Thread: DX Inconsistenies

DX Inconsistenies

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    DX Inconsistenies

    Just a few things I noticed while playing Invisible War, and comparing it to the original

    In the original, the Datacubes suggest that Paul and JC are the only known people whose bodies can tolerate the nanites (and therefore augmentations), which is the reason that the Grey Death did not affect them and that MJ12 decided to study them on the first place. The others (like Walton Simons) supposedly had segments of their DNA modified (using Paul's DNA as a sample) as far as I understood it from that Datacube in the MJ12 Lab in the facility under UNATCO. But now, in IW, Donna Morgan says that 1 out of every 20 people tolerate the nanites.

    In the end of the original, in Area 51 facility, there are 4 chambers, each with a label. One of them was used for JC Denton, 2 others were some other guys, and 4th one was Alex Denton, which is apprently the character you play in Invisible War. However, Alex in IW remembers how he/she was put into Tarsus Academy at the age of 5. The subject in the chamber DX1 with the label Alex Denton is definately a lot older than 5 years old. And they couldn't have put him/her in Tarsus Academy first and then in that chamber because there was no Tarsus Academy yet at that time. Besides, didn't that area get destroyed when JC followed Tong's advice? So would Alex Denton you play in Invisible War be a completely different one, unrelated to the one you see in the chamber of the original? But if he/she is unrelated to the Denton brothers (except through biomods and DNA modification) then why does he/she have last anem Denton? Billie's last name is Adams, Klara's is Sparks, Leo's is Jankowski, so why would Alex's be Denton?

    Another thing I noticed, this is more of a minor ingame issue rather than an inconsistency in the story. All of the grenades in the original one could be both thrown and attached to the wall. In IW, the grenades that get thrown and ones that get attached are different. You can only throw 1 and can only attach the other. Shouldn't technology have improved since the first game and not deproved? Or are they still recovering from Tong's Dark Age despite the fact that their biomod industry greatly surpassed the biomod industry of the first game?

    As for the Illuminati, as far as I remember it was Morgan Everett, and not Chad Dumier or Nicolette DuClaire who contacted you in Area 51 asking you to restore the Illuminati so you 2 could rule it. Where in the world is Everett then in IW? Shouldn't he be in charge of the Illuminati?

    Also, Lin May Chen mentioned that her parents were Max Chen and Maggie Chow. Not saying it couldn't happen but it just seems a bit odd to me. No one mentioned anything about their relationship in the original DX1, and there couldn't be any relationship afterwards because JC killed Maggie Chow. And where did Lin May Chen live? She wasn't in Maggie's appartment, Max Chen seems to be in his Lucky Money club 24/7 so I don't really see where she could have been.

    And just have to add this, even though this is not really an inconsistency. In the intro when Dr. Nassif talks to the other scientist, he sounds just like Walton Simons from DX1.

  2. #2
    In the original, the Datacubes suggest that Paul and JC are the only known people whose bodies can tolerate the nanites (and therefore augmentations), which is the reason that the Grey Death did not affect them and that MJ12 decided to study them on the first place. The others (like Walton Simons) supposedly had segments of their DNA modified (using Paul's DNA as a sample) as far as I understood it from that Datacube in the MJ12 Lab in the facility under UNATCO. But now, in IW, Donna Morgan says that 1 out of every 20 people tolerate the nanites.
    Dunno about this one.

    In the end of the original, in Area 51 facility, there are 4 chambers, each with a label. One of them was used for JC Denton, 2 others were some other guys, and 4th one was Alex Denton, which is apprently the character you play in Invisible War. However, Alex in IW remembers how he/she was put into Tarsus Academy at the age of 5. The subject in the chamber DX1 with the label Alex Denton is definately a lot older than 5 years old. And they couldn't have put him/her in Tarsus Academy first and then in that chamber because there was no Tarsus Academy yet at that time. Besides, didn't that area get destroyed when JC followed Tong's advice? So would Alex Denton you play in Invisible War be a completely different one, unrelated to the one you see in the chamber of the original? But if he/she is unrelated to the Denton brothers (except through biomods and DNA modification) then why does he/she have last anem Denton? Billie's last name is Adams, Klara's is Sparks, Leo's is Jankowski, so why would Alex's be Denton?
    Well, I thought about this and posted it before IWs release, go check out that Alex Denton chamber a bit closer, as in try walking through it. You'll find it is the only one where this is possible, the rest are all solid. That would be the reason the likes of Wade Walker do not appear, they were destroyed, but that Alex Denton was not actually there.

    Another thing I noticed, this is more of a minor ingame issue rather than an inconsistency in the story. All of the grenades in the original one could be both thrown and attached to the wall. In IW, the grenades that get thrown and ones that get attached are different. You can only throw 1 and can only attach the other. Shouldn't technology have improved since the first game and not deproved? Or are they still recovering from Tong's Dark Age despite the fact that their biomod industry greatly surpassed the biomod industry of the first game?
    I guess it probably is the recovery from the collapse. The reason the biomod industry recovered so quickly is that Apostlecorp set up labs all over the world, which developed the technologies. Also, they still had Paul and JC to study. This is still a bit strange though, considering knocking out Area 51 didn't destroy all technologies, and I'm sure it didn't manage to affect every LAM or EMP grenade in the world.

    As for the Illuminati, as far as I remember it was Morgan Everett, and not Chad Dumier or Nicolette DuClaire who contacted you in Area 51 asking you to restore the Illuminati so you 2 could rule it. Where in the world is Everett then in IW? Shouldn't he be in charge of the Illuminati?
    As far as I am concerned, both Morgan Everett and Stanton Dowd died. Be it from old age, the grey death (if you didn't save dowd) or an assassination. Chad and Nicolette were still both members of the Illuminati (atleast Nicolette's mother was), therefore it would make sence that someone else would take over and considering that Beth (Nicolette's mother) had very close contact with Morgan Everett it would also make sence that it would be the leaders of the French revolutionaries.

    Also, Lin May Chen mentioned that her parents were Max Chen and Maggie Chow. Not saying it couldn't happen but it just seems a bit odd to me. No one mentioned anything about their relationship in the original DX1, and there couldn't be any relationship afterwards because JC killed Maggie Chow. And where did Lin May Chen live? She wasn't in Maggie's appartment, Max Chen seems to be in his Lucky Money club 24/7 so I don't really see where she could have been.
    Dunno, Max Chen's maid???

    And just have to add this, even though this is not really an inconsistency. In the intro when Dr. Nassif talks to the other scientist, he sounds just like Walton Simons from DX1.
    As you said, not an inconsistency, but still it was obviously the same guy and the first time I saw the intro trailer I was fooled by that.

  3. #3
    How exactly did Chad come to power? I was actually quite pissed at the guy - in Seattle, a hologram of him says that "JC acted alone, there was no terrorist threat". Dude, I SAVED you in the first game! Show a little more respect to JC!

    Edit: About your first comment, it's really impossible to say how nanites have changed since DX1 - clearly based on biomods and the intro sequence, they are far more advanced and diversified. Anyway, at Tarsus they were modifying the DNA, I believe.

  4. #4
    Here's an easy solution: DXIW was just a nightmare in JC/Helios' tortured and conflicting mind.

  5. #5

    mabye its just me...

    i realize this thread is way old.... but i registered just to ask this so...

    its been a while since i played deus ex... but i seem to remember the JC/helios merge and the Collapse as two sepperate endings... yet in IW they seem to have been one and the same... what happened there?

  6. #6
    It was not adequately explained.
    Catman

  7. #7
    They did something ingenius, all the possible endings happened in some way. Shame the game was utter crud thanks to its console compromises.
    Q6700 @ 3.2GHz, 4GB PC6400 RAM, Gigabyte HD 5850.
    Win 7 64bit

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by R3N394D3
    Just a few things I noticed while playing Invisible War, and comparing it to the original

    In the original, the Datacubes suggest that Paul and JC are the only known people whose bodies can tolerate the nanites (and therefore augmentations), which is the reason that the Grey Death did not affect them and that MJ12 decided to study them on the first place. The others (like Walton Simons) supposedly had segments of their DNA modified (using Paul's DNA as a sample) as far as I understood it from that Datacube in the MJ12 Lab in the facility under UNATCO. But now, in IW, Donna Morgan says that 1 out of every 20 people tolerate the nanites.

    In the end of the original, in Area 51 facility, there are 4 chambers, each with a label. One of them was used for JC Denton, 2 others were some other guys, and 4th one was Alex Denton, which is apprently the character you play in Invisible War. However, Alex in IW remembers how he/she was put into Tarsus Academy at the age of 5. The subject in the chamber DX1 with the label Alex Denton is definately a lot older than 5 years old. And they couldn't have put him/her in Tarsus Academy first and then in that chamber because there was no Tarsus Academy yet at that time. Besides, didn't that area get destroyed when JC followed Tong's advice? So would Alex Denton you play in Invisible War be a completely different one, unrelated to the one you see in the chamber of the original? But if he/she is unrelated to the Denton brothers (except through biomods and DNA modification) then why does he/she have last anem Denton? Billie's last name is Adams, Klara's is Sparks, Leo's is Jankowski, so why would Alex's be Denton?
    Most of this is going by my many memories of playing through the first one over and over but it's been a while. My understanding was that Paul and JC were both genetically engineered and this engineering allows them to tolerate the nanites. They were engineered in essentially the same way as Alex and seeing Alex hammers in the point that they had reached physical adulthood before they reached sentience. That being the case their memories of their parents and childhoods were all manufactered. Alex Denton in turn would have received much the same treatment. One thing that bugs me though is that I have trouble believing that the Alex in the tank is the same Alex in DX:IW. I can't imagine even if that tank survived that Alex would have survived in the tank for that length of time given the time difference between the games. I honestly think it's one of those names the devs picked because it's slightly genderless and they maybe expected us to forget we saw Alex in the tank on the first one. We also know that Alex can be male or female and I believe the Alex in the tank was definitely male.

    Originally Posted by R3N394D3
    Another thing I noticed, this is more of a minor ingame issue rather than an inconsistency in the story. All of the grenades in the original one could be both thrown and attached to the wall. In IW, the grenades that get thrown and ones that get attached are different. You can only throw 1 and can only attach the other. Shouldn't technology have improved since the first game and not deproved? Or are they still recovering from Tong's Dark Age despite the fact that their biomod industry greatly surpassed the biomod industry of the first game?
    I believe much of this is due to the fact that DX:IW overall is not as well designed and elements like this reflect that.

    Originally Posted by R3N394D3
    As for the Illuminati, as far as I remember it was Morgan Everett, and not Chad Dumier or Nicolette DuClaire who contacted you in Area 51 asking you to restore the Illuminati so you 2 could rule it. Where in the world is Everett then in IW? Shouldn't he be in charge of the Illuminati?
    I'm not sure on this one honestly.

    Originally Posted by R3N394D3
    Also, Lin May Chen mentioned that her parents were Max Chen and Maggie Chow. Not saying it couldn't happen but it just seems a bit odd to me. No one mentioned anything about their relationship in the original DX1, and there couldn't be any relationship afterwards because JC killed Maggie Chow. And where did Lin May Chen live? She wasn't in Maggie's appartment, Max Chen seems to be in his Lucky Money club 24/7 so I don't really see where she could have been.
    I guess the plausibility of this has to do with the fact that you really don't have to kill her in the game, you can use non-lethal means to stop her as with anyone. In that case it would be assumed that you didn't kill her but maybe just neutralized her in DX1.

    Originally Posted by R3N394D3
    And just have to add this, even though this is not really an inconsistency. In the intro when Dr. Nassif talks to the other scientist, he sounds just like Walton Simons from DX1.
    I noticed that as well and I remember that video coming out well before the playable demo coming out before the game was released. I take it as probably being an intentional move to try to get the mouths of Deus Ex fans salivating over the then upcoming release of the game.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by The Milky Bar Kid
    check out that Alex Denton chamber a bit closer, as in try walking through it. You'll find it is the only one where this is possible, the rest are all solid. That would be the reason the likes of Wade Walker do not appear, they were destroyed, but that Alex Denton was not actually there.
    Sure that's not just a game bug? Hmm... Now I'll have to install the game again and see for myself. I can't say I remember ever having been able to walk through that tank, but maybe I just didnt try...


    Originally Posted by abl5150
    [about Walton Simons' voice being re-used in DX:IW] I noticed that as well and I remember that video coming out well before the playable demo coming out before the game was released. I take it as probably being an intentional move to try to get the mouths of Deus Ex fans salivating over the then upcoming release of the game.
    Well, we all thought Walton Simons was somehow back in the game (pun intended) when that trailer was released - even though we severly blew him up in the first game. Other things got blown up/killed in the first game and still show up, so why not.

    Instead, it turns out it went something like this one day at the Ion Storm offices: "Hey Tom - you've got a great voice for video games and worked well in Deus Ex, and since we're already good friends; -would you mind doing a voice for the upcoming sequel to Deus Ex? Your voice is so generic I'm sure they won't notice." [sarcasm intended]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    1,172
    More likely they thought it would be a nice touch for DX fans, and didn't think everyone would jump to the wrong conclusion and get pissed off when it turned out they were wrong. We didn't all think it was Walton Simons, or a clone of him.

  11. #11
    It's not so much that I thought Simons would be in the game, although reaching such a conclusion wouldn't be very far fetched, IMO.
    It's more about attention to detail and continuity, which I think is important. This is just a tiny detail, but all the details make up a whole.

    I would compare this to Marlon Brando making a short appearance in The Godfather III, only this time as the janitor - with the same well known voice and body language.

    Watching a trailer of that - then watching the finished movie - would it have been seen as a 'nice touch' for the fans of the Godfather series - or would they go "WTF?"?

  12. #12
    i agree John, it wasnt well thought out... but then again the whole game wasnt exactly well thought out... it would seem that just had a few ideas, and then had like a month to implant them... its just one more thing wrong with the world...

    PS: your texture packs awesome john , wierd thing is that it actually IMPROVED my game fram rate, as well as looking better... wierd but cool

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by R3N394D3
    Another thing I noticed, this is more of a minor ingame issue rather than an inconsistency in the story. All of the grenades in the original one could be both thrown and attached to the wall. In IW, the grenades that get thrown and ones that get attached are different. You can only throw 1 and can only attach the other.
    I've got to agree, that was retarded. Not funny carrying 30 types of handgrenades with a small inventory like that.