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Thread: Big question about the blood reaver

  1. #1

    Big question about the blood reaver

    Okays my ? is How is it when Raziel uses the blood reaver in sr2 he says it replenished his health but in Defiance when Kain uses it he still has to feed even when he uses the sword? It's not a soul reaver yet. Would like to hear everyones input on this.

  2. #2
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    yeah come to think of it that doesn't make sense to me either....

    anyone got any theories to share?

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    Raziel also couldn't let go of it, while Kain can. It's just because of who and what Raziel is.

  4. #4
    Some theorise that Raziel was just assuming that it was the Reaver replenishing his health when in fact it was fate itself ensuring Raziel didn't escape his approaching fate.
    Our futures are predestined. It is my fate to write this and yours to read this. Free will is an illusion.

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    or perhaps the BR was charmed to sustain the Vampire Champion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raina Audron View Post
    or perhaps the BR was charmed to sustain the Vampire Champion...
    I agree with that. After all, the Reaver was forged to be wielded by the champion and the scion of balance. It would be logical that it would help him complete his mission.

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    Actually, I have always seen it that the blade was both bonded to his hand in that moment by the Wraith Blade, as well as it was the Wraith Blade that was siphoning its own energy to ensure Raziel's invincibility. The Wraith Blade was prevented from manifesting itself in the Material Realm by Moebius' staff, but that doesn't mean it couldn't affect Raziel still (in this case by forcing Raziel's hand to not be able to let go of the Blood Reaver, as well as giving over its own energy). The Blood Reaver, btw, was *not* "replenishing" his health, dragonfly2 (as in his health depleted and the blood being sucked up by the blade restored it, which is what you're implying), Raziel says that he's being sustained, that his wounds healed almost instantly. His health could not go down.

    The Wraith Blade is the entity that forces the physical blade back in on Raziel at the end to force its own creation, so it stands to reason it would want to get to that point as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raina Audron View Post
    or perhaps the BR was charmed to sustain the Vampire Champion...
    I was sooo thinking about that today....that is probably the main reason why it doesn't recover kains health.
    and since raziel's the vampire Hero......

    kain - Scion of balance - wielder of reaver.
    Raziel - Vampire Savior - also wielder of reaver,buuut he gets healed using it.

    it makes tons of sense!!

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    actually I don´t think it was the disabled WB that sustained Raziel...
    It became ravenous after embracing the SR blade at the beginning of
    SR2, remember? It sustained Raziel only during the period of SR1 and beginning of SR2 but never made him invincible...
    Janos said that the BR was forged for him - this statement makes the theory of the BR sustaining Raziel possible...And Raziel´s health DID go down when he was hit by the Sarafan - and went up quickly again...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Raina Audron View Post
    Janos said that the BR was forged for him - this statement makes the theory of the BR sustaining Raziel possible...
    It was made clear in Defiance that Janos was decieved by his blurry visions of the future... He mistook Raziel for an Ancient Vampire, thinking he was the Vampire hero (and that the Vampire hero was also the Scion) wielding a physical Reaver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heresy Dragon View Post
    It was made clear in Defiance that Janos was decieved by his blurry visions of the future... He mistook Raziel for an Ancient Vampire, thinking he was the Vampire hero (and that the Vampire hero was also the Scion) wielding a physical Reaver.

    Actually he says to Raziel, "You must seek the Scion of Balance" to Raziel, so he knew that Raziel and the Scion of Balance were two different people.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    Actually he says to Raziel, "You must seek the Scion of Balance" to Raziel, so he knew that Raziel and the Scion of Balance were two different people.
    Oh, maybe, I don't remember the exact lines, nevermind. In any case, when in SR2 Janos said that the blade was made for Raziel, he thought he was only the vampire hero. Meaning this line cannot be used to argue that the BR is sustaining Raziel at the end of SR2 because it would have supposedly been "made for him".

    I think it had something to do with the wraith blade, and maybe Fate, both having strong reasons to want Raziel in the Blade.

  13. #13
    Hey all,

    I was thinking that the solution would be this;

    Once Moebius's spell disabled the Wraith Blade in Raziel, the blade energy therefore had to be tucked back into Raziel's soul (it never makes it's way to his body, etc). We see that Raziel is not invincible the first time Moebius's spell is used, but we also see that he becomes invincible when he is holding the Blood Reaver after Moebius's same spell is put on him.

    To explain this, I propose the driving desire of the Wraith and Blood Reavers to connect (since they're so close when Raziel holds the BR) is powerful enough to create a small "crack" in Moebius's spell that allows for a degree of connection between the Reavers. Proof of this connection is seen in how Raziel can't let go of the Reaver. This connection is strong enough to affect Raziel, but too weak to allow the Reavers to actually merge.

    During the duration of this partial link, the Blood Reaver is able to pull out a whisp of the "tucked back" energy and direct it into the material blade. Since the Blood Reaver is a material entity, when the Wraith energy reaches the Blood Reaver it becomes material enegy inside the material blade. Then, to complete the cycle between the Reavers, that physical energy from the Blood Reaver goes back into Raziel's body. This provides Raziel with a constantly flowing source of vital energy (invincibilty).

  14. #14
    Oooookay but Janos did say as well that the blade also drained the enemy of their lifes blood (hence it's a blood reaver) it really shouldn't matter who welds the sword it should still replenish Kain of his blood to.

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    Dragonfly2 - you got a point I still think it was the BR that was sustaining him...the WB lost it´s healing abilities after Reaver convergence so it couldn´t heal him...
    The WB was completely disabled so how could it sustain Raziel?

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    Janos didn't say that the sword replenishes whoever weilds it. I don't see why the sword would heal Kain too.

  17. #17
    But it's a blood reaver a vampieric blade so it sucks the blood of the foes it's used on and replenishes the blood of the one that wields it. thats my point. It may have been made for Razzy but it still should work with anyone that uses the sword.

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    Why? I don't see any reason why it should replenish anyone that weilds it. The sword itself drinks the blood.

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    If it replenished the blood of the one who wields it, Kain would never ever have had to drink from anyone in Defiance

    As far as why the Wraith Blade did what it did and was affected as it was, I will just quote myself:

    Actually, I have always seen it that the blade was both bonded to his hand in that moment by the Wraith Blade, as well as it was the Wraith Blade that was siphoning its own energy to ensure Raziel's invincibility. The Wraith Blade was prevented from manifesting itself in the Material Realm by Moebius' staff, but that doesn't mean it couldn't affect Raziel still (in this case by forcing Raziel's hand to not be able to let go of the Blood Reaver, as well as giving over its own energy). The Blood Reaver, btw, was *not* "replenishing" his health, dragonfly2 (as in his health depleted and the blood being sucked up by the blade restored it, which is what you're implying), Raziel says that he's being sustained, that his wounds healed almost instantly. His health could not go down.

    The Wraith Blade is the entity that forces the physical blade back in on Raziel at the end to force its own creation, so it stands to reason it would want to get to that point as well.
    In that quote, explained, I have, why Raziel's energy restored, the Wraith Blade did (yes, I am Yoda-ing right now). The blade is disabled in the Material Realm, but both it and Raziel are souls, Spectral creatures, and it, along with Raziel, still thrive behind the shell of the body Raziel manifests. Anyway, this is by far the best, most logical explanation. There is no slight "crack" in Moebius' spell, or a bond between the physical sword and Wraith Blade that drives both.

  20. #20
    Nice explanation, also I'd like to point out why the Blood Reaver does not have to replenish Kain with blood. *Goes to dark-chronicle*

    Everybody *bows* I now show you Exhibit A:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    Exhibit B:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    Exhibit C:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    Exhibit D:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    Exhibit E:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    Exhibit F:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    Exhibit G:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    And finally Exhibit H:

    http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/...p?sec=5&type=1

    *ahem* Now while some of these exhibits do not show any proof you may disregard them completely, but note the ones that shows the "Heart Seeker Spear", "Blood Drinker Spear", and "Soul Stealer Spear".

    These murals show that the Vampires had such weapons despite the fact that none of them were wraiths who had a hunger for souls such as Raziel, or a Hunger for hearts such as Sarafan Raziel or a hunger for blood such as Kain or Vorador.

    Therefore cannot it not be concluded that at the time the Blood Reaver was forged by Vorador that it was not made to be a weapon to draw blood for the wielder? It was made to be a weapon to be used for as Janos put it in SR2 "Our salvation" surely they hoped that when balance was restored they would be freed of the blood-thirst curse so then why keep a weapon which supplies you with blood?

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    I liked the idea someone had a while ago here that all the Ancient Vampire weapons drank blood, so the Hylden put some irony into the curse.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    I liked the idea someone had a while ago here that all the Ancient Vampire weapons drank blood, so the Hylden put some irony into the curse.
    Hehehehe I like that theory.

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    I read about that too...I was discussing this with my friend, but there´s no clear evidence that how did they feed themselves before the curse. The mural in Pillars Chamber in SR2 could depict that drinking blood from animals didn´t sustain them anymore...but it could also show that vampires tried to drank from animals first and then humans..

  24. #24
    most likely reason is because of game play reasons, like if that happened to while you were playing as kain it would be a shorter game but speculating here the reason could possible be because Raziel's destiny is to go in the blade and this was a way to archive it could replenish Raziel's health until an appropriate time maybe?

  25. #25
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    No, it's not for gameplay reasons. I think the first thing everyone here must remember about this is that Raziel doesn't feed off of blood anymore. The physical blade wouldn't feed him anyway. It doesn't feed a vampire blood, in Kain, and it doesn't feed Raziel anything in SR2 either. The most logical explanation is that it is the Wraith Blade forcing him to be sustained by siphoning its own energy to Raziel during battle. Again, it can't physically manifest itself, but it can bond Raziel's hand to the physical blade and it can feed his soul with its own energy (which is what Raziel is anyway).

    Also remember how it (the Wraith Blade) leached from Raziel his very soul energy to restore the physical Reaver in the beginning of SR2. It now is sacrificing its own energy to keep Raziel sustained in order to get him to the point in time where he goes into the Reaver.

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