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Thread: [Spoiler] Kain's elimination of competition

  1. #1

    [Spoiler] Kain's elimination of competition

    I recently was listening to the exchange between Hash and Janos at the end of BO2, and I got an interesting thought in my head.
    Did Kain let Janos fall on purpose?

    If I remember right, Kain roasts Hash so that he drops the Reaver. Janos then swoops in and blocks Hash from picking it up again. Kain watches as they argue until Janos screams at him to pick up the sword. Kain then hesitates while Hash beats up on Janos and tosses him over the edge.

    I realize that Kain was fairly young then, and possibly given to being careful, but I'm thinking that he also didn't want Janos to make it out alive because he would've been a really great threat to his plans of world domination.

    (I realize, of course, that the script and the resulting cutscenes for BO2 can be a bit akward at times.)
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  2. #2
    Honestly, I dont think Janos would have stood in his way. I think Kain stayed out of the way because that beef was between Hash and Janos. Remember, they knew each other from before and probably still held a grudge against each other.... Kain probably just minded his own business that's all.

  3. #3
    Well, to be fair, Kain had just invaided and slaughtered almost all of his enemies base after killing his love, so he was a little tired, and I'm sure he was moving a little slow. Also, I think the real question here isn't "why didn't Kain help Janos?" but "why didn't Janos help Janos?" I've watched the ending to BO2 several times to clear this up in my head, but so far as I can see, Janos has some pretty badass wings on him, and all the Hylden Lord did was grab him and throw him into some misty stuff. Why didn't he just put those wings into action and fly on up and away?
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel'sRevenge
    Why didn't he just put those wings into action and fly on up and away?
    I said the same thing after a heated discussion re: Janos's 'strength'.. it was argued on his behalf that well, he was still very weak from imprisonment, and he had been drained of sooooooo much blood that well you know he just couldn't flap them wings, which is crap.

    I stick with my theory that it was just the best way to write off his character, which is why I feel Umah betrayed Kain and was murdered in the same chapter - to write off her character.

  5. #5
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    I asked this question on that thread a while back where we each got to ask three questions. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the people at Crystal have time to answer them all

    As far as Janos not flying away, I was under the impression that Hash paralyzed him.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel'sRevenge
    Well, to be fair, Kain hadjust invaided and slaughtered almost all of his enemies base after killing his love, so he was a little tired, and I'm sure he was moving a little slow. Also, I think the real question here isn't "why didn't Kain help Janos?" but why didn't "Janos help Janos?" I've watched the ending to BO2 several times to clear this up in my head, but so far as I can see, Janos has some pretty badass wings on him, and all the Hylden Lord did was grab him and throw him into some misty stuff. Why didn't he just put those wings into action and fly on up and away?
    Maybe because the dev. was really bad and the story came out of a monkey's 4$$. Maybe.

  7. #7

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithStar
    I asked this question on that thread a while back where we each got to ask three questions. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the people at Crystal have time to answer them all

    As far as Janos not flying away, I was under the impression that Hash paralyzed him.
    ...could be.

    Janos leaps at the Sarafan Lord, but the Lord catches him easily by the throat.

    The Sarafan Lord:

    Then go, and see what it makes of you!

    The Sarafan Lord releases Janos and physically attacks him. Janos is too weak to gain the upper hand against the Lord.


    Janos:
    Kain! The sword!

    Kain reclaims the Soul Reaver. The Sarafan Lord lifts Janos up again.

    The Sarafan Lord:

    I sentence you to the hell of your own making - a prisoner for all time.

    The Sarafan Lord throws Janos through the vortex of the gate.

    Janos:

    No! Kain!

    ________
    ....could be but I dont think he was paralyzed by a quote "physical attack" as it clearly shows that Janos is just too weak to go heads up with Hash in the first place. I think Janos's magic or powers are outdated as well. Not only that but the Hylden lord once possessed Janos as a vessel - he knew him inside out - conquering him mentally and physically which furthermore convinced me that Janos never had a chance.

    Apparently, the power of Immolate was the key to Kain's victory since it was the only attack that had any type of physical impact on the Hylden lord's body. The Soul Reaver was just the icing on the cake as it permanently prevented Hash from returning again, having fed his soul to good ole Raz.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kakarot
    Apparently, the power of Immolate was the key to Kain's victory since it was the only attack that had any type of physical impact on the Hylden lord's body
    berserk and fury work on him too, just not until kain gets the reaver.
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  9. #9
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    Haven't you noticed (Like when LOKFanatic said in his GameFAQ guide) Janos was KICKED IN THE BALLS. I don't know about but if I had bad ass wings but was kicked in the balls, I would have difficulty flying away, besides if you listen closely you hear a snap when the Hylden Lord attacks Janos's wings, those might be his wings breaking or just another goof of the BO2 team, no offense to them. Personally kicking me in the hoo-hoo's don't make much sense, I have a dulled sense of pain... <_< >_>

  10. #10
    keep in mind, the hylden have had a LONG time in the demon dimension to grow in power. like the old saying goes, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. just like when you have ill will toward something, and bury it (rather than confronting it), it doesnt dissipate... it grows. thats just my take on the situation. the sarafan lord should have been too strong for kain as well... if kain had not been so lucky as to kill magnus and absorb his power to immolate, it would have been a very short fight.
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  11. #11
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    True but keep in mind EG needed Kain to resurrect the Sarafan Shaman's some time later and like Kain said in SR2, if history can't divert around the obstruction, it would expell the obstruction completely, I.E. Hylden Lord may never have exsisted and some other Hydlen would have done BO2 and Mortanious and be weak strong enough to beat Kain but get killed by him later, I just wonder if The Seer is still around.

  12. #12
    i would like to know more about the seer... she looks somewhat like a hylden, but not as much as the hylden that kain fights in the game. i wonder if she is some sort of hylden-human halfbreed, which would explain why she was not banished to the demon dimension like the pure hylden were. i dont believe she died in bo2, she certainly had the power to save herself. maybe shell show up in the next game.
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  13. #13
    I kinda think that the Seer is a half Hylden half Ancient mix. I dunno why, it just feels right to me.
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  14. #14
    i just finished bo2 again today. in the hylden city, there were pictures on some walls that more resembled the seer's appearance than any of the hylden in the city. which reminds me of what the sarafan lord said about the demon dimension altering their appearance. now, more likely than anything this is just a plot hole and im making something out of nothing, but i wonder if the seer IS an ancient, who appears as the hylden race would have before their banishment to the demon dimension. but on the other hand, janos spoke of "the builder" as the one who built "the device" in the war between the ancients (vampires and hylden). the builder, of course, looks just like the rest of the post-banishment hylden in the game. so is the seer even older than the ancients? could she be one of the races janos spoke of, when he said there are things left behind by "the gods"?
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  15. #15
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    I don't remember the God's part to be frank, however I must say that The Seer aside from being hot (damn Hollywood!) she's like Kain said "Isn't any vampire I've ever seen." So that makes reference to her being full Hylden, and Vorador said that she owed him a favor, the favor she owes him is probably that of him asking the Ancients (most likely Janos) to allow her to stay in return she pay him back later, he probably had a thing for her, in my opinion. They might bring back The Seer in the next game along with Vorador's resurrection for sure, I mean we've been asking this question for like 2 years now.

    Like Hylden Lord said, being banished to the Eternal Prison did have a negative effect on The Builder and Margnus but probably not as serverly as being banished to the Demon Dimension

  16. #16
    yeah "the gods" thing was my words put to what janos said, not sure where that came from. sorry . the scene im referring to was when the devolved janos was explaining the device to kain. he said the device was something left behind by the ancient races. since janos is an ancient himself, i thought he was talking about races from before even vampires and hylden. now that i think about it, maybe he was just talking about hylden. dammit, gotta play through again.
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  17. #17
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    He was probably refering to the Vampires and Hylden that came before him.

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