Thread: We're taking this whole thing too seriously.

We're taking this whole thing too seriously.

  1. #51
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    Originally Posted by Dagren
    I hate to make posts like that, but here goes:
    Indeed game publishers never try anything new: they are always giving us free to play arena games these days while some genres are left rotting in the dirt. Sure there are some cool ideas in Nosgoth, but that's hardly innovative.
    How many games are out there that are exactly like Nosgoth?

  2. #52
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    Originally Posted by Driber
    How many games are out there that are exactly like Nosgoth?
    Ahah. Exactly, none of course. But any class based team deathmatch shooter (Quake & mods, Unreal Tournament & mods, Team Fortress 1 & 2) would come close enough, right? Then there would be Chivalry, War of the Roses, and third person mobas like SMITE and the other one whose name espaces me (the bad one with greek gods).
    So you add equipment & gear unlockable system like in any MOBA or FPS these days. Toss the LoK IP on top and tada you have Nosgoth.

    As I said, it has some cool ideas, but don't tell me that a class based team deathmatch game is innovative.

  3. #53
    I've seen a shocking amount of people who claim it isn't consistent with LOK lore, and back their claims up with things they've assumed for years. They assume humans are pretty much useless, and would never, ever be able to wage one last desperate war. They assume Kain killed all the Razilim, and then promptly get their panties all in a knot because they show up. People are even more steamed about how they look. I've had to tell people again and again what the word "beta" means.
    Either way, if the story of the war must be told, I think this is one of the better ways to do it. Rather than having a kind of LOK RTS game, or a Dynasty Warriors type game, I would much prefer to be playing against someone who I'm not going to mow down in one swipe. I just think a LOK RTS would be a terrible idea in general.
    Just think about it...or don't...

  4. #54
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    Yes, a lot of those assumptions I've been explaining actually are false, but it's a shame that perceptions still are out there that they are messing up the lore. There are plenty of reasons to criticize, like the appearance of vampire classes, which can be rectified. Stuff like that, or depth to the gameplay, more classes, balance to the game, etc. -- these are things that the game should be critiqued for. I also certainly would prefer an intro story cutscene, or story happening in the game, progression that's felt in story cinematic rewards, etc. Plenty left to want changed, but where they placed this war and the validity of it within the lore is not one of their faults. They did make this work. Dumah and his clan were decimated by a human uprising. The Citadel remained unblemished; hunters were out and about in SR1 somehow surviving, so the humans held their own as best they could and this is a great opportunity to showcase just how they did it, if done right...

  5. #55
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    i think that this is going to be a good game but i didn't play them n stuff but i'm going to play them. i heard that square enix is a good gaming company and personally i love steam so those two is from what i think a great combination in graphics, gameplay and storyline but don't take my word for it and play it, and can someone tell me where i can download the other games

  6. #56
    There's an epic potential to this game if they can do it properly, and I'm excited to see how it pans out. I trust the good people at Psyonix to make it fun, at the very least, since they have so much experience with multiplayer games, and so far it's actually lore friendly, so I'm interested to see if they can put a story tell element into the game that everyone seems so sure can't possibly be included in the game. (Never mind that the war you're fighting is the story...)

  7. #57
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    i do agree with you that all the negativity is a bit much and i had a slightly different perspective than you. like you and probably everyone else i wanted a continuation of story left open at the end of defiance and was slightly disappointed when they announced this wasnt going to be. however i was still optimistic since a LOK multiplayer had me intrigued along with the hope that if this game does well we may get the game we've been waiting for. then after seeing that trailer im more excited then ever! the gameplay looks incredibly fun! i also dont an issue with the lore as a recall they dont say when raziels clan is wiped out and the different apparance of dumahs and turel clan can be due to the fact that the members of the clans evolved years after their masters. and dont they say kain basically locks himself into his palace for years?

  8. #58
    Originally Posted by Mnkymn89
    and dont they say kain basically locks himself into his palace for years?
    Basically they say they haven't seen him outside of the Citadel, if I remember correctly.

  9. #59
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    Originally Posted by Driber
    Well then don't support it if you're so cynical about it.

    Why are you still here then?
    I wrote it in the quoted part: I think it's better to say anything instead of nothing. Either way I'm here to share my opinion, which may be not very positive, but I guess you can't blame me your having a different opinion than most of you.

    Originally Posted by Driber
    How many games are out there that are exactly like Nosgoth?
    Not many, but Nosgoth isn't that unique, as it reminds me personally of Natural Selection 2, the Aliens vs Preadator multiplayer parts and sort of Left 4 Dead.


    Originally Posted by The_Hylden
    Yes, a lot of those assumptions I've been explaining actually are false, but it's a shame that perceptions still are out there that they are messing up the lore.
    I have to admit. I guess the lore is the least problem, that Nosgoth has and with that I mean the same points you are reffering in your posting.

  10. #60
    Originally Posted by Driber
    How many games are out there that are exactly like Nosgoth?
    What areas does Nosgoth innovate in?

  11. #61
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    Originally Posted by Dagren
    Ahah. Exactly, none of course. But any class based team deathmatch shooter (Quake & mods, Unreal Tournament & mods, Team Fortress 1 & 2) would come close enough, right?
    Not really.

    Those games don't have vampires, you can't fly in those games, you can't climb walls, etc.

    Then there would be Chivalry, War of the Roses, and third person mobas like SMITE and the other one whose name espaces me (the bad one with greek gods).
    So you add equipment & gear unlockable system like in any MOBA or FPS these days. Toss the LoK IP on top and tada you have Nosgoth.
    Sounds like NG is borrowing from all kinds of games, mixing things up, and introducing new aspects to it. So you still can't say that NG is exactly like 20 other games out there.

    If you're looking for an entirely new genre that has never ever been done before in the history of videogames... well, good luck with your search then

    As I said, it has some cool ideas, but don't tell me that a class based team deathmatch game is innovative.
    Straw man argument.

    Originally Posted by Le_Don
    I wrote it in the quoted part: I think it's better to say anything instead of nothing. Either way I'm here to share my opinion, which may be not very positive, but I guess you can't blame me your having a different opinion than most of you.
    I'd never blame anyone for having (different) opinions. But what I don't get is you A) are not interested in NG, and B) will not be supporting it, so why continue to say that the game shouldn't be made and that people shouldn't support it?

    Let's say for example someone at SE listens to you and they DO cancel NG after already having been publicly announced. Do you seriously think that such an action would bode well for the future of the franchise?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm saying "get in line or GTFO", I'm merely trying to understand people like you, is all

    Not many, but Nosgoth isn't that unique, as it reminds me personally of Natural Selection 2, the Aliens vs Preadator multiplayer parts and sort of Left 4 Dead.
    That doesn't sound very abundant then.
    Last edited by Driber; 28th Sep 2013 at 10:11.

  12. #62
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    I have not read the whole thread yet so some of these comments may have been covered but I agree with some people who may be disappointed, I understand like the rest of you, we would love to see the epic saga continue, playing as Kain as he continue his "legacy" but don't forget everyone, its been an incredibly long time since the LoK games have been visited, and theres a lot of new gamers coming to the market, I think the direction this game is going, fast paced multiplayer is a BRILLIANT way to get new gamers interested in the universe that is Nosgoth. I almost guarantee that people who play this game when it releases will think, "this is pretty cool world, I want to know more!" and will pick up the other games, and spread the word and maybe then, when the time is right we will see the next step in the Nosgoth history.

    I disagree that this game damages the lore in any way, infact reading what were given this game fits perfectly. It fits between Raziel being cast in, and Raziel returning to kill his brothers. Theres a huge gap of centuries, if not millennia where we don't really know what happened and this story fills us in. It makes sense that the humans wouldn't just fall without putting up a fight and that without Kain, the clans will do battle, we know this from the old games so whats really changed? The game on the lore page says the Razielim are "remnants" so we can assume that lorewise, this makes sense, and perhaps by the time Raziel comes back their all gone or so few and far between your not likely to see one.

    If anything, this game makes sense of some of the lore, I mean, lets face it we don't know all that much about humans in the old soul reaver, they had crossbows and flamethrowers but it would be interesting to learn more about them. This game gives the devs a chance, and the players both old and new to step into Nosgoth as a world and do some exploring and I for one wont be looking a gift horse in the mouth so to speak, this is a great gift to anyone who loves the old games.

  13. #63
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    Originally Posted by Driber
    I'd never blame anyone for having (different) opinions. But what I don't get is you A) are not interested in NG, and B) will not be supporting it, so why continue to say that the game shouldn't be made and that people shouldn't support it?

    Let's say for example someone at SE listens to you and they DO cancel NG after already having been publicly announced. Do you seriously think that such an action would bode well for the future of the franchise?
    Well, I have to correct some details. First I never said Nosgoth shouldn't be made - I'm just saying maybe this whole concept is a bad idea. I'm a developer myself and I would fell bad, if their project may get cancelled or when the guys are getting death threads like the guys of Black Ops 2 and so on - that's a shame. But just because I'm a LoK fan doesn't mean everything is great, just because LoK is somewhere in it. Second I never dictated anyone, what they are supposed to do. I did mention it in a posting of mine, that it is absolutly fine when people support Nosgoth and even have fun with it - please, do it, if you feel like! I'm again just guessing, that it is maybe better not to so or at least not just silently accept it, as the developers won't never know what they customers want, if they don't speak up and that is the part, I tried to explain to you earlier (which I don't mean in an assaulting way). In the end all the people, who speak up against Nosgoth, want to make a sign of what they want and that is a new, "real" LoK game.

    Beside that I guess I overwrote it in my previous post, but I want at least give Nosgoth a chance and try out. Still I'm very sceptical, but I guess nobody can blame me for being that.

    Originally Posted by Driber
    Don't get me wrong, I'm saying "get in line or GTFO", I'm merely trying to understand people like you, is all
    You forgot a "not", didn't you ?

    Originally Posted by Driber
    That doesn't sound very abundant then.
    I never said it would be - it just not *that* unique (which is not a bad thing, btw).

  14. #64
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    Originally Posted by Driber
    Not really.

    Those games don't have vampires, you can't fly in those games, you can't climb walls, etc.
    Okay add Brink to the list for the parkour stuff. But that's not my point.

    Originally Posted by Driber
    Sounds like NG is borrowing from all kinds of games, mixing things up, and introducing new aspects to it. So you still can't say that NG is exactly like 20 other games out there.

    If you're looking for an entirely new genre that has never ever been done before in the history of videogames... well, good luck with your search then
    I wasn't saying Nosgoth isn't unique or uninspired, it's just that MP arena games (especially designed around a F2P business model) is a genre that is kind of a bandwagon nowadays, where every publisher tries to have a hand in it.

    When I said that I was answering to Rexidus who said:
    Gamers complain that game publishers never try anything new and peoples reactions here are proof why
    In that context I don't think the genre Nosgoth competes in is "anything new", as it is a crowded genre.
    That's all.

  15. #65
    Wait. I thought Nosgoth takes place *after* Raziel kills all his brothers?

    Not that it matters, really.

  16. #66
    But more to the story of what's going on lorewise during the game... We know at some point, all the clan leaders are going to die and somehow Kain and Raziel are going to cause the corruption to be lifted from the world. Humans and vampires, for as much as they kill each other, aren't going to be able to survive without each other. You see, eliminating the Vampires would pave the way for Hylden to return, and they DO NOT need human blood to live. I don't think humans alone could defend Nosgoth, but they have no idea Hylden even exist. I also have no idea if Demons also want to claim the world for themselves, so maybe we have a 4th party waiting to jump in on the action.

    Even and after the world gets cleansed, which we are counting on, purified vampires are still going to have to deal with humans and with defending the world from interdimentional invaders. Are there going to be pillars again? Guardians? Some new kind of chosen superguardian? Does Henning want to keep coming up with this stuff? how can players get in on the story? Will there be raids? Can opposite factions talk to each other? Can they ally with each other?? Can a player ally with the opposite faction? Become a vampire? Maybe players can 'assist' the risen Raziel as he takes out his bros... like a re-enactment of SR1.

  17. #67
    Originally Posted by Rexidus
    Wow, people are WAY too critical of this game. With what we've seen so far this game seems to be far more respectful to the lore and setting than Blood Omen 2. It's trying something new and something that is interesting.

    Games complain that game publishers never try anything new and peoples reactions here are proof why. A lot of you are childishly refusing to try something new. Very little is known about the game yet you damn it. Why not let the game come out and judge it for what it is rather than what you wanted it to be?
    Blood Omen 2 was perfectly respectful to the lore and the setting. It is what Kain saw when he was busying having a seizure/migraine after pulling the Soul Reaver out of Raziel's chest in order to keep him from being sucked in at the end of Soul Reaver 2.

    Kain even tried to warn Raziel so that nightmare wouldn't happen, but Raziel passed out before the warning could be delivered, and then faded away into the spirit realm for many many years.

    "My god! The Hylden! We walked right into their trap... Raziel! Janos, must stay dead!"

  18. #68
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    @Wraithblade 6. None of that is really a concern for Nosgoth. It takes place between Raziel's execution and his rebirth. Nosgoth takes place in a specific time period where we generally have an idea of what happened. We won't be seeing anything other than a simple war between humans and vampires. No Hylden or anything like that. No worries about the corruption etc because the events play out as shown in previous games for the most part.

    Originally Posted by Vanyelxp5
    Blood Omen 2 was perfectly respectful to the lore and the setting. It is what Kain saw when he was busying having a seizure/migraine after pulling the Soul Reaver out of Raziel's chest in order to keep him from being sucked in at the end of Soul Reaver 2.
    Yes, I agree.... Blood Omen 2 was a bad headache.

  19. #69
    Hm. Well I'd be rather disappointed if it were just about pvp.

  20. #70
    They said there would be story time too. Missions where you side with either humans, or vampires.

    I'm hoping that one of these missions is attacking Dumah's fortress and stabbing him with spears to paralyze him.

  21. #71
    I hope they will make that a pve instance.

  22. #72
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    I haven't heard anything other than a 4 vs 4 team (with the possibility of 6 vs 6) in arenas. No explorable world, no chance for pve as far as I'm aware.

  23. #73
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    I just want SR3 that ties it all up and ends it. I don't mind this game so much but it does not carry much of my interest. I invested to much of my time in adventure games to be interested in what seems to be a simple wait in que multiplayer game.

  24. #74
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    Originally Posted by Abolist
    I just want SR3 that ties it all up and ends it. I don't mind this game so much but it does not carry much of my interest. I invested to much of my time in adventure games to be interested in what seems to be a simple wait in que multiplayer game.
    There won't be a "SR3" because Raziel's arc is done.
    Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!

  25. #75
    Originally Posted by Limed00d
    There won't be a "SR3" because Raziel's arc is done.
    I hope it stays that way too. What Amy creates, she can also destroy! No one needs to meddle with his story in a reboot or otherwise. Besides, the very first thing Raziel said when he became a wraith is that he would choose oblivion over that existance. He was finally allowed to rest in peace.

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