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Thread: Final Fantasy In My Opinion

Final Fantasy In My Opinion

  1. #1

    Final Fantasy In My Opinion


    *Introduction
    *What makes a Final Fantasy
    *Stream of continuity then change
    *Why FFVII is popular
    *"Fan base shuffle 1" and "2"
    *Is Square-Enix money hungry?
    *Balance of familiarity, change, polish
    *Final Fantasy XIV
    *Conclusion
    *TLR

    ***Introduction:


    Final Fantasy is a grand RPG. It has set the standard for RPG's and opened up the genre to a very broad fan base, up to and including the popularity of MMORPG's. Over the years Final Fantasy has been known for a number of things, and has seen some of the greatest of fame, and also, its company, currently Square-Enix, has seen the darkest of hours. From its initial release to bring the company out of possible demise, up to developing one of the gaming industries most famed video game, and to its current range of gamers from children, to adults. It is no question that Final Fantasy has made a name for itself, and is a staple in the gaming industry not to be reckoned with. The purpose of me writing this is to shed light on some of the infamous titles, the supposed faults, the very misleading thought that Final Fantasy could be losing its touch, and my opinion why FFVII was considered so popular, and other such topics.


    ***What people associate with the name "Final Fantasy":

    There are a number of things that people associate with the name Final Fantasy so I'll break this down into a compiled list.
    (Please do not hesitate to add anything I have missed as this list is difficult to compile by just one person.)
    -The Lore
    Anyone who has ever played Final Fantasy knows the story, and its components are the leading attribute that sets Final Fantasy apart from other games and RPG's.
    1. The story of the Crystals ("Light and Darkness cast aloft")
    2. A story which seems to be as a paradox. (SPOILER ALERT!) Such as in FFI where Garland creates a time loop, and once the Warriors defeat him the events are erased, as are the memories of the Warriors themselves.
    3. A fantastical story which seems to imitate reality. (for example FFVII, and FFTactics.)
    4. A tale that illustrates a wonderful spiritual cause for existence. (FFVII, FFXIII, FFVI, FFIX etc.)
    5. The summons in the specific form of a actual being.
    With this topic I will go into detail due in fact because a title that just throws the name of a famous FF summon does not create the nostalgia factor (NF). Although FFI did not include summons, the series has formed, over time, what each summon looks like. When seen by a fan, they could very easily state "That is Ifrit from the Final Fantasy series!" If one was to show someone the picture of Ifrit from FFXII, they would never be able to tell you that it was indeed Ifrit, thus that title does not pay actual tribute to the summon Lore "nostalgia factor." (From here on out I will refer to Nostalgia Factor as "NF."
    6. Moogles, Chocobos, Cait Siths, Cactuars, and the very popular Cid. Very high NF.
    -The Gameplay
    1. The job system. For this topic, it also is much like the summon "NF" and requires familiarity in order to obtain true NF. The ability to change jobs, either in menu, or in combat (the latter creating a more fast pace battle system, thus catering to "casual" players, and "hardcore." Even the ability to very sparingly mesh the jobs together through spells, equipment, or other such venues is still considered as NF. Jobs in which are common with the Final Fantasy name can be found in FFIII, and Tactics, especially the ones that repeat in both of those games have a high NF factor.
    2. Customization also has a NF. From collecting items to create more powerful items, such as FFI's Excalibur, and FFXII's Tournesol, to FFVII's Materia system, to FFIX's "ability point" system. Especially, the concept of with each Final Fantasy the way in which you level has been different with each installment. This factor is very famous with the Final Fantasy name, yet also poses great difficult on the development side. Although the degree of difference need not be as great such as the difference of FFI and FFII, or FFVIII and FFX, it very well can be more subtle, and still serve its purpose.
    1 & 2, the problem that is sometimes caused with the job system and customization, is the level of customization can very easily take away from the Job systems NF. The solution is something like FFXIV in either its current ARR form or FFXIII-2, but change the "Ravager" roles name to Black Mage, and you have a very high level of NF for both customization and job system. (Yes sometimes its just that simple.)
    3. The Active Time Battle system. Even though the ATB is definitely a Final Fantasy related term, I dont believe it has any real NF factor. (This is my personal opinion.)
    4. The ability to ride a Chocobo for quick, easy, and free travel. Its self explanitory and has a very high level of NF
    5. The ability to ride an Airship for even quicker, easy and free travel. Very high NF
    6. Chocobo Breeding, especially for advanced travel abilities or for racing features. Very high NF
    -The Music
    1. Definitely by far the music has a very high NF factor. From the battle intros found in FFI-VI and IX, to the Final Fantasy theme, and Crystal theme, to the famous victory fan fare. Who could ever forget the famed Chocobo theme.
    2. "Token song" I'm using this term to identify a song that is not common to the series as a whole, but a song from one Final Fantasy, simply placed in another Final Fantasy. This has not been done very often, but I feel has a very high NF factor. The best example is FFIX while watching the ATE "Orchestra in the Forest" the band plays the Rufus welcoming theme song.
    If a game does not contain at least a high level of at least 2/3 of each of these subjects, it will not, IMO, be highly accepted by the general Final Fantasy fan base, that has been formed over the 25+ years. This brings us into my next subject,


    ***"Streamline of continuity" and "Why FFVII was popular."


    Everyone who has ever played a Final Fantasy always separates a certain number of Final Fantasy's from another set of numbers. Some people say "FFI-FFVI are the classics, and FFVII-present are the trash, different games." Some say "FFVII-FFIX are the classics, and anything after is just too different, the old ones are just out dated." Others "FFI-X, XII-XIII are real Final Fantasy's and FFXI, and FFXIV, shouldnt even be considered as part of the mainstream titles." Whatever the difference for this I am going to seperate FFI-FFVII, from FFVIII-FFXIV (including the -2 sequals of X and XIII.)
    From FFI-FFVI there was a high level of NF, and the develper did not try out such a high level of innovative ideas, quite possibly due to console limitation. The cause of this is, like I mentioned, a high level of NF. FFI-VI all had NF in music, the ATB, Lore, etc etc from each title to the next, the greatest of variation from title to title simply was the characters, and the exact plot and specific trials, even then it did not vary too much. If you recall some replayed the crystal story, contained the character Cid, and a lot of people died. What I believe happened, is Square developed a fan base, and the fan base knew when they played the next Final Fantasy, had a very good idea of what they were going to get in the next title. The fan base was loyal, because the product stayed very similar. As most people know though, when something stays too familiar for too long, often times it becomes stale, and people become, as Cloud would say "Not interested." Examples are Double Dragon, Quest for Glory, Jet Moto, Ultima etc etc. I believe, with the advancement in technology, unintentionally Square developed a game that prevented that staleness, and with the revenue they incurred from the previous titles, pushed their next installment, the consoles limitations, and the genre itself to new heights.
    Final Fantasy VII was finally released. It had a nice level of new fresh ideas from the company, yet it didnt deviate too far from the NF level created from the previous titles FFI-FFVI. It still contained the original themes songs, (Chocobo, Crystal, Main, etc.) It had a high level of Summon NF, Cid was now a main party member, you could breed, raise, race, and advance your Chocobo's travel capabilities, creating a very high level of NF, yet also introducing an even higher level of new ideas all at the same time. They introduced a new feature of a theme park, a highly customizable materia system, it had vehicle chases, the world was set in a more modernized world, and many other things not yet introduced into the series. What I believed happened is they developed a fan base, then created a game that stuck to the original genre, enough to bring in the current fan base, yet was different enough to bring in a vast amount of new players. The people familiar with FFI-FFVI felt that FFVII was a bit different, but brought a fresh new approach to the game, while new players were introduced to the series, and were enveloped with an immense crave for more.
    So to recap, the series made its self a name, and then got a taste of how to bring in new players, yet kept the original base mostly satisfied. I feel if SE then decided to make the next few titles follow more in line with FFI-FFVI, and implemented just some of the more popular ideas from FFVII, and stuck to that for at least 3-4 more titles after FFVII (FFVIII-FFX or so), they could have easily repeated this process and would have never upset any "FF veterans."
    Square formed a fan base, made a "hook title" then I guess went "hook title" crazy, and started just being over innovative with each title implementing too many new ideas with each title that the "Streamline of Continuity" was completely broken. Although there is nothing wrong with developing title after title for a new crowd, and bringing in new players to the franchise from a financial stand point. It does though kind of feel like a slap in the face to the people who have been fans of the series for so long.
    This is where FFIX comes into play. FFIX was a "bring back" game. FFVII and FFVIII really stand out in the series from FFI-FFIX. They both share a lot in common with each other, yet stand so far apart from FFI-VI, and IX. Most people who were introduced to Final Fantasy through FFVII, and then played FFVIII, they felt a sense of common ground, much more so though, than the players of FFI-FFVI. So here is what happened, FFI-VI fans sat through two games that seemed to deviate from the series a bit more than any other title, they then get a feeling that the series might be changing a bit too much. Square even noticed this trend, and decided to create a game where "The Crystal is back!" Ah, but yet another problem is created by doing this, the people who played FFVII, and FFVIII, play FFIX and feel that, that game is a little different from the two previous titles, and feel the series is taking a turn from what they find as common place. As great as FFVII-FFIX was, it formed a fan base, who in a sense, couldnt define a Final Fantasy as well as the fan base from FFI-FFVI. So what happened financially, you get only a portion of people who played VII and VIII to buy FFIX, a portion of people who played FFI-FFVI who buy FFIX, instead of the majority of them all. If FFVIII was more like FFI-FFVI, instead of almost exactly like FFVII (in retrospect to new ideas/NF factor) and FFIX was less like FFI-VI and more like FFVII and FFVIII, then you would have a new streamline of continuity. This approach might not have generated as much of a financial revenue as it did, but it wouldnt have created the static that was formed with the FFI-FFVI fans, from the FFVII-FFIX fans (this forming our first separation line.)


    ***Fan Base Shuffle 1


    It can very easily be seen from a financial stand point that SE could make more money from making highly innovative games such as FFVII, and FFVIII, instead of trying to please the veteran fans with titles like FFIX. With this mind set SE truly went innovative at full force. With the introduction of the PS2 Square-Enix had yet more resources at their finger tips and introduced even more new ideas with the FFX title. They even introduced the first ever Final Fantasy sequel, FFX-2. The finances further support that innovation sells better than the NF factor. One thing SE might not have taken into account is the FFI-FFVI fan base isnt completely out of the picture, with FFIX they still have that light of hope, not to mention they did enjoy FFVII-FFIX. At this point nothing is holding SE back, they take a very bold step and create the first MMORPG, FFXI. This is when most people, fans of Final Fantasy just about had enough. Many fans said FFXI shouldnt have the main numbered title. This creates yet another division. The outcome? FFXI becomes the most profitable game in the series yet. SE then decides that its best to make MMO's and it wants all its fan base to play MMO's.
    By many people FFXII can very easily be seen as SE's Final Fantasy version of "My first MMO." FFXII has many MMO traits, and was seen by many as a way to get people into the MMO market.


    *** Is Square-Enix a money hungry company?


    At this point many might be thinking "well hey SE is just money hungry, and doesnt care about its fans" ah, but you could never be so wrong. As a company there is really only two ways to determine how well youre satisfying your fans. Everyone knows that its impossible to satisfy everyone, so the best thing to do is deliver the best game you can, in hopes that more people can enjoy it. The best way to determine this from a company stand point is by revenue. So far, each game that has been more innovative and different in game play, music, and other such so called "NF" factors the more Square-Enix thinks its delivering exactly what the fans want. The other way to decide how well a company is delivering to its fan base, is by communication. Square-Enix has three ways to contact the company. Its two "money makers" has their own specified forum, the FFXI forums and FFXIV forums. The company itself has designated forums for the Final Fantasy title, some having bundled specified forums such as the "FFXIII and FFXIV" forum, all found on the Square-Enix website. I cannot think of a company who cares more about its fans than Square-Enix. (IMO)


    ***Fan Base Shuffle 2


    This leads us into the next two installments of the Final Fantasy series, FFXIII, and FFXIV. This creates our last division of players. There are many people who have only played FFXIII, and there are even people who played FFXIV and enjoyed it. FFXIII on so many levels has been the most innovative titles in the series. The music is completely different, the game play has very little FFI-FFVI NF factor, the lore NF isnt even noticeable until after you beat the game, but it also is one of the titles that actually makes sense in story/game play retrospect. (SPOILER ALERT) In FFXIII youre a L'Cie, a "slave" branded by a Fal'Cie, given a focus, and if not completed you become a monstrous Cie'th, who eventually if not killed becomes a Cie'th stone thus rendering the person immovable ever calling for help to complete the focus they were given that they might one day obtain some form of rest, youre constantly on the run, thus the game play does not allow for "free to roam" mechanics such as an open world. Think about it, would you be out hunting the lost Excalibur, trying to dodge lightning 200 times in a row, or flying an airship to a lake to find the summon creature Leviathan? Unlike in FFVII there is a meteor about to hit the planet and Cloud is out playing games at the Gold Saucer etc etc. There are ups and downs to each video game, the key to success is obviously balance. Square-Enix clearly knows its limitations, and is far from losing money, going under, or the dreaded "killing Final Fantasy" its laughable to even try to conceive such a thing at this point. One thing though is we have all seen the worst received Final Fantasy to date, Final Fantasy XIV.


    ***Final Fantasy XIV


    FFXIV is definitely a staple in the Final Fantasy franchise, but unmistakably its not a good one. Many people in the gaming industry are highly meticulous, expect the best of the best, and wont settle for less, especially from the name Final Fantasy. The major problem with this is when FFXIV was released it was put under a much larger microscope than any other game ever would be. If FFXIV was called something like "The Tale of Eorzea" and was made by "Younameit Games" it might have received a much better initial rating. Something like "amazing graphics from an Younameit Games" and "such innovation, and customoztion" but you cannot forget the "Very buggy, but makes up for it in gameplay" and "Still needs a lot of work, but what MMO doesnt at launch, good game I can recommend it." The fact it was a Final Fantasy title people expected much more, and confidently slapped it with a 5/10. If it was "Younameit Games"it could have gotten like a 7/10 or so. With all that being said if you look at how SE handled it, it further proves they love their fans, and are trying to give them what they desire. They changed up the development team, and went right on to fixing the game. If they didnt care about their fans, and only wanted to make money, they would have never tried to revive the game. The reason being, they are doubling their output cost on development, probably two fold. They spent the money to develop the original game, the money to develop FFXIV:ARR, and even the money to keep FFXIV 1.0 running while FFXIV:ARR was in development.


    ***Conclusion


    The conclusion is no Square-Enix is not trying to kill Final Fantasy, no Square-Enix does not hate their fans, yes Final Fantasy XIV, XIII, and every other Final Fantasy is a great game in its own regard, and..... Yes SE needs to find that proper balance of "Streamline of Continuity" and the Nostalgia Factor. Not everyone plays MMO's and to more satisfy their console players, hold true to the NF factor. The reason I have written this is because I own, and have played nearly every game with the Final Fantasy title in it. I certainly own and played all the titles with the roman numeral. I have only not beaten Final Fantasy V. I played FFXI 10 years after it was released and I am a level 87 THF. (This is no secret as my name in the forums, my name in FFXI, and FFXIV is Daniolaut.) With that much dedication to a single series, I feel I owe my response here on the official Final Fantasy forum to say thank you Square-Enix for all the wonderful games you have provided me in my life time, and I know you will continue to do so. I also would like to suggest to other players, relax, enjoy the games you play, and try not to critique them so much, maybe you might enjoy them a bit more.
    Personally I try my best not to know absolutely anything at all about a Final Fantasy until I play it. I wont watch teaser trailers, I wont read articles, nor look at screenshots, I even try not to read the back of the video game case before I play it. This way I know next to nothing before I play the game, and I try to beat the game before I make any judgement. The reason? The first time I ever played Final Fantasy, I played it for about 2 hours (+/-) and decided I hated it. My brother bought the game, even though I told him not to, and since it was a household with a shared console, I had to watch him play, after a few days, I asked.. "can I play?" and since then I tend to find it hard to pick up any other game because nothing can seem to deliver as well as a Final Fantasy can. I hope I see you guys in Eorzea! (Final Fantasy XIV) Take care and happy gaming!


    ***TLR


    Final Fantasy made a staple in the gaming industry with FFVII, each title has contributed to its "nostalgia factor." The series is not going anywhere, and Square-Enix does care about its fan base, and has only done things to make games that reflect it. A whole lot of my opinion from the Final Fantasy's i've played, being over 30 of them.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    5

    I have bought 23 years into the Final Fantasy games, and now I am here to say; Final Fantasy has fallen. I have kept my mouth shut for 12 years. From 10 - 14, they have been a huge disappointment. I played FF11 for 10 years and stopped due to Square "Enix" gimpping the game and trying to make it more like World of Warcraft. Ever sense the Enix merge; The company has went down hill. Mainly due to Enix couldn't make good games at all. Why would Square take advice after the merge from there competitor in rpg making that couldn't keep up? Dungeon Siege is a great example; How many people liked Dungeon Seige that didn't like Squares 3rd installment to the series? I played for it for 5 minutes and I was done. Beat FF10, was really annoying and the story sucked; the last boss "Sin" was horrible. Defeat your collection of Avatars... the end. I Tried FF13, it was a repeative flip flopping of charactors and two zones then boss, repeat .... garbage. FF14 is nothing more then a shot at World of Warcraft all over again. Hotkey Icons! WoW. Instances! sound familiar! WoW. Job system, just like FF5 only not as detailed as FF5 and the gameplay is more like Dragon Age. I just can't believe how the #1 RPG turned into what it is today! I hope they keep making crap games so I know what to expect from them and I know plenty of people that won't waste their money. Good Luck square Enix with your 200,000 likes and your persual to compete with World of Warcraft's 10,000,000. Warcraft 1-3 were good games, but not WOW. I couldn't stand it because they tried to copy from SE's FFXI. I wanted Square to squash all the other competitors but It's not about the game anymore, it's all about the figures.

  3. #3

    Yea, SE has made way too many changes to the series. Actually, it's more like 'eliminations'. I've found myself with no interest in reserving "Lightning Returns" because of this. I'm in the "Wait and see" mode now. A 'good' series will stay within familiar territory and true to its roots.


    FF1-9 had a certain 'style' about them. It's easier to understand if you've played them all. Honestly, for me, I saw FF12 as a 'glimmer of hope'. I thought the FF series was getting back on the right track with that game in terms of being 'expansive'.


    I can definitely understand a company wanting to try new things(They needed to grow and enhance what they had). But, if you want to make something different, then make a different series. Why hack away at a perfectly fine work-of-art of a series when you can make something different and actually give it a 'different' name? Some people start to lose interest after so many changes. All the while other people begin to take interest. It's just exchanging one customer for another. What's the point? Stick with what works.

  4. #4

    Originally Posted by Akirasan


    I have bought 23 years into the Final Fantasy games, and now I am here to say; Final Fantasy has fallen. I have kept my mouth shut for 12 years. From 10 - 14, they have been a huge disappointment. I played FF11 for 10 years and stopped due to Square "Enix" gimpping the game and trying to make it more like World of Warcraft. Ever sense the Enix merge; The company has went down hill. Mainly due to Enix couldn't make good games at all. Why would Square take advice after the merge from there competitor in rpg making that couldn't keep up? Dungeon Siege is a great example; How many people liked Dungeon Seige that didn't like Squares 3rd installment to the series? I played for it for 5 minutes and I was done. Beat FF10, was really annoying and the story sucked; the last boss "Sin" was horrible. Defeat your collection of Avatars... the end. I Tried FF13, it was a repeative flip flopping of charactors and two zones then boss, repeat .... garbage. FF14 is nothing more then a shot at World of Warcraft all over again. Hotkey Icons! WoW. Instances! sound familiar! WoW. Job system, just like FF5 only not as detailed as FF5 and the gameplay is more like Dragon Age. I just can't believe how the #1 RPG turned into what it is today! I hope they keep making crap games so I know what to expect from them and I know plenty of people that won't waste their money. Good Luck square Enix with your 200,000 likes and your persual to compete with World of Warcraft's 10,000,000. Warcraft 1-3 were good games, but not WOW. I couldn't stand it because they tried to copy from SE's FFXI. I wanted Square to squash all the other competitors but It's not about the game anymore, it's all about the figures.

    Originally Posted by Akirasan


    Yea, SE has made way too many changes to the series. Actually, it's more like 'eliminations'. I've found myself with no interest in reserving "Lightning Returns" because of this. I'm in the "Wait and see" mode now. A 'good' series will stay within familiar territory and true to its roots.


    FF1-9 had a certain 'style' about them. It's easier to understand if you've played them all. Honestly, for me, I saw FF12 as a 'glimmer of hope'. I thought the FF series was getting back on the right track with that game in terms of being 'expansive'.


    I can definitely understand a company wanting to try new things(They needed to grow and enhance what they had). But, if you want to make something different, then make a different series. Why hack away at a perfectly fine work-of-art of a series when you can make something different and actually give it a 'different' name? Some people start to lose interest after so many changes. All the while other people begin to take interest. It's just exchanging one customer for another. What's the point? Stick with what works.



    Yep.

    To use an analogy: '80s music was technically "pretty", but utterly void of content; along comes Kurt Cobain (i.e.: Nirvana), and - in his simplicity (he couldn't even read music) but immense depth of content - shatters the standard, revolutionizing music overnight (and, in the process, puts '80s hairbands to shame).
    If S-E doesn't become its own "Kurt Cobain" (so to speak - i.e.: revolutionize itself) another company is bound to come along to revolutionize RPGs - cutting out all the technically "pretty", frilly, nonsense they've allowed to become so pervasive in their RPG culture and bringing depth of content back to the forefront.

    "It's just a game" - go do something else if you aren't going to take your product seriously!
    Who wants to go watch a B-movie - and what kind of person can he be who settles for producing a B-product?

  5. #5

    I think that is the problem why so many players of a previous Final Fantasy are so upset.

    I personally am not upset, because like I said, I dont go into a Final Fantasy expecting anything.. except a fresh new game.

    Each game in the entire industry is different, but there has been, is, and i presume always will be something in each Final Fantasy that out shines other games.

    I have tried so many games, so many friends share with me what they feel is the best game they have played, but the games they recommend never entice me. I play them for a given amount of time, and they never seem to reach the level enjoyment that each Final Fantasy has. The interesting thing about this, is most people who suggest a game, is not as highly involved as true fans to the Final Fantasy series are. I tend to see other players of other games jump game to game and series to series. The only other series that comes close to the Final Fantasy series is the Zelda series. I have tried Zelda, and it just doesnt compare to Final Fantasy in my opinion.

    I played Final Fantasy XIII, and Final Fantasy XIII-2 and they were fantastic games. Final Fantasy XIII-2 being the best game I have ever played. I welcome Lightning Returns, and will have it paid for on release day.

    I have been playing Final Fantasy for over 15 years and I plan to continue doing so. I am active in waiting for Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, and was active in Version 1.0, and will be playing FFXIV:ARR, and Lightning Returns as well. I dont get irritated when there isnt an over world map, or any other such mechanics, I take each installment as an individual, and so far I've not been let down.



  6. #6

    I know there are people who have no problem with the changes. I have no problem with those people. Why would I? lol You like what you like. The problem I have with SE is I'm not seeing the kind of work in FF games today that I saw from 1990 to 2000. I like how they developed the games back then.


    It's getting to the point soon when I'm not going to be dragged along for the ride anymore 'hoping' the 'next' FF will return to what made the series great in the first place. I've said it over and over again - If SE wants to do something different to attract new people, then they should create a different series for those people. Right now, they're just trading a customer for a customer and a coin for a coin. All they're doing is keeping a divided fanbase. Some people are happy, others are p'd off. It wouldn't be this way had the company not become so obsessed with "Change" inside of 'ONE' videogame series. What is a 'series' these days anyway? Has SE changed the definition as well? I've always thought 'familiarity' and 'consistancy' were important in a videogame series.


    I've noticed that some of the people who are happy don't care one way or another. So, they should have no problem if SE gets back to making the games as close as they can to the earlier style. I swear, if SE could, they'd change the name of an 'Orange'. lol

  7. #7

    Originally Posted by alanman178


    I know there are people who have no problem with the changes. I have no problem with those people. Why would I? lol You like what you like. The problem I have with SE is I'm not seeing the kind of work in FF games today that I saw from 1990 to 2000. I like how they developed the games back then.
    Exactly, they are diminishing in quality.


    Originally Posted by alanman178
    It's getting to the point soon when I'm not going to be dragged along for the ride anymore 'hoping' the 'next' FF will return to what made the series great in the first place.
    Exactly


    Originally Posted by alanman178
    I've said it over and over again - If SE wants to do something different to attract new people, then they should create a different series for those people... What is a 'series' these days anyway? Has SE changed the definition as well? I've always thought 'familiarity' and 'consistancy' were important in a videogame series.
    Right. Agreed.

  8. #8

    Originally Posted by alanman178


    I know there are people who have no problem with the changes. I have no problem with those people. Why would I? lol You like what you like. The problem I have with SE is I'm not seeing the kind of work in FF games today that I saw from 1990 to 2000. I like how they developed the games back then.


    It's getting to the point soon when I'm not going to be dragged along for the ride anymore 'hoping' the 'next' FF will return to what made the series great in the first place. I've said it over and over again - If SE wants to do something different to attract new people, then they should create a different series for those people. Right now, they're just trading a customer for a customer and a coin for a coin. All they're doing is keeping a divided fanbase. Some people are happy, others are p'd off. It wouldn't be this way had the company not become so obsessed with "Change" inside of 'ONE' videogame series. What is a 'series' these days anyway? Has SE changed the definition as well? I've always thought 'familiarity' and 'consistancy' were important in a videogame series.


    I've noticed that some of the people who are happy don't care one way or another. So, they should have no problem if SE gets back to making the games as close as they can to the earlier style. I swear, if SE could, they'd change the name of an 'Orange'. lol





    Originally Posted by alanman178


    Originally Posted by alanman178


    I know there are people who have no problem with the changes. I have no problem with those people. Why would I? lol You like what you like. The problem I have with SE is I'm not seeing the kind of work in FF games today that I saw from 1990 to 2000. I like how they developed the games back then.
    Exactly, they are diminishing in quality.


    Originally Posted by alanman178
    It's getting to the point soon when I'm not going to be dragged along for the ride anymore 'hoping' the 'next' FF will return to what made the series great in the first place.
    Exactly


    Originally Posted by alanman178
    I've said it over and over again - If SE wants to do something different to attract new people, then they should create a different series for those people... What is a 'series' these days anyway? Has SE changed the definition as well? I've always thought 'familiarity' and 'consistancy' were important in a videogame series.
    Right. Agreed.



    Simply put SE has made games that in my opinion are of much higher quality than any other game out there.

    Like I said, the so called "fans" of Final Fantasy (mentioned in the "fanbase shuffle" of my OP) do not support Final Fantasy because at the slightest change in developent they jump ship.

    The wonderful thing is for every one person who jumps off 100 jump on.

    Final Fantasy VII was worlds away from what Final Fantasy VI was like and was the best selling FF. Final Fantasy VIII followed the trend of FFVII, and also sold well. The "old, classic" fans complained, SE made a game that was more fitting for the I-VI fans and it didnt sell in comparison to VII and VIII.

    So SE kept making changes because that is what the people wanted.

    The perfect example. A lot of people claim to dislike FFXIII because they wanted "freedom" so SE makes FFXIII-2 (best game of all time IMO) and it didnt sell .. yet again. People say one thing, and dont put their money where their mouth is.

    Now for the "Limit Break" piece of information.

    What Final Fantasy is absolutely nothing like any Final Fantasy that has ever existed? I'll tell you, its the most highly anticipated Final Fantasy of all time..

    FINAL FANTASY VERSUS XIII!!!


  9. #9

    The changes in the series were never as drastic as the move from FF9 to FF10. The biggest difference between FF6 and FF7 was the transition from cartridges to cds, and the heavy world-wide promotion of 7. The games themselves offered similar gameplay and game content consructed from the same mold that FF games came from since the beginning. All of the changes made over the period of FF1-FF9 were subtle in comparison to the changes we've seen since FF10.


    Now, I didn't get all 'crazy angry' when FF10 came out. It had a lot of great ideas. I don't look for things to gripe about in these games. Sometimes, the problems are just large enough to easily reveal themselves. I was a little bothered about how much more linear FF10 was than the previous games. It was the 1st game in the series that I felt was just too 'compact'. I was used to traversing larger worlds and freely roaming the skies in airships. It was the 1st time Squaresoft had strayed that far, so I didn't let it bother me too much. FF10-2, 13, and 13-2 strayed too far for me. FF13-2's world was just a jig-saw puzzle version of FF13. If that was SE's thought of an "open-world", then that company really doesn't have a clue anymore.


    I was happy with the series from 1990-2000. I just haven't been too happy with it since then. SE has eliminated some of the reasons why I even played the games to begin with. So, how does someone enjoy a videogame series (with all of its subtle changes and new ideas) for 10 years, still look forward to the next game with excitement, then suddenly not enjoy it as much? The "subtle changes" have turned into "drastic reconstruction". A beginning of continuous attempts to "re-invent" a series.


    Well, don't mind me I guess. I'm just a "so-called fan". lol I've only been playing FF games since 1990. How dare I complain at any time. Give me a break. lol Heck, I didn't start complaining about the series in forums until last year. I'm a long-time fan with a valid argument. I think I've given SE a fair chance.

  10. #10

    I'm a bit torn by this conversation. I agree that the gameplay and the open world were better from FF I-IX, but at the same time I feel that SE has been making leaps and bounds storywise. VIII is by far my favorite (probably becasue it was the first one I beat and it got me into the series), but I also love XIII and XIII-2. I feel that the story was much more concrete. And others will disagree with me and that's ok.


    Each game has it's own good side and bad side. But I would argue that if SE did't change things up the fans would get bored. I'm sorry I don't think that XIII would be as good using the same gameplay as VII. And VIII wouldn't be as good using III's gameplay. It just wouldn't. I have complaints with all the games, but that's fine because none of them were perfect.


    Take each game for what it is, don't try to compare them to another. SE is doing it's best for the fans. They can't make everyone happy. So I'm quite content with them making the best games they can. Yes they messed up with XIV. But the great thing is they admitted it and are completly redoing it. Why? It's for us, the fans. You didn't see Mass Effect 3 get remade when Bioware screwed the pooch.

  11. #11
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    [General Forum Guidelines]


    [Avoid personal attacks on others. A player’s passion for a game can run high, but that isn’t license to target others in the heat of an argument.]

  12. #12

    Please do not turn my personal thread of how much I enjoy Final Fantasy, regardless of the minor changes of gameplay into a rage thread.

    So far Gary seems to be the one person who understands the turn Square-Enix has taken.

    The story is the best and respectfully so, should be the best and highlight feature of any RPG.

    RPG's are story driven, and I support Square-Enix's decision to remove overworld map and free roaming airship travel for a more fluid gameplay style to support greater immersion, and putting more focus into the story.

    Final Fantasy XIII, and Final Fantasy XIII-2 by far had the most in-depth, and enthralling story of any Final Fantasy to date. Many people who have played FFXIII and FFXIII-2 complain that there are plot holes, but I feel there is so much information in those games that its mind blowing. The concept of those two stories are just so well played out and wonderfully expressed in gameplay and additional menu content, I cannot seem to get enough.

    If there are so many people who honestly prefer airship travel over gameplay, being that immersion takes place when a world is more befitting itself such as all things being proportional and maintaining a constant visual appearance, and still feel that is not what they look for in a game. Possibly Square-Enix should make an airship simulation game of some short. Something that is a spin off of the main series.

    Again, I prefer the main focus to be story over world travel mechanisms. I have loved the Final Fantasy series, and I dont look for things that arent in a video game when I play them, I play them to enjoy them. I know Square-Enix will continue to put a great deal of time and money into each Final Fantasy installment, and they have proven that with Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. This company cares about their fans, and I feel has the best communication, and "customer care" over any gaming company in the market. They have supported the things I enjoy about video games time and time again. So again this is simply me giving back.

    If you have developed a hatred to the current series, but still wish to enjoy the series you grew up with I have a suggestion. Instead of reading all the hate threads, and watching the game trailers, looking at screen shots, and reading game reviews. The next time a new Final Fantasy is announced learn absolutely nothing about except the release date, and go pick it up. Play it, but only play that game, forget all other Final Fantasy titles you have ever played, and try to play it with and open mind. This way you will not be looking at the changes they have made, and simply will be playing the game for what it truly is. When you do this, I have no idea how you could not see what a masterpiece it truly is.

    If you look for everything that is not in the game while playing it, there is no way you could enjoy it.

    Games are meant to be played and enjoyed, not picked apart to find its flaws. No game is perfect, and no game ever will be because we live in an imperfect world.

  13. #13
    Ah and might I add one thing I love about this site in particular. When someone claims to support, or not support Square-Enix, and the Final Fantasy name, you can get a slight idea of how valid that statment is by their games registered simply by clicking on their name.

    How i love this site.

  14. #14

    Originally Posted by Daniolaut
    Ah and might I add one thing I love about this site in particular. When someone claims to support, or not support Square-Enix, and the Final Fantasy name, you can get a slight idea of how valid that statment is by their games registered simply by clicking on their name. How i love this site.

    Come on now, that whole paragraph is unnecessary. I'm not on here to play the whole "Whos is bigger" game. lol I'm just stating my opinion along with a few facts here and there. I didn't mean to stir up anything in here though. I just don't like being labeled a "so-called fan". I'm a fan of the 1st 9 FF games and pretty much everything thing else pre-2001. Also, I thought FF12 was a pretty good game as well.


    I've never had any problems with the stories in any FF game. I just don't like the 'stage-by-stage' type of gameplay in a numbered FF game. FF10's didn't bother me too much because, it was the 1st time Squaresoft(at the time) had done that. SE did it again in FF13, and that frustrated me a little bit. I've already mentioned in a previous post that I don't look for things to gripe about. It's just that when I get used to certain types of content being in a series, and that content gets better and better as the series progresses, it kind of sucks when it suddenly gets dropped.


    I was 14-yrs-old when I 1st played FF1. I was 24-yrs-old when I 1st played FF9. 10 years of enjoying all of those FF games on the NES, Gameboy, SNES, and PS1. The only real gripes I had in that period of time were how they implemented "Odin", no armor, and the Disc-4 limitations in FF8. The game was large enough though that those few things were nowhere near enough issues to make me dislike it overall.


    I'd just like to see a new FF game offer more depth and flexibility without a required monthly fee. My argument isn't about what's 'in' the games these days. It's about what isn't.

  15. #15

    Originally Posted by Daniolaut


    If you have developed a hatred to the current series, but still wish to enjoy the series you grew up with I have a suggestion. Instead of reading all the hate threads, and watching the game trailers, looking at screen shots, and reading game reviews. The next time a new Final Fantasy is announced learn absolutely nothing about except the release date, and go pick it up. Play it, but only play that game, forget all other Final Fantasy titles you have ever played, and try to play it with and open mind. This way you will not be looking at the changes they have made, and simply will be playing the game for what it truly is. When you do this, I have no idea how you could not see what a masterpiece it truly is.

    If you look for everything that is not in the game while playing it, there is no way you could enjoy it.

    Games are meant to be played and enjoyed, not picked apart to find its flaws. No game is perfect, and no game ever will be because we live in an imperfect world.



    I completely agree with this statement.

  16. #16
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    If you play a game with a stratagy guide, you are not old school. The last Final Fantasy installments (10 - 13) required a stratagy guide or a predetermined battle stratagy. Thus taking away from the "stratagy" of the game. Final Fantasy 13, predetermined path... predetermined boss fights... predetermined charactor selection.... so if I play FF13 and beat it, then you too played it the exact same way I had to? Where is the adventure? And it was so good that we needed another FFX13 part 2. How long did it take for FF13 to become a greatest hits? FF-XIII released in 2010 @ $59.95 and Greatest Hit @ $19.95 in end of 2010. I know that really good games just fall in price month after month. Final Fantasy 13-2 went from $59.95 from 2012 release to $14.95 on ebay early 2013.

  17. #17
    Well to get 100% completion on FFX and on FFXIII saga thus far you don't need any kind of strategy guides because the games are so linear and easy that you just need to push forward and spam the X button. You can easily beat any Toriyama/Kitase FF-game in a seat down while watching a football game, that is how barebones and simple they are.

    As for the fast price drop I think SE will argue it happened because XIII games are so good and awesome they wanted everyone to play them. Apparently SE doesn't care about making profit out of their major franchise, that is the reason why they keep pumping Lightning games one after the other despite fans opinion and demand.

  18. #18
    Yeah you guys turned my thread into a raging hate thread. Thats all we need..

    Final Fantasy is a great game, and i'll stay loyal to SE through thick and "thin."

    I personally think FFXIII had the best story to any FF, and FFVIII was my fav FF until FFXIII-2. XIII-2 was simply amazing.

    Too bad I will be playing FFXIV without you guys.

    It would be awesome to have the most FF fans in FFXIV instead of WoW fans.

  19. #19

    FF12 WAS the peak but bad advertising did not help!.

  20. #20
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    Well since the story is tip top, look at other threads about SE's struggle to get more scenario writers. Why is FFXIV "Three years" after the post production release, still not functioning correctly? Sounds like everything is going smooth to me.

  21. #21

    Originally Posted by Akirasan


    Well since the story is tip top, look at other threads about SE's struggle to get more scenario writers. Why is FFXIV "Three years" after the post production release, still not functioning correctly? Sounds like everything is going smooth to me.




    How is going smooth?

  22. #22
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    I have monitored these boards for a very long time and I'm honestly a bit disappointed at most of the posts I read. I don't understand where all this hate comes from on Square and Final Fantasy. There is a lot of animosity on these boards towards them and I don't think it's justified. In my opinion since each game has a separate world, save direct sequels, it's not fair to compare them to each other. I have a few thoughts on series that I would share:


    I have played Final Fantasy games since the beginning and I think they are all great games. Each has something great about it and I take in the experience for what they are rather than base them on previous games in the series. In my opinion it's just that people don't like change, which i can understand. I think it's very brave of Square to keep stepping outside of the box and, to me at least, create such amazing games.


    1. It's of course natural for different people to like one battle/ability/equipment system over another, but that doesn't mean the others are instantly bad. There is not a single Final Fantasy game that has a poorly designed or majorly bugged system.


    2. Every single game has well defined characters and fantastic story telling, which in my opinion is the true highlight of Final Fantasy games.

    Ex: Final Fantasy XIII easily had some of the best story telling to date, yet people ignore it and bash on it for being "railed". The whole point of the game was to show a direct story where they were running for their lives. Then finally when they decided to step up and fight destiny the game opened up to more exploration in Gran Pulse. I think this really brilliantly showed the difference between normal people of Cocoon and Heroes of the game.

    3. Final Fantasy VII is not the best and end all of RPGs. People focus all their attention on this game and while I agree it's a great game I don't think it's the best RPG ever. In fact I think it's impossible to categorize games as the best or worst because each experience should be separate and it's totally based on opinion.

    4. Square has changed over the years and each game is generally designed by different people and teams. As such I think it's even harder to compare games 1 for 1.

    Feel free to share your thoughts and if you disagree please by all means argue your points. I just ask that this be a Constructive Discussion and not just a bunch of Trolls flaming on everyone and everything posted. I know some certain frequent posters who do this all the time in almost every thread. There is no need to act like a 5 year old so please treat others and their opinions with respect.

  23. #23

    Sure, you're right.


    We don't have to criticize, but give constuctive evaluations.

  24. #24

    I think it has to do with how square manages announcements, they announced versus xiii years ago and after that nothing, if you are not ready to release something in the foreseeable time why would you even bother to hype the community, it makes no sense and a very bad pr move.


    Also some of the hate I've seen toward squareenix has to do with localizations, they developed 2 good games (type-0 and bravery default), yet there has been no announcements to localize them, I mean a huge game like type-0 that brought a world map back deserves a west release yet in every interview they are asked about it they come up with a very vague response, its outrageous in my point of view.


    Now about the ff games I don't think change is bad but it has to be made carefully, squareenix has a huge fanbase around final fantasy and you really don't want to dissapoint them, specially since I've seen plenty of people who now sees a squareenix game and refuses to buy it just to make a point.


    Hopefully Wada leaving will be a good thing for squareenix and will go back to what made them great, although I think its great they managed to release some non-rpg titles like tomb raider and sleeping dogs.

  25. #25

    Originally Posted by SREPCfg


    Sure, you're right.


    We don't have to criticize, but give constuctive evaluations.

    Which is called constructive criticism.

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