Thread: FMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results (Part 4)

FMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results (Part 4)

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    2,704
    Congratulations, Vanguard, on your ghost of Rogues honor. It certainly was a tough mission to ghost. After a little while and failing in a few places, I ended up BJing 48. I got 3025 of 2900 possible loot, or so it says. There is a funny deal about buying stuff with your loot, and I guess I bought less stuff. I noticed that you didn't mention the church. Check it out.


  2. #52
    Holy mohly, now that's a ton of crate stacking. Actually I did mention getting into the church:<blockquote>- I wanted the rope arrow to get into the church. Get atop the roofs; easiest is to head to street by the shop and mantle up onto the sloped roof. Get atop the starfield rooftop (where the rest of the roof is red). Jump over to the church wall and rope up to the bell tower. ... I did find a "secret" in the fireplace in the reading room. ...</blockquote>My way looks to be easier since the only risky part is jumping from the higher roof onto the church wall. To get back out of the church and down from the wall, I jumped from the church wall onto the ledge across and then crouched, slid a tad off the side of the ledge to lower myself a tad, and in the corner faced the cornering wall to slow myself just enough to not incur any damage on the fall. Just crouching and sliding off the ledge would incur damage.

    I figure I didn't find anything in the church basement or behind the fireplace secret because the author had started there but decided to develop the FM outside of that building and didn't finish it here. There's a scroll inside honoring the beta testers and mentioned Lytha (probably she made it in here first during beta testing). I did find 10 water arrows inside that were worth 500 if purchased so they compensated for the 250 that was spent on the rope arrow that I had to leave behind stuck in the bell tower eave.

    Hey, my endgame mission stats say there was only 1125 max loot in the game. Your max says 2900. I GOT ROBBED! Since there was no loot objective, I came back to the house after collecting a lot of loot and bought a whole bunch of water arrows and moss arrows to help me inside the house to ghost to the library. My other choice was to get a bunch of crates that would block Brian on his run to relight my doused torches so he would get stuck running indefinitely into the crates and never get to those torches.

    Maybe in T3 the endgame stats will indicate how many reloads were needed to complete the mission. In this case, that stat would be very poor (i.e., very high) for this mission.

  3. #53

    Ties Bind

    FM Title: The Ties That Bind
    Game: Thief 2 - TMA
    Ghost: Failure!!!
    Perfect: Failure!!!
    Time/Loot/Secrets etc: Not kept due to failure

    Comments:
    - Failure results from a game script. A safe with wine in it in behind a banner in the Keeper building. You must slash the banner to get the safe. The safe is only teleported behind the banner when the banner is destroyed, so there is no hope for frobbing through it.
    - Perfect isn't possible because 1) It's impossible to do the ghost 2) There is gold behind some boards, but they must be slashed to get past 3) Again, the safe is impossible to get to and contains money 4) If you enter one house you must torch a doll to escape (scripted) and there is money in the house.
    - Without the property damage rule, this FM would be very ghostable. It's not a bad FM and very good I think, considering the small amount of area it takes up.

  4. #54

    A Brawl in the Tombs

    FM: A Brawl in the Tombs
    File: brawlinthetombs.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (success - forced end of mission)
    Loot: 5045 of 5420 (4500 required)
    Time: 1 hr 40 min
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0

    Comments:
    - Pretty the same as Deadfall's ghost report.
    - The melee between the thieves and zombies took place when I wasn't even around. There were zombie parts scattered about and the thieves were on alert. They even wandered into the large tiled room with a pylon and were swiping at the zombies on the floor (that never awake).
    - In the Mechanist HQ is a floor throw switch. If you flip it, a melee breaks out. It is not necessary to continue the mission by flipping this switch; i.e., the switch is unnecessary. Since Garrett flipping this switch causes the melee, it is a ghost bust - so don't flip the switch.
    - I had to turn the game gamma all the way up for this FM. It's dark.
    - I probably spent half an hour trying to find the exit. I kept focusing on the ceiling grate in the back of the Hammerite temple but there is no way to open it. I read Deadfall's ghost report and the exit is back in the Thieve's Guild. Okay, got there, but I have no yellow key. I have the gray key. In the secret passage into the Mechanist's HQ is a body of a thief. Next to his body are 2 keys, a gray one and a yellow one. I picked up both. I went back to check and the yellow key was not back there. For some reason, the yellow key disappeared from my inventory so there is no way to exit. So I went to the exit door and hit Ctrl-Alt-Shift-End to end the mission.

    When I got done ghosting, I just had to go back and start the melees. They are a blast to watch. I would then lure more zombies and haunts to the archers with the holied water arrows or to the thieves and watch them get diced, sliced, and smoked. It can get a bit jerky when 20+ AIs are embroiled in a battle.

    <hr>

    <u>Garrett-triggered melee may constitute a ghost bust</u>

    Depending on how the ghost rules might be interpreted or changed, there might be a possible ghost bust forced by the game. When you grab the sword, a large door opens and there is a melee between Mechanists, Hammerites, haunts, ghosts, and zombies. Since taking the sword is an overt action and the melee does not occur unless you take the sword, this is like a switch that Garrett has frobbed for an objective. FMs can have ghost-violating objectives (because it is not required that FMs be designed for ghosting).

    However, if you read the scroll inside the cavern behind the big door, the Mechanists got trapped in there due to a collapse of dirt and are working to get out through the big door. In this case, the Garrett-triggered switch that started the melee is really just the author's way of giving you a show. It would've been more appropriate to have a boundary trigger near the top of the stepped pyramid to set off the melee.

    Garrett frobbing the sword (like a switch) and starting the melee is a ghost bust. But it also appears this was a simplistic means by the author to start the melee instead of using a boundary trigger which would not be a ghost bust. Depends on how you look at it.

  5. #55

    The Keep (version 2)

    FM: The Keep (version 2)
    File: keepv2.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (success)
    Time: 1 hr 24 min
    Loot: 2233 of 2753 (2000 required)
    Pockets picked: 4 of 5
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 6 (required)
    Damage dealt: 6 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0

    Comments:
    -- An objective says to take out the henchmen around the keep by any means possible. Blackjacking works to checkoff the objective.
    -- A guard was stuck walking in place in the alley by the restaurant/bar inside the compound. I used the wood catwalk above him to get by him and then roped up to the catwalk to come back.
    -- Nudged a servant in the big kitchen (near the front drawgate) so I could frob the gold wine bottle on the table and the loot goblets and bottles in recesses in the fireplace.
    -- When you enter Rameriz's room, he is hardwired to start talking to you. I gassed him before he finished talking. An objective says to kill him. I tossed him down his secret shaft to kill him silently and "accidentally". It took 3 drops before he died.
    -- Getting by the ghostly zombies is tough because you don't know which ones are real. I followed the leftside of the passage, doused the torches at the bottom, and ran down into the darkness without even a 1st alert.
    -- Open the large metal inner doors after you enter the keep has a guard come out on alert and hunt for you. This seems hardwired. Since he is one of the henchmen that I am supposed to get rid of, and since he was alone, I blackjacked him.

    This version 2 of this FM is recently released. I didn't notice any differences from version 1 (which I played a long time ago).

  6. #56

    Garrett's Nightmare

    FM: Garrett's Nightmare

    Ghost - Failed
    Perfect Thief - N/A
    Time - 00:56:11
    Loot - 0/0
    Pockets Picked - 2/3
    Backstabs - 1 Knockouts - 18
    Damage dealt - 374 Damage taken - 13
    Healing taken - 4 Kills - 19
    Secrets Found - 3/0

    Causes of Failure:

    - Cannot sneak by idle guard facing the spider cave more than once.
    - Cannot sneak by any of the frogbeasts from the ice tunnel.
    - Cannot sneak by the spiders in the upper caves.
    - You must break glass in order to get a key which is needed to escape. Breaking the glass also alerts the Haunt.
    - Cannot sneak by any of the zombies infront of the Mechanist room.
    - Cannot sneak by Mechanist priest and combat bots in the Mechanist room.

    Comments - Well... I had a definate feeling that I wouldn't be able to ghost this after reading the author's notes. This mission has only one difficulty and one objective, and it was designed as a "kill or be killed" survival mission. I still tried to ghost this mission anyway and I was surprised I got as far as I did.

    I started off well. I was able to sneak by some very difficult areas with AI that were placed to be alerted and engaged. Eventually ghosting this got ridiculous and it was totally lost when property damage and alerts were unavoidable. But I am unusually satisfied with my failure because I was able to ghost all the way up to the frogbeasts. Also: The secrets reported 3/0 found. This is obviously a bug, and I don't know if there are any other secrets because of this.

    The first area of difficulty I came across was right after comming out of the "Hall of Victims". There is an idle guard staring at a door that you need to get through and too many factors were against me; the electric light behind him brightened the area, he did not pivot, and it was not feasible to try and nudge him anywhere, so I had to use an invis potion. What I found out later, is that I need to come back to this area and there was only one invis potion found in the mission. So alerting him was inevitable. When I did use the invis potion, I didnt want to waste it so I ran passed the spiders and the into the apebeast ice cave.

    Getting by the apebeasts proved difficult. I used a tactic that I never tried before, and I don't even know if it's allowed in the ghost rules. I didn't know that you could fire a broadhead into mushrooms and then destroy it as if you "frobbed" it. Shooting a broadhead was the only way I could produce darkness and sneak by the apebeasts. I don't think this would be property damage, but I can't be certain. In one tunnel, I had to resort to head on nudging for one of the apebeasts. I was able to crouch and creep right infront of his knee-caps and push him to the side so I could get by.

    After going down the ice tunnel, I came across a huge batch of frogbeasts. These frogbeasts are not "allied" with Garrett, and I could not sneak by the one on the right against the wall. This was the only area that I had a chance of sneaking through but I tried everything. I tried CCCing, mossing and jumping, and using the slowfall potion, but none of these worked. I decided to take the other route, which is a secret passageway to the upper spider caves. A guard around this area has a key needed to open one of the doors, but the only way to get back down was to use the hole planted in the center of the spider cave. There were about 10 or so big green spiders positioned around the hole, and the room was way too bright to even attempt sneaking. I had also used my invis potion so I had nothing to do but try another way. I thought I could stack my holy water vials and perhaps jump up back into the ice tunnel near the frogbeasts, but I was only successful once and I had to use a flare stacking trick. However, for some reason, the apebeasts at the other end of the ice tunnel had completely rotated and I could not sneak by them. I had no other options now except to go on a rampage. I killed all of the spiders, the frogbeasts, and knocked out most of the apebeasts.

    After returning to the previous area, however, a new batch of guards were spawned and started patrolling around each room. A guard even spawned in the exact place where the previous idle guard was. I ended up luring all of these guards into the darkened spider area and then I knocked them out one by one.

    The black key from the guard near the upper spider caves unlocked the door with a haunt and a glass barrier which needed to be broken in order to get another key. Breaking the glass alerted the Haunt who was only a few inches away from the glass, so I backstabbed him to prevent the alert. The button behind the statue on the left removes a secret panel revealing the blue key, but after hitting the button, the center of the metal floor slides away and you fall into a room where you become trapped with a dozen haunts. I used a rope arrow on the beams above the metal floor so I could press the button, get the key, and jump back through the broken glass.

    After this, however, a whole new set of AI were spawned. There were some translucent haunts and zombies patrolling around the rooms now and it took alot of waiting to finally sneak by. It was time to get out of here, so I went back to the frogbeast room and tried opening the door and to my surprise there were zombies clogged up in the hallway. There is no way to sneak by them so I cleared them out with a rain of holy water arrows. The next room was even worse because after opening the door, I stood face to face with a mechanist priest who immediately went on alert. If I doused the torches beside me, he may not have spotted me, but either way, it is impossible to sneak by him. The room behind the mechanist priest consists of two patrolling combat bots, and one idle mechanist priest at the other door. I used fire arrows to get rid of the combat bots and I knocked out the mechanist priests because it was impossible to sneak through this room. This was the last area I would come through because the blue key opened the locked door and after exiting to a garden, I was transported back to my "room" and the mission ended.

  7. #57

    In Search of Leon

    FM: In Search of Leon

    Ghost - Success
    Perfect Thief - Success (Chemical)
    Time - 01:49:02
    Loot - 6471/6471
    Pockets Picked - 8/10
    Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
    Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
    Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
    Secrets Found - 0/0

    Comments - This is the 5th mission from Christine's FM saga and this was the easiest one out of all her missions. I only used 1 water arrow in the entire mission and that was so I could get a few loose coins on a window sill. I also didn't need to use any moss arrows.

    The guard in the sparring room was constantly attacking one of the dummies and getting too close to him would put him on 3rd alert. I wanted to get the silver coin stack in the chest so I watched him and made sure his back was turned. Sometimes his peripheral vision would just catch me and he would start charging, but it took some slow sneaking to finally lean forward and loot the chest while he remained clueless, attacking the dummy.

    The main hall has 3 patrolling guards and 2 patrolling servants and the only way to sneak through without being seen or heard is by hugging the wall and moving slowly. The wall had a few spots where you can take advantage of medium shadow. But the wall also had very bright spots since the torches on the columns were pretty close. The upper floor of this area had another set of 3 patrolling guards, but the floor had carpet sections so all this area took was timing.

    The magical book (objective) was found in the library. An unlit frobbable torch opened the bookshelf wall panel behind the couch and inside there was a patrolling fire elemental that circled around the book. I always got a first alert when I tried to mantle up into the secret area; jumping didn't work. Getting the book took all of about 10 seconds. The floor around the book was marble, but the entire room was dark and the fire elemental's patrol wasn't fast enough to be a problem.

    Other Notes:

    -The Prison Tract key was on the floor by one of the curtains in the pool room.
    -I had to nudge Sir Hrothgar just a little bit forward so I could get the gold wine bottle behind the curtain infront of him.
    -The missed pocket is actually a purse on a dead thief in one of the jail cells.
    -Leon was found unconscious on a torture rack in one of the jail cells.

    Loot was the primary objective for me, but I found loot with ease. I had recently played all of Christine's FM's one after the other and I was able to observe alot of similarities with each mission. I knew that she liked to place loot on window sills, behind curtains, and under bushes. I knew that she liked to put big "treasure" rooms in her mission that contains alot of loot. I also knew that alot of strange looking wine bottles and other "junk" items counted as loot.

    Hard to find loot:
    -Gold nugget under bush on the right side of the double doors in the courtyard.
    -Loose coins on the window sill in the tower with the staircase leading to the castle wall.
    -Loose coins on the window sill next to the guard in the octagonal room that connects to the main hall.
    -Amulet on top of wine shelf in the pub room (use vine arrow to retrieve).
    -Gold plates on the wine shelf in the pub room that are easy to miss unless you right click everywhere.
    -Ring on window sill in the lounge/music room.
    -Gold goblet on the ground next to the chair in the dining room.
    -Ring on window sill next to the sleeping lady in the green dress.
    -Gold wine bottle behind curtain infront of Sir Hrothgar in the library.

    I needed to douse the candle on the window sill next to the guard so I could sneak infront of him and get the coins. I could have nudged him, but using a water arrow was obviously easier.

    The room with the female noble and the guard on the upper level of the castle contained 2 candlesticks, but I couldn't sneak inside and get them without using the only invis potion in the mission. Dousing the candles put the noble on 2nd alert and I could not sneak in due to the brightness. I finished looting the rest of the castle and came back to this area to see what else I could do. But in the end, I just had to use an invis potion.

    The Secret Areas (not counted as secrets):
    -Secret "treasure" room is in Sir Hrothgar's (I guess) room behind the couch next to the fireplace. Highlight the red/black book on the bookshelf in the adjacent room.
    -Secret shrine room with loot is in the storage room. Flip the switch behind the lamp.
    -Secret equipment room is next to the sparring room. Frob the target to open the door.

    Before I was about to carry Leon back to the start of the mission, I explored a little more and found that in the sparring room there was a frobbable target that opened the unhighlightable door in the other room. There were tons of moss/water/fire/gas arrows and other equipment in this room, and I found it just after I had finished going through the mission. It doesn't really matter though, because there was no need to use moss or water arrows.

    Other than finding loot, the mission had no difficult areas and was easily ghostable.

  8. #58

    In Search of Leon

    FM: In Search of Leon
    File: in_search_of_leon.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (success)
    Time: 1 hr 11 min
    Loot: 6421 of 6471 (4000 required)
    Pockets picked: 8 of 10
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 0 of 0

    Comments:
    -- Deadfall got done ghosting this one before me. While he spared as much as his inventory as possible, I used it whenever it made ghosting easier, like dousing the torches in the main hall and in the practice sparring room, and mossing the floors around the magic book and into the 2nd floor room with the lady and guard.
    -- I couldn't find the last 50 in loot.
    -- I had to use the inviso potion to get into a 2nd floor room with a lady and guard. I couldn't get in unspotted otherwise. I also mossed the tile floor at the door to eliminate a bad jump through the door from the hallway carpet runner and room carpet and back out.
    -- I mossed the tile floor around the book and the stairs so I could easily just tail the fire elemental while snatching the book and get out.
    -- The actual pickpocket max is 9. I could only find 8 liftable items from the AIs. Either I missed one or the author forgot that the purse on the corpse in the jail cell would never get counted; the game engine won't count items lifted from corpses or unconscious bodies.

  9. #59

    Gheldorf's Towne House

    FM: Gheldorf's Towne House
    File: gheldorf.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (success)
    Time: 1 hr 2 min
    Loot: 2123 of 2223 (2100 required)
    Pockets picked: 6 of 11
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 3 of 3

    Comments:
    -- After getting inside, there are a couple sleeping rooms on the 1st floor. The bunks for the servants quarters were more than wide enough apart to normally walk between them but the boundary was screwed up so you got blocked. I used a moss arrow so I could jump onto or over the bunk beds to get at and pick open the chests.
    -- I doused 2 torches in the kitchen to be unseen by the rotating kitchen servant. He wasn't rotating when I was first in the kitchen so he could not be nudged (he doesn't shuffle his feet). I couldn't get past him to frob the switch to open the secret behind the bookcase next to the fireplace. I lugged a crate from the guards' sleeping quarters so I could get high enough to lean and frob the switch. You have to position the crate halfway beyond the front of the fireplace so there is room behind it for the bookcase to swing open.
    -- I then had to lug the crate into the dining room. Two of the loot wall plates were too high to reach and I didn't want to be jumping and making noise to frob them.
    -- Getting past the guard at the office door proved almost impossible. He is in the corner of the room by the office door and is angled to face into the center of the room so you cannot sneak up to him from either side without him spotting you. Good thing I did a quicksave here. I figured that I would use rope arrows to get atop a bookshelf and see if I could sneak over him and drop behind him. Unfortunately, the rope arrows simply disappear if you shoot them into the bookshelves. They will work, however, in the wood walls. Once inside the office, you'll notice the secret wall panel but finding the switch is very difficult. I searched everywhere for a long time. Turns out if you get too close to the corner bookcase then the button does not light up; you have to back away and look down to see underneath and by its rear foot for the button.
    -- I could not find the last 100 of loot. I was under the 2100 loot requirement. I had missed the mask in the upstairs bedroom and the coins behind the angel statue on the 1st floor. That got me over the loot objective.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    2,704
    FM: In Search of Leon

    Ghost - Success
    Perfect Thief - Success
    Time - 03:25:54
    Loot - 6471/6471
    Pockets Picked - 8/10
    Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
    Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
    Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
    Secrets Found - 0/0

    Comments

    I never check Ghost reports before playing. I didn't realize this one was so polular.

    This is a slightly better result than reported previously by Deadfall. I did not require the use of an invisio potion to get the candlesticks from the noble and the lady. The first time I tried to put out a candle the lady didn't alert, but I blew the ghost in another way because I didn't have enough water. On reload, the lady alerted when I dowsed a candle. Knowing it was possible, I just kept trying and eventually after about 10 tries I had another success. I think the key could be a long wait to remove an unapparent first level alert caused by opening the door. It seems to work better when the lady hums and the guard mutters.

    I had a slight disadvantage when playing this room. I had already used all but two of my water arrows, and three were needed to get the candle sticks with complete safety. I dowsed the candle on the left and did a very slow CCC into the left corner, avoiding an alert even though my visibility gem was yellow. Once in the corner I dowsed the fireplace, and that did it.

    Later I got two more water arrows in the kitchen sink without alerting the maid, but they were not needed at that point.

    I spent twice as long as necessary in this mission owing to the hunt for tricky loot in ghost mode, with no side trips. As is usual, this was my first playing of the mission.

    I agree with Deadfall. The last pocket must be a mis-accounting of the purse on the dead prisoner, which of course doesn't register in the pocket stats. No other AI have anything on them. In fact, that purse was my last piece of loot. I had found it before but lost it in a reload, and I found it again only when I retraced all my steps.

  11. #61

    Iron Man

    FM: Iron Man

    Ghost - Success
    Perfect Thief - Success
    Time - 02:21:24
    Loot - 10194/10194
    Pockets Picked - 1/2
    Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
    Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
    Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
    Secrets Found - 5/5

    Comments - This new mission is the sequel to "Best Defense".

    There was only one very difficult area that took mere chance and luck to beat in this mission. And it is only to get all of the loot; it is not required.

    There were a few possible entrances that could be used to get inside of the huge mansion; even the front door, but I decided to take the back way by using the secret panel by the graveyard which lead me to a garden with a few apebeasts. One apebeast was standing by the pool and I think he had seen better days. He had no head, no arms, no legs; only a torso, so it looked like he was just a floating stomache. He could still see/hear however, so I don't know how to explain that.

    Since I had no intention of using moss to help speed my way through, I had to creep for a very long time on the metal floor in the basement. I was glad to have found that there was a way to turn off all of the lights though, and once this was done, I could lean into the side rooms and turn off the lights. I needed to do this to get loot in a chest.

    The mech bot by the wheelbarrels and crates seemed to have a longer sight range than normal. He was far enough away that I could sneak behind the idle hammerite and not be seen, but for some reason this particular mech bot saw me every time. So I had to resort to using 2 water arrows to douse the torches next to the hammerite.

    Getting the keys in the barracks was a little tricky even though I had a few choices; douse the torch, nudge the hammerite, or mantle the bed. I chose the hardest one and mantled the bunk bed. I had some experience before on how to drop down from bunk beds without making a loud jump sound, so all I did was aim for the closest chest and then dropped down on the edge so I would be hitting neither the floor, nor the top lid of the chest. There is also a little switch inbetween the two beds on the right that opens a secret panel to an equipment room by the lift. I had to nudge the female servant in the servants quarter in order to get the nuggets in the secret panel on the side of the fireplace.

    Sneaking by the idle hammerite in the music/living room required a different method than what I thought to be best. The room was well lit and I needed to get to the light switches behind the frame of the double door. I would have to hug the left wall and make a circle around the room. I tried sneaking slowly, but the hammerite spotted me every time. The unusual method I used, was simply running to the corner with a bright yellow gem. The method yields only a 1st alert from the hammerite, and it seems im either moving too fast for him to spot me, or an object blocks his view. I was also able to run by the fireplace with a first alert too. From here I fired a moss arrow at the light switch on the far right next to the double door and this turned off all 4 lamps in the room. There are 2 switches, however, and the switch on the far left is not the one that needs to be hit. If the switch is pressed, another set of lamps will be turned on and that is obviously unwanted.

    To get the masks on the walls and the loot on the dining room table, I simply watched the servant's movements and used some quick sneaking (creeping while standing). The mask on the wall by the kitchen took a slightly different tactic. I needed to walk slowly against the wall while the servant was heading back to the kitchen. Then I had to crouch and wait for him to come back out, then snatched the mask and remained crouched while the servant walked towards the kitchen again. Then I crept up almost to the edge of the kitchen door, waited for the servant to enter the dining room, and then I crept into the kitchen.

    At the back of one of the storage cellars, there's a lift that goes down to a storage basement. In one of the adjacent rooms there is a pile of crates against a wall. I am always scrounging like a rat for loot so I looked under the crates, and to my surprise removing the crates revealed a hidden passage. In this area there was some loot and an interesting song about "butter beans."

    The upper floor eased down in difficulty a bit because the ubiquitious marble floors were gone and I could sneak quickly again. The 2 hammerites guarding the door to the vault must be nudged if you want to sneak by without dousing any torches. Through this guarded door was the vault and a patrolling hammerite. None of the keys I had, or my lockpicks would open this door, so I thought I would find the key later on. I went up stairs and came upon a large ball room. It was time for some creeping on marble again, and it was also time for a very difficult area that requires pure speed and dexterity. To get the loot behind the bar counter with the patrolling servant, I had to mantle up onto the counter and then drop down near the ladder. To get the gold wine bottles on the upper shelf I had to climb to the top and remain in brightness while the servant makes his way back and forth with only a 1st alert. When the servant goes around the corner of the shelf, I would climb down and get the wine bottles and then climb back up and wait again. There was no loot or any thing of worth on the other side of the shelf.

    And now the very difficult part. After leaving the bar area and creeping along the walls, I came to a game room with 3 hammerites and nobles. The room was bright and the light switches were by the frame of the entryway on the left. The problem with getting into the room was that the female noble and one of the hammerites was facing the entryway and there just didn't seem to be a way to sneak in. The coin stacks, jeweled cups, and wine bottles beckoned, however, and I felt the need to get in here. The first thing I did was moss the floor by the entryway. I tried sneaking slowly and I tried different leaning to see if I could press one of the light switches, but I just wasn't close enough. And if I wanted to be close enough, I would have to alert one of the AI's. The ultimate method I used required alot of speed and I failed dozens of times. I simply tried running through the door frame and then attempted to lean to the right and hit the light switch. The time it took to run and lean without alerting the noble made this part seem impossible; but it's not. I learned to improve my attempts after many reloads and found that if I run towards the surface of the door frame on the left, lean to the right and hit the left switch, the 2 lights facing the entryway would turn off and I would be in shadow while standing in the door frame. I knew what needed to be done, but the real challenge was executing all of this fast enough. It takes some quick leaning and mouse clicking, but once I was successful, I gave a sigh of relief, continued turning off the other lights, and then grabbed everything in the room that wasn't bolted down.

    The hardest section of the mission is dealt with now. But for me, it was a little different because I had completely missed a very significant part of the basement. I realized this because I had explored every room of the mansion, yet I still didn't have a key for the vault. I tried thinking about where I had been and thought maybe there was a switch that opened the vault door. But the vault door was highlightable, so there had to be a key. And then I thought of the metal floored basement and the switch I flipped beside the other levers and switches that turned off the watchers and lights. I remembered reading one of the signs that mentioned opening a gate in the sewer. I never knew what hitting the switch did, so out of curiosity, I went all the way back down and found that the switch opens the metal gate in the sewer. Beyond this gate there was a flooded room, and a strange prison area with levers located in each cell. The button on the altar opened the gates of the levers and switching some of the levels would spawn some zombies. I started from the cells on the left and the lever in the 3rd cell from the left makes the vault key appear on the altar. Getting out took some effort. I noticed that the tunnel to the prison area now had a locked gate and I flipped all of the levers and nothing happened except more zombie spawns. I thought maybe the levers have to be flipped in a certain sequence, but actually the lever in the first cell on the right has to be switched twice and then the gate in the tunnel will open.

    How inconvenient that I missed this area... But at least I found what I needed. I went all the way back to the vault and got the horn and the loot and I exited the mansion by going through the front door. I doused both torches and just barely noticed that there were some loose coins in the fountain and this was the last 100 loot I needed.

  12. #62

    Iron Man

    FM: Iron Man
    File: ironman.zip

    Time: 1 hr 41 min
    Loot: 9919 of 10194 (8500 required)
    Pockets picked: 1 of 2 (all)
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 5 of 5

    Comments:
    - There is a secret wall panel next to the elevator outside the door to the barracks. It took a long time to find the switch. I missed it repeatedly. It's in the barracks room.
    - I had troubles trying to get the money box next to the apebeasts in the secret courtyard/pool area. Dousing their fire alerted the one closest to the pool. I found that I had to be a long ways away, almost across the pool, to douse the fire without causing an alert.
    - It took a long time to find the vault key. When I entered the waterway from the pool in the secret courtyard, I went into the basement and then into the house. I had not traversed to the end of the waterway which is where you find the vault key. After a long search outside and inside the house, I remembered seeing that waterway went further than the opening into the basement and decided to check it out.
    - I nudged the guard forward in the barracks to get at the keys.
    - In the upper basement level, I nudged both Hammerites forward in the room with the switches to disable the watcher (so I could get close enough to the throw levers to frob them).
    - Nudged the guard in the Great Room so I could sneak past him by the double doors and get to the darker side of the room and to the light switch.
    - Could not get into the upstairs gambling room. I would get well lit when approaching and entering the doorway. A gal close to the door would alert if I became too well lit regardless of how slowly I moved. The light switches were too far around the corner to reach; when I would lean in to reach the switches, the gal would alert. Had to skip 345 in loot in there.
    - Between what I found in the outside front garden and elsewhere, I had something like 35 or more moss arrows. It's possible to sneak around without using them. I did that in the basement figuring I wanted to keep as many as possible for later. But eventually it made it much easier to use them, like mossing up the safe and jumping into it behind the guard when he paused and faced sideways. I also found moss handy in the front wishing fountain. I doused the torches so I was hidden but the splash noise still alerted the outside front door guards. Although the moss doesn't disperse when shot into the water, it gives me another level on which to step and go more slowly into the water. I was then able to frob the coins from the fountain.
    - On returning to the front and outside, I happened to get close enough to the scarecrow that it lit up. I frobbed it and a secret panel opened. Inside were some fire arrows and a journal that mentioned the vault key (i.e., the portcullis and switch). Gee, would've saved me a lot of time if I had found this at the start.
    - On a sub-basement guard (with the metal floor) is a "private key". Never found what this was for, or maybe its door is pickable and I already picked it open.
    - There is a suburst bomb behind the powder kegs in the basement (near the big mech bots). Don't know what you would need this for.
    - In the secret courtyard w/pool is a folded up apebeast. It doesn't move but it will alert to your presence. I don't know if this was a design defect or to be humorous by showing an apebeast with its head up its arse.
    - I did a blackjack run through the mission and still didn't find the last 275 in loot. I gave up scrounging for it.

  13. #63

    Ravencourt's Mansion

    FM: Ravencourt's Mansion
    File: ravenc1eng.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (forced failure)
    Time: 31 minutes
    Loot: 1186 of 1286 (1100 required)
    Pockets picked: 2 of 3 (all)
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 2 (1 required)
    Damage dealt: 2 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 0 of 0

    Cause(s) of failure:
    - You have to bash open a wood door.
    - When you open the door to the museum or art room, you get a new objective to save Lady Ravencourt. She is getting kung fu'd to death by a guy. You have to stop him before he kills her. The least damaging means of stopping him is to blackjack him. However, according to the new proposed ghost rules, the objective doesn't explicitly exempt you from blackjacks so this might be a forced bust to satisfy this objective.

    Comments:
    - You MUST get version 1.4 of this FM; see the FM's description when opened in Darkloader to check the version. The author originally intended that you blow open a metal door using a sunburst bomb (which would've been another ghost bust) but never got it working. He later added a key to open this door.
    - The only level of difficulty is Easy.
    - When you frob the chest down one floor from where you start, a guard gets spawned in the same room. Although I was totally hidden in the shadows, I could not manage to sneak around the room to get out the door. Since I have to bash this door open with the sword (which is a ghost bust), the guard would alert. If I bash open the door before frobbing the chest so the guard didn't exist yet, on frobbing the chest the guard would get spawned but now be already fully alerted. So I had to skip the 100 in loot in the chest and eliminate spawning the guard. The ghost bust from bashing the door open was already bad enough.
    - Upstairs there is a courtyard. When you pick open the door (there is no key), one of the archers patrolling in the hallway on the other side will alert when close to the door. So pick it when you lean into the door and hear them go through the far door. You also have to open and shut the door when they are at the far end of the hallway.
    - You have to carefully slide onto the elevator going up to the top floor. Otherwise, you will hop instead of walk from the floor when you get onto the elevator platform and make a loud clang that is heard through the stone floor and alerts the guard down one floor in the storeroom behind the kitchen.
    - When you open the door into the museum or art room, you get a new objective to save Lady Ravencourt. She is under attack. Even with the hallway door closed, the guard patrolling out there will hear her wails of pain, so wait until he is at the far end of his hallway, open the museum door, dash in, and immediately close that door so the guard hears nothing. You can sneak up in the shadows behind the guy attacking the lady and blackjack him while remaining unseen and unheard. However, although the objective says to save the lady, it doesn't explicitly exempt you from the no-blackjack rule, so this is probably another ghost bust.
    - You have to rope up to the upper level in this room to get the diamond and some more loot.
    - I had to blackjack Rosie in the kitchen so I could tote her out to the mansion entrance, an objective. I actually came into the kitchen from the hallway through the dining room rather than through the back storeroom. I couldn't get into the kitchen using the storeroom because the guard would spot me. There is a light switch in the kitchen to make it dark. The light starts on, frobbing the light switch doesn't do anything, and frobbing it a second time turns off the light. The switch was probably initialized in the off position although the light was on. I don't recall any other defects than this one (once the door was fixed to use a key instead of trying to blast it open which didn't work).

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    2,704

    A brawl in the tombs

    FM: A Brawl in the Tombs

    Ghost - Success (old rules).
    Perfect Thief - Success
    Failure with new rules.
    Time - 03:58:41
    Loot - 5420/5420
    Pockets Picked - 8/9 (all)
    Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
    Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
    Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
    Secrets Found - 0/0
    Bodies discovered - 5 (must've been someone else's work)
    Comsumables - only water arrows, no potions.

    Comments - Deadfall and Vanguard have already covered this ghosting well, so I will report only small differences.

    It's a huge mission and dark, so it's easy to miss things the first time through it. I missed some loot because I didn't feel like taking the time this evening to hunt for it. Maybe I'll go back in this weekend. There are an awful lot of empty sarcophagi, and I think I looked in all of them.

    Edit: I went back in and found the remaining loot. I feel really stupid. It took me three hours of clock time (one hour of game time) to cover the entire map again, only to find that the wine cabinet in the hammers drilling area had two doors, and I had failed to see the top one light up. Three wine bottles in the upper cabinet did it. I also found the last pocket - an arrow on an archer at the chapel entrance courtyard.

    While looking for the loot I discovered the Keepers area and the tribute to Master Nightwalker. I thought I had frobbed all those gates before, but I guess not. Must be slipping....

    I got the pickpockets in the torch areas by extinguishing all the torches (no alerts). The guards were extremely sensitive to water arrow noise, so that took a long time, many reloads, and some experimentation. In some cases it was shooting location - shoot below the torch to the side of the structure away from the AI. Or technique: don't pull back on the bow all the way. Lob it in there with a high arc. Sometimes it was the order - shoot the far ones first, and the change of light will not bother them so much.

    I did not notice the pocket I missed. I don't think it is on a dead AI, unless it is one of the two keys in the tunnel leading to the mechanist complex. There are some goosey guards outside the chapel that I avoided. Maybe on one of those. [Edit - yes it was!]

    As has been noted, the start of a melee by taking the sword is a bust under the new rules. It cannot be avoided because the sword is an objective, but the melee is not an explicit objective.

    As for the five bodies discovered by enemies, I did not do it (zero damage). There were two unavoidable melees. One was when taking the sword (an objective), and the second occurred when some Thief reinforcements came (unbeknownst to me) and did some serious whacking on some undead. Later, after their work, the thieves lined up nicely on sentry duty with their lanterns, which helped me to find my way back to the thief headquarters and the ending. Nice touch.

    I thought this mission was very entertaining. Good scenery, great sound effects. I like the deep voices talking-backward, or whatever they did. Headphones make a difference there. The melee scenes were great. I thought the one in the drill tunnel was the best. I went down the tunnel and checked it out up close. How else could I get the gold teeth out of the bodies? Not ghosting then, of course.

  15. #65

    Sir Stefan Geheimnis (The Secret of Sir Stefan)

    FM: Sir Stefan Geheimnis (The Secret of Sir Stefan)
    File: sir_stephan.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (failed - due to long delay in AI reaction)
    Time: 1 hr 48 min
    Loot: 6510 of 6727 (5000 required)
    Pockets picked: 8 of 9 (all)
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 0 of 0

    Cause(s) of failure:
    - I doused a torch in the pub. It takes 54 seconds (almost a minute) before either the blackguard or female kungfu guard react. I had already done a quicksave after about 15 seconds passed and, and normal for me, I was only using the quicksave to recover. This is not because the patrolling servant gal triggers to the doused torch. It takes a minute before one of the AIs inside the pub react to a doused torch. Some torches can be doused, but a couple will eventually set off one or more AIs after a long delay.

    Comments:
    - Nudged a gent forward in the book shop to get a gem vase on an inside window shelf that was beside him.
    - An interesting and possible typo was on a letter in a house that said, "... my dear son-in-law. I don't understand why he wants to marry my beloved grandson." Hmmm.... Considering the period in which Thief is set, I didn't think they allowed boy-boy marriages back then.
    - To douse the torch alongside the open end of the bar, I had to move across the outside walkway to maximize my distance from the blackguard so he would not alert when I doused that torch. I still got busted after a long delay when I doused a torch on the far wall (see above for cause of failure).
    - Finding where to use the "key to the server" took a very, very long time. Eventually I found that the water gate does not illuminate to indicate it is frobbable (using the key); the change in contrast is nearly imperceptible. Also, you cannot be close to the gate. You have to back away from the gate to use the key. This leads to Sir Stefan's hideout, and means everyone that enters gets wet.
    - Had to nudge a guard forward in a guards' barrack room so I could get close enough to use lockpicks to open a wood chest.
    - Nudged the guard in Sir Stefan's room sideways into the bedroom and forward past the doorway so he could not see me enter the secret passage leading to his pets.
    - I was out of water and gas arrows and so had nothing more to douse torches. I mossed up a hallway and nudge the guard forward and away from the wall in a half darkened hallway to get past him and into the dining room to get the loot in there. This took many tries due to a patrolling servant that would alert if he got too close although the light gem was completely black.
    - Getting back into the water to exit the hideout proved difficult. The splash noise on entering the water would alert the guard standing there at the dock. I managed to get back onto the ladder and then moved down and into the water and jumped off the ladder after I was already below the surface to eliminate the splash noise.

  16. #66

    Winternacht (A Winter's Night)

    FM: Winternacht (A Winter's Night)
    File: winternacht.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (success)
    Time: 36 minutes
    Loot: 4179 of 5692 (4000 required)
    Pockets picked: 7 of 9 (8 total)
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 0 of 0

    Comments:
    - Nudge a guy that was upstairs next to a fireplace so he couldn't see me (beyond a 1st alert) going into his bedroom door to the side and in front of him. Also nudged his kitchen servant gal forward towards the counter to reach a gold plate (and also get water arrows in her sink).
    - There is 813 in loot, maybe more, in the pub. However, opening the door alerts 2 AIs: a barmaid runs out for help and the kungfu guard gal and maybe a blackguard go on full alert. Had to skip the loot in there, including the purse on the kungfu gal (and why I was 1 short on the pickpocket stat).
    - I used a crate, the only one in the mission, to get up onto the balcony on the backside of the pub. I only had 3954 in loot and needed 4000 for the loot objective. This got me over 4000, plus I had missed a gold wine bottle under a 1st floor table in the house at the start that has the weapons cache.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    2,704
    FM: The Secret of Sir Stefan

    Ghost - Success
    Time - 03:17:44
    Loot - 6512/6727
    Pockets Picked - 8/9 (all)
    Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
    Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
    Healing taken - 0, Kills - 0
    Secrets Found - 0/0 (there were some)
    Comsumables - lots of water arrows and moss. Two gas arrows to extinguish torches.

    Comments - Vanguard in his post above describes some trouble spots. I was not aware of these because I like to play a mission with no prior knowledge. Given enough time and effort, I managed to circumvent all of the problems he mentioned.

    For a start, I did not have to nudge any AI. I don't know what to say other than I used careful sneaking and leaning. There are quite a few places where you can go with a green visibility gem and not be seen.

    The main thrust of this mission is wise use of water and gas arrows for extinguishing torches and careful technique in shooting them.

    The first trouble spot was the pub. To get the loot there it is necessary to extinguish most of the torches. The AI are very goosy, and they often alert when a torch is put out. As Vanguard mentioned, sometimes the reactions occur a long time after the event. It took me many reloads, trying different approaches, to do it, but eventually I managed to put out all the torches I needed to without an alert. As above in Brawl in the Tombs, it was a question of optimal order, shooting technique, shooting location (on structure below torch and to one side), and some luck. I dowsed them in this order: far wall right torch, far wall center, far right corner, doorway, lamp on bar. I left the one on the left wall lit. I hopped onto the bar where I snatched the loot, but it was also possible to go around.

    From there, it was fairly routine exploring and ghosting until I got to Stefan's hiding place. I was not confused by the gate. I had frobbed and clicked it before, and it was the only frobbable item left unlocked when I got the blue key, so I went straight for the gate. True, it does not unlock when you are close to it. That set me back a notch, I will admit, but I hit it again from another angle and it opened. I never take one bad mouse click as a "no." I click all around on the off-chance I have missed something.

    Once inside Stephan's hiding place, the lower floor was routine, but then upstairs there were some well-lit marble floors, so the going got a little sticky in that area. However, with plenty of moss and water arrows, I made short work of it (or so I thought). When I finally found the burrick place, I had two gas arrows and two water arrows left for extinguising torches, more than enough, one would think. Wrong! There are eight torches in the burrick room, and I found it necessary to put out six of them to get the goodies, which I could not do at that point. Busted!

    So I went back to a saved game on entry to the hiding place, and this time around I was very careful not to use water unnecessarily. This meant, for example, sneaking through the first rotunda room with one of two torches still lit (the one on the side of the guards' path). I put out the two torches in the T passage, where it is necessary to stop and rest, skipped the left corridor for the time being (in which I had previously used two water arrows), went down the right passage with only the far torch put out, and avoided puting out the fire in Stephan's room. With that, I arrived at the Burrick room with eight water + gas arrows and left there with all the goodies, burricks none the wiser, and two arrows to spare.

    On return from the burricks area into the marble halls, I found, with my new attitude about water conservation, that I could loot the remainder of the rooms without dowsing any more torches. So I finished the mission with two arrows to spare rather than two arrows short.

    That's it. I am short 215 loot. Maybe I will go back for it sometime, but that is all I can do this evening.

  18. #68

    Re: The Keep (version 2)

    Originally posted by Vanguard
    FM: The Keep (version 2)
    File: keepv2.zip

    Comments:
    -- An objective says to take out the henchmen around the keep by any means possible. Blackjacking works to checkoff the objective.

    this is different from version 1. before you had to Kill them.

    -- A guard was stuck walking in place in the alley by the restaurant/bar inside the compound. I used the wood catwalk above him to get by him and then roped up to the catwalk to come back.
    -- Nudged a servant in the big kitchen (near the front drawgate) so I could frob the gold wine bottle on the table and the loot goblets and bottles in recesses in the fireplace.
    -- When you enter Rameriz's room, he is hardwired to start talking to you. I gassed him before he finished talking. An objective says to kill him. I tossed him down his secret shaft to kill him silently and "accidentally". It took 3 drops before he died.
    -- Getting by the ghostly zombies is tough because you don't know which ones are real. I followed the leftside of the passage, doused the torches at the bottom, and ran down into the darkness without even a 1st alert.
    -- Open the large metal inner doors after you enter the keep has a guard come out on alert and hunt for you. This seems hardwired. Since he is one of the henchmen that I am supposed to get rid of, and since he was alone, I blackjacked him.

    This version 2 of this FM is recently released. I didn't notice any differences from version 1 (which I played a long time ago).
    Other differences are..
    1.A few more AIs placed.
    2.The started area -docks was rebuilt to no longer look like outside.
    3.You can now exit the lower keep section to get back and BJ/Kill the henchman if you forgot.
    4.The "U Win" at the end no longer lights up.
    5.Moved the placement of the Passed out Ai with the weapons room key.
    6.Added a bit more decoration to the streets.
    7.Removed the building on the way to town.
    8.Added a map of the city.(With locations marked)
    9.Raised the ceiling hieght of the map to allow for more roaming on the roof tops.
    10.Fixed some high polycount areas.


    Overall I think there are quite a few changes. Perhaps you need to spend more time playing the map and enjoying the setting, instead of trying to ghost everything.
    I know that sounds harsh. Just meant it as a suggestion to your playing style.
    The Miracle of Modern Pharmaceuticals.
    Gotta love them.

  19. #69
    apache, why did you remove the lit u win? just curious, i thought that was cool. anyway ill have to d/l this one sometime and play again, too busy right now but someday...as it is in my opinion a very great map(and i saw the movie too!) i think it a very good idea that you made it so that you could go back and get all the henchmen. i played the old version and didnt have a hard time understanding which ones were the henchmen but i can see how some people might have been confused on it.

  20. #70
    Originally posted by amievil?
    apache, why did you remove the lit u win? just curious, i thought that was cool.
    Thought it was a bit corny..

  21. #71
    I only refer to the map, if there is one, usually as a last resort when I can't find some place or after I get irrevocably lost. I'd rather discover along the way and investigate in the order that I happen to encounter them and to explore out-of-order than use a map as a guideline. Besides, after playing lots of FMs, the lack of a map is so pervasive to FMs that I often don't even check to see if there is one until I get stuck or get lost. I rarely used maps even in the OMs which always had one. Relying on a map as a guide, to me, is somewhat counterproductive to the fun of exploration, especially since I try to investigate every nook and cranny of an FM. I'll even dive off a cliff knowing that I'll die just so I can see what it looks like all the way down.

    In our family, there is a standing joke about being adventurous. I'll head off through some unknown part of town without any clue as to what is over there, no maps, and no idea if we'll get to our destination, get lost, or end up backtracking and taking a known route. Sometimes after a short distance the others will suggest that we head back and go the "right" way, and then I'll query, "Hey, what happened to being adventurous?" When I take road trips and get asked where I'm going, I'll pick a direction and say, "That way". When asked what's over that way, I say, "Don't know. I'll find out when I get there. That's the adventure."

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    2,704
    I think Apache meant playing the mission, aka map, aka level, not looking at the mission's map. Of course, I could be wrong.

    And, now that I am also guilty, let me remind you (us) that the purpose of this thread is to report ghost results and to make comments on same.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    2,704

    A Winter's Night

    FM: Winternacht (A Winter's Night)
    File: winternacht.zip

    Play mode: Perfect Thief (success)
    Time: 2:08:36
    Loot: 5692 of 5692
    Pockets picked: 8 of 9 (all)
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
    Killed: 0
    Secrets: 0 of 0

    Comments:

    Vanguard reported several ghosting problems in this mission, all of which I managed to circumvent with enough time and effort (my two hours vs. his 36 minutes). My main problems were finding all the loot and getting the loot on the balcony of the pub without an alert.

    My first problem was ghosting the Jeweler's house because, in my first time through it, I did not notice the light switch in the main room. That was easily solved. Anyway, the tension in there no doubt made me overlook what turned out to be my last loot: three coins worth 60 in the storage room. It took me a long time to find those.

    The main ghosting problem of the mission was the bar, as Vanguard pointed out. On my first approach to the entance, I opened the door OK, but I had trouble extinguishing the lights. Later, on a reload, I suddenly became unable to open the front door without alerting the bar maid, as Vanguard reported. However, if at first you don't succeed, then fiddle about! My secret to opening the door was to stand near it so it didn't swing very far. Then I closed it, moved back, and opened it farther. Repeat three times, and it was all the way open without a peep. I have noticed that sometimes a gradual approach like this avoids an alert. Anyway, being super quiet with the door, in turn, made it easier to put out the lights. Evidently a hightened state of first level alert can be caused by opening the door, and this can trigger a 2nd alert when the lights are extinguished.

    So, I looted the first floor of the bar with no problem after that. The next problem occurred going up stairs to the balcony. I could moss the stairs and sneak-dash through a lit-up spot to get out OK, then close the door, and walk around on the balcony with no problem. There was a line on the balcony floor, however, that I could not get past so I could not reach the loot. No matter how careful I was, using moss, etc., all the AI below triggered when I crossed the line. Perhaps if I waited up there for 10-15 minutes it would not have occurred, but I doubt it. The line acted like a proximity trigger.

    Then I went on a crate hunt, hoping to build a stack to get up the back side of the balcony, to avoid crossing that line. I found only one crate, which was not nearly enough height for me to jump or mantle up. The ledge seemed about 15 feet up. Vanguard reported using one crate. I guess I must be shorter than Vanguard. Once again, a little fiddling. I reached into my inventory for all the stackable items I had. First the crate, then two potions, then two pieces of purple fruit. That got me up a couple of more feet, but still not high enough. Apples don't work. They lift you up a little, but then they bounce all around when you jump on them. Finally I got lucky with a piece of cheese. The drop jump with the cheese put me over the rail, even though the cheese ultimately fell down off the stack. See below.



    I did the same move in Tymoteusz the other day with a crumpled piece of paper. Catching it with a jump in mid air can put you over. But it is not repeatable.

    That did the job. The rest was routine.

    No nudging was required anywhere. I just got into good position and leaned. I was not able to get the water arrows from the kitchen maid, and that almost put me in a bind. I got four water arrows, used one foolishly, and used my last three in the pub.

  24. #74
    Posted January 2, 2003 at TTLG Forums (My Temporary Ghost Sucess stories file)
    AT http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...threadid=62922

    Mission Title: A Winter's Night
    (Night, not Eve, remember that)
    Game: Thief 2 - TMA
    Ghost: Success!
    Prefect: Failed
    Time: 1 hour 8 minutes 15 seconds (althogh 3 times as much of trial and error)
    Loot: {5283 OR 5397} /5692 *SEE COMMENTS*
    Pick Pockets: 7/9 (7/8 PP bug)
    KOs/Kills/Damage: 0

    Commets:
    -Okay, depending on how you look on a chemical success (use of potions), I have different loot scores. WITH an Inviso Potion in th bar, I have 5397 in loot. WITHOUT the Inviso Potion, I had to skip even more loot, and ended with 5283.
    -The first two houses were easy compared to the rest of the level. It was just a little room dodging.
    -The Jeweler's was VERY hard. I did more CCC ing (creeping) than I've ever had to do. I would have prefered more moss arrows. First, you have to hug the wall to slip past the gaurd in front. Then use 2 moss arrows to moss the display room, and 2 water arrows to douse 2 out of 3 torches. After gathering all the loot (which takes some time in between gaurd rounds), you have to CCC to the doors and into a dark corner by the office in the hall. Then wait for the gaurd to pass, then CCC in and out of the office after looting it. The moss the hall. Open the doors to the main room. Wait for the lady and gaurd to face away, then run on the moss and jump through the door to the carpet in the room. Run to the light switch, run on the carpet, jump though the door, and jump onto the moss and hide in the corner. Wait for the gaurd to make his rounds, then jump in the room and douse the torch. Run across the carpet, and then CCC like mad past the curtains under the stairs. CCC to the coins and back to the curtain. Wait for the gaurd. CCC into the room and hide in a corner. Wait for rounds. Grab the loot and CCC out to the curtains. Rounds. CCC to carpet, dodge the lady and gaurd while on rounds. CCC close to the downstairs room the lady enters. Wait for lady to leave and CCC in. Grab the loot and CCC out. Wait for rounds. CCC to carpet and jump and hide in the hall. Now for the trick part. Wait for the gaurd to enter the display room this time. Jump into the main room, then RUN to the stairs (if you time it right, you won't hit the marble and you won't be heard). Now, crouch and crawl up the stairs JUST barely hanging on the edge. Wait for the lady to exit the room above and pass you (I didn't even get a first alert). Run up the stairs to the room she exited, in the door, grab the loot and out again. Hide at the top of the stairs in the corner. Wait for the gaurd to go down the stairs. Then run to the last room, in the door, and close it. Get the diamond, run out to the corner and hide. Go down the stairs the way you came up, but halfway down, fall onto the table with the gold candle. Take it. Then fall off the table. Then CCC to the carpet, and jump to the hall to hide. Then go out the way you came in.
    -The bar was hard too. The bartenderess was touchy about the door. I fixed that by double clicking the door (opening and shutting it fast). Then it was normal for some reason the next time I opened it. The thiefy lady was touchy about the torch I was dousing in the first room. If you aim on the wall beside it or in the corner, she doesn't hear it as well (it's juuuuuuust out of her room brush). Then a lot of rushing to behind the stairs by the touch (and over the back door for a fast exit). The jumping on the stairs (that was hard). Then creeping over the stairs. Then a TON of crouch-walking and leaning to get ALL the loot near the bar. Then run back to the door. All this took a lot of waiting because of all the first alerts. I had to wait for them to calm down every time. Then I could take the inviso potion, run to the kitchen, grab loot, and hid in the corner nearest the bar door to hide from the thief man. Then run out to the front door (to hide). Wait for 1st alerts to go away. Then run up the stairs out back. Grab loot, jump over the back wall and you're HOME FREE!!!
    -I was worried about the army of guards partolling the streets, but I was just able to grab the pouches without any alerts. I expected them to make round trips on their patrols but it seems they only walk when you are near them.

  25. #75

    Island of Iron, part 1: Fortress of Steel

    FM: Island of Iron, part 1 - Fortress of Steel
    File: islandpt1fos.zip

    Play mode: Ghost (failed - required objective sets off alarm)
    Time: 28 minutes
    Loot: 1255 of 1405 (1000 required)
    Pickpockets: 0 of 12 (who had anything to lift?)
    Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
    Kills: 0

    Cause(s) of failure:
    - An objective says to do something in the control room to disable the outside defenses. You have to throw a beacon lever but that sets off an alarm.
    <small>This is like the Undercover FM. The alarm was okay under old rules but not under the new ghost rules.</small>

    Comments:
    - When I got done ghosting and played in normal style, the fire bomb seemed to do nothing (on the mechs). Found out later that the swirl of embers has the same effect as a bug cloud (on humans).
    - On the 2nd floor and near where you find Friend Kevin's diary (goes into inventory, you cannot drop it, but it is not an objective) is a guard in the hallway. Nudged her to the side so I could pass her to get the diary and some loot in a chest by another guy standing at a desk.
    - If you open the door to the medical lab, a melee ensues between the zombies inside and the hallway guards. So don't open that door. There's nothing in the medical lab, anyway.
    - There is another armory across from the medical lab but there are way too many guards huddled together there (and I needed the single inviso potion for elsewhere).
    - Some more guards are added after throwing the lever in the control room but they don't add much more difficulty. I used the inviso potion to run out of the control room, down a shaft, and to the first floor where none of the guards were on alert. It was pretty easy then to just go back down to the basement to get back to the boat and end the game.
    - In the basement, more guards were added and one had a lantern. Didn't have any more inviso potions. Crouched and downed a speed potion to dash around the lit corner with just a first alert from 2 guards.

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