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Thread: Death of Nosgoth and Psyonix's Rocket League BAFTA.

Death of Nosgoth and Psyonix's Rocket League BAFTA.

  1. #1

    Death of Nosgoth and Psyonix's Rocket League BAFTA.

    Ever since Rocket League started to make it big, I always felt it was at the expense of Nosgoth, as Psyonix was diverting their attention from Nosgoth, to the benefit of Rocket League.
    And speaking of which, and this I find tragically ironic, Psyonix won a BAFTA award for Rocket League nearly the exact same day that it was Announced that Nosgoth would be coming to an end. Almost the exact same day! One day apart!
    I find this symbolic, as one game was allowed to wither away and die in the shadows, while the other basked in the glory, and the light of media attention.
    Naturally this makes sense in the light of Rocket League being completely under Psyonix's control while Nosgoth was a contract job, though one would have wished they would have showed Nosgoth the same care and attention they afforded to their own IP. They did not own Nosgoth, but one would have wished for and almost expected them to invest as much time in a project they were hired to make, as their own pet project. If I was Square Enix I would be very sceptical of hiring Psyonix a second time around, knowing they are always distracted by their own project on the side.
    This reminds me a lot of the Aliens: Colonial Marines debacle with Gearbox being contracted by SEGA to make Aliens: Colonial Marines, but at the same time funneling away time and resources to make their own IP, Borderlands.

    In light of Psyonix's BAFTA award and Nosgoth going down, I am very tempted to go to the Rocket League forums, where Psyonix has their full attention, and "congratulate" them on the Rocket League BAFTA and letting them know just how much we "appreciate" them for this... What do you guys think? Anyone with me?

    And just to be clear, I blame both Square Enix and Psyonix for letting Nosgoth die like this.
    At the very least maybe the game industry press would be interested in this correlation between Rocket League's rise and Nosgoth's fall. If someone could contact the press that would be interesting, I would like to do it myself, but I am very ill and don't have the energy to do much more than what I have already done.
    Last edited by Fatereaver; 12th Apr 2016 at 21:43.

  2. #2
    This is the kind of information that should be in the games media press!

  3. #3
    I don't think anyone except us would be interested in such a thing. And that's the problem with Nosgoth. The game is amazing and honestly quite polished when it comes to gameplay and balancing (but broken as hell regarding the rest), but it seems like no one involved in the project really loved the game except the players.

    Psyonix was supposedly distracted by Rocket League and Square Enix never bothered with advertising and kept taking awful decisions regarding marketing and stuff... And that lack of interest from both parties killed the game. The gameplay is fantastic and UNIQUE, the art is amazing, the players were there, but the devs and publisher just didn't care enough to at least try. Sad, very sad

  4. #4
    I'd like to hear Psyonix's take on this whole thing, but I doubt we'll ever get enough information to know what really happened here. Edit: Also what really bugs me is seeing the amount of money Square Enix is pumping into Final Fantasy 15. An anime series and full length cgi movie starring Sean Bean, Aaron Paul and Lena Headey all before it's even released, and yet we can't spare enough to keep Nosgoth going.

    I know Angry Joe played this for a time and saw the potential in it, he has an audience and seems like someone who would probably voice some opinion on this.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Zerobot1
    I'd like to hear Psyonix's take on this whole thing, but I doubt we'll ever get enough information to know what really happened here. Edit: Also what really bugs me is seeing the amount of money Square Enix is pumping into Final Fantasy 15. An anime series and full length cgi movie starring Sean Bean, Aaron Paul and Lena Headey all before it's even released, and yet we can't spare enough to keep Nosgoth going.

    I know Angry Joe played this for a time and saw the potential in it, he has an audience and seems like someone who would probably voice some opinion on this.
    I tried to contact him actually, but it's quite impossible to get his attention. If you think you can have more success than I had, I encourage you to do so!

  6. #6
    I managed to let him know on his stream. He was sorry to hear it as he really enjoyed the game a great deal, and he wondered why they stopped listening to him about promoting the game. If you go to 2:11:30 in this VOD.

    https://www.twitch.tv/angryjoeshow/v/60217665


    I don't think anything will come of it anyway, but nice to know he enjoyed it at least.
    Last edited by Zerobot1; 13th Apr 2016 at 00:41.

  7. Originally Posted by Fatereaver
    Psyonix won a BAFTA award for Rocket League nearly the exact same day that it was Announced that Nosgoth would be coming to an end. Almost the exact same day! One day apart!
    I find this symbolic, as one game was allowed to wither away and die in the shadows, while the other basked in the glory, and the light of media attention.
    I looked it up and they even won three awards for Rocket League: Multiplayer, Sports and Family.

  8. #8
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    I am very happy for the team at Psyonix for winning the awards for their game, but indeed this as you guys have mentioned it pains me deep too, like you mentioned if it was because it was a contracted job to them I not sure to that. The Nosgoth team themselves really were/are passionate about the game, I met them last year and they were all amazing, I cant get over their love for it but I do wander if there were shared resources maybe these had other priorities though. The studio is small and the Nosgoth team there was tiny.

    In my head though I speculate that what we've been told isn't true and it went something more like this (and I say this is completely in jest, please don’t take it in serious at all):

    SE: You finished your game yet?
    Psyonix: Nope, we want to get it right, there are lots of bugs to fix and stuff
    SE: Hurry up
    Psyonix: We're going as quickly as we can, there are only a handful of us
    SE: Come on already
    Psyonix: Stop bothering us and go fix the bugs you caused
    SE: *Angry face* We want the game released, you have 2 months to get it done!
    Psyonix: But but but that’s impossible *cries*
    SE: Well you can’t meet the deadline then we’re pulling the plug *plug pulled*
    The End

  9. #9
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    They are not interested in contract work any more, which, I take it, played a part in this cancellation. Why invest energy in an existing license you don't really care about for a relative pittance, if you can pour your passion into a creation of your own and see better potential returns? Before Rocket League took off, they simply didn't have the means or prestige to do anything else. But it's a different matter once you're off the breadline.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    They are not interested in contract work any more, which, I take it, played a part in this cancellation. Why invest energy in an existing license you don't really care about for a relative pittance, if you can pour your passion into a creation of your own and see better potential returns? Before Rocket League took off, they simply didn't have the means or prestige to do anything else. But it's a different matter once you're off the breadline.
    Well if that's true, it's really selfish from Psyonix. But I don't buy it. If Square Enix genuinely wanted the game to continue and hit release with a lot of success, they would have simply searched for more serious developers that are interested in the project.

  11. #11
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    I don't think it makes sense to either studio to continue production, beyond the individuals directly affected.

    Square, rightly or wrongly, are not seeing the audience and the returns to sustain further development. They also appear to be moving away from this genre as far as business philosophy is concerned, given the similar cancellation of Triad Wars not long ago. Psyonix have effectively won the lottery and don't need indentured servitude to keep themselves afloat any more. It is in no way easy nor cheap to swap developers at such a late stage in any hoary long-running project – usually more trouble than it's worth.

    I am just some rando on an internet forum and can already piece together their dilemma; I wouldn't be surprised if the other rationales they're willfully refusing to disclose are actually logical and have only been hidden for reasons of professionalism.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  12. #12
    "Pretty much all projects coming out of Psyonix now are going to be Psyonix originals." - Dave Hagewood
    https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagu..._with_psyonix/

    This is pure conjecture, but it looks like Psyonix chose to end or at least not renew their contract regarding Nosgoth. Again, not accusing here, just speculating, but it seems to me like a likely scenario.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  13. Originally Posted by lucinvampire
    The Nosgoth team themselves really were/are passionate about the game, I met them last year and they were all amazing, I cant get over their love for it but I do wander if there were shared resources maybe these had other priorities though. The studio is small and the Nosgoth team there was tiny.
    Could you elaborate on how many people they were aproximately? From this photo: http://psyonix.com/about/
    How many of them were working on Nosgoth?

    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    They are not interested in contract work any more, which, I take it, played a part in this cancellation. Why invest energy in an existing license you don't really care about for a relative pittance, if you can pour your passion into a creation of your own and see better potential returns? Before Rocket League took off, they simply didn't have the means or prestige to do anything else. But it's a different matter once you're off the breadline.
    I think the problem wasn't passion, but just the contract work. If Nosgoth would've been completely in their hands, it probably would have been a better game to be honest. In my opinion, it was not Nosgoth itself they had problems with, but the way they had to do it.

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    "Pretty much all projects coming out of Psyonix now are going to be Psyonix originals." - Dave Hagewood
    https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagu..._with_psyonix/

    This is pure conjecture, but it looks like Psyonix chose to end or at least not renew their contract regarding Nosgoth. Again, not accusing here, just speculating, but it seems to me like a likely scenario.
    I don't really know the chronology of events, but all of this seems to have a role.
    I looked up Square Enix' fiscal year, and it starts at 1st of April and ends 31st of March the following year. So it could be some cleaning up that could've happened to Nosgoth.

    Maybe at the time of the interview with Hagewood, it was already clear, that the game would be ditched by SE.
    Last edited by enkaku-silence-; 13th Apr 2016 at 14:03.

  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by enkaku-silence-
    I think the problem wasn't passion, but just the contract work. If Nosgoth would've been completely in their hands, it probably would have been a better game to be honest. In my opinion, it was not Nosgoth itself they had problems with, but the way they had to do it.
    For all we know, they might well go on to create some sort of ideal successor to Nosgoth (under an original name and scenario) which they themselves can control, without all the IP constraints and middle management.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    They are not interested in contract work any more, which, I take it, played a part in this cancellation. Why invest energy in an existing license you don't really care about for a relative pittance, if you can pour your passion into a creation of your own and see better potential returns? Before Rocket League took off, they simply didn't have the means or prestige to do anything else. But it's a different matter once you're off the breadline.
    Ok if this is the case I 100% eat my hat from my joke earlier. If this is true then I really beg SE to try to do something, I can understand that’d be awkward even if they take their work to another studio. If Psyonix has pulled their side of the contract, I don’t know legally where SE stand, its their game and their IP to technically I think they’d hold the power to do what they want with the game if they decided to continue it.

    No matter what the case then I am very disappointed that people (in charge or otherwise) couldn’t even just push another few months to get the game out there. Anyway whatever the thing that has gone on be it players, money, and studios I feel its most likely come from higher than the development teams themselves, I could be wrong, it could be aliens for all I know.

    Sorry my emotions run high atm

    Originally Posted by enkaku-silence-
    Could you elaborate on how many people they were aproximately? From this photo: http://psyonix.com/about/
    How many of them were working on Nosgoth?
    I’m not sure if the Programming and QA side were shared or dedicated to the game, so I wouldn’t like to speculate anymore because I don’t know those figures.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by lucinvampire
    I could be wrong, it could be aliens for all I know.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by The_Dapper_Sapper
    Still more believable than the player-base thing

  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    For all we know, they might well go on to create some sort of ideal successor to Nosgoth (under an original name and scenario) which they themselves can control, without all the IP constraints and middle management.
    That might very well be right Aevum; a good chance of it if they had that passion.

    However, I am not willing to risk it concerning how much the series has been buggered about with false starts and promises over the years which is why am trying to use this FB group to try and plan to keep the game afloat in its final days and stop the plug being pulled

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1716...60571729727460
    signature image

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    For all we know, they might well go on to create some sort of ideal successor to Nosgoth (under an original name and scenario) which they themselves can control, without all the IP constraints and middle management.
    Unlikely. Why would they bother while Rocket League is so successful.
    After the forum goes down, I can be found on Steam, Twitter, and Facebook.

  20. #20
    To make more money.

  21. Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Unlikely. Why would they bother while Rocket League is so successful.
    Because Hagewood said in that interview, that they are going to start new projects?

  22. #22
    Excelent discution here.... congratulations guys youre doing an excelent and amazing job trying to figure out whats happening. I think this community is realy committed as ever was. it really makes us think of all that has been ignored by this community.

  23. #23
    They make a game call "Blood Herald", is about humans and vampires on a dark setting. so is their own new IP

    and it becomes Nosgoth, but with out Square Enix.

    But i dont think that is legaly possible.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by DemonioB1anco
    They make a game call "Blood Herald", is about humans and vampires on a dark setting. so is their own new IP

    and it becomes Nosgoth, but with out Square Enix.

    But i dont think that is legaly possible.

    Creating their own IP and game that's similar to some other pre-existing thing? That's absolutely legal or the industry would have collapsed decades ago.
    After the forum goes down, I can be found on Steam, Twitter, and Facebook.

  25. #25
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    I haven't been playing Nosgoth all that much recently, but I heard about it dying not too long ago. This really sucks. I have a feeling is might be the final nail in the coffin for Legacy of Kain. I don't know what to think about all this, both sides are making sense here. I waited years for a new Legacy of Kain game, and we got this, which was fine, and I was hoping that by supporting it that it might lead to a new single player adventure. The classes in the game showed the potential this setting has for more play types than Kain and Raziel, showing how a game with a human main character could work even.
    I'll probably play it more often now and see it through to the end.

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