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Thread: Why Rise hurt Shadow.

  1. #1

    Why Rise hurt Shadow.

    Rise to me was a perfect 10 of a game.

    Flawless in every way from NPC's, to story, environments, drama, even the dlc.

    When Karen O belts out "I Shall Rise" and the credits roll every time I finish a play through I get chills up my spine.

    That game set the bar so exceedingly high for any game to follow that certainly it would fail in comparison, which is
    no knock on Shadow. Rise caught lightning in a bottle. Shadow should not have been expected to do the same.

    Games like Rise come along maybe a few times in a decade, and when they do we expect other games to reach that
    level of greatness, and they just can't. It was a perfect storm of creativity.

    Shadow is a great game however you look at it. It's just not Rise... and that's ok.

  2. #2
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    i am glad it is not like rise. at least this felt more like a tomb raider than shoot raider. while shadow has its flaws, it still gets a solid 8/10 from me.
    rise a 4/10.
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  3. #3
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    ^So true, Metal!

    For me, Shadow is miles better than both Rise and TR13. Even with its flaws (and most of them stem from inherited issues of the Reboot), it finally felt closer to a true Tomb Raider experience. I honestly would really love to see what Eidos Montreal could do with a TR game free from the shackles of the Reboot.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    i am glad it is not like rise. at least this felt more like a tomb raider than shoot raider. while shadow has its flaws, it still gets a solid 8/10 from me.
    rise a 4/10.
    While I agree it's the best of the reboot trilogy on Tombs, it's also an example of the "be careful what you wish for" syndrome if in responding to the past titles you only complained about tombs.

    What it comes down to is balance, no TR is good if it only has good tombs, or good combat, or good story, etc. While Shadow DOES have at least some good battles, too many of them are far too scripted, and unfortunately it's the bigger ones.

    I thought it was pathetic you are lead to believe in a cutscene prior to the final battle that Lara would provide backup via sniping like she did to protect Uranatu earlier. Worse yet you have all the zombie-like creatures doing much of the work for you. In earlier battles a gunship flies in and it's check the explosive barrels boxes until the battle just suddenly ends.

    Now granted Shadow does have some fairly decent stealth battles, especially against Trinity, but even there they tossed in a Berserker element as if to say, "This is your best option because you will likely blow stealth with the crappy way we've designed these areas".

    There is clearly TONS of stuff to explore and scavenge in the game, but as many have said, this one is ridiculous in how much backtracking you have to do once you get the one needed tool you need, and they literally make back tracking a real pain. Often times you even have to wear a specific outfit to get into an area, yet you are very limited to what outfits you have to wear unless you waste resources crafting them.

    Furthermore, the graphics actually look worse than Rise, probably because they had to dumb them down a bit for the tired old engine to be able to handle the immensity of the game world. Even still, you're going to get a hitch at certain points in the game.

    Shadow could have been really great, but it feels rushed in it's concepts, and unpolished in it's optimization. Optimization should be as much about smoothness of gameplay as it is about frames per second.
    Last edited by Frag_Maniac; 21st Feb 2019 at 00:54.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frag_Maniac View Post
    While I agree it's the best of the reboot trilogy on Tombs, it's also an example of the "be careful what you wish for" syndrome if in responding to the past titles you only complained about tombs.

    What it comes down to is balance, no TR is good if it only has good tombs, or good combat, or good story, etc. While Shadow DOES have at least some good battles, too many of them are far too scripted, and unfortunately it's the bigger ones.

    I thought it was pathetic you are lead to believe in a cutscene prior to the final battle that Lara would provide backup via sniping like she did to protect Uranatu earlier. Worse yet you have all the zombie-like creatures doing much of the work for you. In earlier battles a gunship flies in and it's check the explosive barrels boxes until the battle just suddenly ends.

    Now granted Shadow does have some fairly decent stealth battles, especially against Trinity, but even there they tossed in a Berserker element as if to say, "This is your best option because you will likely blow stealth with the crappy way we've designed these areas".

    There is clearly TONS of stuff to explore and scavenge in the game, but as many have said, this one is ridiculous in how much backtracking you have to do once you get the one needed tool you need, and they literally make back tracking a real pain. Often times you even have to wear a specific outfit to get into an area, yet you are very limited to what outfits you have to wear unless you waste resources crafting them.

    Furthermore, the graphics actually look worse than Rise, probably because they had to dumb them down a bit for the tired old engine to be able to handle the immensity of the game world. Even still, you're going to get a hitch at certain points in the game.

    Shadow could have been really great, but it feels rushed in it's concepts, and unpolished in it's optimization. Optimization should be as much about smoothness of gameplay as it is about frames per second.
    backtracking never felt like a pain for me. after all, it was the same as in the previous ones. i actually want to get back to unlock the area i could not explore before just to reach 100%. since you can fast travel, i saw this as no hindrance.

    but i do agree that the outfit limitation was disappointing. i mean, johna never had to dress up like them but lara for some reason had to. while im not against the costume, there were moments i want to wear the outfit i wore earlier or even a different one.
    while for the mission to get dressed as one of the priests, made perfect sense to me.

    to me shadow looks amazing and i never had a single issue since day 1. everything set to max and i wish rise would have looked as colourful and more life like as in shadow. instead, rise had to look boring, dull and grey. i had to force my self to keep playing.
    i did read however on steam forum that people who had problems, are the ones with nvidia cards.

    i expected shadow to be bad, if not even worse than rise, but i was surprised how much fun i had. the exploration, the amazing looking tombs, the jungle and its vistas, the fair amount of combat, the story at least was interesting enough while i pretty much forgot what rise was all about. lara still looks great and was more interesting than she ever was in rise.
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  6. #6
    There are PLENTY of examples in Shadow where back tracking is so messy with trial and error attempts to find your way back to something. It's a game that has a labyrinth of underground passages. One I recall was that spot where you had to figure out a puzzle to unlock pathways for oil to spill so you can light it and burn some sticks that blocked the way. Fine when you're on that quest, not so good if backtracking. In backtracking you find the sticks respawned, yet the oil jars are no longer there. It's bad enough they would for some reason reblock a pathway you already cleared, even worse they respawn the blockage, but not the resources needed to clear it.

    This is just one of many examples. The main reason it took me weeks to finish my first play through is I got sick of wasting time backtracking only to have to find another way to access what I was looking for. Many times I ended up putting the game aside to play something else a few days out of frustration. That's why I played it only about 2 times a week at the most. This is also why there's so many YT guides on how to find collectibles you missed, and even many comments on some of them saying. "OK, fine, you showed my where it is, now show me how to get to it."

    The ironic thing is, I loved the tombs, I tend to enjoy ones with more challenge. It just seems a bit odd though they made navigation through the map in backtracking to get things you missed actually harder than the tombs themselves.

    On graphics it's pretty washed out unless you crank the color warmth up quite a bit. Thankfully I have a display I can do that easily with remote. In some respects the graphics are glitchy though. I've seen a lot of texture, light and shadow flickers that Rise didn't have, and in some places, the walls will even look less distinct in backtracking than they did the first time through. I think it's called Serpents Belly where I was trying to retrace through the big pit area where you have to jump to a wall with a ledge. I played my first run on Hardcore with no ledge highlighting, yet I could faintly see it the first time through. In backtracking I could not see it at all, it literally looked like a muddy wall. It wasn't until I turned the brightness up on my display and watched a guide to confirm I was trying to go the right way that I realized the ledge was higher up and required a double wall jump. The video as well clearly showed a ledge, even though he was playing with no highlighting. Things like that can make an already long game session ridiculously cumbersome to the point of tedium.

    This game just felt rushed, as if they tried to cram more into it than they had time to develop it with polish. I also doubt it's the case that AMD GPUs are better supported than Nvidia, especially since it's an Nvidia endorsed game with RTX support in the works. Drivers will likely improve regarding RTX support, but I doubt there's much more they can do for non RTX GPUs. Plus Nvidia are generally better than AMD at consulting with the devs closely on games they endorse. AMD has often tried to say they reached out to the devs but didn't get the help they needed, but I've seen enough devs say that AMD are not present enough to get the proper consultation they need, to know otherwise.

    I've also read those using 1080 Ti cards don't experience the massive hitch in certain key spots in the game, as it does on 1080s and lower. When it happens consistently in certain spots, it's usually a sign the game is not loading assets well. Same was true of Bioshock Infinite. The 1080 Ti has quite a bit more VRAM, but if a game needs that kind of thing, it's a sign of poor optimization, especially when the card you're playing on is easily averaging more than 60 FPS.
    Last edited by Frag_Maniac; 24th Feb 2019 at 23:04.

  7. #7
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    i never had any of these problems with the graphics. everything is sharp and no glitches or anything weird with walls occurred.
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