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Thread: Genuinely trying to understand

Genuinely trying to understand

  1. #1

    Genuinely trying to understand

    Okay. So the smoke has cleared and everyone has expressed their hope, disappointment, elation, anger, rage, threats of violence, etc etc.

    My initial reaction was my heart settling gently into my stomach where it would then crack to pieces. That said, I'm trying to understand.

    So this game is a complete departure from everything that has made the LOK series beloved by fans. This game is also created by people who have said that they are HUGE LOK fans. Now if this is true, then it should be fair to deduce that they would want what we do; a continuation of the story.

    Enter multiplayer Nosgoth:

    I'm wondering if there is more that we don't know. Is Nosgoth the first game that brings the world back to light, while a true LOK game is being developed. Perhaps this is a test to see if, when a new LOK game is made, multiplayer can be an addition.

    These are speculations based on my hope that there is more here than meets the eye, and that this game is the start of what we hope to come. While I'm glad LOK has been forgotten, this is nearly as if it still is. I likely won't be able to attend the Q&A, but what I'm hoping is that there is something more to this. If Square Enix has not developed a sequel because they fear low sales, then I wish they would be transparent about it. If this is to test the market for interest, it seems a sideways way to do it given it has nothing in common with LOK aside from the world and clans.

    I will not lie and say I'm not disappointed, but at the same time, I'm trying my best to be open-minded about this, and am holding out hope that we might actually get to know what happens after Defiance. Sadly, I don't like, and don't play multiplayer games. I don't even really play online. And if I did, I currently wouldn't be able to enjoy this game because I don't play on PC. I only have a console.

    So much about this has me scratching my head, but I'm hoping something encouraging will be revealed on monday.

    This is nearly a complete departure from LOK. I'm interested in learning what the thinking was behind it.

  2. #2
    This is pretty obviously a Syndicate/XCOM: The Bureau-esque "I wonder if people still want these games" move, with the same "choice" of making it a shooter, a radical departure from the original game. I am pretty bummed with how this is going so far, but at the VERY least the vampire half of the game looks somewhat interesting. I'd say maybe a massive BETRAAAAAYAAAAAL response like XCOM had might get Square's attention but the fanbase isn't nearly big enough for that.

  3. #3
    I'm hoping that this is something to garner interest while they're working on an addition to the story from Defiance. Either way, I'm guessing we'll know all the answers on monday. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that something good is said on monday. We'll see.

  4. #4
    The sequel to Defiance was cancelled in 2004. The reboot of the franchise was cancelled in 2012, after 3 years of work.

    Chances are, if they wanted an LoK sequel they'd have it out by now. Nosgoth is a marketing move and little else.

    I feel sorry for Psyonix.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Rynfear
    The sequel to Defiance was cancelled in 2004. The reboot of the franchise was cancelled in 2012, after 3 years of work.

    Chances are, if they wanted an LoK sequel they'd have it out by now. Nosgoth is a marketing move and little else.

    I feel sorry for Psyonix.
    If it was a pure marketing move it would be called "Legacy of Kain: Kain's Legacy: Defiance 2: Revelations!" Nah, there's probably a number of reasons, testing the waters, funding a bigger LoK project, or genuinely wanting to expand the IP's scope.

    Remember this is the same publisher who after getting hold of the Tomb Raider license, made Guardian of Light, a good but wildly different Tomb Raider game. However they also came out with the latest Tomb Raider which is by all rights another good game and more faithful mechanically to the previous games.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by 88chaz88
    If it was a pure marketing move it would be called "Legacy of Kain: Kain's Legacy: Defiance 2: Revelations!"
    Like the Syndicate FPS was called Syndicate? Or the XCOM FPS being called XCOM before people wildly raged at it? Yeah, I'm sure it would be.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Rynfear
    Like the Syndicate FPS was called Syndicate? Or the XCOM FPS being called XCOM before people wildly raged at it? Yeah, I'm sure it would be.
    Yes.

    Anyway did you miss my Guardian of Light analogy?

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by 88chaz88
    Yes.

    Anyway did you miss my Guardian of Light analogy?
    The one that assumes Square is into releasing spin-offs before actual sequels and ignores the one big sequel they just cancelled?

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Rynfear
    The one that assumes Square is into releasing spin-offs before actual sequels and ignores the one big sequel they just cancelled?
    Games get cancelled all the time, there were 9 LoK related projects cancelled before that one, many of which had their assets and concepts shifted over to the games we know now. Just because Dead Sun isn't releasing as Dead Sun doesn't mean the idea is gone forever. Part of it has turned into Nosgoth, but what about the rest? Could be that the singleplayer element isn't dead and being turned into something better.

    Back to your original statement I still don't get how this could be a marketing strategy, if it is then it's a terrible one.

  10. #10
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    I remember a few years back when I noticed a poll where people would vote on the next game and a new Lok game lost to Tombraider....people wanted to watch more pixelated boobs than to experience undead AWESOMENESS!

    Shame on them that voted!

    (click image to enlarge)

  11. #11
    I dunno, could go either way. I'm just happy to have another game using the amazing IP, and it may lead to greater things in the future.

  12. #12
    I'm hoping this is to kick things off. I may be naively optimistic, but I can't let myself believe that despite all they've heard from fans, they would only release this game without something else in the works. That would defy logic. It's been a long wait, and I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer to see what happens. As much as I would likely have supported this, I happen to detest online play for the most part, so this is a complete wash for me. *shrugs*

  13. #13
    Squenix? I haven't been this disappointed in a publisher in my life. You've fallen from the pedestal you once were atop. That is all.

  14. #14
    i get you guys are pissed or confused or some type of negative towards this and I get it. but seriously guys just a cry a river and get over it. And for once be actually HAPPY that square even allowed this in the first place. they have an interest in this series otherwise they would have never let this be and wed still be waiting for something, anything LOK related. yes I understand that it isn't *Legacy of Kain* related I a sense but it is NOSGOTH and Nosgoth is the world we fell I love with. playing BO1 all those years ago and just exploring the world was amazing. YES its the story we all love with this series as well as the world, but if you get down to it, do you really want a continuation to a story that for me at least ended just fine? sure you all want closure of what happens next and how. but Tony Jay is gone, Simon has moved on to doing other things, and Michael as far as I know, is retired. Plus do you want a story to be told only to end up hating its conclusion because its not what or how you thought it would end? its been 10 years guys. TEN YEARS. im not saying we shouldn't hope (which is a primary theme of defiance ironically enough) for another single player game, but lets stop the hating and embrace this new thing that at least is set in and is a new take on a series we love. its called NOSGOTH not Legcy of Kain: Nosgoth for a reason.

    for me anyway id rather have this than a single player game that doesn't live up the unbelievably high standards we set ourselves for this series.

  15. #15
    cinful13? I honestly would have preferred no new game set in this universe than this game. Honestly, they're taking a game, sacrificing it's core audience (likely in a worthless attempt at appealing to the CoD crowd) and butchering the lore and art in the process.

    Why should we put up with it? The XCOM fanbase didn't put up with it and they basically got a good faithful game in return as an apology.

  16. #16
    Best way to gauge interest in a new LoK game (A real single player one with stories and lots of stabbing people.)

    Create a kickstarter page for it...

    Spam advertise the kickstarter page for it....

    Sit back and watch the fans go "Shut up and take my money!" like they did for Mighty no. 9

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Enclave
    cinful13? I honestly would have preferred no new game set in this universe than this game. Honestly, they're taking a game, sacrificing it's core audience (likely in a worthless attempt at appealing to the CoD crowd) and butchering the lore and art in the process.

    Why should we put up with it? The XCOM fanbase didn't put up with it and they basically got a good faithful game in return as an apology.
    Honestly I don't see why it matters, I love the Legacy of Kain Series and look forward to this game and to see what they will do to improve it, people are already judging it and its not even close beta yet lol, if the game does end up killing the fanbase, then people will do what they do to any game that kills the series disown it and pretend it didn't exist, instead people waste their time bashing on a game that could have potential, not to the series but at least something, and another thing where do people get the whole "CoD crowd" thing when its not even remotely the same style of gameplay I would understand if you compared it to left 4 dead or something but a game with quick scoping is considered skill is a wat? but its whatever all we can do is give them our feedback and see if they listen so the game has a potential of being good

  18. #18
    Hibkiyuki, appealing to the CoD crowd doesn't mean making a game exactly like CoD. Look at Resident Evil 6. The game doesn't play like CoD yet the devs have flat out stated they were trying to appeal more to the CoD crowd. Same goes for many games that have departed from their roots. It's a mistake developers and publishers are constantly making because they see the money CoD pulls in. Problem is? That crowd doesn't care to play anything but CoD and maybe some GTA as well. They don't CARE about Resident Evil, Dead Rising or Nosgoth, they're happy playing CoD.

    At least Capcom CLAIMS that Resident Evil 7 will return to its survival horror roots after how badly RE6 failed. Thing is, if the game was a success? RE7 would be certain to appeal to the exact same audience and further alienate the core RE fanbase.

    I've never seen a game improved by appealing to a wider audience. Not once. Problem is that publishers set unrealistic expectations. They need to cut back the budget and stop trying to sell a billion copies of their games. Have realistic sales expectations and don't alienate your core audience. Niche games still make profit, look at Atlus, all their games are niche titles and they made reliable profits from their niche titles, hell it was their parent company that had money issues, Atlus themselves were still solvent.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Enclave
    Hibkiyuki, appealing to the CoD crowd doesn't mean making a game exactly like CoD. Look at Resident Evil 6. The game doesn't play like CoD yet the devs have flat out stated they were trying to appeal more to the CoD crowd. Same goes for many games that have departed from their roots. It's a mistake developers and publishers are constantly making because they see the money CoD pulls in. Problem is? That crowd doesn't care to play anything but CoD and maybe some GTA as well. They don't CARE about Resident Evil, Dead Rising or Nosgoth, they're happy playing CoD.

    At least Capcom CLAIMS that Resident Evil 7 will return to its survival horror roots after how badly RE6 failed. Thing is, if the game was a success? RE7 would be certain to appeal to the exact same audience and further alienate the core RE fanbase.

    I've never seen a game improved by appealing to a wider audience. Not once. Problem is that publishers set unrealistic expectations. They need to cut back the budget and stop trying to sell a billion copies of their games. Have realistic sales expectations and don't alienate your core audience. Niche games still make profit, look at Atlus, all their games are niche titles and they made reliable profits from their niche titles, hell it was their parent company that had money issues, Atlus themselves were still solvent.
    Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Hibkiyuki
    Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.

    exactly. you can either cry about it and just not play it. or wait, play it, then make your choice. and I like the art style. its not Dans but it (for me at least) evokes that feeing, its a bit of every game combined. im excited is my bottom line. that's all.

  21. #21
    Well I'm not one given to wish ill will, so I hole the game does well and leads to a continuation or reboot of the series. I totally understand that this is business, and they have to pay the bills and make a profit. I totally get that. My wish is just flr transparnecy. Tell us what's up. Are they testing the waters before creating another LOK game? Are they concerned about making another one because the last two didn't do as well as hoped? I just want to know what the thinking is.

    As for this game, it looks nice indeed, but I'm kind of left out for two reasons: I don't like or play multiplayer games because they're not my thing, not to mention the trolls. And I don't play games on pc.

    Still, if it comes to PS4, I would likely just try it anyway to support it

    I'd be lying if I didn't say I was heavily disappointed and more than a little irritated, but I've also been looking at this rationally and I have to believe there is a plan here.

    I guess we'll see soon enough.

  22. #22
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    I do not think they were ready to drop a bunch of money on the franchise for an entry of that kind. I'm excited for this, because it allows me to interact with the setting of Nosgoth in a different way. I'd rather this spin-off than a mainline entry that they aren't quite ready to make. You can't just poof one out on demand, and I'm sure they're working on what direction the franchise will inevitably take. Will Henning come back, what will the gameplay be like, how do they take the games to the next level?

    Square-Enix Europe is kind of the best branch at Square-Enix at the moment. They're producing some of the most well-made, well-polished, well-thought-out games on the market today. Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs were some of the most fun I've had in the past 5 years of modern games. I've got some faith that they're making the best decisions they can.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by Alma_Elma
    Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.
    I have every right to post here as you. I do care what happens to this game in that I don't want it made and I want them to know how I feel about this. Forums aren't supposed to be just for people happy with the butchering of a beloved series, they're for everybody. You honestly sound like those people who defended the Xbox One before they did a 180 on their policies. Complaining WORKS. Worked with fixing the Xbox One, worked with Resident Evil, worked with Mass Effect 3 and worked with XCOM.

    Make noise, have your voice heard and only then can you effect change in this industry. If you just roll over and accept it? All we'll get is publishers and developers continuing to butcher classics all to try to cash in without actually caring about the source material.

  24. #24
    If you are going to complain, make sure you're specific about what your complaining about. Don't just say it contradicts the plot, say which parts and don't expect getting one game cancelled will automatically mean the one you want will be made instead, because it will probably just put them of trying altogether.

    And remember, nobody is going to listen to you if all you're going to do is call them names and insult them.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 29th Sep 2013 at 16:56.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by Alma_Elma
    Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.
    Nice strawman you pulled there. It is precisely because we care about the game and its place in the series that we have to come out and point out all the mistakes to the devs. I wouldn't mind this being a sort of spin-off game if AT LEAST they did their research. I mean, what can we expect if they couldn't even get the right look for the vampire clans?

    Furthermore, why settle for a poor marketing attempt when there's both a budget AND an audience available for a proper LoK game? Why should we not be allowed to criticize the game for obvious design flaws that include lore inconsistencies and incorrect aesthetics? If you're fine with just getting the scraps of what could've been a proper meal so be it, but not everyone has to just shut up and stop voicing their concerns.

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