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Thread: Falsified review scores on main K&L Page? (merged)

Falsified review scores on main K&L Page? (merged)

  1. #26
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    Hmm just noticed its only on the US site. The UK site doesnt list those sites.

    I always assumed the language select was for just that, make the page in french, german etc, didnt think UK and US would be different.

  2. #27
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    Hmm, so only the US site saw fit to either false advertise 5 star reviews, so use 5 stars as bullet points which is a really really ignorant idea....wait...nope, just checked the UK site and they have their own fabricated 5 star reviews from Xbox 360 (I had no idea a console could review its games) and Xbox 360 Magazine featuring quotes not actually found in the review of OXM either...shocker eh? Well, I am running on 4 hours of sleep, and its 4am here, so its time for me to hit the sack. Ill be back on for the latest on this thread in the afternoon. Night

  3. #28
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    Originally Posted by EEEMasta
    Hmm, so only the US site saw fit to either false advertise 5 star reviews, so use 5 stars as bullet points which is a really really ignorant idea....wait...nope, just checked the UK site and they have their own fabricated 5 star reviews from Xbox 360 (I had no idea a console could review its games) and Xbox 360 Magazine featuring quotes not actually found in the review of OXM either...shocker eh? Well, I am running on 4 hours of sleep, and its 4am here, so its time for me to hit the sack. Ill be back on for the latest on this thread in the afternoon. Night
    I am getting those checked. there are many different mags out there etc.

  4. #29
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    Yeah, especially when we are talking about UK and US magazines of which there are many exclusive to the US as well as many exclusive to the UK. Thanks for being so helpful mods. You are doing far more than I expected. Ill check back in tmw

  5. #30
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    Originally Posted by EEEMasta
    Yeah, especially when we are talking about UK and US magazines of which there are many exclusive to the US as well as many exclusive to the UK. Thanks for being so helpful mods. You are doing far more than I expected. Ill check back in tmw
    I aint a marketing person. I aint in PR. I am talking about my `personal` opinions/thoughts here.

    Someone mentioned about Sony and the problem they had. They had invented a person and had them review their movies, they got into trouble for it, and rightly so.

    However the `practise` of taking a lengthy paragraph and extracting the sentence that reads the best is definitely still happening on movie posters even now. I personally think its cheeky, but its not illegal. If someone says something is "the best movie i've seen in the last 24 hours", there is nothing stopping someone saying they said it was "the best movie i've seen....". The "..." being the `more was said, but you gotta find out that for yourself` bit.

    Lots of people will say its wrong, but you'll find thats why a lot of reviewers are very careful now NOT to open themselves to quotes like that (altho people always find a way to find the words they want)

    Update - Site has been amended removing the confusing stars

  6. #31
    I feel sorry for the moderators of this forum. With all of this crap going around I'm sure they have their work cut out for them.

    That said,

    this game, eidos, cnet. You guys are an insult to the gaming industry. However, I'm sure you don't care. As long as you marketers and managers have a company to feed off of for cash you'll be fine. If the company goes in the tank, who cares, you got away with your own personal stash. You can't survive on crap software and lied reviews forever. What the hell are you thinking?

  7. #32
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    Originally Posted by skeetermeat
    I feel sorry for the moderators of this forum. With all of this crap going around I'm sure they have their work cut out for them.

    That said,

    this game, eidos, cnet. You guys are an insult to the gaming industry. However, I'm sure you don't care. As long as you marketers and managers have a company to feed off of for cash you'll be fine. If the company goes in the tank, who cares, you got away with your own personal stash. You can't survive on crap software and lied reviews forever. What the hell are you thinking?
    Again personal opinion here.

    I have worked at Eidos for nearly a decade. I love my job, I love working in games. Every title we publish has come through me at some point due to the nature of my job, and i take a lot of personal pride in what i do. I just wish people were able to think for themselves rather then see a comment, assume its all true and react to that. You know what they say about assumptions. The internet will always be home to those willing to ignore all facts and reason and just spam/troll to their hearts content.

    I do care personally, for whatever its worth to anyone, just doesnt mean i am in a position to say/do anything about it.

  8. #33

    Exclamation

    Keep it clean and at least neutral, people. We are going to delete crap.

  9. #34
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    Originally Posted by GoranAgar
    Keep it clean and at least neutral, people. We are going to delete crap.
    I always keep it clean.

  10. #35
    1) If you're going to merge topics like this, at least pick a topic where "Falsified" was spelled properly. Oh wait, I know-yet another attempt by Eidos to skew things by making it appear as though the people who are dogging you are nitwits.

    2) You have officially lost a customer in all things. I love Hitman. I adore Thief. But I will not do business with a company that is so blatantly unethical. When you got that reviewer fired, that just showed you were petty and bullies. Now it shows you guys just have no scruples and are willing to screw over your customers no matter what the cost, or how much you have to bamboozle them.

    In short, rack off Eidos. I hope you go the way of Looking Glass and every other game developer that has gone under.

  11. #36
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    Originally Posted by jaycw2309
    Update - Site has been amended removing the confusing stars
    Perhaps the webmaster for the official Kane & Lynch sites can update the 'Latest Press' section - the GameSpy quote ("...in the midst of a Michael Mann movie...") is still there (among other places), as well.

    Eidos - a piece of friendly advice. Your window of opportunity for fixing this mess is quickly closing. Once this gets picked up by the mainstream media (rather than being confined to forums like this and the Eidos fanboy / hater blogs), you'll find the story has a life of its own. Better to take your lumps now...

    BTW, are you using the same PR 'damage control' team that Microsoft used for their Xbox 360 'Red Ring of Death' issue?

  12. #37
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    Originally Posted by TimmyTheGreek
    1) If you're going to merge topics like this, at least pick a topic where "Falsified" was spelled properly. Oh wait, I know-yet another attempt by Eidos to skew things by making it appear as though the people who are dogging you are nitwits.

    2) You have officially lost a customer in all things. I love Hitman. I adore Thief. But I will not do business with a company that is so blatantly unethical. When you got that reviewer fired, that just showed you were petty and bullies. Now it shows you guys just have no scruples and are willing to screw over your customers no matter what the cost, or how much you have to bamboozle them.

    In short, rack off Eidos. I hope you go the way of Looking Glass and every other game developer that has gone under.
    Sighs, once again someone preferring to believe gossip and rumour rather then facts, not that theres been many released. Only people who know really what went on are the guys in that room that day.

    Oh well.

    Have editted the thread title so its spelled correctly now.

  13. #38
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    Thumbs Down It's great to see Eidos values integrity.

    In the past few days I've been keeping up with all the issues over the whole Eidos - Kane and Lynch - Gamespot - fake review scores / money beats integrity thing and I've concluded that:

    1. Eidos clearly values money over everything else.
    2. Eidos is censoring all posts related to the subject.
    3. We shouldn't purchase games from a publisher that is willing to buy their way into better game reviews and is willing to post false reviews on official sites of their games.
    4. After lurking these forums for a long time I've noticed true Eidos fanboys are attempting to ignore the issue. I'm a big Tomb Raider fan but this is just downright wrong.


    Yeah, just wait and see how long it will take before my thread is locked.

  14. #39
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    Originally Posted by skeetermeat
    I feel sorry for the moderators of this forum. With all of this crap going around I'm sure they have their work cut out for them.

    That said,

    this game, eidos, cnet. You guys are an insult to the gaming industry. However, I'm sure you don't care. As long as you marketers and managers have a company to feed off of for cash you'll be fine. If the company goes in the tank, who cares, you got away with your own personal stash. You can't survive on crap software and lied reviews forever. What the hell are you thinking?
    Hah - they're the ones closing all discussions on the issue.

    I agree 100% with the last paragraph of your post though.

  15. #40
    Originally Posted by jaycw2309
    Sighs, once again someone preferring to believe gossip and rumour rather then facts, not that theres been many released. Only people who know really what went on are the guys in that room that day.

    Oh well.

    Have editted the thread title so its spelled correctly now.
    Once again someone preferring to ignore the fact that only hardcore gamers know that your phony 5 star false advertising has been around since before the game went gold. Your casual gamer (read: Most of them) isn't going to realize this. Eidos isn't so stupid they don't realize this. You guys are intentionally misleading the public. Anyone who hasn't been to this site before the game went gold is going to read that and think that your game got rave reviews when people pretty much universally agree that it stinks.

    The company has no scruples. It has no morals. It has no ethics. And it has no TQM.

    Skol.

  16. #41
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    Originally Posted by ~NeonFire372~
    In the past few days I've been keeping up with all the issues over the whole Eidos - Kane and Lynch - Gamespot - fake review scores / money beats integrity thing and I've concluded that:

    1. Eidos clearly values money over everything else.
    2. Eidos is censoring all posts related to the subject.
    3. We shouldn't purchase games from a publisher that is willing to buy their way into better game reviews and is willing to post false reviews on official sites of their games.
    4. After lurking these forums for a long time I've noticed true Eidos fanboys are attempting to ignore the issue. I'm a big Tomb Raider fan but this is just downright wrong.


    Yeah, just wait and see how long it will take before my thread is locked.
    As always these are my personal opinions but will respond to you where i can

    The posts being censored are clearly people creating accounts JUST to spam and flood the forums, which is totally unfair for those trying to use the site for its proper use (to learn about the game and discuss it fairly). Also some of the posts were positively disgusting. I am pretty open minded but that was beyond sick.

    Quick question, if this was all about buying reviews then why did we get a 6? Surely when you `buy` something you buy a higher score, not a low one. Thats just my opinion tho.

    Oh and about the `false` reviews, there was never any mention that the stars represented scores (note that the stars had always been there from when the page was first launched, long before any review code was issued or scores given, so was just a design choice that was confusing. Also there were comments from sites that had given us 7, so why would we put 5 stars there?

    This whole saga i think has blown totally out of proportion. However nothing i say or anyone says is going to change peoples minds about what they FEEL has happened.

    If people debated things by reading up on the matter, formed their own opinion and then responded politely and without just insulting people then am sure things wouldnt have gone as far as they have. But who am i to tell people how to debate. There will always be those who think its clever and better to just swear and flame someone.

    Oh this got moved into the 1 thread going about this issue. I didnt do that as i was midway typing the reply above.

  17. #42
    Originally Posted by jaycw2309

    Quick question, if this was all about buying reviews then why did we get a 6? Surely when you `buy` something you buy a higher score, not a low one. Thats just my opinion tho.
    And your opinion is wrong. Eidos didn't buy a high score. What they bought was ad revenue with the expectation that the reviewer would lob another softball review upon the game and give it a 9 like every other undeserving game lately. What you ultimately bought was a way to instill the fear of god into reviewers from ever thinking about giving an honest review ever again because they'll get fired if the developer paying for all the advertisements doesn't like it.

    Oh and about the `false` reviews, there was never any mention that the stars represented scores (note that the stars had always been there from when the page was first launched, long before any review code was issued or scores given, so was just a design choice that was confusing. Also there were comments from sites that had given us 7, so why would we put 5 stars there?
    Don't insult our intelligence or think we're all so naive. You know as well as everyone else here that when you see movie-style reviews with a star rating system, it triggers a visual recognition in the brain that leads the consumer to believe it's an actual review and an actual score. Which is exactly what you tried to accomplish. This company is actively trying to fool consumers into thinking the game is highly rated, when it's not. Don't try that BS with "Well, we just decided to use stars to separate our lines in that image". Nobody is going to believe that--and they shouldn't. For the record, intentionally being deceptive like that using visualization is the key of a number of civil suits throughout history--and it never convinces a judge or jury. So your argument is not only logically weak, but also legally weak.

    As to the question you asked in the last line of that quote...indeed. Why did you? That's the million dollar question. Answer: You were trying to swindle consumers out of a million dollars.

    This whole saga i think has blown totally out of proportion. However nothing i say or anyone says is going to change peoples minds about what they FEEL has happened.
    Because you have an indefensible position. Because you have no credibility with the weak arguments you are presenting. Because you are coming off as nothing more than a corporate spin doctor. Because you completely fail to realize how blatantly deceptive and petty Eidos has been regarding this game.

    If people debated things by reading up on the matter, formed their own opinion and then responded politely and without just insulting people then am sure things wouldnt have gone as far as they have. But who am i to tell people how to debate. There will always be those who think its clever and better to just swear and flame someone.
    Right. Because everyone who sees it for what it is (read: Not your point of view) hasn't "formed their own opinion". We're all sheep that has partaken in the conspiracy theorists Kool-Aid. As opposed to the Corporate Kool-Aid.

  18. #43
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    If you saw the forums after the story broke u'd understand the `sheep` mentality at work. It was sick what was being posted and this was posted just off the back of a rumour, nothing factual.

    I dont for 1 second think you are naive, you've kinda proven that by fact you've written a more then 1 sentence response. However, I aint in marketing (as i have said many times before) and the fact that this is only your 3rd post suggests to me that maybe you are just here to incite things more?. If i am wrong in that assumption then accept my apologises.

    You have as much access to the actual facts as i do, which is to say, nothing more then rumour and conjecture and personal comment. i am only saying what i feel personally, which is what you are doing..

    However the outcome will affect me a lot more then it will affect you. I work here. I will be here tomorrow and the month after. Will you still be debating this in a months time? I kinda suspect not.

  19. #44
    Wow, that's pretty digraceful on Eidos' part.

  20. #45
    Originally Posted by jaycw2309
    If you saw the forums after the story broke u'd understand the `sheep` mentality at work. It was sick what was being posted and this was posted just off the back of a rumour, nothing factual.

    I dont for 1 second think you are naive, you've kinda proven that by fact you've written a more then 1 sentence response. However, I aint in marketing (as i have said many times before) and the fact that this is only your 3rd post suggests to me that maybe you are just here to incite things more?. If i am wrong in that assumption then accept my apologises.

    You have as much access to the actual facts as i do, which is to say, nothing more then rumour and conjecture and personal comment. i am only saying what i feel personally, which is what you are doing..

    However the outcome will affect me a lot more then it will affect you. I work here. I will be here tomorrow and the month after. Will you still be debating this in a months time? I kinda suspect not.
    Or perhaps I had nothing to come here for until now, hmmm? I am, at the core, a casual gamer. One that happens to keep his finger on the pulse, however.

    Rumors? It's not a rumor that you had those "reviews" on your site. It's not a rumor that your marketing department intentionally put those 5 stars there to trigger a mental response from people who saw it. It's not a rumor that the reviewer was fired for dogging your game--his bosses have come right out and said the "tone" of his review was unacceptable--which as we all know is corporate double speak for "He was gonna cost us ad money, so heads had to roll"

    It's also no rumor that developers run on slim margins these days and one bad game can completely bankrupt a company. This is why so many go out of business. And it's also not a rumor that this game is bad. Furthermore, it's not a rumor that the fact that this company got its hand caught in the cookie jar multiple times this go round is going to impact its bottom line.

    Me? You're right, I won't be arguing this next month. I'll be arguing it till I get bored with it, and then I'll turn my back and never allow an Eidos product to darken my disc tray ever again.

    Course, by this time next month you might not be arguing it anymore either--for all we know this will spur EA to buy your lying, deceitful company which previously had a pretty good reputation out.

  21. #46
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    I am just an employee saying it how i see it. Yes of course i will be more pro Eidos, just as you are being anti eidos.

    The official statement has been made by Cnet and it clearly says it wasnt not influenced by an advertiser. Of course you have chosen to ignore that as true, as is your right.

    i bet you could trawl the net for any company that advertises a product and find a world of sites that give information that can be construed as misleading or confusing. I not condoning this at all, just stating the fact that if you have a product you want to sell you are not going to do a `Ratner` and say `oh people will buy it even if it is crap` of course not. Thats commercial suicide.

    As i said on another site, someone had to market Gigli. This was a movie universally panned, but it was someones job to push it tho. (note i am NOT comparing K&L to Gigli just saying as an example of marketing)

  22. #47
    Originally Posted by TimmyTheGreek
    Rumors? It's not a rumor that you had those "reviews" on your site. It's not a rumor that your marketing department intentionally put those 5 stars there to trigger a mental response from people who saw it. It's not a rumor that the reviewer was fired for dogging your game--his bosses have come right out and said the "tone" of his review was unacceptable--which as we all know is corporate double speak for "He was gonna cost us ad money, so heads had to roll"
    It's exactly a rumor! And wouldn't it make more sense to hate gamespot for firing the reviewer. Hell, the guy did nag a bit in some of the review (I assume the tone parts were about him not liking the game's characters and claiming the language being out of place, both were bad comments for the review). If that rumor was by the same people who started the whole reviews rumor, the whole thing is probably bull anyway.

    Hell, common sense would tell you that a game's website would find the best comments about the game anyways. If that's the only place you go to for seeing if you want the game, I'm sorry, but your an idiot.

    If you wanted real misadvertisement that's 100% true, look at the back of a K&L PC case.

    And another thing, why the hell are expletives censored on a Kane and Lynch forum!?

  23. #48
    Originally Posted by halflifedave
    If that's the only place you go to for seeing if you want the game, I'm sorry, but your an idiot.

    Thank you for doing my all-time favorite internet oxymoron. There's nothing that brings a smile to my face quite like the irony of someone, anyone, saying "your an idiot". It ranks right up there with "You're to stupid to understand" or the like.

  24. #49
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    Originally Posted by halflifedave
    And another thing, why the hell are expletives censored on a Kane and Lynch forum!?
    Its the same forum as used for all our titles, so uses same text censor etc.

    Yeh its a bit silly when you think about it, but theres nothing to stop someone looking at this forum who is under 18.

  25. #50
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    Originally Posted by TimmyTheGreek
    Thank you for doing my all-time favorite internet oxymoron. There's nothing that brings a smile to my face quite like the irony of someone, anyone, saying "your an idiot". It ranks right up there with "You're to stupid to understand" or the like.
    Just cos he used the wrong you're doesnt make his comment any less valid.

    If he'd said it verbally you'd have not known the difference

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