Thread: Submarines can be followed by eye even at depth 4?

Submarines can be followed by eye even at depth 4?

  1. #1

    Submarines can be followed by eye even at depth 4?

    From what I got from the tutorial and the manual, diving to depth level 4 in a sub makes it go off-radar. That works fine... but... If a Destroyer goes in Depth charge mode and fires, he can still follow you "by eye" since he can see your hull and stalk you until you have to resurface for air or because your hull is about to implode.

    What's the point of depth level 4 if they can do that? If at least they had a limited amount of Depth Charges (just like torpedoes) the SS would have a chance, but no...

    There's just no escape... if a DD is following you without looking at the radar and stays on top of you that way, you're dead eventually.

    Am I the only one who doesn't find that very well balanced?
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Originally Posted by BlackLotus
    From what I got from the tutorial and the manual, diving to depth level 4 in a sub makes it go off-radar. That works fine... but... If a Destroyer goes in Depth charge mode and fires, he can still follow you "by eye" since he can see your hull and stalk you until you have to resurface for air or because your hull is about to implode.

    What's the point of depth level 4 if they can do that? If at least they had a limited amount of Depth Charges (just like torpedoes) the SS would have a chance, but no...

    There's just no escape... if a DD is following you without looking at the radar and stays on top of you that way, you're dead eventually.

    Am I the only one who doesn't find that very well balanced?
    The subs in this game are pretty weak. Like what's the purpose of having a level 3 when you can't fire torps from that depth, can still be seen on sonar and can still be depth charged

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by zwillyc
    The subs in this game are pretty weak. Like what's the purpose of having a level 3 when you can't fire torps from that depth, can still be seen on sonar and can still be depth charged
    You're actually harder to target from above (with depth charge planes) at depth 3, and DD's can't lock on you from as far away. It doesn't make that much sense to me much either though.

    However, not fireing the torps at that depth is realistic. On a real sub, you can't fire torps below a certain depth because the pressure would flood the torpedo tubes and leak...
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    24
    Originally Posted by BlackLotus
    You're actually harder to target from above (with depth charge planes) at depth 3, and DD's can't lock on you from as far away. It doesn't make that much sense to me much either though.

    However, not fireing the torps at that depth is realistic. On a real sub, you can't fire torps below a certain depth because the pressure would flood the torpedo tubes and leak...
    The only good thing is you can still follow your identified target at depth 3 whereas in depth 4 everything is "unknown".

  5. #5
    who says that Subs are ineffective, have no experience

    I once killed 2 carriers, 1 BB and 1 DD, and heavely damaged the other one before i got bombed

    the key is that you have too know that you cant escape with a Sub,
    here counts:
    the best defense, is offense

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by whoopy91
    who says that Subs are ineffective, have no experience

    I once killed 2 carriers, 1 BB and 1 DD, and heavely damaged the other one before i got bombed

    the key is that you have too know that you cant escape with a Sub,
    here counts:
    the best defense, is offense
    I never said they were not effective, I too am very proficient with one... but if you have a skilled DD tailing you, there's no escape... The second you get to 2nd depth to fire torps at him, you risk taking depth charge damage. The only way you can escape by going to depth 4, is to have a friend to get his attention on the surface so he gets off the depth-charge view and loses you... then you can turn away and go back to depth 3 when you're out of his radar range, and hopefully strike with your rear torps in the same process... but DD's are fast and can usually avoid most torps unless you're very close.
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  7. #7
    DDs are very tough if ur sub- i remember i was commanding a DD when i picked up an enemy sub & i chased it for ages- it managed to shake me off after i damaged it quite a bit- i got distracted by something else & i came back to see the AI had done a really poor job (as usual)- i could see a bunch of torpedos coming straight for me- but luckily i managed to avoid them. (one came really close)- i bet the guy controlling that sub was so annoyed. his best chance was gone & i quickly destroyed him after that.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by FreeloaderUK
    DDs are very tough if ur sub- i remember i was commanding a DD when i picked up an enemy sub & i chased it for ages- it managed to shake me off after i damaged it quite a bit- i got distracted by something else & i came back to see the AI had done a really poor job (as usual)- i could see a bunch of torpedos coming straight for me- but luckily i managed to avoid them. (one came really close)- i bet the guy controlling that sub was so annoyed. his best chance was gone & i quickly destroyed him after that.
    LOL That sounds like a game I had on that map where each team starts with 2 subs and you have to destroy the other team's carriers. There's no land in this map...

    Was it that map for you too? I was a sub, and chased this DD forever. The DD got me with deck guns a bit (lowered me to half health) while I was taking a puff of air, then I dived again and went back to depth 4. I circled around when the DD seemed to have lost me and fired a spread of torps just SLIGHTLY too much to his rear and one did get very close... but then he managed to chase me while I was still diving at depth 4 and finished me off with a depth charge. The whole chase lasted quite a while, and I had time to almost sink a CA in the process (which was close to the DD).

    Nick is Ticker... what was yours ingame?
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  9. #9
    A sub chasing a destroyer? Why?

    Coral Sea is the map and I play it as a sub a lot. I try to avoid DDs at all costs. My goal is to get my sub to the carriers. If I pick up a DD, it makes it very difficult. Take the damage penalty and use lvl4 well before they are in range. If they've picked you up on active sonar then set a course, dive to lvl4, and then plot a different course. One that will take you away from his forward active sonar. That way you can soon rise to lvl3 to stop damage and he won't know where you are. If he gets distracted by something else or you get out of range you can use the time to surface and get O2.

    The point of subbing is to use stealth and never let the destroyer know exactly where you are. Trying to fight one is futile unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, spend your time sneaking to your target. And that does not mean going to periscope depth and plotting a direct course.

    Coral Sea is a fun map and when played right, with good people, it will be a long fight.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Evilmonkee
    A sub chasing a destroyer? Why?

    Coral Sea is the map and I play it as a sub a lot. I try to avoid DDs at all costs. My goal is to get my sub to the carriers. If I pick up a DD, it makes it very difficult. Take the damage penalty and use lvl4 well before they are in range. If they've picked you up on active sonar then set a course, dive to lvl4, and then plot a different course. One that will take you away from his forward active sonar. That way you can soon rise to lvl3 to stop damage and he won't know where you are. If he gets distracted by something else or you get out of range you can use the time to surface and get O2.

    The point of subbing is to use stealth and never let the destroyer know exactly where you are. Trying to fight one is futile unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, spend your time sneaking to your target. And that does not mean going to periscope depth and plotting a direct course.

    Coral Sea is a fun map and when played right, with good people, it will be a long fight.
    I didn't GO for the DD, it was chasing me and I was trying to be defensive (best defense is a good offense)... It had been tailing me for over 15 minutes and I couldn't lose him... I got my hull to 40% just by trying to evade him at depth level 4... but he used the depth charge view to follow me by eye... THAT'S what my whole post is about... I usually try to go away from them as much as posible, but on that map, the DD's start looking for subs in pairs most of the time, so you're always bound to pop on the radar eventually and if they can start following you by eye, it's all over unless they get distracted and you see it...
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  11. #11
    OK, I understand what you're saying. And I do totally agree that the DDs ability to track you visually while you are at lvl4(especially if they crank their monitor's brightness/gamma settings) is total BS.

    But...

    One of the beautiful things about this game is teamwork. It's hard to come by for sure, but I've been playing with a group of regular folks that always use Teamspeak. It's awesome in that situation if you've got a DD tracking you even while at lvl4. You get one of your buds to distract him either with another ship or dive-bombers, etc. I understand this is an ideal situation and is not going to happen in all games.

    I really hope that when a patch is released that it addresses a whole lot of these concerns.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Evilmonkee
    OK, I understand what you're saying. And I do totally agree that the DDs ability to track you visually while you are at lvl4(especially if they crank their monitor's brightness/gamma settings) is total BS.

    But...

    One of the beautiful things about this game is teamwork. It's hard to come by for sure, but I've been playing with a group of regular folks that always use Teamspeak. It's awesome in that situation if you've got a DD tracking you even while at lvl4. You get one of your buds to distract him either with another ship or dive-bombers, etc. I understand this is an ideal situation and is not going to happen in all games.

    I really hope that when a patch is released that it addresses a whole lot of these concerns.
    Like you said, great teamwork is hard to come buy, but I've found several players I often play with too, without teamspeak though and it's just as good. I find teamspeak just takes too long for everybody to get ready (before everybody joined and set their mic properly and all...), and I'm not very patient...
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  13. #13

    Cool ...

    TeamSpeak/Ventrilo are great to use with any online gaming. I hate trying to type in-game. I don't understand your point of view regarding VOIP, but to each his own.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by antiSniper07
    TeamSpeak/Ventrilo are great to use with any online gaming. I hate trying to type in-game. I don't understand your point of view regarding VOIP, but to each his own.
    I know I know... fingers are hurting when you type and you can't type fast enough, it sucks to be old /joking hehe

    I've had good and bad times with teamspeak. Most of the time when I join a public (random) teamspeak server that some guy is hosting, I end up leaving or muting someone in there because I find him too annoying. My patience level is very low, and I can't stand people screaming in my ears or talking over each other.

    I don't dislike VOIP, it just depends on the game... I like it while I play FPS with a good team (like Battlefield 2142 for example, but then it's integrated VOIP...) and where everybody is mature and ordered. I used to be part of Sturmgrenadier, a gaming syndicate of over 300 players, and I was playing Planetside with 50 people + on teamspeak at once (3 platoons of 2-3 squads each) and we had a good system to keep it ordered, were calling "Breaks" to talk and such... but try to get that going on a "last minute" teamspeak server that some random people join... it's impossible, or at leats will take too long.

    When I join a lobby I just wanna play NOW not in 15 minutes.
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  15. #15

    Question ..

    Originally Posted by BlackLotus
    and I was playing Planetside with 50 people + on teamspeak at once (3 platoons of 2-3 squads each) and we had a good system to keep it ordered, were calling "Breaks" to talk and such...
    ?? 50 People in TS?? System?? Ever hear of channels? Why would anyone want to cram into one channel? Each squad gets there own TS channel. In the BF series the Commander orders Squads through his Control Panel, he don't need TS.

    Seriously, you sound like someone that knows nothing about TS making a story up to justify why you don't like it. Sorry, but I can't see 50 people in TS and everyone in the same Channel

    If I misunderstood you, I apologize

    Come to my Vent, I will show you how orderly it can be!

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by BlackLotus
    I know I know... fingers are hurting when you type and you can't type fast enough, it sucks to be old /joking hehe

    I've had good and bad times with teamspeak. Most of the time when I join a public (random) teamspeak server that some guy is hosting, I end up leaving or muting someone in there because I find him too annoying. My patience level is very low, and I can't stand people screaming in my ears or talking over each other.

    I don't dislike VOIP, it just depends on the game... I like it while I play FPS with a good team (like Battlefield 2142 for example, but then it's integrated VOIP...) and where everybody is mature and ordered. I used to be part of Sturmgrenadier, a gaming syndicate of over 300 players, and I was playing Planetside with 50 people + on teamspeak at once (3 platoons of 2-3 squads each) and we had a good system to keep it ordered, were calling "Breaks" to talk and such... but try to get that going on a "last minute" teamspeak server that some random people join... it's impossible, or at leats will take too long.

    When I join a lobby I just wanna play NOW not in 15 minutes.
    <shakes head>

    I just don't get where you are coming from with your argument, both in this and the other threads.

    On one hand you are an admitted TS user and understand what it can bring to a game. Then you profess one of your shortcomings which is impatience. So what is the motivation to rain on other TS user's parade? You are entitled to your opinion of course. I just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish.

    Your original post at least had some validity. You complained about TS Only servers not being properly labeled and people acting rudely to those who refused to comply with the TS request.

    Now you've just seemed to go on a rant about TS in general which is a total non-argument. Either you like to use it or you don't. There is absolutely nobody forcing you to use TS to play and enjoy BS:M. You always retain the ability to create your own NON-TS server or join another one at any time.

    Let's just agree to disagree and put this ranting to bed. We're all here because we enjoy playing this game.

  17. #17
    the game i played the torps missed my bow.

    but in a recent game i played on the coral sea a friend of mine who had a sub got chased by DDs & was near my sub- my sub got destroyed even tho i managed to torp the destroyer- but it gave him time to escape.

    he managed to escape the destroyer for ages by diving down low & changing direction- he managed to slam several volleys into the enemycarrier with forward & aft tubes. the destroyer picked up him up again as he surfaced behind the damaged carrier to get air- so he dived again. the destroyer came right up behind him so he fired his aft tubes & sank the DD lol.

  18. #18

    Thumbs Up

    Originally Posted by Evilmonkee
    Let's just agree to disagree and put this ranting to bed. We're all here because we enjoy playing this game.
    Agreed! Let's play!

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by antiSniper07
    ?? 50 People in TS?? System?? Ever hear of channels? Why would anyone want to cram into one channel? Each squad gets there own TS channel. In the BF series the Commander orders Squads through his Control Panel, he don't need TS.

    Seriously, you sound like someone that knows nothing about TS making a story up to justify why you don't like it. Sorry, but I can't see 50 people in TS and everyone in the same Channel

    If I misunderstood you, I apologize

    Come to my Vent, I will show you how orderly it can be!
    ROFL... apologize then...

    We had one channel for each platoon, and 3 sub-channels for each squads. We used Channel Commanders so the squad leaders and platoon leader could talk to each other without the rest of the squad hearing... We had complex macro to bind to last whisperer so you can have a quick 2-way setup between a driver/gunner for example... I actually wrote some of those macros for the team and helped with the rest (well, just bound keys on my side then exported them, not really a macro). The TS server was dedicated and payed by all the members. There even was a web-view of the TS server so you could see who's online and active without having to login... It also recorded stats to know who was attending to SOP's and such (standard op procedures). It felt like the army, and I'm not making this up... just check out their website and ask questions if you don't believe me: www.sturmgrenadier.com They have been around since 1994 (started with WWI Online)

    That's what I mean... 50 people in one channel.... you crazy man lol


    Evilmonkey, sorry if I'm hard to follow, but I sort of diverted from my original post I admit... My post was a mix of my opinion as well as an actual problem... I'm not against teamspeak per say... You misunderstood me. I just don't find it useful for THIS VERY GAME: Battlestations Midway and I laugh at the ones who believe they are the because they use it and tell the rest they are missing out or don't know what they're talking about.

    That said, enough. I'm tired of it too. I just wanted to get the topic going and I got a few replies I wanted to have (the people who agreed basically). I'll start TS before each game then and if someone asks me to join I'll join (as long as it's not some hyper kid that is)... Just don't expect me to stick around 15 minutes in the lobby. If I start BSM it's to play, not to talk with people... if I wanted that, I'd get out and go see my friends, drink booze or go out somewhere...

    Edit: antiSniper, watch this thread: http://www.sturmgrenadier.com/invisi...howtopic=20283 (Deikan Frost is me...)
    BlackLotus
    Gamespy ID: Ticker | Gamespot ID: Ehxo

  20. #20
    And so Evilmonkee and BlackLotus and antiSniper07 set out on their search to find the Teamspeak server of whom the old man had quoted in the previous thread. Beyond the forums they met HyTech and ModerateN, and there was much rejoicing.

    Yay! Yay!

  21. #21

    Big Grin haha

    Originally Posted by Evilmonkee
    And so Evilmonkee and BlackLotus and antiSniper07 set out on their search to find the Teamspeak server of whom the old man had quoted in the previous thread. Beyond the forums they met HyTech and ModerateN, and there was much rejoicing.

    Yay! Yay!
    Well, me and Lotus are in Ventrilo now, were just missing the Monkee

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