Thread: Why are you doing this to LOK?

Why are you doing this to LOK?

  1. #51
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    Yes indeed:

    Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz
    Firstly, I'm not actually sure that Nosgoth's success is directly tied to the chance of another SP entry in the series. We love the IP and know that it resonates well, so even if Nosgoth was a total flop there's still a chance we'd want to create a single-player LoK experience sometime down the line.

    That said, Nosgoth being successful would only help, as hopefully it would expose the IP to new people and make them interested in future titles.

    Either way, I am *just* a CM. So I could be talking out of my arse here. Please bear that in mind.

  2. #52
    Thanks, that is quite helpful to know. I might even start feeling a bit hopeful about a new single player episode yet...:-)

  3. #53
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    Although this is not what I wanted for the next LoK title, I am over the moon that the series has not been forgotten about. It's been ten years since Defiance and I'd nigh but given up hope of another installment after so many cancellations. I really hope that Nosgoth injects a little potential into a fresh, perhaps rebooted, future into the series. However, the MMO Multiplayer thing isn't exactly for me. I'd be more than happy to play it, being free and all and a LoK game, but PC gaming isn't something I've invested in. Laptop would probably die if I tried it. Any chance of a PS3 release later down the line?

  4. #54
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    Originally Posted by Dantiego
    It's been ten years since Defiance and I'd nigh but given up hope of another installment after so many cancellations.
    What do you mean by "so many cancellations"? There was only one cancelled game between Defiance and Dead Sun. And we didn't even hear about Dead Sun until after Nosgoth was announced.

  5. #55
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    Let's not forget Dark Prophecy, a game that had Blood Omen 2 Kain interact with Soul Reaver Kain. Apparently there were a few others but they escape me.

  6. #56
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    Well, let's not forget Dark Prophecy, as in, "there was one cancelled game between Defiance and Dead Sun". Let's not forget it, as if one could after writing multiple articles on it.

    But people are making a caricature out of Divine Shadow's hard work lately, as if they just skimmed the headline and somehow think this series has had more scrapped games than the human brain can fathom. It's completely invalid. Legacy of Kain has had three known cancelled projects: Kain II, Dark Prophecy and Dead Sun. Isn't that bad enough without trying to inflate the number?

  7. #57
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    Forgive my exacerbation, but I meant that there have been quite a few ideas knocked off the band wagon of LoK throughout the years. But if you want to be particular about it then you have the titles in a nut shell. I didn't mean to prey on any pet peeve.

  8. #58
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    Personally I am looking forward to this game, though there are some things that feel strange to me.

    1. The playable races are not very appealing imo. Humans have never been presented in a positive light in the LoK universe. They were shown to be either fanatical maniacs or pathetic weaklings, depending on the era. On the other hand, the vampires are the devolved offspring of Dumah, Tyrel and Raziel. Kain abandoned all of them, and IIRC even Raziel pitied them before slaughtering them to get top Kain.

    2. The game takes place in a dead timeline and it feels kind of futile. This era in the game is replaced after Defiance.

    It would have been nice to play in the BO2 era, if there was some kind of "window" in the lore to allow small scale skirmishes between Vorador's vampires and the Hylden. I find the Hylden sympathetic, since they were kinda screwed over by the ancient vampires and they're fighting to get out of the demon realm. Fighting as one of Kain's allies is cool by default. Both of those factions would be appealing for me to play as. Also, the BO2 era is active and concurrent with Defiance, so it doesn't have the futile feeling of fighting in the SR1 era.

    Maybe future expansions of the game can add zones that take place in different eras of LoK with factions that correspond to each era, for example Ancient vampires vs Hylden in ancient Nosgoth, or vampires vs Moebius' hunters pre-BO1.

  9. #59
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    About no.1 - I think humans are very appealing in this game and I think they were pretty cool "bad" guys throughout the series. These vampires are not devolved yet I must add as well.

    "2. The game takes place in a dead timeline and it feels kind of futile. This era in the game is replaced after Defiance."

    That is incorrect, the period between Raziel´s exile and his return was in every timeline and wasn´t substituted by anything.

  10. #60
    Originally Posted by biribobili
    Humans have never been presented in a positive light in the LoK universe. They were shown to be either fanatical maniacs or pathetic weaklings, depending on the era.
    They aren't being portrayed in a positive light in this game either. In fact, they could even be seen as the bad guys from the perspective that they want to wipe out every single vampire, when the vampires merely want to enslave the humans. I know it's moral relativism, but Nosgoth has always been rife with that.

  11. #61
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    If vampires existed in this world, took it over and enslaved the remains of humanity they didn't obliterate, I cannot think anyone would want anything else than to fight and destroy them all. I can't see these humans as the bad guys here; they're just trying to survive, paying attention to logic and survival instincts. Unlike some other oppressor that has motivations you can reason with after war might end, this is a bit unique. Vampires don't simply enslave humans. They eat them. The humans are kept alive as food. You can't negotiate with a species that sees you as dinner.

    Worse than that, humans are used for labor, food, and their dead are used as a means to propagate. The vampires use the humans own dead against them. No, humans would be nuts to want anything else other than the destruction of all vampires. Even one left alive is one that would eat your neighbor, your family, etc., and could use your dead loved ones to make another of its kind. It would be almost as goofy as the end of Shaun of the Dead, trying to coexist with zombies.

    And about humans being weak in the series, we only ever play as Kain -- the most super vampire probably to ever exist -- and later Raziel, who was far stronger after his resurrection. His vampire brethren didn't stand a chance, so humanity sure wouldn't. The Sarafan were pretty tough in SR2, though.

    You have to figure that the first Sarafan order nearly wiped out all vampires, and then Moebius' vampire hunters actually did, except for Kain, so they weren't actually as weak as we're made to view them as when pounding them into nothing as Kain, or Raziel. Even with Moebius' staff as a means for doing their purges, that staff can't be everywhere with every one of the order, so I assume they were able to hold their own even without it.

  12. #62
    Originally Posted by The_Hylden
    If vampires existed in this world, took it over and enslaved the remains of humanity they didn't obliterate, I cannot think anyone would want anything else than to fight and destroy them all. I can't see these humans as the bad guys here; they're just trying to survive, paying attention to logic and survival instincts. Unlike some other oppressor that has motivations you can reason with after war might end, this is a bit unique. Vampires don't simply enslave humans. They eat them. The humans are kept alive as food. You can't negotiate with a species that sees you as dinner.

    Worse than that, humans are used for labor, food, and their dead are used as a means to propagate. The vampires use the humans own dead against them. No, humans would be nuts to want anything else other than the destruction of all vampires. Even one left alive is one that would eat your neighbor, your family, etc., and could use your dead loved ones to make another of its kind. It would be almost as goofy as the end of Shaun of the Dead, trying to coexist with zombies.

    And about humans being weak in the series, we only ever play as Kain -- the most super vampire probably to ever exist -- and later Raziel, who was far stronger after his resurrection. His vampire brethren didn't stand a chance, so humanity sure wouldn't. The Sarafan were pretty tough in SR2, though.

    You have to figure that the first Sarafan order nearly wiped out all vampires, and then Moebius' vampire hunters actually did, except for Kain, so they weren't actually as weak as we're made to view them as when pounding them into nothing as Kain, or Raziel. Even with Moebius' staff as a means for doing their purges, that staff can't be everywhere with every one of the order, so I assume they were able to hold their own even without it.
    I was only responding to biribobili's statement about them being portrayed as the good guys. They're justified in their actions, but that doesn't make them saints.

  13. #63
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    Lets not also forget that this game is still in development. Things are going to be changed, added, and possibly re-written. The purpose of this game is for people to have fun and to get new faces into the LOK world (and make money, of course). Given time, and popularity, Nosgoth could lead to many greater and bigger things that would make old time fans like myself cry with joy. You never know. I am personally going to continue with this game. When it is opened to the public it may be the best online free game available. You NEVER KNOW.

  14. #64
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    About my comment on humans, when I said they were never portrayed in a positive light I didn't mean "good guys", I meant that they were never particularly likeable to me, but I agree that they were pretty good as villains. Normally humans should have been totally justified in their vampire persecution, since vampires are the apex predators of Nosgoth and humans are their food source. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but IIRC the Sarafan during BO2 had also enslaved the rest of humanity in their crusade against vampires. I wasn't really sympathetic towards the human warrior caste after that, though I did feel some pity for the vulnerable humans in the citadel in SR1.
    Originally Posted by RainaAudron
    About no.1 - I think humans are very appealing in this game and I think they were pretty cool "bad" guys throughout the series. These vampires are not devolved yet I must add as well.

    "2. The game takes place in a dead timeline and it feels kind of futile. This era in the game is replaced after Defiance."

    That is incorrect, the period between Raziel´s exile and his return was in every timeline and wasn´t substituted by anything.
    Oh, I see. I always assumed that after Defiance the world is healed with Kain defeating the Elder God and restoring the pillars, and so I thought that the wasteland during SR1 would never happen.

    Tsk, I thought I had my LoK lore down pat, but you guys are experts

  15. #65
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    Originally Posted by Wraithblade6
    I think we should avoid e-sports. Sure there's a ton of money in it, but you know we're just going to have Koreans take over, and they probably don't care about LoK in the least. Who are you catering to? I wouldn't expect the USA to suddenly change it's cultural views on gaming.
    One thing I would like to point out is that the major Differences between Europe and the US should get some recognition

  16. #66
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    Nothing has been resolved in the series yet. The Elder God is still alive, Vorador is dead but is suppose to somehow be alive for BO2, Janos is no where to be seen, the Pillars haven't been restored, and Kain, because of this, hasn't yet saved Nosgoth. Those who think the end to Defiance is where it should stay ended should watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy and abruptly turn it off right when Aragorn receives the anduril sword from Elrod the night before the grand battle and final showdowns. Would that have been satisfying enough, if after all that it stopped right there instead?

  17. #67
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    Well Janos ended up in the Demon dimention at the end of BO2 so as of the current story arc he hasn't come back out.

  18. #68
    "Dear blueobelix,

    Haven’t had the opportunity to play Nosgoth yet? Sorry for the wait and thank you for your patience. In the meantime, here’s a quick update on what’s been happening in the Nosgoth Closed Alpha."
    I call this mockery
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    Go to your master, then. I release you to the Wheel.

  19. #69
    Nothing more cruel than a notice about the Alpha Test you're not invited to.

    I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

    You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*

  20. #70
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    Originally Posted by TheIrtar
    I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

    You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*
    Let us know how that works out for you
    Square Enix London Studios Community Manager
    Nosgoth Community : Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch

  21. #71
    Originally Posted by TheIrtar
    Nothing more cruel than a notice about the Alpha Test you're not invited to.

    I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

    You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*
    as a matter of fact, for your instance sir,
    "Haven’t had the opportunity to play Nosgoth yet? Sorry "
    sounds more like an ironic: ops, we slipped our button to blueobely instead of blueobelix, tsk tsk tsk, that's a pitty.
    Professionalism at it's finest. If they are going to do make Nosgoth as they PR, i preffer not to test the alpha/beta.

    "Let us know if that works for you"
    As a matter of fact, considering the trailer and the PvP (Assassin's Creed Multiplayer overplayed already) I do really think a 10 year old could do a better game if he/she'd had the money ... considering the age, the workers to do the ideas for him/her.
    Fusioning the existing successful trends, shooter and PvP plus Nosgoth doesn't mean you did a great fusion.
    I reccomend Game Dev Tycoon to you guys.
    signature image
    Go to your master, then. I release you to the Wheel.

  22. #72
    Originally Posted by TheIrtar
    Nothing more cruel than a notice about the Alpha Test you're not invited to.

    I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

    You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*
    +1 for a Futurama reference.

  23. #73
    Originally Posted by blueobelix
    "Dear blueobelix,

    Haven’t had the opportunity to play Nosgoth yet? Sorry for the wait and thank you for your patience. In the meantime, here’s a quick update on what’s been happening in the Nosgoth Closed Alpha."
    I call this mockery
    I was thinking the exact same thing. I straight shot to the reproductive organ after constant email checking for days.

  24. #74
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    Originally Posted by The_Hylden
    If vampires existed in this world, took it over and enslaved the remains of humanity they didn't obliterate, I cannot think anyone would want anything else than to fight and destroy them all. I can't see these humans as the bad guys here; they're just trying to survive, paying attention to logic and survival instincts. Unlike some other oppressor that has motivations you can reason with after war might end, this is a bit unique. Vampires don't simply enslave humans. They eat them. The humans are kept alive as food. You can't negotiate with a species that sees you as dinner.

    Worse than that, humans are used for labor, food, and their dead are used as a means to propagate. The vampires use the humans own dead against them. No, humans would be nuts to want anything else other than the destruction of all vampires. Even one left alive is one that would eat your neighbor, your family, etc., and could use your dead loved ones to make another of its kind. It would be almost as goofy as the end of Shaun of the Dead, trying to coexist with zombies.
    It's interesting to point out all the reasons that the humans have for hating the vampires. I suppose the cultists in SR 1 were worshipping them, but probably in the hope that they would get turned one day. The humans I suppose - it's worth remembering too - were not terribly happy to have the Hylden as their oppressors in the form of the Sarafan Lord and co. But as you say, a race that doesn't just see you as food has got more opportunity to negotiate, and possibly manipulate and control you. I should think the Hylden would have probably annihilated the humans if they had succeeded entering the gate in force, maybe keeping a few for pets. They have even less use for the humans than the vampires do really. I wonder what Hylden eat? Maybe it's fruit and nuts, that's my guess. The Ancients probably started the war for that very region.

    Originally Posted by biribobili
    About my comment on humans, when I said they were never portrayed in a positive light I didn't mean "good guys", I meant that they were never particularly likeable to me, but I agree that they were pretty good as villains. Normally humans should have been totally justified in their vampire persecution, since vampires are the apex predators of Nosgoth and humans are their food source. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but IIRC the Sarafan during BO2 had also enslaved the rest of humanity in their crusade against vampires. I wasn't really sympathetic towards the human warrior caste after that, though I did feel some pity for the vulnerable humans in the citadel in SR1.
    I suppose the main thing with the humies is this they are not an "ideal" prey race for the vampires. The same as we don't farm chimpanzees (well apart from to inject them with things, which seems to be fortunately going out of fashion), it must be very troubling trying to control a race that is potentially constantly conspiring against you. The humans have all the behaviour patterns of the "priestly" caste in Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals. They are weak, but turn this weakness inwards and make their war on the vampires a moral crusade, which is probably why Kain thinks they're pathetic, and Raziel eventually comes to this conclusion, even though he is initially enchanted by the idea of their crusaders, the Sarafan. The humans can be hypocritical, cruel and vicious to their own kind too, as they live in constant fear of outsiders contaminating them, although perhaps different human groups have different ideas about this, which could present some scope for an interesting narrative about the different factions within the Nosgoth era rebels.

    Originally Posted by The_Hylden

    And about humans being weak in the series, we only ever play as Kain -- the most super vampire probably to ever exist -- and later Raziel, who was far stronger after his resurrection. His vampire brethren didn't stand a chance, so humanity sure wouldn't. The Sarafan were pretty tough in SR2, though.
    I'm interested in how Kain fits in with his vampire lieutenants in the Nosgoth era. Obviously he's conspicuous by his absence. By leaving (probably in a chronoplast or something) he's in a way abandoned his empire. However much he loves ruling, he can't rule over a wasteland eternally, so he must give it up. In the same way that Kain was happy (or saw it as merely necessary) to have his first undead son executed, he can't care an awful lot for the remaining five and their vampire offspring. In a way he's the vampire, whilst they are just "vampires," with existences as trite and meaningless as the humans that they prey on. The Pillars and their state has become his sole focus, as if he's spent years playing as a vampire without really embracing the things he needs to do.
    Last edited by Sluagh; 9th Jan 2014 at 14:23.

  25. #75
    Originally Posted by LiKrySo
    Everyone in Eidos/The forum/Square Enix already explained Nosgoth won't be Pay-2-Win so these "Avatar Enhancements" must be aesthetical.
    So yes, Nosgoth has a way to pay all the days/months/years of work and make some profit for the company and we get our vampire vs. human war without the danger of "that rich guy" calling a tactical razielim nuke
    yeah.. not so much. it's true you can buy cosmetic items, but you can also buy weapons and abilities. whats worse is that when you go into the store to buy weapons or abilities the price shown is the "rental" price. thats to say you only get to use what you just bought for a week and then its gone. unless you buy it permanently and then the price is close to 5x what the displayed price was. i understand its a free to play game and they're here to make money from transactions but come on, RENTING you items? that's just bad business.

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