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Thread: 1. What would you have liked to see in BSM?

1. What would you have liked to see in BSM?

  1. #26
    Wow i think my list is going to keep growing as i think of em all but heres a start.....

    * Single Player Campaign needed alot more repayabilty length and variation in my humble opinion. Maybe branching mission endings or a seperate 'free patrol campaign' like in Destroyer Command could have been added.

    * Skirmish Mode and a Map Editor would make this game alot longer lasting especially for any1 who dosnt get the chance to play online

    * Official Mod tools and support always seems to add to the popularity of games, as it involves the community making a great variaty of versions of the game thus extending its life/replayability. Ive even bought PC games just because i wanted to play a certain mod.

    * Online Setup - Needs serious modernization
    - Lobby Chat, Player List and News (so pple know when patches out etc) are essential features i reckon.
    - the ability to either make and exchange new maps or maybe the option of changing starting forces for multi maps by host, maybe they set buy points and u purchase your fleet etc.
    - Buddy System, Voice over IP, Dedicated servers would be a fine idea as well but not essential.

    * Damage control is in general a little to fast and powerful in my opinion, for instance 3 men on pumps on a BB makes torp planes kinda redundant. If it was toned/slowed down by 25% i think would make a more realistic and fun battle. Perhaps the Host could set a game to Realistic Damage On as a game option when hosting, giving players the damage effects like in SP on Veteran, ie Nasty ! fighting fires becomes critical etc.


    * PT boats are not fully finished maybe, there formations dont seem to work in that they all seem to collide with the leader. Also turning on auto torps for all pts in a squad is very timeconsuming, and could be facilitated by my next point a hotkey.

    * Game seriously needed more PC Hotkeys, the ALT order system is nice but shows it obvious origins from xbox a few hotkeys for pc would have been nice.
    Examples for needed keys - auto move, CAP, Auto Torp on/off, Landing etc.
    Being able to save units to Number hotkeys could have been handy as well.
    I know if you have only 2 units in a game such keys seem uneccessary, i was more thinking of games when you control large numbers of ships and air.

    * Small one here - Camera Shake and Water drops should show when you are in Damage control position, so you still feel them shells hittin and get your socks wet while combating flooding.

    * Experience rewards for ships and air crews, would be a nice feature. Especially in Single Player campaign. Also might get around the gameplay problem of having to wait for bombers to land or kamikazi em dilema.

    Im sure il think of more an add em as they turn up.

    PS Pardon my poor English ........ im Australian

  2. #27
    Originally Posted by sblendo
    More incentive to land planes. Many ideas have been stated, not sure if any are the perfect answer. I hate splashing them but too often it is the only way to have a chance at winning. Perhaps when commanding to land they go grey on the map when within a certain distance (Kai Robin had mentioned) and are locked into landing, freeing up to launch more planes. If ship sinks during this sequence they are back in play. "Leveling up" is an interesting idea as well for planes that successfully complete a mission and return, however both ideas are not foolproof or immune to abuse, but are good starting points.

    Great point. Nothing was more unrealistic or felt as cheap as splashing planes in the water for no good reason. What can be done though to prevent it? Tough question.

    I would imagine the most effective way would be to send bombers into automatiac land mode the instant they drop their payload. So you drop the bomb and boom, the ships set to land and takes a auto land course and you lose control. Splashing fighters I guess would still need to be allowed because quite frankly you always need to have control of your fighters. This would at least make splashing less likely.

  3. #28

    Question RE: Pilots

    Discussion Point: Pilots.

    It just popped into my head, so without forethought I'll let you guys bake your noodle with this one:

    How about, 40 planes, but only 20 pilots.

    -lexxy.

  4. #29
    Originally Posted by Lexxy
    Discussion Point: Pilots.

    It just popped into my head, so without forethought I'll let you guys bake your noodle with this one:

    How about, 40 planes, but only 20 pilots.

    -lexxy.

    That is interesting, and would be a huge incentive to land. But when I think about it a little more there are a awful lot of planes shot down legit in the game. I've lost my entire air force in some matches without crashing a single plan on purpose. Frankly I'd be pissed off if I ran out of pilots but had planes left.


    So lets expand your idea for a moment.

    What about 40 planes 20 Veteran Pilots. When you lose them your planes launch with inexperienced pilots. (maybe they take some kind of ratings penalty on maneuverability, speed, how the AI handles dogfighting for planes you don't manually control when the rookies are being used).

    So this way you still have plenty of planes, but you want to make sure you land planes because if your crashing planes, once you lose your 20 Veteran pilots (which would be your first 20 planes for each plane type) your using the Rookies (for the remaining 20 planes of each plane type). This is also a realistic way to handle it as Carriers/Air Bases launched in waves and used more experienced pilots first. The Movie Midway (with Mr. Miagi ) comes to mind as a example of this.

    Note: I was just using 40 planes (20 Veteran pilots/20 inexperienced pilots) as a example. It can be applied to any number of planes

    For instance

    20 Zeros (10 Veteran pilots, 10 inexperience pilots
    20 Dive Bombers (10 Veteran pilots, 10 inexperienced pilots)
    etc. etc..

    I would be very hesitant to crash any planes on purpose if I was losing my Veteran pilots

  5. Discussion Point: limited ammo

    i think an good idea is the option "limited ammo" for all ships!
    means ... maybe 200 or 300 grenades on bb for primary guns!
    same for secondary! so you learn to aim and in reality there are no unlimited grenades too.

    also i wish an "in game" timer, im an other game i played before someone create this as tool . you can check times in game whit this like........
    how long i need whit my ships from P1 --->P2.
    is not so important but a idea

    wishes AKAGI

  6. #31
    Limited ammo is a good point - we were discussing that earlier as well indeed. I agree that if that can be implemented correctly it would add a lot to the "strategy".

    I was lazy to read back to see if we listed this, if so, here is my vote on it:
    The ability to control the ship's main guns independently (one by one or with some flexibility to "group" some or all of them). It can increase the ship's capability to either deal with multiple targets (front, back) or use a full broadside fire against a main target.

    Some said the "kamikaze" tactic to be kept "discarded" in the game. From one hand I tend to agree, however if we would reduce the number of available planes per platform significantly it could result in a more careful approach to this. Combine this with the pilot concept above (including skill) and you can create a fine balance that can keep this type of "weapon" in it's place.

  7. #32
    Originally Posted by It3llig3nc3

    Some said the "kamikaze" tactic to be kept "discarded" in the game. From one hand I tend to agree, however if we would reduce the number of available planes per platform significantly it could result in a more careful approach to this. Combine this with the pilot concept above (including skill) and you can create a fine balance that can keep this type of "weapon" in it's place.
    Well If you think about it in regards to what we were discussing above, where maybe a incentive to return planes to land would be the experienced/inexperienced pilots, I'd imagine that would stop Kamakize to. Sure you can still do it, but how many would if you were losing your best pilots?


    Edit: Never mind. I didn't finish reading the very end of your post. It sound like you were just pointing out the same thing I said in this post.

  8. #33
    I'm glad that little idea provoked some thought.
    I simply considered : why doesn't this happen realisticly - and the answer is simple : Human life.

    Applied to a game, the "pilots" would give value to planes and therby make them more than an expendable unit. I like Shamrock's approach in veteran pilots - would work really well

    -Lexxy.

  9. #34
    Yeah its a great idea to a well known problem. Nice idea shamrock

  10. #35
    loving the idea of veteran pilots and rookies this is BRILLIANT give that man a cigar definately an incentive to land your birds.

    Also love the idea of limited ammo on the ships (I think the AA guns should stay as they are). This would allow the fleet to withdraw to say the edge of the map and call in a supply convoy consisting of a fleet oiler, a cargo ships being escorted by a few destroyers what a great idea.

    im not too keen on the sugestion about individualy controlling and firing turrets this may work on the PC where the user has about 100 buttons on the keyboard to play around with but dont forget us 360 users only have 17 buttons so this may not be compatible with 360 control architecture.

    More downloadable content for all too, for the PC users i guess its easy to D/L map packs from the internet but for us 360 uswrs we gotta pay for our downloads and although the Iowa mission pack was great I was a bit disapointed at payin £5 and only getting 1 new sinlge player and 1 new MP map

  11. this plane could be cool as an late war kamikaze weapon ,maybe 5 peaces in an installation ?!

    THE OHKA

  12. #37
    Nice Buzz Bomb Akagi

    An idea...

    Another form of Damage.. crew damage

    Certain hits can wound and kill your crew, Maybe your little 3 repair men turn yellow(wounded) then red(Critical) as the are damaged an killed off. RED men cant be reassigned from general quarters an work at 25% rate, while yellow men can be moved but work/repair at a slower rate.

    Just so real beat up ships cant repair at the same rate as fresh ships since most of there crew would be a little unwell at the point where half the superstructure is a smoldering heap..

  13. #38
    I think as long as it was nice and simple, crew damage might be quite cool

    I wouldn't want to be too overwhelmed with micro management, though, you see.

    -Lexxy.

  14. #39
    WRT Ammo for Ships. We mentioned about the use of the 5in guns on
    CVs so we wouldn't end up with draws when the planes ran out. Imagine the possibility for Draws with ships running out of Ammo. In the Great Navel Battles games you had ammo for all the ships guns, once you ran out you had to disengage/avoid engagements and make a run for the nearest port to rearm.

    You know the biggest thing with returning planes is it takes so long for them to land. I think a simple solution like a landing radius around an Airfield or CV locks them in and allows you to launch a fresh squad would go a long ways towards incentive to land. Having an extra air wing (4 instead of 3) would help too. Still when you've got a ship just about to reach firing range on your CVs your going to splash everything anyways for a quicker attack plane turnover.

    WRT Kami planes; simply have planes do no damage when they crash into a ship unless it's a designated Squad of Kami Zeros(new plane unit). Still a solution for landing planes is a tough one, The Veterancy idea (#of completed missions) has alot of merit.

  15. #40
    I'm not sure if I like the complexity in the idea of pilots gaining experience or not. But I wouldn't be against it either, as I think it would force changes to some of our strategies. And that is usually a good thing. I think we would definitely see a whole lot more effort by the defending units to shoot down those planes and not just ignore them as soon as they have dropped armaments. In the experienced players' matches we would hardly see any planes at all making it home. This would become a primary strategic objective early in matches for good players/teams.

    But if you are gonna do this, then you have to give me control over those land based AA guns.

  16. #41
    The more I think about this plane thing the more I realize that if it is done cleverly the realism and "punch" of the game could improve a lot.

    We have a lot of components together to keep the action/strategy element, avoid extreme micro-management, keep the planes and make 1 plane more precious, valuable AND at the same time stronger than today.

    for me the elements:
    1. Put the pilot and their experience level in place so when the planes are flying on AI their performance is much closely related to how the player itself "behaves" in the game and what decisions it makes
    2. Improve the squad management, make sure planes are returned, land so their force is fully utilized - if we want to increase pace make landing/take-off faster indeed
    3. Have limited ammo even for plane's guns so dogfight is more critical. also make AA guns at least periodically "off" either by "gun overheat" or "cartridge replacement" or even say some of the repair crew can be assigned to AA guns ammo refill - so player has to trade between AA efficiency or flood fight...?
    4. Improved DAMAGE Model: start with making DAMAGE of bombs more realistic. This is key. If you limit the number of planes / enable kamikaze mode / etc. you got to make sure it does not take 4x4 planes to sink a BB - have a ship damage model more sensitive to "weak points" Remember! The Bismarck got crippled by ONE! lucky torp hit that disabled it's steering capability!
    Planes are quite "disposable" in the current game as loosing a few does not make a lot of difference unless the battle lasts very long.

  17. #42
    Originally Posted by Scipio65
    I'm not sure if I like the complexity in the idea of pilots gaining experience or not. But I wouldn't be against it either, as I think it would force changes to some of our strategies. And that is usually a good thing. I think we would definitely see a whole lot more effort by the defending units to shoot down those planes and not just ignore them as soon as they have dropped armaments. In the experienced players' matches we would hardly see any planes at all making it home. This would become a primary strategic objective early in matches for good players/teams.

    But if you are gonna do this, then you have to give me control over those land based AA guns.


    Just wanted to point out that what I was talking about wouldn't involve Pilots gaining experience. What I meant was more along the lines of you have 40 planes and 20 experienced pilots (these pilots could be identical to the current pilots in BSM). When you lose your first 20 planes of any plane type (Zero, Dive Bomber, Torpedo Bomber, etc) your remaining planes would be launched with inexperienced or "rookie pilots" who have some type of ratings penalty against them (ie. Slower?, Less Maneuverable?, Worse AI?, etc) not sure what exactly the rating hit is, but it makes these pilots worse than experienced pilots.

    So I wasn't suggesting that as you fly, pilots gain more experience or get better etc. That may very will get to complicated for some people to keep track of or unbalance the game. I simply mean that you have just your regular old normal pilots (which I'm calling experienced) with your first 20 planes and then if you lose them all your last 20 planes (of any given plane type) launch with rookies who have some sort of penalty that makes them not fly as good as normal pilots.

  18. #43
    Originally Posted by Shamrock
    Just wanted to point out that what I was talking about wouldn't involve Pilots gaining experience. What I meant was more along the lines of you have 40 planes and 20 experienced pilots (these pilots could be identical to the current pilots in BSM). When you lose your first 20 planes of any plane type (Zero, Dive Bomber, Torpedo Bomber, etc) your remaining planes would be launched with inexperienced or "rookie pilots" who have some type of ratings penalty against them (ie. Slower?, Less Maneuverable?, Worse AI?, etc) not sure what exactly the rating hit is, but it makes these pilots worse than experienced pilots.

    So I wasn't suggesting that as you fly, pilots gain more experience or get better etc. That may very will get to complicated for some people to keep track of or unbalance the game. I simply mean that you have just your regular old normal pilots (which I'm calling experienced) with your first 20 planes and then if you lose them all your last 20 planes (of any given plane type) launch with rookies who have some sort of penalty that makes them not fly as good as normal pilots.
    Actually, I think that the "Pilot gain experience" could be added to the idea of only a limited nummber of pilots. Imagine this, you get twenty experienced pilots, and twenty rookie pilots. Once all of your veteran pilots die, the rookies come out. How would it play out if lets say, a rookie dive bombs, or torpedeos a ship, and returns to base? Or a rookie fighter pilot shoots down five planes? (The amount for him to be an ace.)

    That pilot would gain experience. I think that that could work very well, and you really wouldn't have to keep track of anything. If the pilot landed, one pilot would show up on a gauge that showed the amount of your pilots.

  19. #44
    I reckon heaps of these Realism effects would be great as options, so some can play with em off for a more arcade fast game, while us old fogies who dont mind the more complex and slower game etc could turn em on.

    Best off both worlds and keep every happy hehe

  20. #45
    Battlestations: Midway Lieutenant Commander
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    Here is a totally off the wall sugestion.

    Single player split screen like Team Yankee

  21. #46
    System link. I forgot about that one. This game needs system link, and splitsreen. I would love to have had play with friends at times, but there was no internet connection, so we couldn't.

  22. im sry but i forgot 1 thing
    i wanna see a meeting point for planes, that means..... the airfield or CVs start in auto mode planes and all new planes move automaticly to the "meetingpoint" i set on card before
    E5 for example!
    thx AKAGI

  23. #48
    Originally Posted by -=)CSF(=-Akagi
    im sry but i forgot 1 thing
    i wanna see a meeting point for planes, that means..... the airfield or CVs start in auto mode planes and all new planes move automaticly to the "meetingpoint" i set on card before
    E5 for example!
    thx AKAGI
    I think what he is trying to say is he want's to be able to set a rally point for all planes from that carrier. Which I think is a great idea because what we have to do now is launch 3 squads of planes and wait 2 minutes for all of them to get into the air before we move them out. It's a little bothersome especialy when your also controlling Ships. I'd would also very much like to be able to set a rally point, launch 3 squads of planes and know that as each squad launches they will automatically go to that spot.

    This way I don't have to launch 3 squads. First squad is viewable on map, move them, wait for next squad to be viewable, move them. switch to my ship, open map again to see if 3rd squad is up, etc... I think you get the picture.

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