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Thread: [DISCUSSION] Opportunities

  1. #1
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    Post [DISCUSSION] Opportunities

    Opportunities is a new feature for HITMAN.

    This feature will help you to work through possible hit scenarios and will give you guidance.

    Opportunities are fully optional and have three different toggleable options that can be changed during gameplay.
    Full, Minimal and Off.

    Full will guide you through each step. Minimal will only gives you the clues. Off will give you no help at all.

    Use this thread to tell us what you think about them.

  2. #2
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    This is a bit early, but I'm really happy to see that the 'Opportunities' are optional.

    It's a good start for new players, but I found that during the Alpha, it gave too much info away.

  3. #3
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    I like the Opportunities and I especially like that they're optional. I haven't turned them off yet or adjusted their settings to minimal; I left it on its default setting just to experiment with it. I like that it serves as a "I give up" option if you can't figure something out; it basically leads you step by step to what you need to take advantage of the Opportunity. However, now that I've finished the Final Test, I'm going to go back and mess around with the Yacht Training and Final Test missions once more without any kind of assistance whatsoever. I'm curious to see how many different assassination methods are present in the beta alone.

    (click image to enlarge)

  4. #4
    Opportunities are a really good thing for people who want to be guided the first times but I will turn them minimal eventually and I will play the game the hardest mode! I want it to be as real as possible!

  5. #5
    There's no "track" option in the Intel menu. I have the option to track an opportunity when I first get it but is there an option to track another one when I change my mind?

  6. #6
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    Feb 2016
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    I quite enjoy the Intel/Opportunities. It gives you more of the story and makes it feel less like an empty sandbox which would be boring as hell. Agreed with Alsharad, the tracking needs fixing.

  7. #7
    I like the Opportunities a lot. It's a really nice touch to hear about the different ways you can go about a mission but sometimes I feel like it leads the player a little too much. For instance, in the Final mission the first opportunity you hear tells you to get a guard suit and then indicates the closest guard. I feel like it would be better for the player to have to find a guard suit themselves instead of being told where exactly to find one. However, I can see where it could get tricky if there's an object or disguise a player must find and they don't know what it looks like or where to find it.

    Also, I wish I could change which opportunity I can track when I've unlocked multiple opportunities. In the Final mission, I was tracking one opportunity, then accidentally started tracking another opportunity and I couldn't go back and track the previous opportunity I was trying to complete. Being able to toggle which opportunity you are tracking at one given time would be a nice feature.

  8. #8
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    First of all, let me just say a huge 'well done' for all of your guys' hard work on this game - I think all of us here on the forums can agree that this is the game we've all been hoping for for a while. Let me just share a few thoughts with you on opportunities, though.

    I think that the core concept of these is great - it provides a number of ways to kill your target, providing ample replayability and adding interest to these fantastic sandboxes. For the most part, these worked excellently for me in the Beta. However I know that you are looking for ways to further improve the game, and so there are also some concerns which I share with some other reviewers such as RPS as to the scripting of these. In particular, I sometimes found it hard to know what would trigger certain events, which in some cases lead to problems achieving some of the challenges (or at least I had to perform specific actions to 'trigger' these, which did spoil my immersion in the world somewhat.

    To give an example, I saw that one of the challenges on the boat mission was to impersonate Norfolk. I got a security guard outfit, hoping to follow him up the ramp and onto the boat, so I hid and staked him out for a very long time. He didn't move. I played around a little more with this and found that it seemed to be proximity to Ritter which would trigger some of his actions, and that once he went up the stairs to the bar area, Norfolk would set off onto the boat. So on another runthrough I went straight for the bar area, and Norfolk ended up moving almost immediately.

    Similarly, whilst trying to get the 'A Slide Mistake' achievement on the airbase, I took the KGB officer uniform and set up the projector. I hung around the target for a while, waiting for him to notice (as he did in a previous runthrough) that the projector was on and waiting for him. However, after several cycles of redacted notes - chess board - noticeboard - cigarette, he didn't seem to be interested, leaving me clueless as to how to get him to the projector without the KGB officer himself in play.

    These are very small gripes in an otherwise stellar experience - I have played each of these probably more than 20 times each. I wonder if there would be a way to play with the scripting so that they are triggered by time rather than the player's actions. I would certainly prefer to know that I had missed an opportunity because I was too slow, than to feel like I was ticking boxes in order to 'run' certain events. Equally, I know that this won't apply to all opportunities. For example, it makes sense to me that Ritter won't go to his office until Norfolk arrives. If I was to take Norfolk out quietly, it would seem odd if Ritter carried on without his business partner. However for some of these opportunities it feels like one often has to go through a slightly forced process, or at least not always a totally obvious one, in order to push over the first domino in the run. I think this is possibly also what RockPaperShotgun allude to in their preview, adding to my concern that this may carry over into the full game.

    I'm not sure if there is an easy fix to this, or whether it is something that we will just get used to over time, but you asked for critical feedback from the Beta, so there it is!

    Good job again guys, in spite of the above it's going to be a very long month waiting for Paris.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Simt33 View Post
    First of all, let me just say a huge 'well done' for all of your guys' hard work on this game - I think all of us here on the forums can agree that this is the game we've all been hoping for for a while. Let me just share a few thoughts with you on opportunities, though.

    I think that the core concept of these is great - it provides a number of ways to kill your target, providing ample replayability and adding interest to these fantastic sandboxes. For the most part, these worked excellently for me in the Beta. However I know that you are looking for ways to further improve the game, and so there are also some concerns which I share with some other reviewers such as RPS as to the scripting of these. In particular, I sometimes found it hard to know what would trigger certain events, which in some cases lead to problems achieving some of the challenges (or at least I had to perform specific actions to 'trigger' these, which did spoil my immersion in the world somewhat.

    To give an example, I saw that one of the challenges on the boat mission was to impersonate Norfolk. I got a security guard outfit, hoping to follow him up the ramp and onto the boat, so I hid and staked him out for a very long time. He didn't move. I played around a little more with this and found that it seemed to be proximity to Ritter which would trigger some of his actions, and that once he went up the stairs to the bar area, Norfolk would set off onto the boat. So on another runthrough I went straight for the bar area, and Norfolk ended up moving almost immediately.

    Similarly, whilst trying to get the 'A Slide Mistake' achievement on the airbase, I took the KGB officer uniform and set up the projector. I hung around the target for a while, waiting for him to notice (as he did in a previous runthrough) that the projector was on and waiting for him. However, after several cycles of redacted notes - chess board - noticeboard - cigarette, he didn't seem to be interested, leaving me clueless as to how to get him to the projector without the KGB officer himself in play.

    These are very small gripes in an otherwise stellar experience - I have played each of these probably more than 20 times each. I wonder if there would be a way to play with the scripting so that they are triggered by time rather than the player's actions. I would certainly prefer to know that I had missed an opportunity because I was too slow, than to feel like I was ticking boxes in order to 'run' certain events. Equally, I know that this won't apply to all opportunities. For example, it makes sense to me that Ritter won't go to his office until Norfolk arrives. If I was to take Norfolk out quietly, it would seem odd if Ritter carried on without his business partner. However for some of these opportunities it feels like one often has to go through a slightly forced process, or at least not always a totally obvious one, in order to push over the first domino in the run. I think this is possibly also what RockPaperShotgun allude to in their preview, adding to my concern that this may carry over into the full game.

    I'm not sure if there is an easy fix to this, or whether it is something that we will just get used to over time, but you asked for critical feedback from the Beta, so there it is!

    Good job again guys, in spite of the above it's going to be a very long month waiting for Paris.
    Agree 100%

  10. #10
    I've had no problem with tracking. I'm pretty sure you can change the tracked opportunities via the map screen. Personally I think the Opportunities lay an awful lot out in the open, robbing the player of any potential surprise or discovery. It is a good job they can be toned down or turned off altogether.

    Also, disappointed that once I'd managed to achieve Death by Proxy (I must have turned that projector off about ten times) the KGB officer didn't react at all to the death he had just caused. Even if he'd just dismissed it and ordered a soldier to deal with the body. But nothing. He just wandered off, past the dead chess man.

    It's pretty sweet over all though. Looking forward to more.

  11. #11
    I personally don't care for them much. The challenges give me clues to figure out what to do. I can see their point for new players or folks that just want to experience the game but part of the fun of previous Hitman games is figuring out WHAT you can do. Not being told that you can if that makes sense. I hope its restricted from higher levels of difficulty.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by llliilliilll View Post
    I personally don't care for them much. The challenges give me clues to figure out what to do. I can see their point for new players or folks that just want to experience the game but part of the fun of previous Hitman games is figuring out WHAT you can do. Not being told that you can if that makes sense. I hope its restricted from higher levels of difficulty.
    I agree. It feels too much like being led through a mission instead of figuring it out for yourself. You can disable Opportunities in the Settings menu but if you walk up on an Opportunity, you still get a notification at the bottom of the screen telling you that that dialogue will unlock an Opportunity but you won't be able to track it. Hopefully they'll make it so if you turn Opportunities off you won't get any notifications at all.

  13. #13
    I think it's a nice addition for people who need that kind of help or like to have clues highlighted, but I turned them off as soon as I first encountered them. Only issue so far is that even after turning Opportunities off I was still getting map markers and notifications for them, but I'm guessing that's just for tutorial reasons.

  14. #14
    Opportunities are amazing, but I definitely felt like it gave away far too much information about what to do. Hitman was more about exploration of the scene and figuring out how to take something down. It would be cool if the pictures were locked and instead of giving away the exact words of what you are needing to use, you could put in "???" in their place. For instance, "Tamper with ??? in the ??? disguise".

  15. #15
    Honestly the fact that they give away every scripted kill is pretty horrible in my opinion. Optional or not. If people are too lazy to figure things out for themselves that's one thing, but enabling people to 100% each level without engaging their brains at all just makes a mockery of the principles this series was founded upon.

    I could almost understand it if there was one detailed opportunity per level just to guide less experienced players through first time, with the rest being hidden for people to discover on their own. But as it is you aren't encouraging exploration or experimentation in the slightest. You're catering to two separate types of player, rather than using the gameplay to merge those two types.

    You've got people like me, who have played every game in the series and will likely play this with the opportunity assistance turned off. And then you've got people who will just play through it all with all of the assistance turned on, missing out on everything that makes Hitman great, because you have failed to give them a reason not to. And achievements don't count lol. Someone who hasn't played the series before likely wont know any better.

  16. #16
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    On a side note, the opportunities would still appear even when I set them to off (during the final test). I would get a 'Opportunity revealed' notification if I happened to be near an informative NPC conversation.

  17. #17
    These are definitely a good addition accept for how they're activated. Which currently is when you get near to people who suddenly start talking about 'that ejecter seat needing to be deactivated during safety checks'.

    I think opportunities should be set on a timer/routine basis, where the AI involved will go about their business in a circle, having their conversation with their friend every now and then. Thus revealing the opportunity in more of a random/less scripted fashion.

    The game feels less alive when the two mechanics on the Final Test mission just wait in the car park forever until you walk up to them.

  18. #18
    These are definitely a good addition accept for how they're activated. Which currently is when you get near to people who suddenly start talking about 'that ejecter seat needing to be deactivated during safety checks'.

    I think opportunities should be set on a timer/routine basis, where the AI involved will go about their business in a circle, having their conversation with their friend every now and then. Thus revealing the opportunity in more of a random/less scripted fashion.

    The game feels less alive when the two mechanics on the Final Test mission just wait in the car park forever until you walk up to them.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine27 View Post
    These are definitely a good addition accept for how they're activated. Which currently is when you get near to people who suddenly start talking about 'that ejecter seat needing to be deactivated during safety checks'.

    I think opportunities should be set on a timer/routine basis, where the AI involved will go about their business in a circle, having their conversation with their friend every now and then. Thus revealing the opportunity in more of a random/less scripted fashion.

    The game feels less alive when the two mechanics on the Final Test mission just wait in the car park forever until you walk up to them.
    ^ This is an excellent point, and also scripting things this way could potentially make it very hard to miss stuff, like just wandering around will guarantee you catch(trigger) all the conversations they want you to hear, maybe that sounds strange but I want to miss stuff, I don't want options to just fall into my lap, it's not very satisfying or interesting, rather it be more like being in the right place at the right time, or seeing two people wonder off away for a private conversation (not scripted or triggered by your presence) prompting you to follow and you might over hear something thats POTENTIALLY useful.

    Like within the first 10 seconds of the Final Test I knew I was going to get the target by rigging the jet in some way, not satisfying at all and doubly so as I got a notification upon hearing the conversation confirming that this was in fact a way to take out the target, removing any sense of wonder, basically just felt like being told how to do it. It was fun to go through the safety protocols with him leading to his accident, but would of enjoyed it a lot more if the set up wasn't gift wrapped.

    I had no idea what to do with the projector or what I could do, which was awesome 'cause I liked not knowing, until I looked at the challenges for the first time which spoiled it for me lol before that I had an active interest in finding out how to play that situation out and what would happen, now I know what will happen and have a general sense of how to do it, I really have no motivation to actually do it, other than to tick that box, and really thats not much of a motivation.

  20. #20
    Opportunities feel too triggered.
    Like one person in this thread mentioned how it should be a part of their routine.

    Imagine having to follow guards around until they start revealing information.
    I hate how in the beta it triggers like a tripwire for the opportunity... too much hand holding.

    IOI needs to understand that exploration is half the experience. Hand holding reveals everything
    far too quickly. Too much information is given to us which ruins the fun of experimenting.

  21. #21
    Yeah, I 100% agree with the trigger aspect. A huge part of the immersion was immediately ruined once I realized people only had conversations when you approached them, rather than having them on some sort of independent schedule where you could stumble onto information. At the moment I think that specific aspect is my least favorite part of the game. I know some of the older games had player-triggered conversations too, but they were very uncommon and tended to only be there to flesh out the world or story so it didn't feel super off.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeroroCanti View Post
    Yeah, I 100% agree with the trigger aspect. A huge part of the immersion was immediately ruined once I realized people only had conversations when you approached them, rather than having them on some sort of independent schedule where you could stumble onto information. At the moment I think that specific aspect is my least favorite part of the game. I know some of the older games had player-triggered conversations too, but they were very uncommon and tended to only be there to flesh out the world or story so it didn't feel super off.
    If there's critical info that needs to be conveyed to the player, it'd be much better to have it delivered by talking to NPCs - bartenders, doormen and the like, rather than people artificially starting up strangely relevant conversations when you get near them.

    Also, triggering NPC routines or behaviour just for passing over some invisible line is a big no-no!

  23. #23
    Triggered events would be acceptable on the lowest difficulty setting for casual gamers who are new to the franchise.

    Beyond that it these opportunities should be something we discover upon exploration and observing our environment.

  24. #24
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    Hi everyone.

    The new feature called "Opportunities" is a really great addition to the game with a big potential.

    However like my dear colleagues said above, the structure needs to be tweaked in a freeform mode not depending on us players to be triggered because of our presence in order to launch the script.

    Everything should live on its own wether 47 is here or not (Dialogues, events, actions etc...)

    It makes the game too easy and predictable and far from organic living outside 47. You want a living breathing world? Make it as it doesn't depend on player's presence to be triggered except few cases where it could be logical like in the beta when disguised as the KGB Officer we go see Jasper for the radio call for example. (Is Jasper Knight an easter egg to Jesper Kyd? Because I immediately thought about that when I saw the target's name lol)

    You should put in a place a sort of timer in npcs and target planned routines and behaviors changes depending on your impact during their routine causing them to change but not the need to be here to lauch a script waiting after us, blocking the target in a predetermined area.

    Also a lot less hand holding about them would be welcome. Don't ruin us the fun of exploration and discovery please.

    I think IO you were probably afraid of players not watching or listening to everything. It's maybe why you made such a decision to implement triggering system, maybe. Don't worry replayability is here for that.
    Thanks. Cheers!
    Last edited by Shahyd; 15th Feb 2016 at 03:19.

  25. #25
    ^^^ Agreed.

    Triggered events feels like running around a map pushing buttons to activate a task.
    Locations should have a steady flow, and have loops --- basically "Curtains Down" summarizes all of this.

    The point with loops is to create a mental calculation and plan our movements with the flow of the location.
    Hitman has always been about timing our footsteps with the NPCs... the beta completely took that away.

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