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Thread: League Beta 6.0 steps forth from the darkness

League Beta 6.0 steps forth from the darkness

  1. #101
    Originally Posted by MuShYRoOM
    Now its the opportunity to lower the requirement for the reward to gold.
    Then we will see after mid-month, if the majority was playing league because of the reward or because of fun.
    Personally i like Leagues cause it's much faster to find matches this way...i hate having to wait almost 30 mins for a match in regular TDM (long time to find a server, not to mention when i do ppl keep leaving and re-queuing).

    I feel like i'm the only one that has similar experience in TDM and Leagues in terms of match balance. They don't seem so different for me, so i welcome Leagues. (but i must say this League's rewards seems rather 'meh' like the last one...although they didn't show the skin yet, im assuming its just a repaint)

  2. #102
    Join Date
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    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    I feel like i'm the only one that has similar experience in TDM and Leagues in terms of match balance. They don't seem so different for me, so i welcome Leagues. (but i must say this League's rewards seems rather 'meh' like the last one...although they didn't show the skin yet, im assuming its just a repaint)
    The difference is, when I am in a TDM match, I don't care if someone is being a total noob. I try to help and give hints, and if they respond with ignorance and complaints, I'll just forget about them and move on..
    In a ranked match - even if I just play because nothing else is up - you are constantly reminded of how this one idiot in your team is costing you points and progression. So this League I will skip - meaning I will just have to play ESL without warming up.

  3. #103
    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    The difference is, when I am in a TDM match, I don't care if someone is being a total noob. I try to help and give hints, and if they respond with ignorance and complaints, I'll just forget about them and move on..
    In a ranked match - even if I just play because nothing else is up - you are constantly reminded of how this one idiot in your team is costing you points and progression. So this League I will skip - meaning I will just have to play ESL without warming up.
    I see your point, but most matches are "noob balanced"...which by that I mean, if you think you are suffering from a new player on your team, in reality the other team is also.
    In other words...most matches, if you look at the score, you'll see the enemy team also has a new player doing low dmg, with bad kill/death ratio. But they did a better job at "carrying"...

  4. #104
    Join Date
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    Location
    Germany
    Posts
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    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    I see your point, but most matches are "noob balanced"...which by that I mean, if you think you are suffering from a new player on your team, in reality the other team is also.
    In other words...most matches, if you look at the score, you'll see the enemy team also has a new player doing low dmg, with bad kill/death ratio. But they did a better job at "carrying"...
    This is true to some extend, though there are different kinds of noobs:
    1) The Pounce Reaver
    The Pounce Reaver likes to keep to himself. He sits atop a roof, waiting for a weak enemy standing still long enough for him to hit him. While his team is dying, he waits patiently to strike... and dies instantly when he does.
    2) The Guy with 2 Left Hands
    His aim is... virtually nonexistant. Even if he shoved his gun up the vampires nose, he would still miss.
    3) The Run Perk Scout
    I hear/see a vampire close to me or my team? Better turn on Camo and run away.
    4) The MLG Sentinel
    What are tutorials again? How do I fly without activating my ability?
    You know what? I'll just slowly fly toward the 2 scouts and grab one..

    These 4 types are what lose you games. Either they don't engage with you, either too early or too late and die alone, compromise the positions or simply hit nothing, eventhough they are in the fight with you.

    These make up a tiny minority (thankfully), yet they always find themselves into MY team.
    Other players might be bad, but at least they use their abilities (if not always on time or perfectly, but at least they don't forget the have them), they try to engage with the team and maybe hit half their shots.

    The problem with the matchmaking is that it uses MMR instead of Ranks.
    So I didn't play all week (coz ranked) and I wanted to help out a friend that is going for the moneyz.
    Somehow, our team gets stacked with low MMR noobs (to counter his and mine) while the enemy team gets mediocre players in counter to their high MMR players... and yet - everyone is already in low-high Gold, while I am still in Silver III.

    This is why I cannot take ranked seriously. If I miss a week of ranked, why do I have to play my Bronze-Gold matches against Eternals and Bloods all the same? Sure, my MMR is as high as theirs, but how does the rank even matter at that point?
    Just remove ranked and give us money according to our MMR number - saves me a lot of grind.

  5. #105
    @Da_Wolv You forgot the backstab deceiver who thinks nobody will notice him running around in his disguise.

  6. #106
    And Great-Warlord Summoners, huge fans of casting ghouls, proudly observing batlle from the roof with no participation.

  7. #107
    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    This is true to some extend, though there are different kinds of noobs:
    1) The Pounce Reaver
    The Pounce Reaver likes to keep to himself. He sits atop a roof, waiting for a weak enemy standing still long enough for him to hit him. While his team is dying, he waits patiently to strike... and dies instantly when he does.
    2) The Guy with 2 Left Hands
    His aim is... virtually nonexistant. Even if he shoved his gun up the vampires nose, he would still miss.
    3) The Run Perk Scout
    I hear/see a vampire close to me or my team? Better turn on Camo and run away.
    4) The MLG Sentinel
    What are tutorials again? How do I fly without activating my ability?
    You know what? I'll just slowly fly toward the 2 scouts and grab one..
    Pretty good stuff there.
    I see myself as a 2 sometimes, tending to a 4.
    Or just as the alc!
    He´s coming for ya... he´s going to getcha.....
    wait - they are 3!
    Whare is my team? TEAM?????
    dead...

    Or yeah - a sneaky deceiver. Especially against these tournament tryhards.
    I don´t know.. yeah - i heard they are playing tournaments all day.
    Making a good living of it.
    They play without music.
    Like ..how can you play without music? Gosh... can´t even get away from that spawn. QQ QQ QQ ....TEAM????


  8. #108
    Join Date
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    18
    I'll just add my voice to the many and keep my question short.

    I understand you guys are busy atm but are you ever going to address the grinding part of league? Since its one of the main problems people have with ranked.
    It could be I missed a reply in this thread, if not, address this please.

    Or you could be honest about what you created and just call it Grindfest Beta 6.0

  9. #109
    Originally Posted by Oghamsmith
    You're right Vampmaster, the prizes during League Betas are certainly a draw. Ranking is too, as is the lower leaver rate in League games. There are a quite a few reasons why people choose to play more Nosgoth while Leagues are available to them, and we would like to keep that choice available to players as often as we can.

    Regarding your question about meshes.
    We still need to sign off on future League rewards, but in general we do want to try and get more Vampire content into them. I'm not sure if mesh changes are planned to be honest, we're investigating potentially broadening the types of prizing that might be available. We can speak about that a bit more, later down the line.

    As mentioned before, bug fixes for Leagues are on the way, they have however been held up due to the recent patch delay. Generally, the amount of time that we have to test different Leagues configurations isn't indefinite. Changing the minimum level requirement might seem like a small change to you guys, which is understandable, mechanically it is a minor tweak. It does however have the potential to have quite a large impact on how new players approach Nosgoth, play the game, and ultimately how long the stick around. This is pretty darn important to any game, Free to Play in particular. If increasing the minimum requirement drops the number of new players we have returning to the game by 15%, that's a big problem. This test is important and does need to happen. There are absolutely other factors to be taken into consideration as well, we will not be ignoring those.

    There's not a huge point to arguing about what does and doesn't constitute mid-season, that's inconsequential as to whether or not we will be stopping beta 6.0. Once a season commences, we're quite averse to the idea of ending it, regardless of how long it has been running for. Ensuring that future seasons happen at a better cadence for everyone is what I'm working to make happen at the moment.
    Hey Ogham,

    Just gunna give a little more feedback, being a regular player of Nosgoth, and someone who's reached eternal before.

    I must say, leagues are fun. I personally enjoy them quite a bit, but I haven't played league for a few seasons, for a few reasons in particular.

    The main reason why I haven't played is because of the prizes. I don't much care for the Sentinel, so I didn't mind missing out of a special version of his new ability. I also think golden weapons are kind of pretentious, so I skipped the beastmasters shotgun as well.

    I do, however, love remeshes. I always, always use my Bloody Victor skins for the Hunter and Alchemist, very well made and gritty looking skins. I love them. Anything new and unique, especially if it's rare, makes me happy and it makes me want to fight for it.

    Gold shotguns, meh, flashy sentinel power? Pass. Tyrant skin? Yes please.

    Although, I hear it's a recolor for the base skin, so blegh, I'd rather wear ones I've actually purchased. I'm sure a lot of people will say that it's a little unfair that the humans get these badass skins while the vampires just get recolors. I agree and I like humans more, heh.

    So for my first reason, if the prizes aren't to my liking, I seem to pass up on leagues, so for me PERSONALLY, prizes are definitely an incentive, depending on what I end up taking a liking to.

    The flashier and more unique the prize, the better chance I'm going to fight tooth and nail for it.

    Anyways, another reason, the way league points are distributed seems.... jaded... if that's the right word for it.

    It seems to me like it's up to chance whether or not you get points, and what I mean by that is whether you win or lose. Sure, soloing leagues is risky, but even with a friend, you still only make half a team. There are times where I've done well for what I was dealt, only to lose points.

    It really makes or breaks the feeling of league. If you're certain you're going to lose against opposition much better than you and your team, it just really makes me not want to play the rest of the match. It makes me want to type in /surrender and just move on to the next league match.

    To me, that just feels like busy-work. I feel like I shouldn't only be bothered if I know I'm going to win, or at least have a good chance. I feel like there needs to be incentive to fight to your last breath, especially if you're getting outright slammed by your opposition.

    I feel like the league should measure up you and yours, then determine how well you did amongst them, how much damage you did, heals you dealt, takedowns you got, final blows, your placement, hell, if you can even program it, how many times you've saved a teammate from certain death!

    If I were to lose, even decisively lose a match, but still gain a few points for my efforts, I'd play more for sure. I'd say change the point system all together, because it's either -3 or +14. That's how it looks in my eyes.

    Whats even more frustrating is snatching that precious win and only getting 2 or 3 points. Why even bother at that point, and why did I get so few points? Did I play too much that day? I feel like it could be a little more clear.

    Anyways, reason 2 is because of how you move up the ladder. It feels forced, jaded, and up to chance, and I'm sick of flipping a coin to win, especially when I constantly opp the more "suspicious" players.

    The third and final reason is stress. AS I'm sure you're aware, the way leagues are handled is stressful, especially if you only really move up is by winning.

    However, my personal stressor is classes. I am so, so exhausted of playing matches that never fail to have 2 or more scouts and 2 or more sentinels.

    For the love of god please play a different class for once. Where are all the high leveled Reavers? The Decievers?!

    Where are all the Vanguards?! The higher leveled hunters?

    Well, the Vanguard hardly ever registers, so that's why, but jeezle.

    It's just.... the same. So samey. You got your APA or APT BT flowchart sens and your classic persuit, or should I say "Flee" scouts.

    I just do NOT care to play leagues when I'm almost certain the roster will be two of those two classes without fail.

    Bluh, that's all I can think of for the moment, I hope my feedback holds some sort of candle amongst the blaze of other opinions.

    Anyways, thanks for taking the time to read what I had to say, it means a lot.

    Heres to the continuation and evolution of Nosgoth! I'm excited to see what it will be in the future, because it most definitely has great potential!

  10. #110
    At this point, I can't even imagine what the work dynamic for this game is like. There are a handful of Psyonix divisions contributing different portions, which is convoluted enough, and on top of that Square Enix is handing down edicts on how to handle the game to someone. Are the devs asleep in the offices? Does the enormous amount of conference calls slow down production? Who knows.

    The development speed is abysmal though. I've never seen anything like it, not with the size of the producing company (SE). Month after month they throw $10,000 dollars at beta leagues which are...

    The responses and lack of responses to suggestions or queries are pretty disheartening though.

    Forum poster: "What are you doing about this?"

    Community manager/dev response: "We're currently not working on that now."

    Really? What are you thoughts? Is there a timeline? A clue? A vision?

    Forum poster: "What are you doing about that?"

    *crickets*

    Whatever, man. People have tried. I've tried. Tried to put up feedback and info for the company but as far I can tell, there's a script that they're told to post by and that's all they get to do. A lot of folks on this forum have good insight and experience with other games and we've brought that knowledge here for free, some of us with a lot of passion for the related LoK series, or people like myself because this is a great game at the foundation but it's unfinished.

    What Raptr0s said about the league matches is true too. The matches are stale because the same classes get played because they've been tried and tested as the most effective. Can't have enough prophets with Eldritch Shield though, and great scouts are match dominating. Sentinels lag waggling during abduct are a real pain to hit, and 2 or 3 ragewave charge tyrants is a lot of health to try to burn through.

    "Are balance changes coming in the future?"

    *crickets*

  11. #111
    Originally Posted by TheDreamcrusher

    "Are balance changes coming in the future?"
    "Yes, we are going to release a super class with more mobility than vamps and buffs that allow two good players to beat a time by themselves, you can look forward to that SOON.

  12. #112
    Originally Posted by --Ram--
    "Yes, we are going to release a super class with more mobility than vamps and buffs that allow two good players to beat a time by themselves, you can look forward to that SOON.
    I've been talking with a friend about how BM might be OP with his bird form...and does anyone remember my fall damage suggestion to the Reaver's pounce?


    If this was incorporated, it would be a really good counter for the BM...making his bird form more of a risk and therefor less OP (not to mention the Pounce is a basic ability which all players have access already...)

    EDIT: Found my thread: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/sho...d.php?t=157970
    Last edited by ParadoxicalOmen; 8th Mar 2016 at 21:21.

  13. #113
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    I've been talking with a friend about how BM might be OP with his bird form...and does anyone remember my fall damage suggestion to the Reaver's pounce?


    If this was incorporated, it would be a really good counter for the BM...making his bird form more of a risk and therefor less OP (not to mention the Pounce is a basic ability which all players have access already...)

    EDIT: Found my thread: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/sho...d.php?t=157970
    pounce is completely useless in the current state. wont change after bm got released. you could just grab bm midflight, way easier than pounce.

  14. #114
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    I've been talking with a friend about how BM might be OP with his bird form...and does anyone remember my fall damage suggestion to the Reaver's pounce?


    If this was incorporated, it would be a really good counter for the BM...making his bird form more of a risk and therefor less OP (not to mention the Pounce is a basic ability which all players have access already...)

    EDIT: Found my thread: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/sho...d.php?t=157970
    It's yet to be seen how many abilities you get to use in bird form. You may only have Swoop or Wrath of the Firebird but both would be very strong. However, Swoop and Powershot is gonna be a tough combo to deal with. Beastmaster will have the aerial view of a sentinel and a version of Dive Bomb to interrupt attacking vampires.

    I'm guessing Dominate Mind will be the hard counter to BMs who like to fly too high or too often. First tick of damage should cause them to drop, but that will break Dominate Mind if the impact damage is high enough.

  15. #115
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    I've been talking with a friend about how BM might be OP with his bird form...and does anyone remember my fall damage suggestion to the Reaver's pounce?


    If this was incorporated, it would be a really good counter for the BM...making his bird form more of a risk and therefor less OP (not to mention the Pounce is a basic ability which all players have access already...)

    EDIT: Found my thread: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/sho...d.php?t=157970
    Kind of a scary idea. While I've always though about this being a thing, I'm afraid skilled savage pouncers could snag one hit kills from pounces, and to me, that's just a LITTLE bit too good, seeing that savage pounce can do, around 800 damage or so? Especially with the impact damage talent.

    Originally Posted by kLauE187
    pounce is completely useless in the current state. wont change after bm got released. you could just grab bm midflight, way easier than pounce.
    What on earth are you talking about. Pounce is pretty much on par with everything else.

    Originally Posted by TheDreamcrusher
    It's yet to be seen how many abilities you get to use in bird form. You may only have Swoop or Wrath of the Firebird but both would be very strong. However, Swoop and Powershot is gonna be a tough combo to deal with. Beastmaster will have the aerial view of a sentinel and a version of Dive Bomb to interrupt attacking vampires.

    I'm guessing Dominate Mind will be the hard counter to BMs who like to fly too high or too often. First tick of damage should cause them to drop, but that will break Dominate Mind if the impact damage is high enough.
    Still though, dropping him from high up and starting his cooldown early is always a plus, even If you only get a few seconds of dom time.

    I agree though, the first tick should break his threshawk form.

    The Divebomb powershot two-piece combo DOES sound scary on paper... Wonder how effective it would be in-game

    It could have the potential of being worse than a skimmer sentinel.

    Originally Posted by TheDreamcrusher
    At this point, I can't even imagine what the work dynamic for this game is like. There are a handful of Psyonix divisions contributing different portions, which is convoluted enough, and on top of that Square Enix is handing down edicts on how to handle the game to someone. Are the devs asleep in the offices? Does the enormous amount of conference calls slow down production? Who knows.

    The development speed is abysmal though. I've never seen anything like it, not with the size of the producing company (SE). Month after month they throw $10,000 dollars at beta leagues which are...

    The responses and lack of responses to suggestions or queries are pretty disheartening though.

    Forum poster: "What are you doing about this?"

    Community manager/dev response: "We're currently not working on that now."

    Really? What are you thoughts? Is there a timeline? A clue? A vision?

    Forum poster: "What are you doing about that?"

    *crickets*

    Whatever, man. People have tried. I've tried. Tried to put up feedback and info for the company but as far I can tell, there's a script that they're told to post by and that's all they get to do. A lot of folks on this forum have good insight and experience with other games and we've brought that knowledge here for free, some of us with a lot of passion for the related LoK series, or people like myself because this is a great game at the foundation but it's unfinished.

    What Raptr0s said about the league matches is true too. The matches are stale because the same classes get played because they've been tried and tested as the most effective. Can't have enough prophets with Eldritch Shield though, and great scouts are match dominating. Sentinels lag waggling during abduct are a real pain to hit, and 2 or 3 ragewave charge tyrants is a lot of health to try to burn through.

    "Are balance changes coming in the future?"

    *crickets*
    Oh god I forgot all about rage Tyrants. Man, if you ask me, they should only get a damage buff if they are actually HURT, rather than a buff from just popping the skill.

    I mean, I got hit for 414 (I believe) from one uncharged melee attack. If I wasn't mistaken... that's some ass.

    Not to mention the Tyrants own version of "Skimming". Hit em with a grab (which is dumb-broken btw) or a wave, then before the canned animation is even finished, be in your face with a charge or charge attack. Sure Vampires are supposed to be better in 1v1s for the most part, but it should be because of how you use the vampire, NOT because he can link his skills.

    Bluh, /rant.

    I really wanted to comment o0n your view of their communication, or lack thereof.

    I play APB:R, a game notorious for silly development decisions and lack of communication.

    It's so bad that they announced a release of two new in-game vehicles, (A pretty big deal in APB), released one, then just completely forgot about the other one.

    Literally not a single mention of it since it's initial reveal.

    Crazy yeah?

    Just because they reply with scripted nonsense or don't reply at all DOESN'T necessarily mean they aren't reading.

    I know, it's jarring and kind of off putting not to hear anything, or getting a "hush up we're working" reply, but know this...

    If devs were to start confirming/promising things, it can turn into ... fast.

    The moment they're a day late, or a promise doesn't go through, all hell breaks loose and the playerbase turns to a toxic cesspool of "I TOLD YOU SO"s.

    Hell, I've read things on the APB forums that are downright embarrassing. Players come up with ridiculous speculations because of what devs said, then immediately get irritated when their outlandish predictions don't come true.

    It's one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

    Either way, they're going to catch flak for what they do.

    Don't say a word and you'll never have to worry about not following through on promises, but you'll get *ed at for being silent.

    Share the details and you'll have community support for the stuff they like, but get jeered at for the stuff they don't and sub sequentially, get chewed out for it.

    But I'm rambling....

    All we can do is hope they read what we have to say, and that they have enough leeway with their bosses to implement a thing or two.
    Last edited by Raptr0s; 9th Mar 2016 at 20:07.

  16. #116
    Originally Posted by Raptr0s
    What on earth are you talking about. Pounce is pretty much on par with everything else.
    You can dodge a pounce into almost every direction with either melee or melee-roll. Good luck hitting a good player with it. Not to mention that most pounce reaver just bait there team for distraction and miss most of the times.

  17. #117
    Hey, I'll put it simple... this "ranked" system is totally flawed, it is centered around accommodating average-low tier players/while punishing the top tier players. Let's just think about it, anyone who has played any competitive game, a ranked mode enables you to choose your team. People complain, oh the esl teams are always winning, the games get boring. How about waking up, a ranked system, is only a ranked system when the better players are at the top of the leader board,and the average players in the middle, with the bottom tier at the bottom. If your problem is fighting a 4 stack, then go find yourself a 4-stack like everyother game. Psyonix, please stop focusing on making everyone happy, and make your game centered around a skill based ladder, rather than focusing on games played. Open 4 stack parties to league, at least that way, your "competitive" side will at least get to practice and not be forced to play league as duo all day as it is focused around games played.

    I mitht be wrong, but hey it's my experience/opinion from playing other good shooter's. Make the rewards for skins easy to attain so the "avg-low tier players don't complain"

    There that's a simple solution

    Enjoy...

  18. #118
    Originally Posted by Raptr0s
    It's one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

    Either way, they're going to catch flak for what they do.
    It might be. A lot of people, myself included, have tried to make suggestions to improve the game but most of the time we have absolutely no idea where the game is going and what level of acknowledgement there is going on with the suggestions.

    I think Savage Pounce can hit for 525 or 550 on initial impact with the talent at max. Really, one of the better suggestions I ever read was to make Leap Attack the default reaver special ability. That would help newcomers quite a bit. Pounce punishes them for learning and using an initially available ability that doesn't work very well when in mid- and high-level play.

  19. #119
    Originally Posted by TheDreamcrusher
    It might be. A lot of people, myself included, have tried to make suggestions to improve the game but most of the time we have absolutely no idea where the game is going and what level of acknowledgement there is going on with the suggestions.
    The team is having some issues for sure...either a shortage of resources (no money for programmers for example), or had ppl reallocated to the Rocket League game (since its more successful). Cause i feel less interaction from them, comparing from the Alpha and close beta times...

    I remember the suggestion threads were given more consideration...now it feel like it's two separate worlds, one where we are debating about the game, and the other where the devs carry out their "to do" list.
    So, to me, only when they are finished will they consider suggestions from us...even though i believe this, i wont stop coming here and giving ideas and feedback

  20. #120
    Any reason why Occult items are not dropping for players in league 6.0?

  21. Could it be that the 2100 runes Tyrant skin was originally intended as league reward? Because he kind of looks like a bloody victor.

  22. #122
    League points are still broken. I don't play ranked anymore ever since I became aware of the problems but I am STILL LOSING POINTS, even though I didn't play a single ranked match for days. It seems to be 4 points at a time, as if the system thought I left a ranked game, but it's hard to be sure. If this causes me to lose my blood reward I will be quite annoyed.

    I resent the way you refused to change anything mid season because that'd be 'moving goalposts', but when you broke the mode, you just left it like this. It's been a week now, with 11 days remaining.

  23. #123
    Originally Posted by Ysanoire
    League points are still broken. I don't play ranked anymore ever since I became aware of the problems but I am STILL LOSING POINTS, even though I didn't play a single ranked match for days. It seems to be 4 points at a time, as if the system thought I left a ranked game, but it's hard to be sure. If this causes me to lose my blood reward I will be quite annoyed.

    I resent the way you refused to change anything mid season because that'd be 'moving goalposts', but when you broke the mode, you just left it like this. It's been a week now, with 11 days remaining.
    It kind of feels like they already did move the goalposts mid season. If something is broken, fix it. If something was deliberately changed part way through the season, put it back.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  24. #124
    I didn't play several day. The number of matches/victories/defeats hasn't changed. But I have lost 16 points.
    I have played one match with the full bonus pool today.
    I have received 1 point.

    I think, time has come to remove this game and to forget as a bad dream.

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