Thread: Alpha tester General Feedback for the 24/10 event

Alpha tester General Feedback for the 24/10 event

  1. #1
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    Sep 2013
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    Alpha tester General Feedback for the 24/10 event

    I figured we needed a thread to post our general feedback on today's alpha event.
    My feedback follows, but feel free to use this thread to post yours.


    First, what I'm going to say is based on the 3 matches I've played today, as I didn't have the time for more. I played as a Scout for Humans and then as a Reaver for Vampires. All the games took place on the "Freeport" map.

    Technical
    Networking
    I had quite a lot of lag (network lag), even if the game registered a fairly good ping (~100ms). I think I had spikes every 10 seconds or so, which made it quite hard to be remotely efficient with the bow. Unfortunately I forgot to note the server's name. I'm playing in Europe, from France.

    Also, is the "sync profile with server" pop up gonna stay at the end of each game when you go back to the menu? It takes 10-15 seconds each time and you can't do anything else so it's rather irritating.

    Visuals
    I know it must be one of your preorities right now, but as it stands the game's performance isn't up to par. My PC (i5 2500k, Geforce GTX 560Ti) can handle games like Metro Last Light on high (not highest)with no problems but in Nosgoth it got as low as 35-40fps or so in some places (especially in vantage points overlooking the city). Still playable, but for a MP game where you'll always go through the same places it needs that steady high fps. Of course I can lower the details (I did not try it but I'm think with the AO gone I would run the game at 60fps). But still, I don't think the visuals warrant a high end system to run the game.

    Speaking of how the game looks, here are my thoughts: texture quality isn't that great. The problem is that it's inconsistant, some textures are quite good while others are nothing more than "bleh". Animation quality ranges from okay (I can't bring myself to like the Razielim's animations, I guess giving presence and character to a flying being is quite hard. As it stands it feels floaty) to really good (I like the oompf it gives when scaling walls as a Reaver).

    Gameplay
    Scout
    I'm not gonna lie, on the first match I played as a Scout I couldn't tell what was going on but the lag must have been a good part of the reason why. Vampires were on us slaughtering us in an instant and I just couldn't defend myself with the bow. Razielim kept picking me off the ground, even when I tried to roll away. But it could have been the lag.

    Let's talk about the bow. I haven't played enough to be sure, but not charged up it felt quite useless to me. The problem is when a Vampire gets too close, you can't do anything but throw daggers every 6seconds or so. Because aiming down sights with the right mouse button changes the view to a really narrow FOV and then your character takes up a third of the screen, so aiming at a Vampire that is too close and moving is impossible. I guess it's to balance the game but if so I'm not sure a normal attack with the bow even has its place in the game, if it's gonna remove only 5% of an enemy's total hps. If the only thing a scout can do in close combat is wait until his dagger cooldown is over, why not make it a defensive move, like a block with the bow that if timed right reduces the amount of damage from an incoming attack.
    Let's just say that I found the bow controls stange. Here's what I expected going in: the longer I hold the left mouve button, the more powerful the attack, the right mouse button zooms in a little to help me aim. That's how most games do bows. As for Nosgoth it works so you can't use a powerful attack with your wide field of view, to balance things like I said before, am I right? If not, then the bow controls are just strange.

    Reaver
    I really like the climbing element. Even if I spent 2 minutes figuring out how to do it (I mean, shift?). You don't need to make a tutorial, just have prompts the first few times a player stands near a wall (like "hold [key] to climb") then remove it after those few times, when the player has figured it out.
    I felt weak as a human, but when I was a lone Reaver against 4 of them (the other players had left), they just murdered me over and over again. So I guess I just sucked at both roles.

    General
    Movement
    I just found it strange going in to not be able to jump. Sometimes I got stuck in crates that I could easily have jumped over. It makes it strange for Vampires when jumping off of roofs when you want to get to the next roof, I wasn't sure if I my Reaver was going to jump or just drop down: it removes that element of control from the player.

    Asymmetric teams and game course
    Let's just say that playing with random people isn't going to be fun to most people. Humans not coordinated, going their own separate ways is just not going to work. One guy not following the group and your entire team is F***ed. You NEED to put clan support into this game, because I don't see random people coming and having fun just with PUGs in the long term. It's not like in TF2 where you do need some coordination. Here, YOU EFFING NEED IT.

    Also can player join during a match? because 3 people on my team left during the Vampire phase and I was alone against 4 Humans sticking together, so the match is essentially done.

    UI
    Menu
    I'm sure that the thing you're working on right now, but the menus need some work: the placing, spacing of things, ..., but also controls like the scrolls: the mouse wheel doesn't always work strangely (I had to roll it for a bit before the game registered and began to scroll the list in the menu).
    Also, in the main menu, can I create groups, add my friends, so I can begin a game with my friends instead of random people? Will there be a server browser/list. I'm not sure how it will work in the end, here I just had to click play and it found a game for me, filled it with players and started the game.

    Life bar
    That blood is just too dark, it's hard to read against the black background!


    Skill Icons
    In game skill icons are too hard to read. You know it's not right when you have to go to the load-out screen to read what it does. I didn't know what the Reaver "lightning reflex" skill was about, especially when the only feedback on screen is "you can't attack right now" and the blue light thing. The icon is pretty but is having a hard time telling me what the skill does. From the UI, I don't even ave the name of the skill, which describes it better that any icon. Use tropes for these icons, for instance on the reaver reflex thing, have the arrows coming at the Reaver horizontal instead of vertical, hitting a transparent mirror image of the reaver while the real, not transparent reaver stands on the side, with a succession of mirror images between the two going from not transparent to transparent.

    Granted, when you know how to play you don't need those icons, but why having them at all? to teach beginners! We all want that easy to pick up, difficult to master game, right?


    BUGS

    I found two in my short play test:
    - One minor: The game didn't display the other scouts' arrows when building a powerful attack. The flame (when charged up to full) is displayed though, so it kind of looks strange.

    - One major: I jumped on a human standing near a wall as a Reaver, and as I landed on him something happened (I'm not sure what, a Tyrant jumped down on him or something) and the human was dead. My "slashy slashy" animation was interrupted, but I was left hovering in the air. I could look around, make my character face other directions, but I was stuck there, falling animation playing. I have a sreenshot of it but I'm not sure where to upload it.
    I think I was in the wall, not the wall I could see but the invisible one over the steps below the actual, seeable wall. I couldn't do anything for the rest of the match, as with my luck no humans came along to put me out of my misery.


    LOK IP
    The map I played on (Freeport) is a nice mediterranean looking town. That didn't scream LoK to me, but I'm not against expanding the universe. The strange thing is that eclipse going on (is that a leftover from Dead Sun?). What is it doing here? Smoke should block out the sun, according to the lore, not the moon :P

    I know you wish to use the LoK IP, but it's used in strange ways. My scout said something along the lines of "Now that Kain is gone, it's our time to take over the land" at the start of the match. I don't know, but I don't think anyone would say that at the beginning of a battle/mission like that. It feels like it's an attempt to show us that look, it is a game set in the LoK universe. The other lines like this one do work and give life to the battle, I like the idea, but this one feels forced and unnatural. Why not say something like "You'll soon join Kain into oblivion" if you want to mention him? It feels more natural and less like an history lesson just as the battle starts.

    To be entirely honest, that line was the only thing that reminded me that I was in Nosgoth, because otherwise it's just steampunky humans against monsters (the vampires eat more that they drink the blood of their victims).
    That's why I think it's really important that you use the LoK vampire aesthetics for the ones in Nosgoth, with evolved ears, feet and hands. I mean, it's one of the only thing you can borrow from the IP for this game.





    Okay, that's quite a lot, I'll update or make a new post if I think of other things, but for now I'm going to bed!
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 25th Oct 2013 at 16:02. Reason: Event is for Alpha testing, not Beta.

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by Dagren
    Gameplay
    Scout
    Let's talk about the bow. I haven't played enough to be sure, but not charged up it felt quite useless to me. The problem is when a Vampire gets too close, you can't do anything but throw daggers every 6seconds or so. Because aiming down sights with the right mouse button changes the view to a really narrow FOV and then your character takes up a third of the screen, so aiming at a Vampire that is too close and moving is impossible. I guess it's to balance the game but if so I'm not sure a normal attack with the bow even has its place in the game, if it's gonna remove only 5% of an enemy's total hps. If the only thing a scout can do in close combat is wait until his dagger cooldown is over, why not make it a defensive move, like a block with the bow that if timed right reduces the amount of damage from an incoming attack.
    Let's just say that I found the bow controls stange. Here's what I expected going in: the longer I hold the left mouve button, the more powerful the attack, the right mouse button zooms in a little to help me aim. That's how most games do bows. As for Nosgoth it works so you can't use a powerful attack with your wide field of view, to balance things like I said before, am I right? If not, then the bow controls are just strange.
    I have raised similar issues with the bow thus far (which other Alpha players agreed with - at least those I discussed it with). Corey said we are supposed to hold down LMB to rapid fire arrows, but in the current gameplay and with the speed of the standard bow, that's kinda pointless. The fire rate of me quick-tapping to fire arrows is the same as when I hold down the button.

    Right now after two session of 'Scout only' I feel the controls should just be changed to what they have been in a ton of games. It's more intuitive for new players and there is nothing I have found right now that really gives a benefit with the whole rapid-fire. You are more likely to give off a shot or two in close range, then dagger, then turn and high-tail it off until the CD is through. Or you already died by that time.

    Originally Posted by Dagren
    Reaver
    I really like the climbing element. Even if I spent 2 minutes figuring out how to do it (I mean, shift?). You don't need to make a tutorial, just have prompts the first few times a player stands near a wall (like "hold [key] to climb") then remove it after those few times, when the player has figured it out.
    I felt weak as a human, but when I was a lone Reaver against 4 of them (the other players had left), they just murdered me over and over again. So I guess I just sucked at both roles.
    Both sides are squishy. Even the Tyrant, who is supposed to be the big-burly tank. Except when you use Endure Pain. Personally I no longer use the ability, I hate not being able to attack

    There is a thread on the forums right now to explain controls. But you are right, help prompts are probably a good idea later. And probably planned.

    Originally Posted by Dagren
    General
    Movement
    I just found it strange going in to not be able to jump. Sometimes I got stuck in crates that I could easily have jumped over. It makes it strange for Vampires when jumping off of roofs when you want to get to the next roof, I wasn't sure if I my Reaver was going to jump or just drop down: it removes that element of control from the player.
    As someone who played Space Marine Multiplayer for months, I rarely seem to miss the jumping. However I do agree that it'd be nice to have the option to jump as a Vampire - but not essencial. I know you can jump between buildings when you hold the Shift key. But on low ground it's a bit clunky. Especially on crates.

    Originally Posted by Dagren
    Asymmetric teams and game course
    Let's just say that playing with random people isn't going to be fun to most people. Humans not coordinated, going their own separate ways is just not going to work. One guy not following the group and your entire team is F***ed. You NEED to put clan support into this game, because I don't see random people coming and having fun just with PUGs in the long term. It's not like in TF2 where you do need some coordination. Here, YOU EFFING NEED IT.

    Also can player join during a match? because 3 people on my team left during the Vampire phase and I was alone against 4 Humans sticking together, so the match is essentially done.
    Public Games thus far seem to work reasonably well and it will get better with VOIP being better refined, but a focus on organized play is clearly there. Some kind of league-system for competitive play might be cool to have. Could see that be good if Spectator from UE3 is working.

    However you raise an issue I myself found annoying. The current matchmaking reminds me heavily of the console bs from PC ports. It's functional, but for a PC game I'd much prefer if we had a server browser that is done like it's been done for years on the PC. UE3 actually comes with one, I believe. Not entirely sure right now, I'd have to check. It seems you can be matched mid-game with on-going gameplay, but I think the code needs work. I found that often the games stay empty even after a match is over and nobody is tossed in. Seems to have too much priority on making new matches? *looks at Corey, Eric and Monkey*

    Originally Posted by Dagren
    UI
    Menu
    I'm sure that the thing you're working on right now, but the menus need some work: the placing, spacing of things, ..., but also controls like the scrolls: the mouse wheel doesn't always work strangely (I had to roll it for a bit before the game registered and began to scroll the list in the menu).
    Also, in the main menu, can I create groups, add my friends, so I can begin a game with my friends instead of random people? Will there be a server browser/list. I'm not sure how it will work in the end, here I just had to click play and it found a game for me, filled it with players and started the game.
    You go to Play, then you invite a friend. It makes a group and you queue. It could use an invite button though.


    Originally Posted by Dagren
    Skill Icons
    In game skill icons are too hard to read. You know it's not right when you have to go to the load-out screen to read what it does. I didn't know what the Reaver "lightning reflex" skill was about, especially when the only feedback on screen is "you can't attack right now" and the blue light thing. The icon is pretty but is having a hard time telling me what the skill does. From the UI, I don't even ave the name of the skill, which describes it better that any icon. Use tropes for these icons, for instance on the reaver reflex thing, have the arrows coming at the Reaver horizontal instead of vertical, hitting a transparent mirror image of the reaver while the real, not transparent reaver stands on the side, with a succession of mirror images between the two going from not transparent to transparent.

    Granted, when you know how to play you don't need those icons, but why having them at all? to teach beginners! We all want that easy to pick up, difficult to master game, right?
    There is the Shop, the Armory and a Loadout menu. I don't think they need to do much more there. If you look for it, you find and can read it. I myself was a bit confused that Tyrant's suddenly stopped attacking in my first 2 games as well, then I found it's Endure Pain doing it to me. It's reasonable. The only other option would be to display Tooltips when pressing TAB below the score screen for the current loadout.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Dagren

    Technical
    Networking
    I had quite a lot of lag (network lag), even if the game registered a fairly good ping (~100ms). I think I had spikes every 10 seconds or so, which made it quite hard to be remotely efficient with the bow. Unfortunately I forgot to note the server's name. I'm playing in Europe, from France.
    I'm playing from Germany and had the same problems. The game showed a really good ping, but at my first match it was unplayable sometimes. This was especially annoying because i suffered the first 15-20 minutes from this "server finding" bug mentioned by some players in the technical discussion forum. Would be great if you can fix that.[/QUOTE]

    Originally Posted by Dagren
    LOK IP
    To be entirely honest, that line was the only thing that reminded me that I was in Nosgoth, because otherwise it's just steampunky humans against monsters (the vampires eat more that they drink the blood of their victims).
    That's why I think it's really important that you use the LoK vampire aesthetics for the ones in Nosgoth, with evolved ears, feet and hands. I mean, it's one of the only thing you can borrow from the IP for this game.
    I totally agree with you. Though it's fun to play, it doesn't feel really like nosgoth. I enjoyed the lines of the Vampires, especially from the sentinels, but that's all. I don't think you have to use the designs from Soul Reaver, but i woo would prefer some degenerations from the vampires. But that's just a first impression, since i just played two maps so far it may be a little early for me to say this. I think you could bring out the nosgoth universe a little bit more too by using some clanbanners on some maps. Maybe maps of attacked vampire strongholds or something like that where you can see some of the clanbanners hanging around or something like that.