Thread: How To Fix Nosgoth

How To Fix Nosgoth

  1. #1

    How To Fix Nosgoth

    - Hand it over to a team that isn't absorbed by some other pet project so they can hear everyone's feedback and actually maintain the game.

    - Make it pay-to-play w/ all cosmetic and chest items (minus the chests) relegated to a fairly priced in-game store for further profit. Throw in DLC-pack-style bundles of stuff, even.

    - Actually advertise it. Literally just advertise it at all.

    - Quit trying to force it to be some big "e-sports" thing. How much cash was funneled into leagues while basic functionality fell apart?


    All of this seems like really obvious stuff. Am I just crazy?

    Also, how to fix the Legacy of Kain: Give the property away because SE is too bloody afraid to do anything with it. You've poured money into TWO GAMES now, SE, and cancelled both before either was really released. Gee, I WONDER WHY YOU LOST MONEY ON THIS PROPERTY! Never mind that one studio actively hated the property and the other bailed to work on a project where they weren't forced into lousy decisions. Maybe hand it to a studio that can respect the property, let them do what's best and, hey, maybe let a game actually be released so it can make money.

    It's like if I funded the building of two houses, outsourced all the work to people who weren't into it, quit on both jobs then wondered how I lost money on the venture.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 13th Apr 2016 at 03:37.
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  2. #2
    All of those are actually obvious and reasonable ideas to maintain a much bigger player-base. Everyone is suggesting this since ages.

    What I find worrying is that no one at Square Enix thought of those obvious things. Makes me wonder if they really wanted the game to succeed or not...

  3. #3
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  4. #4
    I agree to spend money on what I want and not spend it to get luck with chests. if there was something i do not spend Money, was chests and keys. this was really lame. Cosmetic abilities and weapons shoould follow the same way, just removing pathetic level up to get them.... for a simbolic price anyone will buy those that interests for us. cosmetic items without any properties... if we want to add.... then we have forge.... so simple..... no one there as thinking on so easy this could be....
    Last edited by netmota; 13th Apr 2016 at 21:55.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by netmota
    just removing pathetic level up to get them
    The only things that required leveling up were the evolved skins (and human equivalent) and that makes perfect sense...

    Anybody from SE out there, taking notes? Learning some basically competent stuff, heaven forbid?
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    The only things that required leveling up were the evolved skins (and human equivalent) and that makes perfect sense...
    I believe he meant, Remove the 30,000 exp gain you need to unlock on cosmetic effect's, For mysterious equipment. whilst suggesting that they be paid for, via rune stone's to get the final effect, while the game is still in development. To add support for it's funding.
    If it continue's development that is.

    And i totally agree with the primary comment. Of this forum page.
    So here my thought's to go with it.

    This feel's rather unacceptable, Especially after wasting all my time expressing idea's, To Noted & Implemented Suggestion's, Posted on version two, Of the forum. Post #112. For the last two week's. And then on top of that sorting all the rough draft's of my text for free. Those suggestion's are gold. I tell you, If not platinum!
    Any ways i never understood if that was the correct place to post feedback idea's, Or if i should have made a separate forum like this one I'm posting in.
    Just being humbly hilarious about the pay factor, I don't want money for my ideal's. I do how ever want them to be acknowledged It would only add insult to injury. To put the game on the shelf to never be played. Sure in the future you could pick it up. But not as the game it is now it would have to be recreated. Although we know that's not going to happen either, The way society works with business patent's, Ideals go obsolete because of patent's. Before the idea can be updated, Or improved in a relevant time.
    Of course people should still get credit for there idea's though. I'm Not voting for a system of chaos here.
    Just trying to appeal to the Communion Aspect of society. But I know, Better then to hope, As money is the drive of society right now rather then Art, Intellect, And prosperity. You know the thing's belief usually preaches about, And also try's to get every one else to preach about, While trying to make people realize Sin is a nature. We are suppose to overcome, Rather then be enveloped by. In other word's, As a serious joke. I say shove the sloth, you darn sinner's!
    This game's potential is far greater then what the player base has expressed so far.
    Most of the people I've seen complain, are ranting about players like my self being to good, Also making the mistake of thinking I'm a cheater using Aim Bot or what ever hack i can buy, With the money I don't have. Then they of course quit before giving the game a full chance.
    What i mean to make apparent though. Is the fact that Nosgoth had very little advertisement going out. In my opinion. So in the end when your player base, Is about player's that can't adapt fast enough. To the current community, That's already been playing the game for a significant time more. Then the game becomes an unattractive failure.
    To fix this, I suggest. Remove class restriction's on what ever classes that require it. Since player's can only play, A single class at a time. Why should it matter what class they begin with? (rhetorical)
    And the problem here is that failure happens within 2-5 years, For all multiplayer's, That become finished, Or begin to stagnate. And trust me. I've played games through the entirety of my life, I've also tested ample multiplayer style's, Many with the same concepts as Nosgoth. For near the same time, Or longer. I usually stick with a multiplayer. If I like it enough, Until the game goes dead, Or get's boring.
    So when said failure time for all multiplayer's is 2-5 year's, It doesn't matter if the game is in beta or not, While not attracting enough players. And when you don't update the content enough to subside the current player's boredom. While not fixing bug's that are driving away new player's. We who are playing, Tend to get bored fast. Without new competition/challenge's
    Anyways we cant learn fast enough when we join game's late after their release date, Due to the already large amount of active expert players smashing on the tiny community of newbies left, Or potentially new player's. But that's how it's suppose to go.
    their suppose to catch up to the experienced player's, Not the other way around. But i do admit, It's to much suffering. To join a game that already has a lot of active experts in play, And above skilled player's. While at the same time. Not having enough of you're own player level base, To level with. So you can at least begin. Studying the game mechanics.

    So the player base remain's stagnate, due to the unattractive amount of new player's. That the newbies desire, So they can learn without getting taken advantage of so often, By the expert an above player base. Leaving them to learn at there pace own pace without getting aggravated into quitting as much.
    An it shouldn't matter if a few expert player's are in a lobby of new player's. Since it will only encourage them to get better. An it's especially unfair to separate people by skill, For example. If i log on to play, I want to get the fastest match possible. So i can learn fast as possible. Also most experienced player's don't player as often as newbie's will. Since there just starting out and all. But that wont happen while there's this system judging me as to good to play with this group of newbies.
    Another example would be, When the community become's stagnate. While there is a judging system being implemented.
    It can suddenly become's unfair, Or hindering. To the newbie's, Since they now take the fall. Due to the fact that they will have to wait longer just to get there practice in, Since this system of judgment is taking more time to place them in a bracket of there level base. When they could be learning how to play ASAP. Instead of getting handicapped along.
    I mean who's idea was it to bring handicap's to a competition, It's called a challenge for a reason. The reason being, Each side is equally matched. And this is what i want. Because this is where real strategies are built. In the face of challenge.
    But players move on, when these thing's take to long to change. Every one move's on, And goes with the flow. In gaming. The flow of life that is. Which is all way's fleeting. Like time, It self.
    So the moment a game begins to decay, Or become's more stress then fun. We usually move on bringing are friend's with us.
    In other words the game didn't need a balancing system, Many game developer's have tried the formula before, An none have succeeded, With it.
    And here are my thought's as to why it will never succeed.
    Reason one, A player's skill can't be determined for a set time. Numbers will never truly show the player's value. Because we are constantly learning. The numbers we grade by will simply never catch up. There fore we cannot label are skill that way. Since it will never serve as a proper balancing system for match making, especially when you're numbers can go down, That is most illogical, Are skills do not degrade, While we keep in practice. And continue learning. This is just another example of one of the many flaws. That numbering are skills will cause imbalance on a far greater level, Then players individual experience ever could or would.
    Reason two, If players are never challenged to get better how will the game ever be fully played/exploited, By the players intellect and skill, Which is the purpose of all game's, Alongside the purpose of fun.
    But when you ignore major bug fixes, That needed to be attended to, There is nothing more crippling to a game then Glitches, Or bug's of the alike. As these destroy competitive play, Just as much as cheater's abusing overpowered content, And childish hacker's that abuse there ability's to physically troll/expose the negative aspect's of the electronic world.

    Any way's i forgot to explain the point of bringing up every video games multiplayer death date.
    Right now nosgoth is dead, It's simply true. Especially after posting the recent new's on the game page in bold red. So early with out even keeping the community updated in advance, Like this is the biggest surprise I've ever had playing a game, And boy does it take the cake. Of all other surprises i will ever have in my future gaming history, I doubt ill ever pick up another beta due to this new fact I've learned about them. Why not keep the community updated before hand. Rather then leaving them in the dust. About the decision to do a 180 degree turn in the opposite direction.
    This is great significance to the community, That put their soul into this game. Even though we're still told nothing in advance, And only have the nature of despair to fulfill us, After hope.

    Now it's time to establish why you should continue this game.
    One there is great feedback from the community, In expressing the need for bug fixes, ideas for balancing the game, And general suggestion ext. I recently started making suggestion's myself, that i put much time into.
    Two the game might seem to be at its end right now, But it has just barley begun. it's been about 1-2 year's since the content has really changed. In bug fixes, And new content. Making the progress look very slow. This is probably why many where detoured from Nosgoth, Especially because of the lack of bug fixes. But this alone should show you, How long content lasts. That's around 1-2 year of fun off unfinished beta content alone. It could be 2-3 years if the game is ever given a real chance to become popular. And of course that's just speculation, About when the popularity begin's to die. As in, Usually a popular game lasts 2-3 year's till that game's community start's to die. But the game will obviously last longer, say 4-5 before it starts getting to old. To play. Then the rest of the community fall's, Like most game's do.
    Three i have just finished the Beastmaster class. Fully leveling it, And gaining all the achievements. An I do have to say its a perfect class. In every way this class belongs in the game, But of course there are still a few suggestion's for it, that i would like to be acknowledged. And other's, That I hope don't go to waste, Or that i would like to add my idea's to. Due to this final decision. To end Nosgoth. Seem's benign. Without concern for the player's interest, Or hard work contributing to this game, A thank's is hardly sufficient. With a sudden notice to just quit every thing, This is not what the human society stand's for, Despair, anguish, And futility. Or at least i hope its not. Also lack of acknowledgment to the fact that bug reports where needed for the game. That many player's where kind enough to put there time into, Just to make this game successful. This is something the development team should have a team put together to do.

    Also for your own sake, You should as of immediately stop shoveling out money to people playing a beta for competitive money. To do this I suggest you change the money earned to rune stones, Like many others have already suggested. (Only if you're going to proceed with nosgoth's creation). Money doesn't make competition or a challenge, the interest of expressing experience does. And the interest to learning more, While getting better in those experience's already attained, And not your sinful nature to attain greed. There is a time to gamble, And a time to observe.
    I feel the whole nosgoths team took one to many gambles working on irrelevant content, such as boasting, working on one too many skin selection's at a time, Along with prize reward/reward systems, Receiving more attention. Then the need for bug fixes. And other thing's, Like patching disasters that brought many more unresolved, And staking bug issues. Isn't there a better way to apply a system patch, Rather then by forcing the community to deal with all the unforeseen kink's, And wait for their report's. That are obviously going send a lot of hate mail, Pointing each one out problem.

    Here's my suggestion to make it fair for all player's, There should be a rating system. But it should be a rating system of title's not numbers. Titles ranging your experience from least to greatest, Example ranging from beginner to expert and above. Novice, Apprentice, expert, master, legend. Five should be more then plenty, And this is not to separate any one.
    This is to build a base line of fair, My concept is to basically not let the title's label people, Instead it's just to define their skill.
    What this title's should do, Anytime. Two players get together with the same title, Their placed on opposing team's to balance the match/lobby. Unless On a team. An of course if there is an opposing team with the same or near the same rating they will be placed on the other team to balanced the situation. Obviously there is much more it should do. That I hope you can assume with the already given info. Although i have no problem explaining! If I need to.
    To add to this idea If there are Team's of 3 or greater. then these team's should look for other team lobby's as well as. a regular lobby to join, But the top priority should be to find another team of course. When you have that many player's on your team.

    An it's beyond sad that art stops with the flow of money, Weather the money be flowing not enough, Or too much. Its no wonder we're all trying to build, Or submerge are self's in an illusion that society doesn't suck the way it works now. Since none of use can express the very art, Are soul desires to, In these current life style's/time's. And even if we did we would probably only live a sin full life style. With that kind of money. As to why art also stop's with too much money.
    So i ask you Psyonix, Square Enix beat the tyranny of sin! And don't let the game end. Just because it may not make you enough money at the time. If it's not forcing you to loss money then proceed with this grand multiplayer. Please!
    I know these are just the word's of a fan. But i believe the game can be made stable, To bring back it's community and much more.
    I beg you, Please continue your work.
    I have many more idea's to express for Nosgoth.
    Last edited by GamerMuffins; 18th Apr 2016 at 09:28.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    It's like if I funded the building of two houses, outsourced all the work to people who weren't into it, quit on both jobs then wondered how I lost money on the venture.
    Or if a cab driver got a flat tire but instead of getting it fixed he got a bunch of new rims & a paint job & new seats then sat there wondering why he didn't have any customers anymore.
    Orange liches from Blood Omen in Nosgoth asap pls

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by GamerMuffins
    Or submerge are self's in an illusion that society doesn't suck the way it works now. Since none of use can express the very art, Are soul desires to, In these current life style's/time's. And even if we did we would probably only live a sin full life style.
    Not sure why this warped into an anti-Capitalist religious rant but yikes...

    The game can absolutely be made stable and pull an audience if SE is willing to make changes on the business model they've chosen for it. But they won't.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Not sure why this warped into an anti-Capitalist religious rant but yikes...

    The game can absolutely be made stable and pull an audience if SE is willing to make changes on the business model they've chosen for it. But they won't.
    Problem is, it seems like Psyonix abandoned the game, letting SE without a dev team for Nosgoth. If it's really the case, I understand SE point of view, it would be long and hard to put a new team on the project. I'm mad at them for not doing so, but it's understandable from a pure financial perspective.

    But if they do find another team, let them the time to go through the code and if they advertise the game properly, bingo. Focusing on content and bugfixes would make this game much more solid, we all know that. Funny thing is, the hardest part is done regarding development for Nosgoth. They have a killer gameplay that works (almost) flawlessly and enough quality art and content to be able to make new stuff without being completely lost without Psyonix.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Roy644
    Problem is, it seems like Psyonix abandoned the game, letting SE without a dev team for Nosgoth. If it's really the case, I understand SE point of view, it would be long and hard to put a new team on the project. I'm mad at them for not doing so, but it's understandable from a pure financial perspective.

    But if they do find another team, let them the time to go through the code and if they advertise the game properly, bingo. Focusing on content and bugfixes would make this game much more solid, we all know that. Funny thing is, the hardest part is done regarding development for Nosgoth. They have a killer gameplay that works (almost) flawlessly and enough quality art and content to be able to make new stuff without being completely lost without Psyonix.
    Whatever they might possibly spend getting a new team on Nosgoth would be easily compensated if not by Nosgoth's returns then by any of the other popular projects they put out. It's not like Nosgoth is all SE's got going.

    Or maybe next time they outsource development, they get a contract so the team can't bail out all of a sudden.
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  11. #11
    I personally would like if Psyonix continued development, but handed over the server maintenance and match-making to someone else...
    Psyonix did a great job as a game, the Achilles Heel was all the bugs and server problems

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Whatever they might possibly spend getting a new team on Nosgoth would be easily compensated if not by Nosgoth's returns then by any of the other popular projects they put out. It's not like Nosgoth is all SE's got going.

    Or maybe next time they outsource development, they get a contract so the team can't bail out all of a sudden.
    Yup. But it's still speculation, and it will stay that way since they don't want to tell us the real reasons (which clearly means the real reasons are complete crap and don't make them look good).

    And actually, the more sensible thing to do would've been to put the project on hold, try to keep the servers up and search for alternatives. Not canceling the game out of nowhere


    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    I personally would like if Psyonix continued development, but handed over the server maintenance and match-making to someone else...
    Psyonix did a great job as a game, the Achilles Heel was all the bugs and server problems
    I'm pretty sure that the guys at Psyonix don't want the burden that is Nosgoth on their hands. Rocket League is THEIR game, and Nosgoth really isn't worth the manpower. IMO, this game needs fresh new devs that can focus on it and can actually give a damn.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Roy644
    IMO, this game needs fresh new devs that can focus on it and can actually give a damn.
    SE are probably aware that it's very unlikely that a team would want to take on a broken project like Nosgoth this late in development and don't want to spend the time searching. If a company could be persuaded to volunteer, it might be a different story.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    SE are probably aware that it's very unlikely that a team would want to take on a broken project like Nosgoth this late in development and don't want to spend the time searching. If a company could be persuaded to volunteer, it might be a different story.
    That's obvious, getting on-board at that stage can be painful. But I also think that a project like that could be huge for a studio that struggles to get some attention. I'm sure there are a lot of independent dev teams out there with the knowledge and skills to get Nosgoth going. As I already said, it's Unreal Engine 3, it's not like they were using a proprietary custom engine or something extremely new. It could be seen both ways : pretty hard to get through all the code and get to know the game, but there's nothing huge to be done gameplay-wise. The game is pretty much finished, even the lore is quite detailed and can help new people to keep this atmosphere with new content.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Roy644
    That's obvious, getting on-board at that stage can be painful. But I also think that a project like that could be huge for a studio that struggles to get some attention. I'm sure there are a lot of independent dev teams out there with the knowledge and skills to get Nosgoth going. As I already said, it's Unreal Engine 3, it's not like they were using a proprietary custom engine or something extremely new. It could be seen both ways : pretty hard to get through all the code and get to know the game, but there's nothing huge to be done gameplay-wise. The game is pretty much finished, even the lore is quite detailed and can help new people to keep this atmosphere with new content.
    I'm just saying it might be worth us asking around UE3 studios to see who would be willing to give it a go.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  16. #16
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    If they wanted to save Nosgoth, they could, but they have to WANT TO. We don't know what is the truth, only what we've been told (not enough players) or what we've read in articles...sadly we're grasping at straws - I wish we had something concrete as yes this is 100% truth swear on the bible - at then we could at least pose the right suggestions/thoughts - and try to save this amazing game.

    -If it is the player count - advertise and LEARN from what people have said.
    -If it is the devs then get a new studio.
    -If its something else then what is it?????????????????

    The fans have always been here advising, telling you what's wrong, what needs to be done to make the game successful, and we're still here. Please listen to us!

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    I'm just saying it might be worth us asking around UE3 studios to see who would be willing to give it a go.
    Way ahead of you my friend. I already started this process. I'm looking around and there are indeed tons of teams with UE3 FPS/TPS experience out there. I know it was common, but not this much.

  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by Roy644
    Way ahead of you my friend. I already started this process. I'm looking around and there are indeed tons of teams with UE3 FPS/TPS experience out there. I know it was common, but not this much.
    http://www.giantbomb.com/unreal-engine-3/3015-86/games/ Which Roy and I were looking at earlier on.
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  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Sluagh
    http://www.giantbomb.com/unreal-engine-3/3015-86/games/ Which Roy and I were looking at earlier on.
    When it comes to narrowing it down, I'd suggest trying to find ones that are located close to SE London (maybe close to Psyonix) and ones that have taken on games late in development before.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    When it comes to narrowing it down, I'd suggest trying to find ones that are located close to SE London (maybe close to Psyonix) and ones that have taken on games late in development before.
    Taken games late in development might seems like a pretty selective criteria... I think people without that kind of experience can still be interested by the opportunity

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by Roy644
    don't make them look good
    SE hasn't "looked good" for years now. People laugh at the name. Many won't even bother to use the full name.
    And they already look bad enough for how they've handled Nosgoth anyway.
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