I ran out of ammo for a weapon I was forced to try another weapon...this actually enhanced my game experience because I had to try new methods. In DX2, when I ran out of universal ammo suddenly all my non-melee weapon options were gone; this was frustrating in a bad way.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by RedFeather1975
    Anyhoo, universal ammo is okay when used properly to cut down on pickup bloat.
    I don't think 6 different guns, with 3 ammo choices each, should use a total of 18 different types of ammo altogether. But I have no idea how broad the weapon choices will be in DX3.
    Yea maybe your right but it was just a thought of mine but i still think you should be able to get more ammo with an ammo bag or something so dont have to be so stingy on the ammo

  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by rhalibus
    Sometimes because I ran out of ammo for a weapon I was forced to try another weapon...this actually enhanced my game experience because I had to try new methods. In DX2, when I ran out of universal ammo suddenly all my non-melee weapon options were gone; this was frustrating in a bad way.
    I have the same feelings on this; I felt more immersion in the game play having to rationalise which weapon to use for a particular nasty situation (and to my mind I think I relied more of my bio-mods to get me though when ammo was in short supply for the weapons I was carrying). I was even more gratified by the payout of finding ammo for my favourite weapons (namely the hand-dart launcher), even before leaving a zone I would drop whatever weapon seemed to be in large supply in a particular area and return to pick-up a weapon I had dropped before but now had found ammo for. So yes the actual THINKING about the game is what made it great and in my opinion this with great storyline is what made it truly immersing.

    I was quite dismayed with DX2's single ammo tech, yes it may be true that the studio made the decision perhaps because of time constraints, and the honestly wanted to dedicate what resources they had to making something else less S-to-the-T - but I digress.
    I found it rather implausible however that one ammo could be used across a range of seemingly conventional weaponry which even today is dated - come on, it be the future. If there has to be one common ammo type then great I'm on board, on ONE CONDITION.
    Somebody has got to come up with totally unique and plausible ways to kill stuff in a variety of ways from one logical RESOURCE; I can only assume some radioactive element like uranium may be a good start:
    1. Squash into bolts = crossbow
    2. Power a energy phaser = pistol
    3. Larger volume could power concentrating long range beam = Sniper
    4. Mix with other nasty compounds and glue on a stick = grenade
    (I mean hell the most fun about DX was the modding - BUILD WEAPONS from scrap, have basic bake-a-gun logic in the game)

    For further inspiration about weapons systems everyone please see BioShock

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by gamer0004
    The dragon's toothe sword was a superweapon, but it was still a challenge to finish the game with. It was a melee weapon, so a guy with a sniperrifle could still easily kill you. And the MIB and WIB blew up once you'de killed them, so you had to use a different weapon on them.
    It was a superweapon, but the game was still a challenge. And that's very well done by the devs.
    The mini-crossbow is a superweapon, Paul said so!

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by INSAN3
    II found it rather implausible however that one ammo could be used across a range of seemingly conventional weaponry which even today is dated - come on, it be the future.
    I can look past the realism, it is a game after all, and game play should never be sacrificed in the name of realism. what bother me about the universal ammo was that it limited what weapons you could use. for example, if you want to have fun with the rocket launcher an kill some people that way, you'd burn through your ammo real fast. But you weren't just burning through your rockets, you were burning through ALL you ammo. no more smg, no more pistol, no more crossbow. you were done. What I described is what killed the one good thing they did with the weapons, the Alt fire mode. smoke bombs, flash bombs, and spider bots from the widow maker smg were great ideas, but used far to much ammo to be used or played around with.


    For further inspiration about weapons systems everyone please see BioShock
    yea, they did pretty good there. the only criticism I would make is there weren't enough upgrades. I preferred the way DX an SS did it where you could apply to any weapon you wanted.

  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by jd10013
    I can look past the realism, it is a game after all, and game play should never be sacrificed in the name of realism. what bother me about the universal ammo was that it limited what weapons you could use. for example, if you want to have fun with the rocket launcher an kill some people that way, you'd burn through your ammo real fast. But you weren't just burning through your rockets, you were burning through ALL you ammo. no more smg, no more pistol, no more crossbow. you were done. What I described is what killed the one good thing they did with the weapons, the Alt fire mode. smoke bombs, flash bombs, and spider bots from the widow maker smg were great ideas, but used far to much ammo to be used or played around with.

    yea, they did pretty good there. the only criticism I would make is there weren't enough upgrades. I preferred the way DX an SS did it where you could apply to any weapon you wanted.
    Actually I definately agree there, you couldn't just pick-up a random weapon, shoot something and then drop it; like you said you burn through all your ammo. Without a doubt the level of upgrade-ability of weapons was well ahead of it's time in DX; again I'd be keen to see more varied upgrades that can be applied to the weapons system (even some hybrid upgrades for both character and weapon that interface with each other, such as auto-targeting which can be a free upgrade for console gamers?)

  22. #22
    stun prod and tranque darts -

    i fell the stun prod and the tranque darts were too basic, once the victem was rendered unconcious. it effectively killed them.

    i would liked to have seen the stunned opponent get up after a period depending on how many darts were used.

    so once stunned you had the choice of whether to

    1. move on knowing he will soon wake up and maybe attack you or set of an alarm, he may also expose you to the authorities for who you are and what you are doing - depending on the plot and enemy at that point.

    2. fill him with tranque darts knowing he wont be getting up for a long/safer period but it will cost you more darts/prod charges.

    3. shoot him in the head while hes unconcious. again more resource costs and it may alert the other guards nearby.

    i believe the new method increases tension and adds choices.

  23. #23
    I very liked to sneak with elctro prod to enemies and finish them in 1 second with crowbar.


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    or: Take your best shoot.
    or: I am gonna clean the place out.

  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by pauldenton
    stun prod and tranque darts -

    i fell the stun prod and the tranque darts were too basic, once the victem was rendered unconcious. it effectively killed them.

    i would liked to have seen the stunned opponent get up after a period depending on how many darts were used.

    so once stunned you had the choice of whether to

    1. move on knowing he will soon wake up and maybe attack you or set of an alarm, he may also expose you to the authorities for who you are and what you are doing - depending on the plot and enemy at that point.

    2. fill him with tranque darts knowing he wont be getting up for a long/safer period but it will cost you more darts/prod charges.

    3. shoot him in the head while hes unconcious. again more resource costs and it may alert the other guards nearby.

    i believe the new method increases tension and adds choices.
    I was so glad that DX was not like other games, because once you had shot him with tranq darts, he remained unconscious. Other games try desperately to "increase tension and adds choice", but in these kind of situations it will only be annoying. I really wouldn't want a system like that. It's like paying to park your car. How long are you going to be away? 2 hours? 3? Maybe the whole day?
    It ends up with you rushing back to the car because you had paid to little and you have to pay some extre, or being annoyed because you'd paid too much.
    "Damn, I wasted 2 darts on him and it only took me 2 minutes to get out" or "Holy " *BOOM*"
    "Damn, I should've used another dart on that guy with the GEP run."

    Besides, in these kind of situations, I wouldn't go waste my darts. I'd just tie up the guy. But in most games you can't do that, so it's pretty annoying, not only because you almost always waste darts or get shot because you used to little darts, but because you can't do what you'd want to do in a situation like that either.

  25. #25
    if you dont want them to get back up then stab them, how hard is that?

    but at least there would be some practical difference between killing them and stunning them.

    there could be times when just stunning someone for a short period could work for you,

    such as the monsters or a maniac.

    once you get past them while they are unconcious, they could then wake up and kill your following enemys, while you are in a safe place.

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