View Poll Results: Yay or Nay?

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Thread: Scout: Grappling hook

Scout: Grappling hook

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by Zurtonn
    You have no clue of how overpowered the grappling is. Me and my team have been using it for the last 2 esl cups. We were the first team taking it in to competitive play. It has been working out greatly for our team. Also we see other teams using it as a respons.
    The issue currently is how easy it is to be abused, on freeport (last ESL) there's a particular spot on the map where it is nearly impossible to approach, you gave us a good run with that stratergy, but its the sort of thing that can be countered

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    16
    ofc silent and to that countre we have to find a new countre and so on It's al about changing the meta =D

  3. #28
    indeed, see you next sunday zurton... im a enjoy killing that pouncy reaver of yours!

  4. #29

    grappling hook

    any scouts here ?
    don't you guys think that grappling hook needs to be improved a little bit
    we should be able to use it in more places than about 5 spots in the whole map which just 3 or 2 of these spots are worthy !
    I run camo & grapple on my scout ( when I am playing with friends to cover my back ) , and that leaves me with just my bow and aiming skills to do dmg , I actually do pretty well with it , but against experienced players , it's useless coz they know the exact spots where grappling works and I end up mind dominated or focused by deceivers and sentinels before the fight even starts , then I am forced to swap to hunter ...

    even if your team manages to cover you , you get called noob invis camper then the other team just swaps to summoners and spam artillery on you ...

    would it be over powered if players can use it more freely
    absolutely not , coz you have to give up volley, humans' strongest area denial skill , and once you take a shot (whether it hits or not) , your position is revealed and you have to change position constantly which make your dps even less coz you are wasting time re-positioning

    this skill in its current state is simply "good until you face good players" , and any sane player would choose the constantly mobile- high dps- CC equipped hunter over it when actually trying to win .

    so, what do you think ?

  5. #30
    I personally don't use grappling hook that much, but i will say that the times i tried it out i found out there are very few places you can use them.
    I always thought it was almost the whole map (that you could use it) but turns out it's only like 6 or 8 spots in whole maps usually.

    I would definitely vote for more grappling points. As long as the new places are not too high of course, or else it would be unfair.

  6. #31
    I definitely agree there is room for improvement so far as grappling hook is concerned. If not giving it far more places to be used, maybe giving it a small, close range CC or damage mechanic so it isn't completely useless once you're on a roof would be in order.

  7. #32
    Originally Posted by Equanimityjohn
    I definitely agree there is room for improvement so far as grappling hook is concerned. If not giving it far more places to be used, maybe giving it a small, close range CC or damage mechanic so it isn't completely useless once you're on a roof would be in order.
    Or make it faster? so it's also useful for getting away.

  8. #33

    Let's talk about the hook.

    Hey folks, I just wanted to give some feedback about my favorite human class, the scout!

    I really enjoy the grappling hook, I like that aspect and paired with camouflage and a warbow, makes a great support class. Sadly it comes at the lack of volley, or turret, so it has to be a sacrifice worth making, which brings me to the point of this post.

    I feel that the majority of the maps don't have adequate hook positions, or enough of them. Freeport is a good example, there are 7 hook nodes, two of which lead to the same place - which is fine. However those two, and one other are the only ones that lead to a place you can't already get to. The north hook node leads to several buildings, which I think it an okay spot, but the rest of the map lacks in that respect. I don't believe trading volley or turret for hook is worth it in the slightest. I feel the same way about Sommerdamm, and The Fane. The Crucible is tricky because it's a height orientated map, giving the scout too many hooks can lead to a really good advantage. I believe though, the Crucible is environmentally cluttered, making hooks less appropriate.

    If we look at maps like Valeholm, and Provance, both maps have good hook nodes where you can see an adequate amount, and don't leave you ridiculously exposed. Some of these hook nodes lead to other buildings, which is great. I believe this is what Freeport, Sommerdamm, Crucible, and The Fane are missing.

    I also don't think that using a grappling hook defensively works out that well, since a vampire will most likely just follow you up and kill you there. If you do manage to escape, you risk taking 100-200 fall damage depending on where you hook. I think that if grappling hook is to be a replacement for great zoning and support abilities, it should be equally as good.

    Thoughts?

  9. #34
    I'd say give the hook the ability to yank vampires down when they try to escape in a similar fashion to the whip, that would definitely make it a more compelling choice for the slot for sure. But I've always felt the idea behind it was giving up the utility from that slot for a greater vantage point on the map. Depending on where you are and the position of your team, you can do some nasty damage if you play the scout using grappling hook if you have really good aim.

    I've played against some scout players using hook, swift bow, and knives. They did some ridiculous chip damage on some of the maps before the vampires could even get close, especially on those provance bunkers in the grassy area. That being said, I don't suggest using hook unless you have amazing aim, you'll get more mileage out of volley/trap/turret.
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  10. #35
    Originally Posted by Khalith
    I'd say give the hook the ability to yank vampires down when they try to escape
    Similar idea: It could be used to snag and yank down rooftop dwellers. Unsuspecting Reavers getting ready to pounce, Summoners camping out while their Ghouls work, a Deceiver in the middle of mind control...

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by Khalith
    I'd say give the hook the ability to yank vampires down when they try to escape in a similar fashion to the whip, that would definitely make it a more compelling choice for the slot for sure. But I've always felt the idea behind it was giving up the utility from that slot for a greater vantage point on the map. Depending on where you are and the position of your team, you can do some nasty damage if you play the scout using grappling hook if you have really good aim.

    I've played against some scout players using hook, swift bow, and knives. They did some ridiculous chip damage on some of the maps before the vampires could even get close, especially on those provance bunkers in the grassy area. That being said, I don't suggest using hook unless you have amazing aim, you'll get more mileage out of volley/trap/turret.
    That's what I was getting at, Provance and Valeholm are really the only two where you can give up those abilities for better vantage points. My concern is that the other maps don't have this option because the lack of vantage points. Most of them are just hook nodes to places you can already go. Some places you can't even see an entire section of the map from any angle because it lacks that node. Most of the places you can go with the hook and see, aren't good places for your teammates.

    http://i.imgur.com/78xZAyG.jpg

    The south-western part of the map for example has no hook point, let alone line of sight from anywhere. The nearest vantage point is that northern hook node, but that house blocks that entire dock area.

  12. #37
    Bla-bla-bla-yes.

    However, I consider the opposite. That perhaps the skills it is replacing are in need of nerfs.
    Regardless, it seems accurate enough that hook is not an adequate replacement for Volley.

    The event in which you can use hook efficiently, to my knowledge, are as such.
    A) Your have a dedicated/supportive support/team. ->- No real need for the unusual position and the use of such increases team workload.
    B) You are a VERY adequate Scout. ->- Same as before, just find a place with minimal sneaking locations to you and listen for dec's.
    C) The enemy team is mostly bad ->- You're already winning, why bother?
    D) Both your team and the enemy team have bad players but you are decent enough. ->- You have less backup.... risky?

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by JudgeScootaloo
    However, I consider the opposite. That perhaps the skills it is replacing are in need of nerfs.
    Regardless, it seems accurate enough that hook is not an adequate replacement for Volley.
    Going by that slot:
    Turret- Fine as is imo, high damage yes but with a very small area so I consider it pretty balanced.

    Trap- I think is largely fine, I personally feel the cooldown shouldn't be triggered until it goes off but I definitely don't think it's OP or really think the ability needs to change that badly, whether it stays as is or gets changed to what I suggested is fine either way.

    Volley- Definitely a great ability but I'm iffy on nerfing it. Maybe I could see nerfing the duration or the damage ticks a little bit but the ability has some major drawbacks and gives you plenty of warning time to get out of it. If the devs decide that human's aoe and area denial needs a nerf, I can definitely see Volley being a casualty of that.

    Originally Posted by JudgeScootaloo
    A) Your have a dedicated/supportive support/team. ->- No real need for the unusual position and the use of such increases team workload.
    B) You are a VERY adequate Scout. ->- Same as before, just find a place with minimal sneaking locations to you and listen for dec's.
    C) The enemy team is mostly bad ->- You're already winning, why bother?
    D) Both your team and the enemy team have bad players but you are decent enough. ->- You have less backup.... risky?
    Sounds about right to me. But given the places you can grapple up to on most of the maps, you're almost always better off using the alternatives to the slot. I really love the flavor of the loadout for hook/camo, getting a sniping perch where you can snipe unseen, but the loadout is just not as good as the others.
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  14. #39
    agree, map need more grapping hook places.

  15. #40
    Maybe a way to help with "getting down" with the ability would be to simply add a grapple point that leads you to someplace you can get down from? Like in Freeport, you could have a grapple point on any number of other rooftops that lead to safe ledges below.

    I want to use the grapple more often because I loved using it in Provence, up until the other team got wise to my tactics and started climbing the barracks on the hill in pairs to get at me. It seems like it could be a super fun ability, it just needs something to help it be more of a reasonable exchange for the abilities it takes the space for.

    I really like the idea of it working as a hook to pull vampires down, or even just as a really powerful short-range blunt-force-trauma gun. Getting hit in the face with a grappling hook would be brutal!

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