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Thread: Is it true? (recent events discussion)

  1. #26
    Originally posted by GoranAgar
    I didn't close it, right? ... right? ... right.
    Right. *clams up about keeping thread open*


    And when he gets to Heaven, to St. Peter he will tell... "One more soldier reporting, sir. I've served my time in Hell."

  2. #27
    Games aren't the only things that have been discussed here in the past, and they won't be the only things discussed here in the future. And as long as this doesn't become flammable, I don't see why this shouldn't be okay . Too many times, these topics do, but that doesn't mean that this does.
    "The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Irony? Are you sure about irony, or that it's an oxymoron?

    Seriously, in debates here, we're angels compared to the people in political chat rooms on AOL. Those people are insane!

    I went to a Conference today (that was supposed to have been about Leadership), but instead was about social activism. I didn't walk out very happy about how it went. One of the speakers, Dr. William Fletcher.....I don't care for him very much now. I don't think he even had anything positive to say about the US and the government. I'm no fan of President Bush right now, or how the government is going right now, but Dr. Fletcher didn't withhold any of his opinions. It's enough to make you embarrassed to say you're from the same country as this person.

    We were in smaller groups today, before the main speech. I wanted to smack the guy that was doing our "Leadership" group. He pretty much said, that everyone is a leader, even the people in jail for murders....... Ugh, what a day!

    At least when Danny Glover (yes that's right! Danny Glover!) spoke, he did it with composure and eloquence.

  4. #29 befitting an actor?

  5. #30
    I'm happy this has been going on in a civilized manner!

    I'd like to assure all our american friends in this forum that the world isn't laughing at them but rather at president Bush - and the renaming of food - between friends, now imagine between enemies... And if some (or many, no matter) are, they would be anyway cause they always are and what can you really do about it? That could be called the colonists complex - many european ignorants (or not at all but somehow stupid) have that thing in relation to a newer country which grew to become a super power, it's understandable albeit silly. Other places on earth, well, they do have some complaints I believe, but that was hardly the point here...

    And the main point about this war is it will not affect the US alone but the whole world - because of one person... So, I hope you can understand why the world isn't very happy with the prospects...
    Anger is an energy!!!!

  6. #31
    Well Jorge, make that at least TWO PERSONS. SADAAM THE FIRST, and possibly BUSH THE SECOND.

    And I am certain there are a handful more in the woodwork worldwide.

  7. #32
    Well, ok, Sadaam too.

    Btw, someone mentioned North Korea somewhere in a post and I'd just liked to say I watched a very interesting documentary on Odissey channel just the other day, which had been shot both in North Korea and South Korea (nobody could know the crew was going to both places...). They have some propaganda ministry there that spread out things like this: when their leader died, many thousands of herons (I think) descended from the sky to take him up to heaven. When they arrived they saw the entire population shouting and crying and hitting on their chests and pulling out hair and so they had to go back. Later, they returned and solemnly took him to his mausoleum.
    You wouldn't believe how many stories of the kind are told to everyone ever since they are little kids - that will grow up believing in all of that!
    In fact, their leaders (father and son) are supposed to have amazing magical powers!
    It's another world and it's in our world...
    Anger is an energy!!!!

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2002

    Big Grin Yes, I'm laughing!

    And I'll keep on laughing!

    The news are so frightening these days. I watch the news every morning and evening in fear. I don't want this war to happen. I'm terribly afraid of what the consequences will be.

    But something terrible is easier to face with a laugh and a good sense of humor! I laugh.

    It is so easy to form a strong opinion about something you haven't seen. It goes both ways! I've heard Europeans saying things about the US without having been there to see for themselves. And the other way around. I've lived a short time in State of New York and I've travelled around a little. Enough to know that I love the US! And it's inhabitants! Very much! And I want to come back and see more, and to get to know you a little better.

    I also know there is a huge difference between politicians and citizens. I think the government in most countries do things the public opposes. They think they know better and that they have the power and right to enforce what they want. My government does that all the time. So, what I'm saying is, I don't think most people judge the American citizens.

  9. #34
    Steps in to add her 2 cents worth:

    First off the renaming is lame, let's just get that out of the way. Secondly, those who say this government and our leader have gone awry, need to rethink their statements. How would you feel if you woke up knowing that the Space Needle in Seattle or the Hoover Dam or some other prominent landmark had once again been taken out by terrorists? Terrorists funded and aided by Saddam? You'd be changing your tunes pretty fast. So I say lay off the President, let him start and finish this war, because that's what is going to happen anyways. The US is going to win, we always do, and if other countries want to laugh, go ahead, let them. When Saddam is dropping bombs in their backyard, then maybe we should set back and laugh then.

    As for N. Korea, well, I only have one solution for that situation: I say bring it on, because they will lose too!

    I guess I am just proud to be an American, I love this country, and I love my freedom. I just want everyone to be safe, and in my opinion, this is the only way. Evil people never never change, so don't expect Saddam to change.

  10. #35
    Let me just state that I believe Saddam may finance terrorist groups but I do doubt he finances Bin Laden. As you should be aware Bin Laden and Saddam never got along well... It isn't because of what the government says that something becomes a fact.
    I'd also like to add that the world isn't laughing at the war. The war is not a laughing matter, much less for those directly involved, in this case the people in the Middle East who happen to be people too. The world is certainly laughing at Bush but that's because he is laughable. And of course, many other leaders may be laughable too - they're just less visible. A leader is not a country. Be proud of your country, not necessarily of its leader. Please, do not let your pride blind you...
    Anger is an energy!!!!

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    There's some really good points on all sides here! And I think that's the main point - there are no easy answers and certainly no black or white.

    I agree strongly with yubetcha - we don't know the full facts, we don't know what Bush (and others in power know), and even if I did know these things I'm glad I don't have to make the decision.

    What I do think though is this:

    I'm a Labour supporter but not mad keen on Tony Blair. I do however think he's an honourable, truly Christian man and my gut instinct is he would not be drawn into some senseless war...he would need a good reason... (trusting a's gotta be my downfall )

    The ceasefire terms of the Gulf War were that Iraq disposed of it's weapons of mass destruction...there are now 17 UN resolutions against Iraq....Saddam still hasn't complied...after 12 years...

    Sometimes unfortunately (and I truly mean this because I am anti-war, as I think most people are) a war is needed, history has shown us that some people in power have to be stopped before they do even worse things...

  12. #37
    I in turn agree with you 100 percent, Susan. Wouldn't it be great if we could all live in peace from the time we are born to the time we die. But that's a Utopian world. It isn't going to happen. Some people DO need to be stopped before they do worse things. I can imagine what would have happened if Hitler would not have been stopped! And Saddam KILLS HIS OWN PEOPLE! The reason we have no-fly zones in the first place is because Saddam gassed people in his own country. What would people do if Tony Blair gassed his own people? Or George Bush gassed us? And his son tortures Iraqi athletes who don't perform well! So it's a mindset that the whole family has. IF I was an Iraqi, I sure as heck would want Saddam to be gone. And that reminded me of something I heard on talk radio yesterday. Recently, the military was practicing, getting ready for war. They were shooting rifles, throwing grenades, etc etc. Just practicing. And all of a sudden, some Iraqi soldiers came up to them with their arms up, saying "I surrender! I surrender!". They thought that the war had started. This was just a few days ago. The military didn't know what to do. Do they tell them to go back to their barracks? Do they take them as prisoners? When this war starts, you can bet that it won't last long. There will be many defectors. I don't want war, but IF a man like Saddam is gone, and IF it only lasts a few days or a couple of weeks, which it will, then perhaps it won't be so bad. The lesser of two evils, if you will.
    Some entertainers are really speaking their minds. Crissy Hinds of the Pretenders said that she hopes we lose. That's like saying she wants our men to die. (How else could we lose)? Very few people want war. But sometimes it's necessary, unfortunately.
    And yes, it's been shown on the news that Saddam supported the terrorists of September 11.

  13. #38
    And really, it isn't just pride that says we will win. Those of us who know what our military can do just know that we will win. No brag, no arrogance, just fact. You wouldn't believe the advanced weaponry that we have, such as the HARM missile. It stands for High speed Anti Radiation Missile. While in flight, it picks up the pulses given off by radar, and follows those pulses to the radar, blowing it up. During the Gulf war, it got so the Iraqis were afraid to turn on their radar. The manager of the company that makes that missile went to Saudi Arabia during the Gulf war, and the pilots gave him a standing ovation.

  14. #39
    Well, a lot of innocent will suffer. And guess who they will blame?

    Anyway, to get back to another question, there's a very old Confucius saying that states that "the wise man rolls his tongue in the mouth seven times before he speaks" - I guess that could apply to Crissye Hynde (or however you spell her name) as well...
    Anger is an energy!!!!

  15. #40
    Many innocent people suffered under Saddam. Many people actually died at Saddam's hand. I am sure that people blame Saddam, and rightly so.
    Yeah, perhaps Crissy didn't realize what she was saying. But I agree, she should've thought about it first, as you said.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Originally posted by yubetcha
    What would people do if Tony Blair gassed his own people?
    If Tony Blair starting gassing us and we, the people, couldn't do anything about it - I would want the rest of the World to intervene and save us...I would want the Americans to take him out, and the French, and even the Iraqi's if necessary...

    I would want them to do it immediately and not waste time deciding if it was legal under International Law...because IMO if International Law doesn't make it legal to take out the leader of a country when they're gassing the civilians, then it needs fixing.

    I wouldn't want them to pass numerous (not worth the paper they're printed on) resolutions through the UN. I wouldn't want them to wait years and years and years.

    I would want them to act quickly because maybe two or three generations down the line, all Britain's former values would be lost and my grandchildren might no longer want to be liberated.... Instead they might think they were the free ones and it was the other countries that needed to be liberated.

    Originally posted by yubetcha
    Some entertainers are really speaking their minds. Crissy Hinds of the Pretenders said that she hopes we lose. That's like saying she wants our men to die.
    It might interest to you know not all entertainers think this way. Franco Zeffirelli was interviewed on one of our news programmes and he said this:

    Instinctively, we say, "Let's give us peace at any cost," but then we have to do a kind of political reasoning about situations, and perhaps sometimes war is inevitable. War is necessary, like it happened so often in history....My instinct is for peace, but there is something else to be taken into consideration. What's the price of peace? I am putting on a Pirandello play at the moment, which translates 'Right you are if you think you are' and if you think you are right, like England and America are thinking obviously, otherwise they wouldn't push the issue that far, so we might take into consideration that, after all, England and America have saved Europe three or four times in our history, and they have always chosen the right path. Or if you want to put it the other way, if it's a dangerous trip, would you like to have for companions England and America, or France, Germany and Russia?

    When asked why other people from his industry were anti-war he said:

    They have always been anti-something, anti-Vietnam, whatever was available to be anti-, they were always there. They were anti-Angola, pro-Castro. Unfortunately, the so-called left-wingers in the performing arts often go by instinct, an ideal, a kind of Utopia again, which is there always in the field of performing arts. Utopia, dreaming of a planet where there is no social injustice, where all men are equal...

    Doesn't make him right, but it's food for thought.

  17. #42
    I'm glad that Franco said that. Perhaps he's not far off. And I would want the same if Bush gassed us, and I would accept help from anyone.

    BTW, I want to apologize for Donald Rumsfeld. I missed what he said, but I gather that it wasn't good. This is what is said about him:

    "One of the concerns is that he often oversteps his bounds and comments on diplomatic issues rather than military issues, and that he moves into the realm of State Department affairs. His comments you certainly could characterize as being that of a loose cannon. He's a forceful, almost cranky, personality who seems to delight in the press coverage that he's gotten."

    Peter Singer of the Brookings Institution, indicating that U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is doing U.S. foreign policy more harm than good with comments alienating key allies

    I hope he doesn't alienate our allies. You can bet that he's being reprimanded. At least I hope so. He has his right, but I think he should stay with what he's familiar with.

  18. #43
    Originally posted by GoranAgar
    Does anyone know a good political forum?

    Love and Pace to All People


  19. #44


    The key to all this animosity is tolerance! If people could respect and live with the differences that bless our world, the differences that make us all individuals rich and diverse in culture and experiences, I'm sure the world would be better off. Unfortunately, certain dictators fail to accept the diversity of the world and so presume their beliefs, religion, and policies are the ultimate. It is so sad that we have reached this point yet again, with regard to the Middle East, but personally I feel the only way to put an end to this sad, sad, situation is to rid the world of Saddam Hussein!!!

  20. #45
    Well put, Laramaniac.

    May I also suggest:
    forgiveness, patience, love, kindliness, gratitude, sympathy, charity, hope, friendship, mutual respect, honor (non-killing type honor), commaraderie[sic], trust, faith, fidelity, togetherness, compassion, truth, justice .....

    and while I'm at it:
    french fries, beer, rib steaks, saurkraut, conrned beef and cabbage (<------the Irish couldn't figure out how to pickle cabbage; aka saurkraut); tostadas, polish sausage, blintzs, crepes Suzette, oyters on the half shell and Budweiser!; hershey's chocolate, Dr. Pepper, French Roast coffee, hotdish, tuna fish on rye, rice with steamed vegetable and soy sauce, fish and chips, 'roo burgers, ox tail soup and finally, Parrot Tongues Under Glass.

  21. #46


    Here in the UK we were sadly used to experiencing random acts of terrorism for around 30 years.

    We don't have to imagine it.

  22. #47
    Then you know what I'm talking about. I agree... it IS sad. Terrorism is a scourge that the world would be better off without. How dare they attack people because they don't like the way they live, or any other reason? And saying that they are attacking because we are in the Middle East is a lie they hope people will believe.

  23. #48
    As for Saddam's connection to al-Queda: This is from a news article by a newswoman, Trudy Rubin:

    The Bush administration claims that Saddam has trained members of this al-Qaeda nest in making chemical weapons. I have always doubted that Saddam would help al-Qaeda - whose leader, Osama bin Laden, just labeled him an infidel - to attack the United States. I thought Saddam would find this too risky, because if the link were discovered it would provide justification for "regime change."

    But Kurdish intelligence officers tell me that Iraq is helping this small al-Qaeda cell for a more local reason - because these terrorists are attacking secular Kurdish leaders. In other words, Saddam is willing to make common cause with his al-Qaeda enemy to keep himself in power, and al-Qaeda will use his help for its own goals...

  24. #49
    Possible, I guess... I wish I could say something with certainty...
    Anger is an energy!!!!

  25. #50
    I believe the Kurds.

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