Thread: Rope

Rope

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    14

    Rope

    It's a dead horse so you don't have to tell me.

    After reading the arguments regarding wall-climbing vs rope arrows, I'm prepared to settle for scaling walls provided that the mechanic can't be abused and is implemented in such a way that there is a risk whilst using it. Make it due to extra noise or a dynamic failure mechanism (climbing errors causing Garret to hang temporarily or lose all grip, causing a player to fall to his death).

    What then is the harm of including a linear rope arrow weapon? The arguments for realism are flawed due to the setting of the world and can't be taken seriously. Firing a shaft with a "fibre arrow head" that could explode on impact letting down a "certain amount" of rope is a feasible idea that would accomodate the interests of people, like myself, who have actually played the previous Thief games.

    That includes "Thievery"...

    When I need a quick escape and everything seems hopeless, with the player guards closing in on me, I always take a look at what's above me and fire an arrow in a desperate attempt to escape. This is what it means to be a true escape artist and it would be a terrible shame not to include this "embarrasingly-easy to-implement" idea.

    Edit: The message was half complete when posted due to me having to rush to a lecture.

  2. #2
    I do weary a bit about the constant harping about "realism". The entire THIEF universe is not real.

    It is fantasy magic mixed with alchemy and psuedoscience. The acceptance of potions and other arcane tools without qualm leaves more than enough room for ROPEARROWS.

    As for "Spiderman" gloves, I would much prefer barehanded, rock climbing skills. Find the right crack, insert fingers and climb.

    But this moan about "realism" is a joke.

  3. #3
    Originally posted by theBlackman
    As for "Spiderman" gloves, I would much prefer barehanded, rock climbing skills. Find the right crack, insert fingers and climb.

    Exactly! But I don't think they will be "special climbing gloves", rather just something to protect the hands from becoming sore.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    91

    Cool

    uuuuuuuummmmmmm yeh reality sucks.
    which is why we all play thief.
    to escape reality.
    however i'm quite certain that in reality rope arrows could exist.
    all you would need is some rope an arrow and a small hemp bag.
    put most of the rope in the bag.
    tie a small bit to just underneath the head of arrow very tightly.
    then tie the closed bag to arrow somewhat loosely.
    notch arrow in bow.
    shoot arrow into wooden roof or awning.
    force of arrow hitting wooden object would cause bag to come untied thus releasing rope inside.
    bag falls to your waiting hands.
    you climb up rope till you get to a point where you can safely dismount.
    then you remove arrow and rope tied to it all in 1 motion rope falls back into bag.
    no magic required.
    Do not fear the dark.
    Fear what it hides.

  5. #5
    your forgetting that an arrow cant support over 200 pounds of weight.....it would snap or come loose...

  6. #6
    Originally posted by wipeoutxl21
    your forgetting that an arrow cant support over 200 pounds of weight.....it would snap or come loose...
    Crossbows with steel pitons are used to secure ropes. Given that THIEF is a universe that contains "magic", the real world does have quarrels, or bolts (the shafts used in crossbows) made of metal that can easily support the weight, the Ropearrow of Garrett's world is not that far fetched.

    True, a standard cedar shaft cannot support the wieght. But if I, as Garrett, can jump off a building and use a "slowfall" potion, my feeble mentality can easily accept a Ropearrow, and all its attendant abilities without batting a mental eye.

  7. #7
    true, im not saying that everything in thief must make sence. The game would suck if everything was logical. But you are correct, with the right bow and arrow, it is physically possible.

  8. #8

    Big Grin

    wipeoutxl21

    Not intending to be argumentative. But "reality" applied to THIEF is a stretch. In fact, some actions in THIEF are paralleled in Real Life.

    But, the suspension of REAL in any game, especially one of this type, goes with the territory. Just as it does in reading a book.

  9. #9
    My thought is that changing rope arrows to climbing gloves has less to do with staying "true" to the original games & more to do with ease of programming. Not that I've ever programmed anything but I can only imagine the difficulties with trying to create a "rope arrow" in Thief. This includes how Garrett & other objects in the game interact with the rope, etc. Even with the original games they didn't always get it right. It could be very difficult to get onto a rope that was shot into a beam you were standing on and I've had numerous occasions where I was bounced around on the rope in different ways.

    A climbing glove is much simpler--you just program Garrett to be walking "up" instead of walking "across". No worries about how long the rope is, or how Garrett gets onto or off of it, or how far from the wall it has to be for Garrett to use it or whether you can shoot one into a crate, etc.

    Possibly the climbing gloves will merely be a way for Garrett to enter "climbing mode", indicating that you can only go up or down. Take the gloves off & you can go forward, backward, & sideways again.

    Am I sounding totally ignorant?
    "Give him a gun & he's Superman--give him two guns & he's God."

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  10. #10
    Originally posted by ChowYunFat
    My thought is that changing rope arrows to climbing gloves has less to do with staying "true" to the original games & more to do with ease of programming. Not that I've ever programmed anything but I can only imagine the difficulties with trying to create a "rope arrow" in Thief. This includes how Garrett & other objects in the game interact with the rope, etc. Even with the original games they didn't always get it right. It could be very difficult to get onto a rope that was shot into a beam you were standing on and I've had numerous occasions where I was bounced around on the rope in different ways.

    A climbing glove is much simpler--you just program Garrett to be walking "up" instead of walking "across". No worries about how long the rope is, or how Garrett gets onto or off of it, or how far from the wall it has to be for Garrett to use it or whether you can shoot one into a crate, etc.

    Possibly the climbing gloves will merely be a way for Garrett to enter "climbing mode", indicating that you can only go up or down. Take the gloves off & you can go forward, backward, & sideways again.

    Am I sounding totally ignorant?
    THe code for a standard ladder is the exact same thing as a rope arrow. All they need to do is when a rope arrow is shot, calculate the point at which the arrow hits and create a "ladder" that extends downward from that point. Its not at all about the coding.

  11. #11
    The problem probably isn't really the coding (and yes, I understand the basics of coding and do some myself). If I was making T: DS, and it was close to being finished, I'd be more worried about the extra testing and possible glitches this would create. You'd have to test it to make sure you couldn't escape the boundaries of the areas with the rope arrows, etc... just my opinion anyway
    2006: The world's first MMO game that allows players to do anything is created; world chaos ensues.

  12. #12
    Has it been confirmed that there will be no rope arrows?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    1,718

    Unhappy

    Please read the forum and various messages before you post a question that has been answered and discussed here as well as IoS forum, etc. very much! Why do you think this thread was started? Ta and Good Hunting!
    It's not how you win the game, it's how you PLAY it! Have FUN!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    26
    What I really fear is about the atmosphere of the game. Thief I and II had a superb and exciting atmosphere, with weird, disturbing and scary sound effects. All my life I never saw a game like Thief before (or System Shock 2)... and I saw a LOT of games.
    I'm also concerned because I was NEVER a Deus Ex or a Daikatana fan - definitely - they are no match at all to LG's Thief I and II (even SS2). I really think - it's only my opinion - that I'm not an Ion Storm-games fan.... so far.
    Because Looking Glass did so damm well with Thief I and II, and with SS2 (another superb game!), I am skeptical about Thief DS, but I'm ready to give a chance to IS redeem himself... at least for me!

    Oh, one more concern: the so called 'MIT grads-games'. What the hell they are talking about? are they planning to decrease the game's complexity to match school boys-IQ?

    are they planning to make a game for morons - only to be more profitable????

    And one more thing: I will miss the robot sentinels from Thief II....

  15. #15
    My thought is that changing rope arrows to climbing gloves has less to do with staying "true" to the original games & more to do with ease of programming.
    I too understand something about programming and have done some myself, and I agree with wipeoutxl21 on it being a minor challenge to create the rope arrow system. And besides: They did it (and rather well, I might add) for Thief I & II, how would it be any harder today than it was a few years back? I understand they now even have a ready-made physics engine to handle the motions involved in swinging with the rope etc.

    Possibly the climbing gloves will merely be a way for Garrett to enter "climbing mode"
    You have a point there.

    Oh, one more concern: the so called 'MIT grads-games'. What the hell they are talking about? are they planning to decrease the game's complexity to match school boys-IQ? are they planning to make a game for morons - only to be more profitable????
    I sincerely hope not and am very afraid they will.


    -JR-

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Kyle2k
    Oh, one more concern: the so called 'MIT grads-games'. What the hell they are talking about? are they planning to decrease the game's complexity to match school boys-IQ?

    are they planning to make a game for morons - only to be more profitable????

  17. #17
    TY to wipeoutxl21 & Jareware for your information. If it's such a minor thing to add rope arrows, I would really like to know why they've been omitted since they were an important part of the original. I'm willing to give the new system a chance though.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
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    2,704
    I don't know, but with the new physics engine a swinging rope might be an issue. That could be hard to program -- a swinging rope is not at all like a ladder. A rigid rope, like a ladder, should be easy to program as has been said, but maybe the designers had some problem with it. Could it have looked too stiff?

    Anyway, I am not making excuses for the developers. I think that they should have offered an explanation for this decision, because it obviously seems like a step backwards. And, I would rather have a rigid rope than no rope.