View Poll Results: Are the Hylden really so bad? (READ THEORY FIRST)

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Thread: [SPOILER] Are the Hylden really so bad?

  1. #1

    Unhappy Are the Hylden really so bad?[SPOILERS]

    Each time i play Lok im confronted with the fact that the Hylden have a right to be angry they were actually trying to free the vampires from the Elder god and refusing to submit to the weel of fate when The Anients started the war and banished them for not submitting to a False god it is only natural for them to want vengance for being banished to a Demon demention what do you all think hylden bad or good?
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  2. #2
    The Angel of Death Guest
    if i was a hylden & i managed 2 get out on the demon demension i would want VENGENCE ( just what the sarafan lord did or try 2 do in bo2)

  3. #3
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    While you ask if the Hylden are "bad", I think that the same question should be applied to the Ancients. Up until they went on their little "quest for conformity", there's no evidence suggesting that the two races didn't coexist at least somewhat amicably beforehand. (We've only been enlightened to what happened after the Ancients sought to "pollute" the land with their own ideals).

    I do agree that the Hylden have a right to be somewhat ticked off about having another belief system crammed down their throats and falling victim to the "greater cause" of the Ancients (and ultimately being punished for refusing to conform), however the retaliation aspect of the issue is what makes the Hylden appear more "sadistic" and "evil" or "bad" if you will. By the same token, this issue should really be looked at from both sides. Both races feel that they and their ideals are more benevolent than the other. Does this make them "good" or "right"? Maybe in their own eyes, but certainly not in everyone's.

  4. #4
    Both the Ancients and the Hylden have been guilty of trying to eliminate each other during their wars. The only difference, as far as I can see, is that the Hylden aimed for outright genocide using the Device, and the Ancients seemed to settle for banishing and containing their enemies. However, the demonic dimension was a hellish place, so was that actually merciful, or more cruel in the long run?

    As with most interpretations of 'evil', it is really a matter of perspective, as Umah said.

    The only thing which makes me come down on the side of 'Hylden are evil' is that their vengeance wasn't just directed at the Ancients. The Device was designed to destroy all vampires, humans, everything. This indiscriminate attitude makes them seem amoral. It isn't really justice - they apparently intended to use it even before their banishment, and I think it goes far beyond self-defence.

  5. #5
    This is a difficult case... Of course one might say that the evilness of the BO2 Hylden was only a result of their imprisonment in the demon dimension, but remember the murals from their city- they are all downright creepy!

  6. #6
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    Basically, I don't think that "good" and "bad" apply to anyone in this series (except Sebastian. That traitor's bad. Come to think of it, Moebius is too...anyway)

    I think that the Elder God just exists. He's trying to survive any way he can and I respect that. I definitely think he needs to be destroyed, but I don't view him as evil. Now, in the process of surviving, the Elder God tricked the Ancients into being his puppets. As puppets, I think that they border on being bad, but I like Janos too much to say that they're all evil . The Hylden saw through the Elder Gods' trickery and refused to become his puppets, which makes them border on being good. But it never really was about good and evil. It was always about survival. Desperation rarely allows someone to stop and think over what they're doing. The Ancients were desperate for the Elder God's love and approval. The Hylden were desperate to avoid a life-cycle like that. Both sides were willing to do anything to survive, including banishing their opponents to a hellish dimension or inflicting the curse which separated their opponents from the Elder God they loved so dearly.

    If I had to pick a side that I would consider to be "right", it would be the Hylden because the Ancients started the war. However, after their banishment in the other dimension, the Hylden have become quite vicious and right now, all bets are off. You have to go on an individual basis (which you should have done before, but really the only ones you knew were Janos, the Builder, and the Seer).

    Anyway, after all of that rambling, I'm going to choose that the Hylden were neutral because I really think that both sides did some terrible things to survive and I don't think that the Hylden were particularly bad compared to the Ancients.

  7. #7
    I agree with WraithStar. Really, I couldn't have said it better

  8. #8
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    Awwww, thanks

  9. #9
    I'm on the side of the hylden.

    just look at it in our own world, In some countries people are executed for their beliefs.

    & I don't really like Janos

    *waits for hate mail*
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  10. #10
    they are nutrel !
    the vampiers fighot for nothgoth and as well did the hylden they both wonted to roll nothgoth

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Zephon
    I'm on the side of the hylden.

    just look at it in our own world, In some countries people are executed for their beliefs.

    & I don't really like Janos

    *waits for hate mail*
    Well, I do like Janos, but to each his own. I agree that the Hylden have a right to defend themselves. I was on their side too, but as van_HellSing PL says,
    remember the murals from their city- they are all downright creepy!
    I had forgotten about the murals where they depict themselves as torturing humans and vampires. If they did do that, I can't consider them to be good.

  12. #12
    I too, don't think it is a term of good and evil. All the ancients really are guilty of is falling victum to deception. But just because they were ignorant to what they were doing, doesn't make them evil. If they had learned the truth, I'm sure they would have changed their ways.

    Just because the Hylden caught on to the whole "Wheel of Fate" dilema, doesn't make them good either. Their culture seems to go along the lines of "rape and pillage", learning about life so you can destroy it. They're very domanitive, and sadistic, even in their methods of revenge. After all, they turned the ancients into that which they hated most. Beings outside of the wheel of fate, which preyed apon others.

    The ancients; on the other hand, are not about conquest. They seem to want to create in harmony. They didn't seem to have any affiliation with humans, where as the Hylden seemed to always torture humans.

  13. #13

    The hylden

    The hylden might of created the device to destroy humans aswell because humans can be turned into vampires

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by HolyMoses
    I too, don't think it is a term of good and evil. All the ancients really are guilty of is falling victum to deception. But just because they were ignorant to what they were doing, doesn't make them evil. If they had learned the truth, I'm sure they would have changed their ways.

    ...

    The ancients; on the other hand, are not about conquest. They seem to want to create in harmony. They didn't seem to have any affiliation with humans, where as the Hylden seemed to always torture humans.
    I have to disagree about the ancients. They are the ones who started the war, who wanted to conquer the Hylden and bind them to the wheel of fate. Maybe if they knew what the Elder God really was, they wouldn't have followed his orders. However, if they believe in something strongly enough to kill for it and to die for it, they should be held accountable for their own actions. I despise puppets who act according to someone else's commands and then claim they didn't know any better.

    As far as the Hylden go, I appreciate the beautiful irony of the curse. It was a very clever idea. On a personal note, though, I definitely do not like the idea of characters I like being cursed.

  15. #15
    The Angel of Death Guest
    Originally posted by Zephon
    I'm on the side of the hylden.

    just look at it in our own world, In some countries people are executed for their beliefs.

    & I don't really like Janos

    *waits for hate mail*
    2 me janos seems 2 be a xeption 2 it

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by The Angel of Death
    2 me janos seems 2 be a xeption 2 it
    If by that you mean that Janos seems to be genuinely good, I agree.

  17. #17
    The Angel of Death Guest
    Originally posted by WraithStar
    If by that you mean that Janos seems to be genuinely good, I agree.
    yes thats wat i mean by it i would say u 1st see this in sr2 when raziel meets him

  18. #18
    How can the Hylden be bad? They're green. They're not even ripe yet.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist.

    Seriously, I don't really buy into the whole good and evil thing. Every race did its share of evil deeds while claiming the side of righteousness. Heck, look at actual history. It's filled with idiots pulling the same "ends justify the means" and "they deserve it" baloney. True sadists and other lunatics are thankfully very rare. I haven't played BO2 yet (the family tends to complain whenever I play unsavory characters), but from what I've read it sounds like the Hylden would fit into the crazy category. I guess spending a few centuries banished to Hell could drive anyone into a psychotic, murderous rage (see above "they deserve it" baloney).

    In short, are the Hylden evil? No. Are they crazed psychopaths bent on revenge? Yes.

  19. #19
    what if the hylden are not themselves anymore? hmmm maybe they're controlled by some evil monster or something...
    The Sarafan Lord:
    It was justice, for our banishment from the world. You see what it has made of our once fair race?
    they were once fair and peaceful....now they are mutants...

  20. #20
    Lets face it, neither the Ancientsor the Hylden are what they once were. The Ancients are all but extinct and the Hylden have been warped by their banishment. They may have both started with a noble cause in mind but it isn't that way at the end of Defiance.

    Also it depends what point of view you are taking. If you are Hylden they you think you are good and the ancients are bad and visa versa.

    To be honest I don't think the question of who is good and who is evil is really relevant within the Ancient Vs Hylden struggle. The whole thing has moved way beyond that.

    DW

  21. #21
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    I surmise that the demonic dimension truly did make the Hylden crazy with hate, at first i believe the Ancients in their blind belief in their rightous cause (kinda like the Church during the crusades and all those jihads from the Muslims) committed evil acts by starting wars with the Hylden, the Hylde were at first innocent but their once fair and assumingly peaceful race has fell to blind hatred and possibly derangement from the demon dimension, it must be noted that the seer in BO2 who is a female Hylden who escaped the banishment doesnt seem to carry any vendetta against the ancients, it was stated that she owed vorador for some past favour and also the Hylden Lord tried to kill her which is ironic since she is herself a Hylden and possibly the only true Hylden left

  22. #22
    Originally posted by The Angel of Death
    yes thats yat i mean by it i would say u 1st see this in sr2 when raziel meets him
    Although i agree he dose seem good he also is still a believer in the Elder god when he said the Hylden banished us from Gods Grace and "God" turned his sight from us and fell silent
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  23. #23
    Both Vampires and Hylden have shown that neither of them are saints and thats what I like about the story.It's not a clear-cut case of good versus evil,"history is written by the victors" in Raziel's words.Both races have their dirty secrets.But I am definetily with the vampires because of what happens to Nosgoth when the Hylden come out.
    "One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate. And thus defy the tyrranus stars." -Kain

  24. #24
    What I'd like to see is a fragile alliance between Kain and the Hylden Lord against Elder God. Maybe even the HL as a playable character?

  25. #25
    i choose nuetral since nobody really knows who started the war... nobody except Amy

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