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Thread: Nosgoth - Class Warfare: Beastmaster

Nosgoth - Class Warfare: Beastmaster

  1. #1

    Nosgoth - Class Warfare: Beastmaster

    With so much speculation surrounding the Beastmaster and how he'll play, particularly with regards to his Treshawk form, we figured the best way to clear things up would be to simply show you. You've been asking to see the Beastmaster in action and here he is, hot off the presses!

    Presenting, the Beastmaster:

    For those wondering when they can get their hands on Nosgoth's next class, we published an update about that yesterday. You can read the full details here, but the tl;dr version is that we've got a few more bugs to crush, and a bit more polish to apply to the update as a whole before it'll be ready to be sent to your PCs. The update won't be sent out this week, but it shouldn't be too long before you get your hands on the Beastmaster.
    Square Enix Europe Community Manager
    Square Enix Europe Community : Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch

  2. #2
    Wow, I really, really can't wait to play him now.

    He looks gamechanging, which makes me half excited, half worried. Just the ability to get anywhere on the map...

    Love the shenanigans with the nature's fury ability as well.

    Gimme.

  3. #3
    The class looks really cool.
    From the charge and recharge indicators in the video I estimate Treshawk form has about 12 seconds duration and 12 seconds cooldown, however it's unclear whether canceling the form early will reduce the cooldown like Vanguard's Bulwark.

    Also the reloading mechanic of his shotgun apparently allows reloading 1 shot (shell?) at a time - similar to Alchemist's cannons.

    Last but not least the Leyline buff seems to be 50% increase even though the tooltip misleadingly states it is 150% so it won't be game-brakingly OP.

  4. #4
    Hmm, a human class with a complete freedom of movement makes harassing vampires a lot easier.



    This could add some balance.

  5. #5
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    I am both excited to play him and terrified to fight him, vamps are gonna get wrecked so hard at release. I have a hard time trying to rationalize why I'd ever need to play the other human classes ever again.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    I am both excited to play him and terrified to fight him, vamps are gonna get wrecked so hard at release. I have a hard time trying to rationalize why I'd ever need to play the other human classes ever again.
    I know the first panel doesn't really apply here, but the rest...

    (click image to enlarge)
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #7
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    RIP Vampires...

    I love the idea, but I believe it will be hell-o-OP
    Also.. I don't think it was smart to release it during a ranked season.. just saying.

  8. #8
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    @Vampmaster, Let's hope it doesn't take a new class to bring it back for the vamps; but I still look forward to the Rahabim and nice comic .

    @Da_Wolv, I keep think that if we are able to attack the bird that it might not be so harsh. Give it a damage threshold that turns it back into a human and/or allow special abilities to affect it. Allow us to pounce or kidnap/abduct the bird, with it turning back into a human on contact; and maybe allow us to DM the bird, then either deliver it to our teammates or allow us to send it as high as possible so there is a sizable fall damage when it turns back into a human.

    Edit
    Also, did anyone else notice a skin is missing? I know I saw it in the other video, what is lore behind that one? I also only counted three weapon variants when there are usually five, what are the other two?
    Last edited by GenFeelGood; 11th Feb 2016 at 19:11.

  9. #9
    New meta:
    4 beastmaster vs 4 sent

  10. #10
    I am more excited for the Beastmaster than I have been for any of the other classes that have been released. Well done Psyonix, but now the bar has been raised really high, and I'm expecting great things for the Rahabim. I sadly predict and series of nerfs will be incoming shortly after the Beastmaster's release. Hopefully they won't overdo it this time, like they did with the Summoner and Vanguard.

  11. #11
    Just watching the vid the inital thought that springs to mind is OP AS HELL.

    Birdy form can use abilities capale of doing damage mid air compaired to a senti chasing it which cant do anything to do damage, unless abduct/kidnap work on it mid air (good luck getting the aiming/timing on that right...)
    Game changing is right, and atm not sure if it's in a good way or a bad way..

  12. #12
    Looks crazy OP.

    I predict he will get nerfed quickly and then become all but useless. Like Reavers. Against great players vamps won't stand a chance.

  13. #13
    Looks awesome but I must mirror the concerns already expressed in this thread. I agree BeastMaster looks to good to remain unnerfed and we haven't even played it yet.

    Intial thoughts from first impression.
    Transformation time seems too fast, too easy to use as an escape (although I understand thats the intention).
    No human has an escape such as this and to top it off it can be weaponised in conjunction with an air attack.

    If he takes more damage when transforming, then it may be a bit more balanced as that should be his most vulnerable point.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by SonixSquad

    Intial thoughts from first impression.
    Transformation time seems too fast, too easy to use as an escape (although I understand thats the intention).
    No human has an escape such as this and to top it off it can be weaponised in conjunction with an air attack.

    If he takes more damage when transforming, then it may be a bit more balanced as that should be his most vulnerable point.
    Thats my biggest fear, too.

    1) There needs to be a REAL cooldown for shapeshifting. If you go up on a building, you should be stuck there for at least 15s, if not 25. If you go up high, you better make sure you can afford it. Otherwise beastmaster will just out..fly enemy vampires forever.

    2) The Sprint Perk for Scout is already bad enough, but if the Beastmaster can just literally avoid all damage by staying in the air for the duration of his Beast Form, then thats even worse.

    3) The transformation should be cancelled when being hit and it should take a bit longer. If you can get some distance between you and vamps and you will be outmatched, thats fine; but if people can just shapeshift and fly away with 3 HP just before they die... nope!

    4) How, if at all, be Vampires be able to get him out of the sky? Will Sentinels trump the Raptor - meaning, can Sentinels grab Raptors and turn them back into Humans? How about grabbing him with throw? Will any damage cancel flight? Abyssal Bolt Sniping?

  15. #15
    I'm sure they've already tested it at least a bit in studio, but they won't know exactly what adjustments to make until it's out there. It doesn't seem like the type of studio/budget that has hundred of testers to play for months while they perfect it. It will get balanced soon enough, but there's not much point in guessing without having even played it.

    Maybe someone could ask how many testers they actually have in the Q&A? I've used all my questions though.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  16. #16
    The problem with the beastmasters desgin is he is highly mobile. in a game of ranged vs melee the usaul desgin is to go with is to give the ranged high dps and heavy firepower and give the melee classes high mobilty or tankiness .

    in nosgoths case vampires have the abilty to scale walls and get across rooftops (or fly) in order to close the distance then use various mobility skills in order to close the rest of the distance.
    The problem with the beastmaster is he looks like he completely negates this mobilty advantage the vampires have and to top it all off he is one of the better humans at close range.

    The only class i can see standing a chance against him is maybe a sentinel because its the only vamp able to match his mobility

  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    I'm sure they've already tested it at least a bit in studio, but they won't know exactly what adjustments to make until it's out there. It doesn't seem like the type of studio/budget that has hundred of testers to play for months while they perfect it. It will get balanced soon enough, but there's not much point in guessing without having even played it.
    All the more reason not to release it during a ranked season.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    Thats my biggest fear, too.

    1) There needs to be a REAL cooldown for shapeshifting. If you go up on a building, you should be stuck there for at least 15s, if not 25. If you go up high, you better make sure you can afford it. Otherwise beastmaster will just out..fly enemy vampires forever.
    Actually thats a very good point. Sure you can fly but I doubt fall damage has been removed which means you need to plan your flight trip well (if flight timer runs out mid-air, you transform back and drop?) or risk getting stuck on a roof and vulnerable to climbing predators whilst awaiting your shapeshift cooldown.


    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    2) The Sprint Perk for Scout is already bad enough, but if the Beastmaster can just literally avoid all damage by staying in the air for the duration of his Beast Form, then thats even worse.
    The first thing that came to mind in terms of team layout, grapple scout + beastmaster. Roof domination.

    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    4) How, if at all, be Vampires be able to get him out of the sky? Will Sentinels trump the Raptor - meaning, can Sentinels grab Raptors and turn them back into Humans? How about grabbing him with throw? Will any damage cancel flight? Abyssal Bolt Sniping?
    Originally Posted by Halpachino
    The only class i can see standing a chance against him is maybe a sentinel because its the only vamp able to match his mobility
    Sure is going to be interesting finding out! Sentinel seems the most obvious counter.
    Last edited by SonixSquad; 11th Feb 2016 at 23:55.
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  19. #19
    Originally Posted by kLauE187
    New meta:
    4 beastmaster vs 4 sent
    If nobody arranges for a screenshot of four treshawks harassing Raziel's statue in The Fane, I will be very disappointed.

    Overall, awesome video. Looks like it'll take some definite balancing though.
    Can't wait though. Shotgun class is my jam.

    But if no Dark Eden map eventually comes, this whole class is just a cruel tease.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    If nobody arranges for a screenshot of four treshawks harassing Raziel's statue in The Fane, I will be very disappointed.

    Overall, awesome video. Looks like it'll take some definite balancing though.
    Can't wait though. Shotgun class is my jam.

    But if no Dark Eden map eventually comes, this whole class is just a cruel tease.
    I think we need one more vampire territory so we're at four each and then Dark Eden after that. Everything in the lore points Dark Eden being a human territory. I keep thinking of the DE tower being like in one episode of Doctor Who where, as he puts it "the bigger on the inside starts to leak out". It could look really strange like all the rooms had been flung out and rubble partly buried, since that happens after many centuries.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  21. #21
    Meta will be something like 2 scouts, 2 beastmasters. Beastmasters will scout and harass with Wrath of the Firebird protected by long shots from scouts. Scouts may use grappling hook or not. Both scouts AND beastmasters have a stun and knockback on demand and great damage. Beastmaster has on demand large AoE damage with an air-burst Nature's Fury and can annihilate illusions and ghouls with his main weapon much easier than the alchemist could ever hope to without using Light Bomb. War Bows might be really tough to deal with.

    What's with all the close range human specialists? What can be expected to seen on the vampire side?
    Last edited by TheDreamcrusher; 12th Feb 2016 at 04:22. Reason: tone of post

  22. #22
    can you state those who checked bm and approved?

  23. #23
    It's very interesting to see all of this theory crafting taking place.

    As some of you have already highlighted, the Beastmaster introduces the potential for quite a considerable shift in Nosgoth's meta. It's going to take players and teams a while to adjust to this as a result. Try to keep an open mind as to how you both play, and counter, the Beastmaster upon his first release. It's probably going to take at least two weeks before the majority of players start to adapt to his introduction (it'll be faster for many of you, I know).

    A few of you have asked whether or not it's possible to attack him while in his Treshawk form. You can indeed. One thing to point out is that the Treshawk doesn't move quite as fast as you might think. I've managed to land a Savage Pounce onto one, and have had an Air Strike take me out while in bird form (it hit me from behind). I haven't seen a successful abduction attempt(the Treshawk is a fairly nimble fellow), so I'm afraid I can't comment on that atm.

    The Beastmaster is absolutely going to shake things up, and during his initial release window it may seem like you're being killed by him a lot more often than other classes (as everyone is trying to figure him out and seeing if he's their new favorite Human). I would say, give him a chance. Give it a bit of time for the maelstrom of madness to settle down, and people to shift back to choosing the class that's more suitable for the situation at hand. Everyone's extremely excited to try him out, so you're going to see him a fair bit initially. I know I can't wait to try him in the wild .

    Oh, and as for who tests the Beastmaster internally. Most, if not all, of the people working on the game have played him at least a couple of times and provided feedback where appropriate. Obviously a designer's input on balance is going to carry much more weight than the opinions of someone in marketing though.
    Square Enix Europe Community Manager
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  24. #24
    Originally Posted by Oghamsmith
    It's very interesting to see all of this theory crafting taking place.

    As some of you have already highlighted, the Beastmaster introduces the potential for quite a considerable shift in Nosgoth's meta. It's going to take players and teams a while to adjust to this as a result. Try to keep an open mind as to how you both play, and counter, the Beastmaster upon his first release. It's probably going to take at least two weeks before the majority of players start to adapt to his introduction (it'll be faster for many of you, I know).

    A few of you have asked whether or not it's possible to attack him while in his Treshawk form. You can indeed. One thing to point out is that the Treshawk doesn't move quite as fast as you might think. I've managed to land a Savage Pounce onto one, and have had an Air Strike take me out while in bird form (it hit me from behind). I haven't seen a successful abduction attempt(the Treshawk is a fairly nimble fellow), so I'm afraid I can't comment on that atm.

    The Beastmaster is absolutely going to shake things up, and during his initial release window it may seem like you're being killed by him a lot more often than other classes (as everyone is trying to figure him out and seeing if he's their new favorite Human). I would say, give him a chance. Give it a bit of time for the maelstrom of madness to settle down, and people to shift back to choosing the class that's more suitable for the situation at hand. Everyone's extremely excited to try him out, so you're going to see him a fair bit initially. I know I can't wait to try him in the wild .

    Oh, and as for who tests the Beastmaster internally. Most, if not all, of the people working on the game have played him at least a couple of times and provided feedback where appropriate. Obviously a designer's input on balance is going to carry much more weight than the opinions of someone in marketing though.
    I was mostly asking how many people are involved in testing than who does it. If it's only a small number, I'd say it's unreasonable to expect it to be completely balanced bug free right from the start.

    "Maelstrom of Madness" - So who gets that ability.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  25. #25
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    I wondered if there are/going to be different skins for the Treshawk? I really want a purple one!

    He looks well cool, definitely going to bring some mayhem to the game. I can’t wait to give him a try!...and spend the other half of my time running away screaming like a girl.

    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    If nobody arranges for a screenshot of four treshawks harassing Raziel's statue in The Fane, I will be very disappointed.
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