Thread: The Protagonist (You)

The Protagonist (You)

  1. #51
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    Originally Posted by Loneranger
    Contradiction alert.

    JC Denton:
    http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...spector_02.gif

    Albert Wesker
    http://www.geocities.com/eelbrecht/i...io0_wesker.jpg

    Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much all Resident Evil games, or at least 0-3 are set at night. Albert Wesker doesn't appear in every one, but 1 is definitely set at night.
    It's not a contradiction at all,play code veronica and watch what happens when his glasses come off. B A D A S S. Plus wesker isn't a little errand boy running around in leather, He's the one calling the shots...only his errand boy is a chick who isn't above infiltrating places in a red dress. (I guess he mixes business with pleasure.)

    and laputin man...have you read or seen any cyberpunk work other than blade runner? because that seems to be your go-to. So what if he wore a trenchcoat, even in the movie he was one of the few (if only,I can't remember everyones dress too well,it's been a few years since I've seen it) that was. Personally I find trenchcoats pointless,tacky,and ugly and sunglasses at night competely pointless. Now as far as the muslims comment, that's just ignorant since most people that wear "turbans" in the west are in fact sikhs, but hey, you wanna be a bigot, you go right ahead.
    Stop trying to defend your leather clad fantasy boy, laputin.

    and pKp I'm kind of afraid to ask this but...WHY do you wear a trenchcoat?
    (and p.s. I believe I was the first person in this post to say customizable appearance.)

  2. #52
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    Rolleyes

    Originally Posted by AgnosticJive
    It's not a contradiction at all,play code veronica and watch what happens when his glasses come off. B A D A S S. Plus wesker isn't a little errand boy running around in leather, He's the one calling the shots...only his errand boy is a chick who isn't above infiltrating places in a red dress. (I guess he mixes business with pleasure.)

    and laputin man...have you read or seen any cyberpunk work other than blade runner? because that seems to be your go-to. So what if he wore a trenchcoat, even in the movie he was one of the few (if only,I can't remember everyones dress too well,it's been a few years since I've seen it) that was. Personally I find trenchcoats pointless,tacky,and ugly and sunglasses at night competely pointless. Now as far as the muslims comment, that's just ignorant since most people that wear "turbans" in the west are in fact sikhs, but hey, you wanna be a bigot, you go right ahead.
    Stop trying to defend your leather clad fantasy boy, laputin.

    and pKp I'm kind of afraid to ask this but...WHY do you wear a trenchcoat?
    (and p.s. I believe I was the first person in this post to say customizable appearance.)
    Give up already, pKp and Loneranger! It's *** obvious that you are stupid - because you like JC?! And if that wasn't enough, you think sunglasses and trenchcoats are associated with some sort of cool... All those rockers and motorcycle-gangs like the Hells Angels are just emo-boys with leather fantasies, just like all those Trenchcoat-wearing (neo)noir detectives and private eyes, revenge seeking lone rangers in the westerns, Triad-bosses, Yakuza-killers or Cyberpunk-protagonists are. Not to mention all those fools wearing sunglasses like flying aces, drill seargeants, rockstars, Cyberpunk-protagonists or Hitmen... How stupid is that? <- note that this is the emoticon for the BBCode
    Code:
    :cool:
    LOL

    "Hiding one's eyes has implications in face-to-face communication: It can hide weeping, being one of the signs of mourning, makes eye contact impossible which can be intimidating, like in the stereotype of the guardian of a chain gang as depicted in Cool Hand Luke, or can show detachment, which is considered cool in some circles."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunglasses#Uses

    and p.s. I believe I was the first person in this post to say customizable appearance.
    Whoa...that's impressive! Could you also be the first to say "I quit working up people for not sharing my strange perception of what is cool and what is not." That would be awesome!

  3. #53
    I have a more logical explanation for the trenchcoat! JC wears it to conceal all of that stuff he's lugging around, like four assault weapons, a couple of pistols, a knife and crowbar, some gadgets, some food items, tons of ammo, that nifty nano-key ring, and the fire extinguisher (as unrealistic as it is to be packing all of that). The sunglasses are probably just a fashion statement; he was only 23 at the time, so it's not over the top to assume he is still influenced by the stereotypical "cool" images. And maybe Alex was influenced by the spiky hair image?

  4. #54
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    Yeah, of course they serve a purpose, too. All those anti-hero characters that have already been mentioned are rarely the kind of people who dress up for the sake of the look. The stereotype is a result of those guys being badass/cool. I've already said, that I believe that JC wears sunglasses to hide his augmented eyes.

  5. #55
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    to fox:
    I never said I dislike JC,I dislike his style (or more precisely the style that was given to him.) As far as all of the things you listed in an attempt to try to make it seem like it makes sense...well rockers in leather jackets look like pansies. Now people that ride motorcycles actually have a use for leather! imagine that! and glorifying motorcycle gangs is just sad because they are the type of people that would kick your ass just for looking at them for no other reason then you're not one of them. Now aside from decker and CLASSIC noir references, I've seen no substantial proof of trenchcoats as the norm (and just for reference, JC wasn't a detective, he was a solider in an anti-terrorist terrorist organization.) Westerns...the man with no name? the definitive anti-hero lone ranger...let's see,lambskin vest check,cowboy hat check,serape poncho check,trenchcoat...must have missed it. Triad bosses,hell neither gordon nor max wore trenchcoats,yakuza is more renowned for their tattoos and variety of dress,not all running around in coats. Now for the sunglasses...flying aces wearing aviators during the day! WHAT A NOVEL CONCEPT! drill sargents wearing sunglasses during the day,sun blazing,troops in tow! I can't think of a single reason for that one! rockstars...well,see unlike running around with blue eyes,running around with dilated eyes is a dead giveaway you're way too blasted (illegally most likely) and eye dilation has that nasty side effect of making lights unnaturally bright. Now as for the hitmen one...well,I've never really seen any hitmen,they're usually either unseen or blend in,wearing sunglasses in a setting where nobody else is,well,that's just a dead giveaway so they can't be too good at their jobs. Also? there's no need to hide your eyes when you've been created as a cold blooded killer. Looking someone in the eyes without a sign of pity or remorse as you're about to kill them is a tad more intimidating then someone hiding behind a shield...at least in some circles.
    You seem to think pretty highly of gangs which is a bit disturbing considering the total lack of decency and morality they possess. Also no need to be antagonistic for me stating that the person arguing with me also agreed with what I think was the first thing I said.

    Originally Posted by -=fox=-
    How stupid is that?
    Pretty stupid.

  6. #56
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    Originally Posted by Fuzzman
    I have a more logical explanation for the trenchcoat! JC wears it to conceal all of that stuff he's lugging around, like four assault weapons, a couple of pistols, a knife and crowbar, some gadgets, some food items, tons of ammo, that nifty nano-key ring, and the fire extinguisher (as unrealistic as it is to be packing all of that). The sunglasses are probably just a fashion statement; he was only 23 at the time, so it's not over the top to assume he is still influenced by the stereotypical "cool" images. And maybe Alex was influenced by the spiky hair image?
    He can fit a rocket launcher three quarters his size...AND a plasma rifle which is also three quarters his size in the inventory with room to spare. Something tells me walking around with two items equal to more than your entire mass won't exactly fit under a coat. or on you. I don't think it's to make it look realistic...

  7. #57
    Originally Posted by AgnosticJive
    He can fit a rocket launcher three quarters his size...AND a plasma rifle which is also three quarters his size in the inventory with room to spare. Something tells me walking around with two items equal to more than your entire mass won't exactly fit under a coat. or on you. I don't think it's to make it look realistic...
    It is common knowledge that most of the larger weapons in Deus Ex were developed using MRT (Mass Reduction Technology) which was developed almost at the exact same time as the augmentation technology in Deus Ex. In fact there are many other games I've played that also used MRT in one form or another. This technology allows rather large weapons to take up considerably less space when not in use. Most MR technology reduces mass by at least 70% -- some even up to 90% depending on the device. It would be easy to fit many of the larger weapons mentioned in this thread under JC's trench coat without any problem whatsoever.

  8. #58
    Originally Posted by AgnosticJive

    and laputin man...have you read or seen any cyberpunk work other than blade runner? because that seems to be your go-to. So what if he wore a trenchcoat, even in the movie he was one of the few (if only,I can't remember everyones dress too well,it's been a few years since I've seen it) that was. Personally I find trenchcoats pointless,tacky,and ugly and sunglasses at night competely pointless. Now as far as the muslims comment, that's just ignorant since most people that wear "turbans" in the west are in fact sikhs, but hey, you wanna be a bigot, you go right ahead.
    Stop trying to defend your leather clad fantasy boy, laputin.


    Blade Runner is my "go-to" because it is popular and has a main character that wears a trenchcoat. Not only that but there are things in the game that were inspired by that film. Or at least that is what mentioned in some reviews.

    Oh, pardon me for not brushing up on my eastern religions and thier fashions. But getting that mixed up must obviously make me a biggot, and you irrationally thinking that some one walking down the street in a trench coat is about to "shoot up a school" is what? And speaking of fantasies... wasn't it you that brought up flashing and genitals?

    And no you obviously don't just dislike these articles of clothing, you have some sort of deep seeded hatred towards them. Some one must have done something to you while wearing a trench coat at a very young age. Do you think if I handed you a dolly that you could point out where the bad man touched you?

  9. #59
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    Originally Posted by Laputin Man
    And no you obviously don't just dislike these articles of clothing, you have some sort of deep seeded hatred towards them. Some one must have done something to you while wearing a trench coat at a very young age. Do you think if I handed you a dolly that you could point out where the bad man touched you?
    lol,I hate you...I was thinking about making a comment like that earlier but I decided against it since it's just too gay.
    But seriously, leather and big clothing isn't "tough" (getting back to the original point.) and just because some other works may or may not have used certain styles of clothing the point is there is no definitive cyberpunk style of dress. to sum it up best, cyberpunk is basically known for it's technology and settings (i.e. "city lights at night") The main issue is,I don't really see how they can work out customizable clothing in a game like this. I mean,think about it:
    "Good work on your last mission JC, here's 1000 plus a 250 op bonus...why don't you go to the unatco clothing store and pick up some new clothes before you report to Agent Navarre?"

    ...doesn't seem like it would work. Also assuming this is a true dystopian future something tells me the only place you would be able to buy clothes would be the megacorporation McWalSoftMart (a subsidiary of News Corp.)...and I'd rather run around naked then wear any crap from anything that was even remotely a walmart.

  10. #60
    Originally Posted by AgnosticJive
    lol,I hate you...I was thinking about making a comment like that earlier but I decided against it since it's just too gay.
    But seriously, leather and big clothing isn't "tough" (getting back to the original point.) and just because some other works may or may not have used certain styles of clothing the point is there is no definitive cyberpunk style of dress. to sum it up best, cyberpunk is basically known for it's technology and settings (i.e. "city lights at night") The main issue is,I don't really see how they can work out customizable clothing in a game like this. I mean,think about it:
    "Good work on your last mission JC, here's 1000 plus a 250 op bonus...why don't you go to the unatco clothing store and pick up some new clothes before you report to Agent Navarre?"

    ...doesn't seem like it would work. Also assuming this is a true dystopian future something tells me the only place you would be able to buy clothes would be the megacorporation McWalSoftMart (a subsidiary of News Corp.)...and I'd rather run around naked then wear any crap from anything that was even remotely a walmart.
    Ha, back at ya And no, instead you went with the leather clad fantasy boy comment... much less gay

    Ahhh, we can finally get back to talking like civilized people again? Great, and as for the different outfit idea that YOU had. I think that it is a great idea and it could work easily if you are just given the option of choosing different outfits from the very beggining of the game when you make the character. Being able to buy clothes through out the game ala GTA would be pretty lame, I agree.

    And yes cyberpunk doesn't really have a "look" or at least not a definitive one. As long as they make different outfits some what dark... or at least some of them. They could have things like just body armor, trench coat, a suit and tie, etc. As long as it fits in with the game world.

  11. #61
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    Originally Posted by Laputin Man
    Ahhh, we can finally get back to talking like civilized people again?
    Hopefully.

  12. #62
    Originally Posted by Laputin Man
    That relates to the story and the main character of JC a lot in Deus Ex. Here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk. If you read on it goes in depth about the cyber punk genre and what that all entails. Deus Ex was a cyber punk themed game. It meets all the requirements.
    Perhaps, although it's a stupid term, but it does not meet the visual requirements. Point to one level in Deus Ex that can be said to take inspiration from the Cyberpunk genre.

    I assume you'll point to Hong Kong, in which case - no, because it's based on the real life location. Just like practically every other location in the game - with a few exceptions which are far more accurately described as Sci-Fi than Cyberpunk. Having a guy in a trenchcoat doesn't make up for the fact that entire chapters of the game show no similarity to Cyberpunk - for example New York and Paris.

  13. #63
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    *ignores Dave W's comment*

  14. #64
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    Cyberpunk or not, JC Denton/Paul Denton/Walton Simons all had an iconic look for the series and that shouldn't be abandoned. The last thing we need is more generic, mix-in-with-the-crowd Military suits or Sci-Fi mumbo jumbo a'la Invisible War.

    Visible Augs should return as well. There's nothing quite like seeing the circuit-boardish glow of blue on the surface of someone's skin.

  15. #65
    Originally Posted by Dave W
    Perhaps, although it's a stupid term, but it does not meet the visual requirements. Point to one level in Deus Ex that can be said to take inspiration from the Cyberpunk genre.

    I assume you'll point to Hong Kong, in which case - no, because it's based on the real life location. Just like practically every other location in the game - with a few exceptions which are far more accurately described as Sci-Fi than Cyberpunk. Having a guy in a trenchcoat doesn't make up for the fact that entire chapters of the game show no similarity to Cyberpunk - for example New York and Paris.

    Taken from the link I gave, in cyberpunk stories:

    "The settings are usually post-industrial dystopias"

    and "They tend to be set in a near-future Earth, rather than the far future settings or galactic vistas found in novels like Isaac Asimov's Foundation or Frank Herbert's Dune."

    It is set in a near future earth, therefore the locations don't look all that different from locations today.


    Point to one level in Deus Ex that can be said to take inspiration from the Cyberpunk genre.

    I assume you'll point to Hong Kong
    ..... Hong Kong. Really, it is what most reviewers refered to when they made comparisons to Blade Runner. But even if that isn't the case a cyberpunk setting is set in near future earth, usually in some sort of dystopian society. So according to that, it is in a cyberpunk setting.

  16. #66

    Protagonist

    Seriously guys, I know a great man once said "Man can argue for centuries and still not come to a conclusion" but it doesn't mean we have to do it lol. Everything here appears to be a matter of opinion, and if one person doesn't happen to agree with you then tough cookie no need to argue or "Debate" or whatever about it. Well apparently there is.
    Anyways, it doesn't matter what we say in these forums, it's hardly like the devs. will listen. Why you ask? Because they'd be making the same mistake as they did with IW. They tried so hard to appeal to the tastes of the fans and make it simpler that everyone just ended up hating it (Well I don't, and obviously not everyone hated it, but it is, again, a matter of opinion).

  17. #67
    What should the character be like? Imo he should be older than JC and Alex, more like mid-30ish to have some life experience. And I don't want him to look like a random sunnyboy like Alex either. Yet I have no idea what his clothing style should be like.

  18. #68
    Originally Posted by -=fox=-
    *ignores Dave W's comment*
    Real mature. Fella you are either going to have to accept that people disagree with you (raises hand) or go find something else to do. Nothing good will comeof this kind of post...

    Originally Posted by WhatsHisFace
    Cyberpunk or not, JC Denton/Paul Denton/Walton Simons all had an iconic look for the series and that shouldn't be abandoned. The last thing we need is more generic, mix-in-with-the-crowd Military suits or Sci-Fi mumbo jumbo a'la Invisible War.

    Visible Augs should return as well. There's nothing quite like seeing the circuit-boardish glow of blue on the surface of someone's skin.
    Again, if this is set after IW (most likely IMHO) then augs will nto be visible. NTech augs would be completely non-visible on the skin. Also labelling something as mumbo-jumbo just makes me think you failed to understand it. IW presented a much more believable avatar than DX as far as I am concerned...

  19. #69
    The only information we have about a time period for the game points to 2072, and it would make sense for this game to be a prequel because DX2's ending(s) were very much mutually exclusive, unlike DX, and writing a sequel to DX2 would be probably be very difficult to pull off without completely losing the cyberpunk atmosphere. Making a prequel would be a nice way around that, and the player could still have some form of augs because although JC was one of the first nano-augmented agents in 2052, other information from the developers (http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/...2/dxbible/dx2/) suggests that mechanical/cybernetic augmentations were relatively commonplace, and that people with Mechanical Augmentations were 'second class citizens'.

    So.. there's that (sorry to go off topic).
    Being able to choose your physique and appearance (and hell, why not gender) at the start would be awesome. Also having the ability to alter your appearance would be cool, but it should be done with augmentations and body armor, not trips to Bananna Republic. Your playing style should reflect your characters appearance (Anna Navarre v. Gunther Hermann).

    In my opinion Alex D was too streamlined for a cyberpunk game. I think JC was definitely badass, but also a little on the bulky side. A look somewhere in between would be cool. Personally I think a more militarized version of the Max-Payne kind of look would be cool ("commando casual" if you will).


    On the topic of trenchcoats, some kind of coat would be practical both for weapons concealment purposes and to protect against unpredictable weather patterns due to extreme climate change. Having the hero run around in another jumpsuit or a t-shirt would be fairly genre/mood breaking. Still, I agree that a massive black trenchcoat (different from the sleeker and smaller Rick Deckard/Sam Spade type) is also pretty out there in the Hot Topic/Matrix-extra-wannabe zone. Although JC was fairly baddass, I think we should let the trenchcoat stay as JC's thing and have a new original looking protagonist.

  20. #70
    This is gettign tedious and I am withdrawing from future nonesense discussions about this after this post.

    Get over yourselves people. Seriously. You are all building youselves up to hate this game already. You are getting all wrapped up in what YOU think HAS to be there and I will guarantee you all that you are wrong (hold onto this post for when the anouncements are made).

    This is NOT a remake of DX. You will not see people who look like JC, Gunther or Anna. You simply wont.

    There is FAR more evidence in the trailer for this being a sequal than a prequal and beyond that there is more logic to it too. How many games are actually prequals? It's a desperately rare thing, especially on the PC platform. I cannot see anything besides what is obviously a FLASHBACK that would indicate anything of the events BEFORE DX 1/2. Nothing. Not a thing. The references to Emile also point to something beyond what we have seen in DX 1/2. All those flashbacks are simply trying to show you what led up to teh point of that fetus being created - that is just blatantly obvious from the way the video is shot.

    All this talk of Noir and Cyberpunk and dress sense is bloody pointless too. For starters there is so little else to compare it to. Cyberpunk is mostly a written word genre. Most of the other stuff quoted such as Ghost in the Shell is simply too high tech for Cyberpunk (taking, as you should, Neuromancer as your basis). You are therefore comparing a game with its own style to your own imagings of how Cyberpunk should look: you will argue round and round for ever, guys...

    Rgiht. Done.

    /me washes hands of pointless arguing...

  21. #71
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    Originally Posted by StormFront
    Real mature. Fella you are either going to have to accept that people disagree with you (raises hand) or go find something else to do. Nothing good will comeof this kind of post...
    Dude, I already had this discussion with DaveW ( http://offtopicproductions.com/forum...pic.php?t=1190 ). I was about to argue with him and AgnosticJive again but this leads to nowhere other than getting me pissed off again - so I leave it to that. You should really take a look at your own posts before telling others how to behave...

  22. #72
    Well that is certainly one way to interpret that trailer. I don't envy the writer that would have to integrate those three endings into one beginning though. Still, I guess it could be done.

    Not to be too totally off-topic, but has anyone else noticed that people only wash their hands on a forum when they're angry? I do it because it's just good hygiene.

    Does anyone else have any radically different ideas about what the protagonist should look like in the sequel? I find it hard to believe the whole discussion comes down to whether or not trenchcoats are 'gay'.

  23. #73

    Protagonist

    Originally Posted by Stapledon
    Well that is certainly one way to interpret that trailer. I don't envy the writer that would have to integrate those three endings into one beginning though. Still, I guess it could be done.

    Not to be too totally off-topic, but has anyone else noticed that people only wash their hands on a forum when they're angry? I do it because it's just good hygiene.

    Does anyone else have any radically different ideas about what the protagonist should look like in the sequel? I find it hard to believe the whole discussion comes down to whether or not trenchcoats are 'gay'.
    I hate to say it, but posting something like this is just baiting for people to repeat the last few pages. I mean that's what the topic was meant to be about in the first place, not like you say, about weather trench coats are gay or not or what exactly cyber punk is. I am really sick of having to listen to that crap.

    And by washing his hands I hope you realize he is trying to say that this argument is so full of crap that after having his hands inside it's ass for this long he is going to wash his hands and go home :P

  24. #74
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    I hope it is a prequel, but a sequel would be good too as long as they work everything out very well.
    And (if it is a sequel), why integrate all of the four endings? DX:IW integrated all the endings of part I and that was really stupid. When I first played IW I was thinking "Which ending did the devs choose for this game" and I found out they used all THREE the endings I couldn't even believe it. In DX it is clear that when you blow A-51 up you can't integrate with Helios. But according to Iw you could... Yeah right.

  25. #75
    Yeah, I guess you're right. Still it did give a nice 'neutral' beginning to the game.

    and... yeah, you're right. Sorry. I'll reign in the snarkiness a bit.

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