Thread: So Your Super-Computer Can't Run Thief?

So Your Super-Computer Can't Run Thief?

  1. #51
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    Jul 2003
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    Aside from the video card, you've got the basic same system I do. Your entire problem stems from the video card, I am afraid. For Radeons, the suffix SE indicates a very low performance version. In the original 9600 series, there were 3 versions: the 9600Pro, the 9600, and the 9600SE. The 9600Pro has a higher clock speed than the 9600. The 9600SE may have the same clock speed as the 9600 (not sure here), but it only has half the memory bandwidth. That's resulting in a bottleneck on the video card, which is why you're getting choppy play. Try reducing the resolution to 800x600 and see if it helps.

  2. #52
    I did. I ask that you read my post carefully. I said I'm having problems with the lowest settings. I am running at 640 x 480 with no shadow detail and it runs choppy as heck.
    As for the video card, I honestly do not think it is the problem. I can run prince of Persia Sands of time at 1280 x 1024 "almost" flawlessly wit no choppiness, and I understand that game is very demanding.

    Although it is certainly possible the video card is the bottleneck, based on what i said above, I really doubt it.

    Thanx for the reply. I look forward to reading more replies.

  3. #53
    make sure you have v-sync disabled, you can also try unchecking "bloom." This might give you a bit more performance. I think the game could probably run at 800x600 with most the details at their lowest.

  4. #54
    I tried that just now. it did not help

    I cna play somewhat now at 640x480 after closing every darned Windows ervice and program I can think of now. Also, whenever a cinematic takes place or I run, the choppiness is back!

    I don't think my macine is THAT slow really, and neither is the video card. I am really Disappointed in the game graphics engine so far. I may end up returning it, and never buying an Eidos game again

  5. #55
    Originally posted by Quillan

    I understand your feelings. I would hate to miss out on something I really wanted also. But if you cannot, for whatever reason, afford or acquire a modern computer system, then you will just have to accept that more and more games will not run on your old system.
    I don't think you do understand my feelings. There are still actually a lot of new games that have come out, that I can still play on even my old system, because they were not restricted to 2 specific video cards.

    To be told You have have 1 of 2 video cards is wrong. It says that the game was rigged to be made for just those 2 cards. In that it sounds like price rigging to me. That is a Federal crime. Maybe Eidos needs to look at thier game again and decide if they want to change things on it. I would hate to see them go down the same path as Microsoft. (IE set for pc's not mac's) That little move put them in Federal court.

  6. #56
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    Shash, trust me, it's the video card. My system is an Athlon XP 2000+, on an Abit KG7 motherboard. I've got 768 megs of PC2100 memory, and a 120 gig hard drive that's got about 45 gigs open on it. Sound familiar? But, I've got a 9800 Pro, and an Audigy 2 sound card. I can play at 1024x768, with details settings on highest except for multisampling, and I don't get any chop at all. So, it seems obvious that it's the video card, or perhaps you've got an integral sound setup that is eating up resources.

    Travis, I think you're being a bit shortsighted here. It's not just one game. As of this moment, Deus Ex: Invisible War, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow and Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time all require pixel shaders. That list is going to increase. I'm almost positive Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is going to require them. Some games can work around them. Some can't. Some may be able to but don't. I don't think the stealth games really can work around it. You'll notice that 3 of the 4 current games that require shaders are designed as stealth-capable games.

    And, it's not two video cards that they are restricted to. All Geforce 3 cards, the Geforce 4 TI4200/4400/4600/4800, all Geforce FX, all Geforce 6000 series cards, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9000/9100/9200, 9500/Pro/9550, 9600SE/9600/9600Pro/XT, 9700, 9700 Pro, 9800SE, 9800, 9800Pro, 9800SE, X300, X600, X700, X800Pro/XT/XT-PE all support pixel shaders.

  7. #57

    but...

    Originally posted by Quillan
    Shash, trust me, it's the video card. My system is an Athlon XP 2000+, on an Abit KG7 motherboard. I've got 768 megs of PC2100 memory, and a 120 gig hard drive that's got about 45 gigs open on it. Sound familiar? But, I've got a 9800 Pro, and an Audigy 2 sound card. I can play at 1024x768, with details settings on highest except for multisampling, and I don't get any chop at all. So, it seems obvious that it's the video card, or perhaps you've got an integral sound setup that is eating up resources.

    Travis, I think you're being a bit shortsighted here. It's not just one game. As of this moment, Deus Ex: Invisible War, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow and Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time all require pixel shaders. That list is going to increase. I'm almost positive Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is going to require them. Some games can work around them. Some can't. Some may be able to but don't. I don't think the stealth games really can work around it. You'll notice that 3 of the 4 current games that require shaders are designed as stealth-capable games.

    And, it's not two video cards that they are restricted to. All Geforce 3 cards, the Geforce 4 TI4200/4400/4600/4800, all Geforce FX, all Geforce 6000 series cards, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9000/9100/9200, 9500/Pro/9550, 9600SE/9600/9600Pro/XT, 9700, 9700 Pro, 9800SE, 9800, 9800Pro, 9800SE, X300, X600, X700, X800Pro/XT/XT-PE all support pixel shaders.
    Quill, thanks for all your help. However there seems to be a contradiction in what you have just said. Let us assume that the problem is indeed the video card (which I still have trouble accepting). According to both you and Eidos, the game should run with at least minimal settings on a Radeon 8500. If that is indeed true, then I fail to see why it cannot run with minimal settings on a 9600 SE!!!! Furthermore, It is not like the 9600 is a souped up Geforce MX. It really is a decent card, especially since this is the ONLY game I have ever had trouble with!

    I know I might be banned for this, but it seems to me that Eidos has not put sufficient time and effort to fully test their game on a wide variety of video cards.

    Like I said earlier, although it is certainly possible the video card may be the problem, i find that hard to beleive since

    a.) My system meets the minimum requirements
    b.) The minimum supported video card is an 8500
    c.) I am trying with minimal settings (640x480, no shadow, no bloom!)
    d.) I ran a full defrag and shut down all applications and unnecessary services!

  8. #58
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    Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure that the 9600SE is less powerful than the 8500 was, in practice. The half sized memory bandwidth is crippling. It is capable of more flashy stuff, much in the same was as the FX5200 is technically a DirectX 9 capable card, but it just doesn't have the power to do all that at a high framerate. In any event, you might be right, there might be something else wrong with it. You didn't say, do you have a sound card, or is it onboard? I saw a recent benchmark testing framerates in Half Life 2 (I think it was), and it made a 15% difference in framerate with the same system using the onboard sound versus an Audigy 2 soundcard.

  9. #59
    You could be right about the 8500 vs the 9600 SE (bummer). And I forgot to mention. I Do have an on-board sound card but I do not use it. I use a Creative SBPCI 512, and I have the built-in one disabled in the BIOS.

    PS: I am just surprised a game like Prince of Persia: Sands of Time runs smoothly on this card but a game like Thief 3 doesn't

  10. #60
    shassouneh,
    one other thing comes to mind here. I've had problems with spyware in the past. my old computer had collected so much spyware that it could barely boot up and then I got a spyware detector/cleaner and things improved dramatically. even though Norton antivirus has a spyware detector on it, it isn't as powerful as spybot search and destroy (which you can get free) if this is something you've done already then I'm sorry for wasting your time but you did not mention it. if this is news to you then get on the internet and do some research and you will find plenty of info about spyware and how to get rid of it. the fact is, there are LOTS of sites on the web that load spyware on your machine not to mention file sharing programs like Kazaa (which is LOADED with them). also somewhere in the forums here is a guide to tweeking your machine for the game, it should help. I can tell you that I've heard a lot of people complaining about bad frame rate who have systems that are as good or better than mine by the numbers but my system runs thief buttery-smooth even at MAX settings. I have a P4 2.8Ghz 512RAM an ATI saphire Radeon 9600 card with 256MB and a Sound blaster audigy 2 value 7.1 sound card and about 110 Gigs of free HD space. so my system is not spectacular but it is brand new and has not had the chance to get filled up with spyware and other crap. if I max out ALL the settings for the game I will get the tiniest of hesitations every once in a while but the game is perfectly playable and has a good frame rate. I really don't know much about your card, good luck though.
    I am Garrett, the invinceable! I have a sharp little fruit-knife and knees that bend! HA! you can't touch me, I'm too low for you!

    can we fix this?

  11. #61
    Thanx for the valuable input Ian.
    I do have several Anti-spyware tools that I run at least 2 to 3 times a week (if not more). Spybot, AdAware, Spysweeper, among others are just a few to mention. I also run 2 firewalls (a router, and ZoneAlarm), so I feel pretty certain spyware is not the likeliest of causes.
    Quill has suggested perhaps the video card is the cause, but as I mentioned earlier I have some trouble accepting that.
    Short of a format (or Ghost in my case), I can't think of anything else I cna do. I am very disappointed with Eidos in terms of testing their games (this is the 3rd game I have had trouble with, yes you read it right: 3rd), and all 3 of them where Eidos games

    I will dink around and check out the tweaking guide you mentioned.

    Thanx again for the input. Certainly Appreciated.

  12. #62
    wow! ok, I'd have to agree that you seem to have the spyware thing covered. I don't know enough about video cards to say if that could really be the problem but some the arguements for it make sense to me. obviously something is causing a problem, I just wish I could tell you what. good luck with this
    I am Garrett, the invinceable! I have a sharp little fruit-knife and knees that bend! HA! you can't touch me, I'm too low for you!

    can we fix this?

  13. #63
    Some other things to look at, just in case:

    Its not just a matter of the card's internal clock speed, memory capacity, and driver support. The communication speed between the card and the main CPU affect performance a lot.

    PCI versions of the cards always suffer in performance compared to their AGP cousins.

    Also, double check what "X" factor of AGP your motherboard supports, and compare to the "X" factors of the card you are using. If you are using a card capable of 8x, but you have the motherboard BIOS set to only 4x AGP, you are losing performance just from that bottleneck.

    If you are using a GeForce card and DX 9.0c (not 9.0b), then you should get the latest NVidia drivers (version 66.93). Versions prior to this one experienced performance problems under DX 9.0c.

  14. #64
    Originally posted by Sosukhelumez
    ^.^, anything below Raedeon 9800...well I have a 9200 but that should be good enough. HD 132 gigs free, 3.2 GHz, 60hz Refresh, All settings down to the lowest, and it still lags. o, and 512 RAM.
    Have only a 2.5ghz w/512ram, In combination with a 9800 Raedeon (btw, my mobo is only a 4x agp, so the 9800's runing at half speed
    Guess what, the game runs great! BTW running it in 1280x1024, 60hz refresh and no where near that ammount of gigs free.
    The 9800's aprox $250

  15. #65
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    I have problem it shout that i have sound card problems but i dont actualy i never had them and all games runs perfect but i'm not sure if my cim is enough strong for game 2GHZ 512 MB ram 64 geferce mx 440 agp 8X runs on 4 becouse mainbord doasent support hdd 40 gigs oh and sound card is ac 97 intigrated

  16. #66
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    I have problem it shout that i have sound card problems but i dont actualy i never had them and all games runs perfect but i'm not sure if my comp is enough strong for game 2GHZ 512 MB ram 64 geferce mx 440 agp 8X runs on 4 becouse mainbord doasent support hdd 40 gigs oh and sound card is ac 97 intigrated

  17. #67
    Thief 3 will not run with a GeForce MX 440 video card, because it does not have Pixel Shaders, which are required to run Thief 3. You have to go with the GeForce TI or FX line.

  18. #68
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    What is a Pixel Shaders

  19. #69
    In simple terms, Pixel Shading is a 3D technology that allows for faster rendering of dynamic lighting and shadows.

    If you read the requirements on the Thief 3 game, it says it will not run on a GeForce 440 MX, because the 440 MX does not support Pixel Shading.

    If you want to play Thief 3, you should buy a GeForce FX video card, or a Radeon 9000 series video card. Look for video cards that support Pixel Shaders 1.1 or Pixel Shaders 2.0.

  20. #70
    I was completely unable to run Thief 3 on my computer.

    Current spec's are:

    Pentium 4 - 3.06 ghz
    1 gig of sdram
    Radeon 9800 XT PRO with 256 megs
    Soundblaster Live
    Windows XP Pro


    I updated my directx to 9.0c
    I updated my ATI drivers to the latest version
    I even checked for Windows XP updates

    It still had the pete-repeat video-audio bug, and crashed before loading up the tutorial.

    But I found a fix. Apparently ATI's drivers are crap. I downloaded and installed Omega Drivers and now Thief 3 works like a charm. No more crashes or bugs. Why are the official ATI drivers so crappy?

  21. #71
    Dude, I don't have any problem. I'm running a P4 2.8 Gig with an ATI 9600 256MB and I can run the game on max setting without trouble. I'm using the drivers that came with my card, so you tell me what's up I don't get it.
    I am Garrett, the invinceable! I have a sharp little fruit-knife and knees that bend! HA! you can't touch me, I'm too low for you!

    can we fix this?

  22. #72
    hi every one
    I need help
    I can not run Thief Deadly Shadows on my PC
    when I try to run the game after the videos at the beginig the game will stop and a screen with this message will showup
    " Thief: deadly shadows has encountered a problem and need to close… "
    my PC information are:
    COMPUTER: IBM PC or 100% compatible
    OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows XP
    CPU: Intel Pentium IV 2400GHz
    MEMORY: 256 MB
    GRAPHICS: ATI radeon 9200 (128 MB) Direct3D 9.0
    SOUND: I dont know
    HARD DRIVE: 9,000 MB free hard disk space

  23. #73
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    Mar 2005
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    it's not your pc, it's the programming, read my post
    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=49387
    my computer is super-clean, i run ad-aware once a week and avg anti virus.

  24. #74
    Originally Posted by thegrommit
    Clearing cookies or the history will have zero impact on the ability to run Thief. Neither will it improve performance while playing it. However, it will slow down your surfing as everything on your favourite sites has to be downloaded again. And lets not forget time spent having to login again, or finding that page you looked at without bookmarking.



    If your disk uses NTFS (which you should be doing), there is no need to run a SCANDISK. Perhaps you meant Defragmenting?



    Switching from IE to another browser like Firefox avoids most spyware in the first place.
    Ah, thegrommit, remember me? It's been a while. I see you are up to the same old crap -- uselessly picking at someone's post when it isn't required, just so you can cheese someone off. Anyway, I just wanted to bring this up to you now that it's been a year. Remember how you told me that TDS requires the WinXP OS because of the intense graphic engine demand?

    More specifically, you mentioned it mostly has to do with the usage of pixel-shader, and 98SE couldn't handle it (Why is there a fix now that allows you to use 98SE to run TDS now? Must be F.M.). I mean, who the hell uses the more compatible OS of 98SE anymore? Well, every other game for a year thought enough people did. You can find support for 98SE on every new best-seller game up 'till now. Including the more graphically demanding (compared to TDS) Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords.

    I tried to tell you an OS has nothing to do with graphics, but rather processes and execution (like a CUE file on a game CD). Anyway, I just wanted to tell you a got WinXP without having to spend the ridiculous $200. And after a year of using it: 98SE allowed me to play every new and old (including DOS) game I own except TDS (XP can't). WinXP is buggy and to date, a wasted effort. One last thing: Certain companies (like we don't know who I'm talking about) must learn that they work for the customer -- not the other way around -- we pay them. And quit giving this tech info that you try to emulate as factual -- Either show some IT credentials or give your opinion without interfering with someone else's good idea.
    "That takes care of the creamation...."

  25. #75
    Hey guys,
    My current specs are:

    AMD Athlon 2500+ 1.83Ghz
    512mb DDR ram (2700 333mhz)
    ASUS Radeon 9250 256mb 8x AGP
    SB Audigy 2 ZS

    I cannot run the game smoothly in my desktop resolution, which is 1024x768, and I also get some choke when running it in 800x600. Could this be due to my RAM or is it my video card?

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