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Thread: True widescreen support for Soul Reaver 1

  1. #26
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    Thanks. I also thought about kain2.arg, but I do not find such option in the list. But I found the option -NOPUPPETSHOWS and tried it (train 1 -mainmenu -voice -nopuppetshows). It also not worked.
    But I remembered about another realization of the option "Skip All Puppet Shows" - when we loaded save, early viewed cutscenes are not played again, so it is enough to find the appropriate game-address and just to change the value in it to the last one.
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  2. #27
    Hi, is there any progress in this???

  3. #28
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    Nope.
    As I understand, Vampmaster now is more interesting in Nosgoth, and I now is more interesting in testing existing improvements that SE officially add to their own product - Final Fantasy 8 (from 1999 year: graphical improvements + modifications of game-files + additional launcher + support of Steam overlay + very cool achievements + using Steam-cloud + interaction with SE-forum through Steam-account + even adding (officially) Game Boosters - the same feature I usually like to add for some games).
    Very impressive, in my opinion. In comparison with lazy CD-team.

    P.S.: hm, it seems that at this moment FF8 has sufficiently more fans than all LOK-games together (may be excepting Nosgoth).
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by wrace0 View Post
    Nope.
    As I understand, Vampmaster now is more interesting in Nosgoth, and I now is more interesting in testing existing improvements that SE officially add to their own product - Final Fantasy 8 (from 1999 year: graphical improvements + modifications of game-files + additional launcher + support of Steam overlay + very cool achievements + using Steam-cloud + interaction with SE-forum through Steam-account + even adding (officially) Game Boosters - the same feature I usually like to add for some games).
    Very impressive, in my opinion. In comparison with lazy CD-team.

    P.S.: hm, it seems that at this moment FF8 has sufficiently more fans than all LOK-games together (may be excepting Nosgoth).
    Nosgoth is (was) one of my interests, but it's not the reason I stopped working on this. I have many projects related to all of the LOK series and only have time to look at one at a time. I was having no luck with the widescreen fix, so I moved back to investigating the SR2 file format for ModelEx. I'm getting stuck with that too, so I might move back on to patching the deleted reavers and pillar glyphs into SR2. I also spent some time adding BO2 support to Soul Spiral. It all depends on what I have time for and what I'm least frustrated with.

    I've never done any work on FF8 and don't have any plans to.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 13th Apr 2016 at 10:54.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  5. #30
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    I said about FF8 just as example of the old game with the same publisher as LOK (SE), but for the Steam-version of this game developer made enough efforts for that fans have the perfect version of the game without any glitches and with using all Steam-features.
    This game is not needed any improvements at this moment.
    Early I also did some research and improvements and for FF8 too, but with such version of this game that I saw on Steam, I just deleted all my fixes and patches as unuseful anymore.
    This is just example of developers that love their game in the same manner as fans of this game.
    And it is the big difference in comparison with efforts (lack of them) of Crystal Dynamics for old LOK-games.
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrace0 View Post
    And it is the big difference in comparison with efforts (lack of them) of Crystal Dynamics for old LOK-games.
    You are forgetting about one detail. Square-Enix is first of all a publisher and a rights holder. Crystal Dynamics is owned by SE and they have no independence. They can't do whatever they want - they can only do what SE tells them to do. So if you want to blame someone for the current technical state of PC version of Soul Reaver then you should blame someone that actually has a right to do anything about it - and that's Square-Enix.

  7. #32
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    I do not forget nothing.
    Eidos as publisher: nothing for LOK.
    SE as publisher: LOK on Steam and Nosgoth. But both with many-many bugs. Whom do I need to blame? SE or CD?

    As I said above, SE made some more efforts for their own products when they placed them on Steam (FF8, as example), but CD (developer of LOK) really did nothing for this game series - they even paid to gog.com for modification of their own games because can't do this by themself. And more funny that gog.com just sold them fan-patch for SR1 that was placed on the official forum of LOK-games several years before release of this game on Steam.
    So, the same mistake as for the game Nosgoth - pure contacts with their fan-community.

    Another funny thing: it was interesting to see for BO2 such additional patch for the game exe
    "settings.cfg in the game folder" - yep, for the Steam-version (initially this file was placed in the My Documents folder as in the case of Defiance).
    But at least it was also included another useful patch - "Do not see HKLM-paths", so for this game there is no stupid file installscript.vdf (with the settings for registry) as for the other LOK-games.

    And about bugs: it was so "clever" to add (by gog.com and miss it by CD) for SR1 bugged file atiumdag.dll and leaved unused by the game old files = part of original winplay.dll while this file was replaced by fan-produced version.

    P.S.: I think that it is very sad when fans know about technical stuff of the game more than their developer.
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrace0 View Post
    I do not forget nothing.
    Eidos as publisher: nothing for LOK.
    SE as publisher: LOK on Steam and Nosgoth. But both with many-many bugs. Whom do I need to blame? SE or CD?
    CD had nothing to to with it. No LoK on Steam and GOG was Eidos' fault. Buggy versions of LoK on Steam and GOG are SE's fault.
    As I said above, SE made some more efforts for their own products when they placed them on Steam (FF8, as example), but CD (developer of LOK) really did nothing for this game series - they even paid to gog.com for modification of their own games because can't do this by themself. And more funny that gog.com just sold them fan-patch for SR1 that was placed on the official forum of LOK-games several years before release of this game on Steam.
    Again, all of these were Square-Enix decisions. It's obvious that they will put more effort into games that they developed and that had great success in the past than a game they simply acquired. But CD never had anything to say about any of this. Before 2009 Eidos was making the decisions and Square Enix after that. CD didn't do anything because they are simply not allowed to. You really are misplacing your accusations. Blame Eidos first and Square-Enix later but please leave CD out of this. It's like blaming Psyonix for the current death of Nosgoth (and for that they are partially responsible but not for the final decision).

  9. #34
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    Paradoks_db
    Paradoks_dbBuggy versions of LoK on Steam and GOG are SE's fault.
    SE - publisher of these games, not their developer. How can they make fault in the situation ablove?

    Paradoks_db
    It's like blaming Psyonix for the current death of Nosgoth (and for that they are partially responsible but not for the final decision).
    The same situation - Psyonix gave CD engine (and created your own succesful game), SE gave money (more money), but CD again fault all (bugs, bad accomodation with community).

    Paradoks_db
    Again, all of these were Square-Enix decisions. It's obvious that they will put more effort into games that they developed and that had great success in the past than a game they simply acquired. But CD never had anything to say about any of this. Before 2009 Eidos was making the decisions and Square Enix after that. CD didn't do anything because they are simply not allowed to. You really are misplacing your accusations.
    Again: as in the case of Nosgoth, SE gave CD money to improve old LOK-games for Steam. We can see the final result.
    They even said that they tested these games enough before placing them on Steam.
    Who made mistake? SE? May be. But the alternative situation - when publisher suggested fans to modify the games instead of their (existing yet) developer - is very-very unusual.

    And one more time:
    Paradoks_db
    CD didn't do anything because they are simply not allowed to.
    Really? Fans did free modifications for the LOK-games (including injecting their own code), publisher/developer included them into the official version, and CD is not allowed to do something like these?
    They just do not want (lazy) or really can't (because of low knowledge of programming - high and low level of it) or just so greedy for money (i.e. want to have "something for nothing").

    Paradoks_db
    Again, all of these were Square-Enix decisions. It's obvious that they will put more effort into games that they developed and that had great success in the past than a game they simply acquired.
    At least SE has sources of its own games and can easily modify them. (I am again about FF8, for example.)
    CD does not. Also as they do not have knowledge of low-level programming, so they used help of third-party teams.
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrace0 View Post
    SE - publisher of these games, not their developer. How can they make fault in the situation ablove?
    Because they make decisions. They decided to release them in the state they were in. They could simply tell CD (or anyone else they see fit) to either patch it or make a new version. They didn't.
    The same situation - Psyonix gave CD engine (and created your own succesful game), SE gave money (more money), but CD again fault all (bugs, bad accomodation with community).
    What??? CD never had anything to do with Nosgoth! It was all Psyonx/Square-Enix (and arguably Climax Studios before that) stuff.
    Again: as in the case of Nosgoth, SE gave CD money to improve old LOK-games for Steam. We can see the final result.
    Provide evidence for this claim. The way I see it SE simply decided to publish an old game they happened to own. And making sure it runs well ended up being GOG's work. Steam version was GOG's version repackaged. At that time CD was being busy fulfilling SE's orders - that being working on a new Tomb Raider.

    They even said that they tested these games enough before placing them on Steam.
    Who made mistake? SE? May be. But the alternative situation - when publisher suggested fans to modify the games instead of their (existing yet) developer - is very-very unusual.
    It's not unusual. It's SE not wanting to waste resources on an old game because it's not Final Fantasy calibre.
    And one more time:

    Really? Fans did free modifications for the LOK-games (including injecting their own code), publisher/developer included them into the official version, and CD is not allowed to do something like these?
    They just do not want (lazy) or really can't (because of low knowledge of programming - high and low level of it) or just so greedy for money (i.e. want to have "something for nothing").
    No they aren't allowed to. That's how corporations work. CD has lost the right to do whatever they want when they were acquired by Eidos. Unless they do it in their spare time, and then publishing would have to go through SE anyway. And I don't think CD earns any money from LoK sales right now. It all goes directly to SE.
    At least SE has sources of its own games and can easily modify them. (I am again about FF8, for example.)
    CD does not. Also as they do not have knowledge of low-level programming, so they used help of third-party teams.
    That's an entirely different problem, although I'm not sure the sources were lost. It happened very often back in the day (see Silent Hill) but it was not a rule. Either way, I've seen no report on it's status.

  11. #36
    Indeed. Nosgoth is made using the Unreal 3 Engine and the LOK games were made using the CDC/Foundation engine.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  12. #37
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    No offence, wrace, but some of your conclusions have no basis. Square Enix are clearly the ones in the driving seat and the ones to blame for any ill treatment of the series in this regard. Crystal Dynamics have no agency or control over their publisher's whims.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  13. #38
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    ok, ok.
    Paradoks_db
    Provide evidence for this claim. The way I see it SE simply decided to publish an old game they happened to own. And making sure it runs well ended up being GOG's work. Steam version was GOG's version repackaged. At that time CD was being busy fulfilling SE's orders - that being working on a new Tomb Raider.

    No they aren't allowed to. That's how corporations work. CD has lost the right to do whatever they want when they were acquired by Eidos. Unless they do it in their spare time, and then publishing would have to go through SE anyway. And I don't think CD earns any money from LoK sales right now. It all goes directly to SE.

    Lord_Aevum
    No offence, wrace, but some of your conclusions have no basis. Square Enix are clearly the ones in the driving seat and the ones to blame for any ill treatment of the series in this regard. Crystal Dynamics have no agency or control over their publisher's whims.
    The main basis of my conclusions: CD are not fans of LOK-games developed by themself, though they sometimes included some stuff of LOK into milked Tomb Raider.

    Let's look again:
    1) "Steam version was GOG's version repackaged" - if you were developers and had contacts with your community, then you easily saw that gog.com did nothing by themself for LOK-games (it is just original versions of these games with applied official and - sometimes - fan-patches that were available on official Eidos/SE-forums or The Lost Worlds or some other places many years before release of these games on gog.com/Steam; moreover, the same versions can easily be found on some piracy hostings on which they were placed also many years ago - yep, this is mistake of SE, of course, because Steam-version does not have any additional improvements in comparison with the non-Steam-version, since they are just the same; now these versions of the LOK-games lie on the more amount of such hostings; at this time, on more stupidness and lazy version of them; and, of course, some fans download them instead of to buy on Steam because they are fully the same) - and said about this fact to publisher (at least, like "hey, guys, are you so unclever to spent your money for nothing or free?"). CD even did not see such fact.
    For example, it was very interesting for me to saw on Steam the same versions of these games that I already had (some pre-final, some with additional garbage, some with or without additional fixes) many years already.

    2) "Unless they do it in their spare time, and then publishing would have to go through SE anyway" - the fact, they did nothing (for old-LOK games) "in their spare time". Otherwise we can't see in official version of SR1 on Steam (and gog.com) fan-produced content with additional logo.
    Fans created, publisher published. Why fans? Why not CD by themself?
    I see only one reason: fans yet playing in this game, developer - do not.
    "And I don't think CD earns any money from LoK sales right now." - fans also don't earn any money for their modifications + bought (sometimes several times) these games, but they do them (modifications). CD at least obtained their money for developing these games and after that did nothing. Feel the difference.

    3) SE. Yes, SE have full "agency or control over their publisher's whims" on LOK. But - if CD even do not have enough desire to do something with LOK (I am just about old games) and just forgot about this series on the long time, why SE should want to do something with it?

    BTW: anyone who knows programming (low- and high-level) and saw Steam-API + visited The Lost Worlds (to view sources of modification utilities for LOK-games created by mega-fans), can easily see that it is needed very low time (several days, at most 1 week) to activate all Steam-features for LOK-games (just to have slightly another version of these games than lie everywhere, for that fans have additional motivation to buy these games on Steam; though 20k+ fans already bought SR1 on Steam, but on all their questions/problems just silence from anyone official).
    Anyone who saw Steam-version of FF8 know that it is not so hard to fix problems in the game with graphical engine (and SE already have such experience, so - I think - can share it and with CD too).
    And do you really think that SE (as publisher) will say "no" if - say - CD suggest them fully fixed and updated version of these games? (Made "in their spare time".)
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  14. #39
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    CD had no part in decisions regarding releasing the games digitally, nor their compatibility. That's SE's call and responsibility. The decision to use fans patches was made because:
    1) these patches are already there
    2) costs nothing (SE legally owns any modifications made to the code, whether modders realise it or not)
    3) SE's quality assurance concluded that the effect was "good enough" and no further resources need to be spent

    As for CD not doing anything on their own. Do you realise that there is one person left at CD who worked on Soul Reaver? And he is a technical director. I suspect that programming and working with a decade old code is the last thing he would want to do in his spare time. CD is a company. A purpose of a company is to earn money. There are living people working there who have families to support. Blaming them for not supporting something that most of them haven't worked on is like blaming Microsoft for not supporting Windows 95 any more. And again - providing support is Square-Exix' responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrace0 View Post
    And do you really think that SE (as publisher) will say "no" if - say - CD suggest them fully fixed and updated version of these games? (Made "in their spare time".)
    They would probably ask "how does this affect your productivity on the new Tomb Raider?" and then say "if you are working in your free time anyway, then work on Tomb Raider".

  15. #40
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    Paradoks_db
    CD had no part in decisions regarding releasing the games digitally, nor their compatibility. That's SE's call and responsibility. The decision to use fans patches was made because:
    1) these patches are already there
    2) costs nothing (SE legally owns any modifications made to the code, whether modders realise it or not)
    3) SE's quality assurance concluded that the effect was "good enough" and no further resources need to be spent
    At first, SE legally owns ONLY modified files, original versions of that they initially own, not modifications itself including all new files.
    If anyone included in the modification his own content, - for example, soundtrack, - no one else can have rights on it before he obtain or buy the needed rights. For example, if I include for the appropriate location of SR1 (Stone Glyph) soundtrack from Nupraptor's Retreat of BO1, SE does not own rights on this soundtrack before it obtain or buy rights on it from Activision (owner of BO1).

    But the thing is in the fact that SE bought modification from the third-party team (gog.com) that was initially created by fans and - of course - for free (for fans and for SE too). Do you see some imperfection in the logic you wrote above?
    If SE owns all modifications (even before its creation), for what reason does it pay something for already created modifications?
    Or why CD did nothing for old LOK-games if - as you said - SE do not need to pay them for this.

    Paradoks_db
    As for CD not doing anything on their own. Do you realise that there is one person left at CD who worked on Soul Reaver? And he is a technical director.
    Are you about Henning? Look at BO1, for her status in team at this moment. Do you really think that director of anything is the one who knows programming, has sources and can modify them? Do not be so simple.
    Names of programmers for any game you can see in the credits for this game.

    Paradoks_db
    There are living people working there who have families to support. Blaming them for not supporting something that most of them haven't worked on is like blaming Microsoft for not supporting Windows 95 any more.
    Microsoft is not supported Win-95/98/Me and now WinXP|Vista since they created more powerful versions of them - Win-7/8/10 which are again supported by MS. Did CD create new versions of LOK-games (remakes)? Nope. Did they create some fixes for adaptation of old games for the newest OS or hardware? Nope. Why I can't blame them for this? WinXP even now is worked perfectly (in some cases more perfectly and faster than modern OS) and will work in such way for many years from now. Thanks MS for this.

    About families to support: hm, i.e. fans that create modifications do not have families or do not need to support them? Very strange argument. Fans just like something. CD - do not.

    Paradoks_db
    They would probably ask "how does this affect your productivity on the new Tomb Raider?" and then say "if you are working in your free time anyway, then work on Tomb Raider".
    When they working on the new Tomb Raider they have money according their efforts. No one will work in their real spare time for nothing when he knows that he can obtain money for this time. Are you working by yourself in the big company? I am working, so I know the difference between the real spare time (which I can spent as I wish - for example, for playing in the games I like or for creating modifications for them to play without bugs - and which can't be controlled by anyone) and the salaried time (which can exceed - by my wish - standard time for everyday work) for any real project.

    Paradoks_db
    And again - providing support is Square-Exix' responsibility.
    And how do you imagine this? (I mean: do they must this without developer, i.e. CD, sources of the games and existing experience of the developer for their games?) Just interesting.
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrace0 View Post
    At first, SE legally owns ONLY modified files, original versions of that they initially own, not modifications itself including all new files.
    If anyone included in the modification his own content, - for example, soundtrack, - no one else can have rights on it before he obtain or buy the needed rights. For example, if I include for the appropriate location of SR1 (Stone Glyph) soundtrack from Nupraptor's Retreat of BO1, SE does not own rights on this soundtrack before it obtain or buy rights on it from Activision (owner of BO1).
    Technically, you are not allowed to make any modifications at all. EULA and stuff. SE tolerates it because it earns them money in the long run. And SE owns BO1 as well. Activision may have some rights for the PC version, it's still not exactly clear.
    For the record, I think that it's a disgrace for SE that neither you nor other people patching these games are earning anything from it.

    But the thing is in the fact that SE bought modification from the third-party team (gog.com) that was initially created by fans and - of course - for free (for fans and for SE too). Do you see some imperfection in the logic you wrote above?
    If SE owns all modifications (even before its creation), for what reason does it pay something for already created modifications?
    Or why CD did nothing for old LOK-games if - as you said - SE do not need to pay them for this.
    They didn't buy the modifications from GOG. GOG was simply entrusted with incorporating them (more cost effective than taking away workforce from your own team) and then SE used that version for other digital stores. SE is not the only company that does that. It happens quite often.

    Are you about Henning? Look at BO1, for her status in team at this moment. Do you really think that director of anything is the one who knows programming, has sources and can modify them? Do not be so simple.
    Names of programmers for any game you can see in the credits for this game.
    . Amy Hennig left CD 12 years ago. Surely you were aware of that. You don't even know who is left at the company and yet you expect people there to patch games they never worked on. I was referring to Scott Krotz who is now a technical director for the latest Tomb Raider. As far as I know, he is the last man standing at CD when it comes to original Soul Reaver team. That's one person with any knowledge of that game left.

    Microsoft is not supported Win-95/98/Me and now WinXP|Vista since they created more powerful versions of them - Win-7/8/10 which are again supported by MS. Did CD create new versions of LOK-games (remakes)? Nope.
    No, because they weren't told to.

    Did they create some fixes for adaptation of old games for the newest OS or hardware? Nope.
    No, because they weren't told to.

    Why I can't blame them for this?
    Because they weren't in a position to make such decisions.

    About families to support: hm, i.e. fans that create modifications do not have families or do not need to support them? Very strange argument. Fans just like something. CD - do not.
    Of course fans have families to support. That's why the responsible ones do their job first and invest time in their hobbies later. Just like people at CD.

    When they working on the new Tomb Raider they have money according their efforts. No one will work in their real spare time for nothing when he knows that he can obtain money for this time.
    And that's exactly why you aren't getting any official patches any more. No one is being paid to make them. And one company that can spend money on it is not willing to.

    Are you working by yourself in the big company? I am working, so I know the difference between the real spare time (which I can spent as I wish - for example, for playing in the games I like or for creating modifications for them to play without bugs - and which can't be controlled by anyone) and the salaried time (which can exceed - by my wish - standard time for everyday work) for any real project.
    And what do you do at that company? Are you doing what your boss tells you to do (like SE telling CD to work on TR) or do you do whatever you want? And yet, you seem to have a problem with the fact that people at CD are spending their free time in a way they want to and not doing what you want them to do.

    And how do you imagine this? (I mean: do they must this without developer, i.e. CD, sources of the games and existing experience of the developer for their games?) Just interesting.
    Simple. SE tells CD (or other company after they have been given the source code) to make patches. Or SE tells CD (or other company) to make a new version of the game. They don't have to do it in Japan.


    <Sigh>. We are walking in circles. I'm done debating this. But you really are misplacing your accusations. You want support for LoK - ask SE to provide it.

  17. #42
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    Paradoks_db
    Technically, you are not allowed to make any modifications at all. EULA and stuff.
    Technically, I can do with the version I bought and have on my own PC all that I want.
    There appear some difficulties (according to EULA and stuff) when fans will try to distribute any modifications for another fans, but - if they want to avoid any problems - it is possible to do any modifications in the memory of process, do not affecting any files physically, in the same way as trainers do; or just by placing some system dll's in the game folder with the appropriate hooks in the game process (something like atiumdag.dll does).
    I do not see any protection from such movements for SE-games (like Blizzard have for D3 or SC2, for example).

    Paradoks_db
    And SE owns BO1 as well. Activision may have some rights for the PC version, it's still not exactly clear.
    SE does own BO1? O_o I do not think so - they don't added this game neither on Steam nor on gog.com, though the last team obtain (from me) the same rights for the patches for BO1 as for SR1 (hm, using in the projects for free, not for making money for them) when they asked about the last one.
    Some days ago OS on PC of my wife was updated (semi-automatically and without additional price) from Win-8 to Win-10, so I tested on her PC work of some old console-emulators and BO1-PC, - all works fine (as on Win-8 before or on my WinXP) though some improvements can be done, of course.

    Paradoks_db
    For the record, I think that it's a disgrace for SE that neither you nor other people patching these games are earning anything from it.
    I think that in the most cases it is enough price just to add any modifications into the official distributives of the games.
    (And, of course, do not pay anything for the teams who used free fan-modifications to make money on them.)

    Paradoks_db
    They didn't buy the modifications from GOG. GOG was simply entrusted with incorporating them (more cost effective than taking away workforce from your own team) and then SE used that version for other digital stores.
    CM said that SE paid gog.com for adaptation at least SR1 under the newest OS and they did not know that free fan-modification was incorporated into the game.

    Paradoks_db
    You don't even know who is left at the company and yet you expect people there to patch games they never worked on. I was referring to Scott Krotz who is now a technical director for the latest Tomb Raider. As far as I know, he is the last man standing at CD when it comes to original Soul Reaver team. That's one person with any knowledge of that game left.
    Just one question: do you think that no one left from FF8 programming team (1999) or only they can modify sources of this game and add some improvements? Any programmer (with the appropriate knowledge) can do this.

    Paradoks_db
    No, because they weren't told to.
    Again: fans also weren't told to (from Eidos/SE), but they did them.

    Paradoks_db
    Of course fans have families to support. That's why the responsible ones do their job first and invest time in their hobbies later. Just like people at CD.
    Yes, it is the main reason as I told early: developers of LOK (and the current team of CD) are not fans of the LOK-games.

    Paradoks_db
    You want support for LoK - ask SE to provide it.
    They thinking about that, but they - as any big company - are more interesting whether any modifications will affect existing product + they need to test them at first (hm, is it needed to pay CD some money for test and to take some their working time?).

    Paradoks_db
    And what do you do at that company? Are you doing what your boss tells you to do (like SE telling CD to work on TR) or do you do
    whatever you want?
    Of course, I am doing what my boss tells me to do, but if I see that I can modify someting or suggest better way, I talk about this to bosses or spent my own spare time on the additional research, because I love my job and love what we do.

    Paradoks_db
    And yet, you seem to have a problem with the fact that people at CD are spending their free time in a way they want to and not doing what you want them to do.
    May be, because I do not understand such position.

    Let's I try to explain: for example, we (fans) did not know that SE - official publisher - incorporated with gog.com to obtain the versions of LOK-games to place them and on Steam too; also I did not know (on that moment) what is gog.com itself (just additional trading place like Steam). So now - when I see Steam-versions of LOK-games - I understand that we (fans) could easily to add to games more features (specific for Steam, at least, as done for FF8 by SE) in the very small time. But now there are additional difficulties to add anything to already placed product + anyway CD (or who?) should test them at first (it is so funny, though). Whom do I need to blame for this? SE? It is just publisher who owns rights on additional products including LOK. No, I need to blame CD: ok, you are not have enough time to modify LOK or do anything for it and do not want to do something in your spare time if SE do not pay you for this, but you can - at least - to monitor any activity on the official forum of you own games (developed by you) to know that there are fans that can made the appropriate modifications if you can't by yourself or just to give you the appropriate information (The Lost Worlds) if you do not have the appropriate knowledge about LOK-games since all original developers left + perhaps, you do not have sources, + anything else. Nope. Just full indifference to the community + additional losses for your own publisher - SE - since it made mistake when paid for free-product.

    Paradoks_db
    <Sigh>. We are walking in circles. I'm done debating this.
    Yep, I also tired with such heavy debates and walking in circles, since it is usually so hard to explain your own position.
    But - sometimes - in debates the truth is borned.
    Support of LOK-games is the duty of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics.

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