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Thread: League Beta 5.0 is Live!

League Beta 5.0 is Live!

  1. #1

    League Beta 5.0 is Live!


    Taking the best of League season testing to date and wrapping it up into one solid package, you won’t want to miss League beta 5.0!

    What is a League Beta?
    Want to see how your Nosgoth skills compare to the rest of the world? Like winning profile borders, keys, skins and maybe even cash prizes? Then Nosgoth Leagues are for you! Here, your skills will be put to the test as you face some of the stiffest competition to be found across the world of Nosgoth. Compare your prowess to the rest in the world via global rankings, or maybe just focus on beating your friends. That one friend who insists he could 1v1 you but never takes you up on your challenge? With Leagues, you can get a good idea of whether or not he’s blowing hot air.

    During the League Beta, we are trialing different League configurations, to see which work the best, and which you guys like the most; before moving into the fully live Nosgoth Leagues Season 1 (as opposed to Nosgoth Leagues Beta).


    League Beta 5.0:
    Picking the best parts of Leagues Beta seasons to date, 5.0 pulls everything together into a pretty strong package. This season will utilise the following format:

    • 24/7 League – There are no limitations to League play times, compete whenever you want!
    • 4v4 – While 5v5 TDM was very warmly received, 4v4 is where the heart of competitive Nosgoth lays.
    • Max Party Size 2 – Grab a friend and jump onto the battlefield
    • 1 Month Duration – Season 5.0 will last for approximately 1 month - Starting on February 1st and running until the 29th of February (inclusive)
    • Age – Not for little Humans: As Nosgoth is a mature game, participants must of course be at least 18 years of age to play and compete.
    • Terms and Conditions - You can check out the Terms & Conditions HERE, you must agree to these terms in-game in order to be eligible for prizing.


    The Spoils of War
    Featuring a new $10,000 prize pool for the season, League Beta 5.0 retains the same prize structure as years gone by. Whether you want to climb to the mightiest heights of the Eternal tier, or simply fight through the Leagues while having a good time with friends, we've got you covered. Cash prizing will be distributed in the following fashion:


    (click image to enlarge)

    This season’s Blood tier prize is an exclusive weapon for the forthcoming Beastmaster class. Going by the name "Hunter's Gold", most successful Beastmasters melt down the armour of vanquished enemies and use it to gild their weapons, showing off their prowess to others.


    (click image to enlarge)


    Join the fight today!
    Signing up to the League is as simple as loading up Nosgoth, getting to at least level 10; and agreeing to the League Terms and Conditions (if you haven’t done so during previous League Beta seasons). With that done, you’ll want to jump into League matches to start racking up those points and climbing the leaderboard.

    FAQ
    How will monetary prizes be delivered?

    PayPal will be the primary method, although those who cannot use PayPal will be able to provide us with your bank account details.

    We’re working in conjunction with the fine folks over at ESL to get the monetary prizes to the top 100 players. You’ll receive an email from Square Enix once the season is over with further steps to take.

    When will I receive my prize?
    All in-game prizing is typically delivered approximately a week after the season ends.

    Cash prizes take approximately one and a half months to deliver. This is to provide ESL with enough time to contact you for the account details into which your winnings will be sent, and the processing of the payments to take place.

    Where is Sonic Boom, my League Beat 4.0 prize?
    Sonic Boom will be released alongside Nosgoth's next game update !
    Last edited by Oghamsmith; 1st Feb 2016 at 23:12.
    Square Enix Europe Community Manager
    Square Enix Europe Community : Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch

  2. #2
    Weapon skin looks nice and the Beastmaster even better Will it be on the stock weapon?

    On a side note, this league will run till 2nd or 3rd of March right?

  3. #3
    add option to remove league banners from inventory!!

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by toothman666
    Weapon skin looks nice and the Beastmaster even better Will it be on the stock weapon?

    On a side note, this league will run till 2nd or 3rd of March right?
    Hi there! Glad you like the first glimpse that you get of the Beastmaster. No, the regular version of that weapon is not the Beastmaster's stock shotgun, so it's a doubly nice little bonus . I should note that the skin being used in the image for the Beastmaster himself is not his default skin. His default skin is very much like the concept art that we recently showed in the end of Jan State of Play.

    The Season runs through until the 29th of Feb .

    Originally Posted by senjuj
    add option to remove league banners from inventory!!
    How many do you have?
    Square Enix Europe Community Manager
    Square Enix Europe Community : Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch

  5. #5
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    So does this mean we will be playing the new class before the end of the month?

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    So does this mean we will be playing the new class before the end of the month?
    That would be the logical conclusion to draw from that. Now; the question must be asked...are we that logical?
    Square Enix Europe Community Manager
    Square Enix Europe Community : Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch

  7. #7
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    FANTASTIC!, This year just keeps getting better and better.

    On a side note, are you open to hearing suggestions for alternative names to Beastmaster?

  8. #8
    When the "blood" prizes 4.0 will be delivered?

  9. #9
    If the gold weapon is the only prize, can you please include a PFX to go with it? And add said effect to the other gold weapons we got in the founder's packs. The gold weapons seem REALLY dull otherwise. They, along with many other rare weapons currently can't even have stat upgrades in the forge. Make it have gold sparks coming off or something.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    FANTASTIC!, This year just keeps getting better and better.

    On a side note, are you open to hearing suggestions for alternative names to Beastmaster?
    Always pleased to make you happy! With that said, we're sticking with Beastmaster as the name for this class.

    Originally Posted by LaPineda
    When the "blood" prizes 4.0 will be delivered?
    With the next game update .

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    If the gold weapon is the only prize, can you please include a PFX to go with it? And add said effect to the other gold weapons we got in the founder's packs. The gold weapons seem REALLY dull otherwise. They, along with many other rare weapons currently can't even have stat upgrades in the forge. Make it have gold sparks coming off or something.
    Interesting, I think the gold weapons look fairly good. I'm playing on maxed out settings. Perhaps that has something to do with it, are you playing on lower settings?
    Square Enix Europe Community Manager
    Square Enix Europe Community : Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Oghamsmith
    Interesting, I think the gold weapons look fairly good. I'm playing on maxed out settings. Perhaps that has something to do with it, are you playing on lower settings?
    Mid-settings, I think. I mean they look ok when you're stood still and nothing's happening, but you don't normally notice them unless you're actively looking for them and definitely not other people's when there's lots going on in battle. Also, people don't really use the gold weapons because they can't put stats on them. When I said 'dull', I also meant unexciting relative to previous prizes as well as not showing up.

    What was the rare effect that was made for the league version of Sonic Boom? I assume a new one was made especially for that or did you mean a random one of the already existing effects? If it's a brand new one, perhaps that could be added to the gold weapons? Or maybe you could just let us upgrade the gold weapons to mysterious once the the forge is capable of that .

    Also, do you know when the 5v5 banners will be ready?
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 1st Feb 2016 at 19:38.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  12. #12
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    Oh yey.. another banner I can't delete -.-

    Also, yey... ranked..

    I guess we#re doing this again..

  13. #13
    Is the intent of this league just to be filler while simultaneously testing the beastmaster?

  14. #14
    I clicked on this thread, took a look at that Beastmaster skin and though "Holy cow we're getting a pretty cool skin this time around!" I was quite disappointed to later realize that the skin was not the prize, the golden shotgun was. Time to start grinding to blood league again... (seems a bit soon to me, a little more time between leagues may help prevent players from getting burned out with Nosgoth)

    Kind of disappointed to hear that the team isn't open to suggestions to change the name of the Beastmaster. I just sounds kind of tacky. I'm still hoping that he has other abilities to indicate that he is actual a master of beasts (turning into a bird doesn't quite cut it). Can't wait for his release.

  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Gugulug5000
    I'm still hoping that he has other abilities to indicate that he is actual a master of beasts (turning into a bird doesn't quite cut it). Can't wait for his release.
    I'm kind of excited at the possibility of flying in both rounds; but I'm also hoping that he also turns into something you'd consider beastly (maybe a bear or wolf). He surely has an alternative and I can't wait to learn what it is.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    I'm kind of excited at the possibility of flying in both rounds; but I'm also hoping that he also turns into something you'd consider beastly (maybe a bear or wolf). He surely has an alternative and I can't wait to learn what it is.
    Possibly as a future ability addition? Who knows. However my understanding of BeastMaster is someone who can handle beasts, a tamer & keeper of sorts. It doesn't have to mean someone who can turn into beasts although that sounds fun.

    New map is awesome, nice to have some fresh killing grounds and being a player who loves the Prophet, can't wait to get into some close quarters BLAM in your face action!!

    Perhaps consider updating the Ranked banners with finalised league placements and colours?
    Other than that keep up the good work!
    signature image
    aka: Hellsonix / LeMMy

  17. #17
    I have something like 6 league banners, 1 each league ... is there the possibility to change a little every league banner, for example adding the number of the league series?

  18. #18
    The banner slightly resembles the a variation of wheel of fate symbol that shows up in the main LOK series. What if it slowly morphs into that with each series. As if it's gradually being taken over by the Elder God? It also resembles the warp gates from the Vampire Citadel in Defiance (the red spiral dots that you have to light up) and Kain's jump symbol from BO2. I don't know if anything can be done with that.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 2nd Feb 2016 at 11:51.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  19. #19
    Hey everyone, I'd like to share my feedback about leagues at last. Just to kindle a bit of discussion
    Most of the ideas are almost the same as when I came up with my initial feedback on the first league tests back in summer. I have let them mature through the test of time (half a year+ is more than enough) before posting, so here's another Wall-of-Text of mine!

    1) Misguidance of the Leagues "mode".

    A. The essence of the mode. In my opinion, the biggest problem with the leagues, the root of all ongoing frustrations lies in the lack of essence of this mode and the wrong expectations set.
    What do we know about it, whats the idea behind it?
    Officially "Our League feature is a season-based ranking system" [Dev post].
    Basically its a copy/pasted shard of TDM basic mode we always had, but 'for more competitive players'. The novelty here is the ladder ranking system and a few technical tweaks, like not letting any replacements for leavers.
    Its NOT a new game mode. It does not feature any new rules or any new game structures except this ranking+score value you have. Ok, so what about the 'competitive players' orientation?
    - Not being put in an ongoing game and this nontransparently calculated non-zero-sum score value (you can actually get points when you lose!). That 'for more competetive players' statement works exactly the same way as when you make some puzzle game on IOS/Android and later add a leaderboard to it. Beware, its for more competitive players now, your average casual player might not handle it now, you know. Except the leaderboard is sorted not by puzzle completion time, but by time spent in game!

    B. The Money.
    There's also a big sack of money thrown out each leagues season, but it works the same crude way as if you throw it out in a public place - it will breed some sort of competetiveness, sure, quite a few will have their noses broken for a few banknotes. But what will people have with them in the end? Each one having spent significant time participating in an unequal nontransparent and not entertaining in itself metacompetition, chosen few will get compensated with money and most will end up despondent and frustrated.
    What adds up to the frustration is that the major feedback on that issue is explicitly ignored. What I've said above is not new, even the top skilled players capable of breaking quite a few noses - the direct beneficiaries here - have shared their critisism and concerns and so had enough responsibility to effectively vote against money raining on their heads. (Kudos to you, people!)

    C. Nosgoth game systems reinforcement ?
    Another facet here is that the chosen reward/distribution system doesn't reinforce any game systems meaningfuly and does not appear to be thoughtout enough. Apart from some of the specific limitations (timerestricted and competetive) its incredibly inferior to XP system that feeds directly from scoreboard (a + for all those people who want their personal performance to count), is transparent, is tied nicely with monetisation with XP and MI drop boosters and converts itself into a good progression and 'bragging rights' system (btw why not remove the max level cap?).
    On the other hand the League system complements the core game systems as elegantly as explosives complement fishbait. I beg pardon for my screaming analogy, but I just cannot see how it is the best way to handle 'solo competetiveness' or 'casual competetiveness' or even 'marketing' (any other points I'm missing?). I'm okay with it being inferior at some iteration, but we haven't seen any changes to the system except that hidden bonus points pool distributions for that whole half a year+ (party size is an input factor, not a part of the system itself in that regard). I have the feeling that this exact system IS perceived as 'likely best' and 'to-stay' by developers and so my critisism holds ground.


    2) I believe Leagues should not be a separate game mode!

    Everything the League does now can be done through one 'Team Deathmatch' button. There is little justification for splitting the playerbase in 2 parts with such a superficial 'Mode'.
    Matchmaking due to low playerbase has always been Nosgoth's biggest problem, you need really strong reasons if you are to exacerbate it.
    [Separate ranked mode is all welcome when the playerbase is plentiful]



    Just a few specific examples on how ranking/leaderboard can be added without a separate Mode:

    - Seasonal ranking – just a 'League' button near 'Home' or 'Armory' button on top. All the data is fetched from 'TDM' game mode. By default it would work exactly the same as it did in season 4.0 – party up with up to 4 people as you've always done in TDM.

    - Lobbies/nododging – at least 3 ways to do it:
    1) Hide lobbies as we have it now in Leagues (worst option – lobbydodging and no bannershow)
    2) Hide lobbies + Remove the 10 second countdown (no banners but we dont even need the launcher to fight lobbydodging)
    3) Apply leaver penalty to League score when abandoning lobby (only league score, not timeout penalty). Best option! No lobbydodging, no desktop launcher needed, banners and lobbychat functional. Also nonleague casual TDM players can still leave 'tryhard premade' lobbies they dont like suffering the penalty they dont care much about (instead of leaving at start of game as they would do with hidden lobbies).

    - Party limit by developers. It is implementable if needed and in a better sense imo.
    Say, its party limit of 2. It would work as it did with duo leagues before, except now you could queue with 4-party in a separate queue with a prompt warning that your league stats would not get updated (if Psyonix chose so as a rule for the season) and 'wait time could be significantly longer'. The difference here is that your 4-party would not be straight out forbidden to queue and that you would not be matched with compositions of solo and duo players then (and thats good for everyone). Thats like a soft baby-version of what SonixSquad had offered numerious times


    3) Now that I'm done with the stronger points central to league discussion, I would also like to throw a few 'subjective' ones.

    With the needlessness of a separate League mode argued above I want to add my thoughts on the prize structure.

    There are two factors the devs want to reward judging by the league concept as we have it now – 'activity' and 'competitiveness'(skill). I strongly believe that those are not the same in their nature and that they should be treated differently.
    Activity is better rewarded with nonmaterial rewards that have some status to them and can be shown off like skins, rare or even limited edition items etc. Competetiveness on the other hand corresponds extremely well to material rewards (you have to get RL value to substitute that RL value you miss not going out on that Sunday when you decide to take part in an ESL tournament). Rewarding activity with $ is in essence turning a game into a job and kills the passion/addiction in the end. Rewarding competetiveness with exclusive symbols breeds frustrations among the high activity devoted playerbase who can't jump above their skill/abilities level. Making them nonexclusive and purchasable, in turn, devalues them.
    In short, reward high activity with status, symbols and ingame stuff, reward high skill with cash prizes.

    Also I really think that regarding the $ prizes transparency and controlled environment are REALLY important. ESL brackets and game results are transparent and Wire adds some control.
    Ingame rankings and scores are a good tool to give out ingame stuff, ESL is the proper tool to give out the cash.

    If Psyonix wants more people to reach the cash prizes then work should be done to motivate and smoothen the transition to ESL, but not moving the cash down where it can be reached through ingame manipulation and such. A nice short 'how-to' guide with direct links on the 'ESL' ad we have ingame and also available on nosgoth.com would be really helpful!
    Small symbolical prizes for simply taking part (not necessarily runestones but even gold or enchantable items) for lower tier casual tournaments would help the registration and entry of new people.

    Also I still hate the region merging Personally I am ready to wait any extra period of time to play an EU match instead of a NAm match. Or even not to play and make a break if there are none. Why let us choose region for 'casual' TDM games and derive us that in 'competetive' Ranked ones (where ping and performance is more important)? I wish to have the choice.
    Last edited by Farnbeak; 4th Feb 2016 at 14:02. Reason: Clarification

  20. #20
    All fantastic points Farnbeak. Really hit the nail on the head. The only other critique of leagues I can think of is the matchmaking. It puts players who are level 15 with 10 hours experience who are bronze 5 against players who are level 50 with 2000 hours in eternal (who usually exclusively group with similarly experienced players). This is so incredibly far from balanced and far from competitive it is laughable. It feels like a chore to play ranked because of all of these discrepancies long expressed by many players. It's easy to get to eternal if you have enough time to spare for it, but any responsible person has a full time job and other priorities. It's a chore enough to get to blood. It is no testament to skill in order to reach these ranks. Literally just a matter of time. This is not the case for games with well established ranked like league of legends. I can hit platinum in LoL very easily using my very limited down time and that game's matchmaking is actually competitive. It makes no sense as it stands now to even call leagues in Nosgoth competitive.
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  21. #21
    Thank you, Equanimityjohn

    Everything you said above is true for me as well.
    I did not count matchmaking as a part of Leagues system for my analysis, but its a matter of perspective. Matchmaking is what affects the results of matches regardless of mode and so its a major 'input factor' for the Leagues. Fixing it is very desirable but doesnt fix the flawed League design and vice versa. In the end both are necessary.

    Matchmaking is definitely flawed somewhat beyond the 'low player count' reason.
    Its systematic like a random pub lobby yesterday (no 3-4 premades on any of the sides) having exactly 3 top MMR players end up shuffled in one team where all of the other players had open profiles with 50-150 hours. 36-5 result.
    The day before yesterday I duo-queued in TDM at late-day normal playercount time. It was a 31-0 match, where no one on the other vamp team could be blamed for specifically feeding or going nonstop solo, no leavers either. Tbh its rare to have those 'flawless' matches but they still happen.
    But I really feel repetative telling those stories, forum is full of those as is every Nosgoth player's memory

    The sytematic flaw notion also comes from the confidence (aquired with time) that my human meatbrain works better at predicting match results than Nosgoth's MM algorithm. I may reassess that very soon for unknown player lobbies, since the introduction of Nosg.launcher has made 'hours played' stat in profiles largely irrelevant.
    Last edited by Farnbeak; 3rd Feb 2016 at 08:26.

  22. #22
    Thank you for taking the time to think about & write that up Farnbeak.
    I pretty much agree with everything you have stated.
    I actually never thought about the Normal TDM and Ranked Leagues being a split but you are right. That in itself is already an unnecessary split when all we need is a League stats tab as you have stated.

    I would add to this some sort of display indicating how many duos and quad premades teams were currently queued as an indication of current activity and viability of getting a 4 man v 4 man premade match.
    signature image
    aka: Hellsonix / LeMMy

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by Farnbeak
    B. The Money.
    - yeah, almost everyone agrees on this

    2) I believe Leagues should not be a separate game mode!
    Disagree. Every game I play has separate ranked and unranked mode. It's because people want to decide when they play for points and when they don't. You want ranked modes to be different so you can enforce "responsibility" for the matches (leaver penalties, no hotjoining etc), but you always want to have a mode where results don't matter. Soon you'll also want to have a place to do challenges in.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by Ysanoire
    - yeah, almost everyone agrees on this



    Disagree. Every game I play has separate ranked and unranked mode. It's because people want to decide when they play for points and when they don't. You want ranked modes to be different so you can enforce "responsibility" for the matches (leaver penalties, no hotjoining etc), but you always want to have a mode where results don't matter. Soon you'll also want to have a place to do challenges in.
    I agree they should stay separate. It would put off a lot of players if they were expected to play at the same level of skill as those who do so for a living. It takes an awful lot of time to reach that level of skill and regular TDM would be needed to practice far beyond the new recruit level. I maxed out my player level a year ago and still don't stand a chance in eternal. I'm stuck playing my best classes (Alchemist and Deceiver) just to keep up in league and I know I'm not the only one. I normally stop once I reach Blood for the in-game prize and go back to TDM to use the other classes an play with my friends.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  25. #25
    Could one of the devs PLEASE for the love of god sit down at the office and spend 3 minutes of your precious time removing the 10 second countdown before match starts in leagues!?

    I'M SICK OF NOT GETTING A GAME FOR HOURS ON END BECAUSE PEOPLE LEAVE DURING THE COUNTDOWN BECAUSE THEY SPOT MY NAME IN THE LOBBY THROUGH STEAM OVERLAY!

    You've had 5 months to fix this issue and hundreds of people telling you that it's broken and you haven't bothered when you could fix the problem by changing ONE DAMN VARIABLE in your code!
    Last edited by Bazielim; 4th Feb 2016 at 07:53.

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