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Thread: Count Eyokir's suggestions

Count Eyokir's suggestions

  1. #26
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    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.
    Yeah, I agree it probably would have been a nice game to play if it was nothing to do with LoK...as it just bombed the series lore, so yeah should of made a new IP as you said!...I probably would have got it then. heh

  2. #27
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    Yes, i hated what i saw of Dead Sun. It was nothing like the other LoK games, it seemed like a hack 'n' slash game with some adventure elements. I wanted something similar to BO1 and SR1.
    The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.

    I think it would have made a fine LoK sequel, or at least spinoff - after some considerable changes and consultant work. The basic idea was sound - set in a far-flung era (same as SR did in regard to BO), some kind of vengeance tale.
    It was the details that botched it. No Kain, a Raziel rip-off, lazy callbacks rather than new ideas, soul-reaving replaced by orb collection, the spectral realm being a time travel mechanic and all around incorrect...

    It was a few good ideas piled on with heaps of garbage. Though I didn't hate Gein for the shifting ability - yes, that was Raziel's thing but others have done it - but more the lame explanation of it. With it allegedly delving into the EG's background, I'd have just set it in some far era of the past (Ancient/Hylden still alive, super far back) and had Gein (with some redesign, maybe make him an Ancient himself) be one of the EG's direct agents - turned rogue at some point (hence the vengeance element) and eventually turned into a mindless Archon or some other ill fate. Get some EG background and some Ancient/Hylden war background, see how their societies actually functioned before both went to pot. Not a continuation but a spinoff affair.


    @Eyokir: I don't think that's what's happening with Nosgoth. I think SE just doesn't actually believe the LoK fanbase specifically is worth courting. I mean, they canned two sequels well into production, clearly there's a mindset of it just being too worthless to even finish a single project. Weren't DP and DS just about completed, yet somehow all those resources poured in are fine to throw away rather than risk a weak sale.

    As to Nosgoth's blandness, I'd say it's less "appeal to everyone" and more "forget appealing to LoK fans, no profit there, just make what we can off the general audience". Nosgoth isn't a real game. It's a last-ditch effort to mitigate losses.

    And the worst of it is that Psyonix actually seems to care about the material to at least some degree - but as noted, SE shows no signs of that care. If Psyonix had SE's size and money without SE's miserable boot over them, it'd probably be amazing. Hey, we'd probably have our sixth game in that scenario.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 26th Nov 2015 at 23:40.

  3. #28
    Originally Posted by snejjjj
    Stuff
    /S l o w blink/ ...JSYK, Us "Kain Fan-people" put in quite a fair amount of hours into this game, too. I've logged close to 800 hours and my name is a direct reference to a cult that worshiped Kain amongst the humans. So the people you insulted and implied aren't worth considering do care about what's going on, and we're not exactly quiet about it.

  4. #29
    Originally Posted by lucinvampire
    Yeah, I agree it probably would have been a nice game to play if it was nothing to do with LoK...as it just bombed the series lore, so yeah should of made a new IP as you said!...I probably would have got it then. heh
    Yup, it could have been the next DMC...but sadly, they wanted it to be a LoK sequel.

    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    It was the details that botched it. No Kain, a Raziel rip-off, lazy callbacks rather than new ideas, soul-reaving replaced by orb collection, the spectral realm being a time travel mechanic and all around incorrect...

    It was a few good ideas piled on with heaps of garbage. Though I didn't hate Gein for the shifting ability - yes, that was Raziel's thing but others have done it - but more the lame explanation of it. With it allegedly delving into the EG's background, I'd have just set it in some far era of the past (Ancient/Hylden still alive, super far back) and had Gein (with some redesign, maybe make him an Ancient himself) be one of the EG's direct agents - turned rogue at some point (hence the vengeance element) and eventually turned into a mindless Archon or some other ill fate. Get some EG background and some Ancient/Hylden war background, see how their societies actually functioned before both went to pot. Not a continuation but a spinoff affair.
    You're not helping me like it more xD
    So far you only helped me notice more of it's flaws.
    But i'll admit this...since much of the plot wasn't reveal, there could have been some interesting twists. I don't believe that there would be no Kain (else it would be stupid calling it "Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun").


    @KaininitePriestess
    Pay no attention to the fledgling

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    Yup, it could have been the next DMC...but sadly, they wanted it to be a LoK sequel.



    You're not helping me like it more xD
    So far you only helped me notice more of it's flaws.
    Oh, it was a flawed pile to be sure.
    But most of that pile was story.
    Gameplay wasn't half-bad, botched spectral realm and dumb orb collection aside. Limited parkour would be fitting enough for the more agile denizens of Nosgoth (the Zephonim, well, they did TRY back on PS1...And some still suggest this for the Deceiver or vamps in general) and the free-flow combat was a decent change from the usual (though arguably too changed - it lost much of its hacky-slash quality for the sake of that flow).

    Just...Oi, the story. "We were too intimidated by the complexity so we threw it all out, then just couldn't be bothered!" - Way. To. Go. Climax.

    And yeah, Kain would've had to appear eventually but how do you put together any sort of footage or teaser of a new LoK game without an ounce of Kain in it? XD

    But whatever, it died proper. Point is, Dark Prophecy was by all evidence a good sequel and still died so I just doubt SE can really be bothered anymore with the actual series or fans. XP Eyokir's right about the audience problem though. Nosgoth will never be some grand esports mainstay. They would do well to focus on the series fans and cater accordingly - though even that will fail if SE's stupid greed wins out.

    On the matter of an Abyss map - would this be the locale as see in SR1 or some earlier version maybe before the land crumbled away so much? I mean, it couldn't just be the central bit Raziel got thrown from, yeah? If so, there's the water close on all sides, vampire players would rage at such a thing...
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 27th Nov 2015 at 08:13.

  6. #31
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    @KaininitePriestess
    Pay no attention to the fledgling
    I will do my best! Must not let the young pups and their unwarranted bravado get under our skin!

    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    And yeah, Kain would've had to appear eventually but how do you put together any sort of footage or teaser of a new LoK game without an ounce of Kain in it? XD
    From what I remember reading, the devs for DS stated that it was set some thousands of years after Kain was dead and gone and no longer an acting influence in the world, so he wouldn't be appearing in the game. Though there's no way to tell at this point if they wouldn't have said that initially and then had him show up toward the end in a "What a tweest!" moment or something. :/ It was still another reason why I wanted nothing to do with DS as a LoK game.

  7. #32
    Join Date
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    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    Yes, i hated what i saw of Dead Sun. It was nothing like the other LoK games, it seemed like a hack 'n' slash game with some adventure elements. I wanted something similar to BO1 and SR1.
    The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.
    It wouldn't have even been greenlit in the first place if they pitched it as a new IP. Which was likely half the problem, there.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  8. #33
    Right time for me to render this all moot and point out that in Dead Sun's backstory - Kain is quite dead. The developers of this game had NO respect for the franchise story whatsoever

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=185202062

  9. #34
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Right time for me to render this all moot and point out that in Dead Sun's backstory - Kain is quite dead. The developers of this game had NO respect for the franchise story whatsoever

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=185202062
    Yeah, this was one of the reasons I had a bit of rage over the game when I first read about it, and over the director's statements regarding the franchise and the lore. I'm so glad that it didn't get off the ground.

  10. #35
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Oh, it was a flawed pile to be sure.
    But most of that pile was story.
    Gameplay wasn't half-bad, botched spectral realm and dumb orb collection aside. Limited parkour would be fitting enough for the more agile denizens of Nosgoth (the Zephonim, well, they did TRY back on PS1...And some still suggest this for the Deceiver or vamps in general) and the free-flow combat was a decent change from the usual (though arguably too changed - it lost much of its hacky-slash quality for the sake of that flow).

    Just...Oi, the story. "We were too intimidated by the complexity so we threw it all out, then just couldn't be bothered!" - Way. To. Go. Climax.

    And yeah, Kain would've had to appear eventually but how do you put together any sort of footage or teaser of a new LoK game without an ounce of Kain in it? XD

    But whatever, it died proper. Point is, Dark Prophecy was by all evidence a good sequel and still died so I just doubt SE can really be bothered anymore with the actual series or fans. XP Eyokir's right about the audience problem though. Nosgoth will never be some grand esports mainstay. They would do well to focus on the series fans and cater accordingly - though even that will fail if SE's stupid greed wins out.
    Yes I've been getting that impression a lot, especially considering it was SE who told Climax studios to make Dead Sun as removed from the actual story of LoK as possible. When foolish, counterproductive decisions like this are made for games it can be traced about 95% of the time to some idiot in upper management. This is why Pysonix has my admiration and sympathies for having to put up with Triple A nonsense, an industry which is so disconnected from what make good games these days that they risk destroying their own industry. Pysonix developers - thank you for putting some life into at least the clans of Kain's Empire pre devolution. I'm especially fond of the Tyrants. And as for the Square Enix people who make these bad decisions, you can go (the end of this sentance has been censored for reasons of decency and good taste)

    But back to suggestions. Yes, the biggest and most EASY for them to do is a Lore Tab. There is utterly NO EXCUSE FOR NOT DOING IT. There are fans right here in this very thread, myself included, who would be willing to help do this for the game, write up text and design the format, FOR FREE. If you wanted to be really lazy you could copy and past from the Legacy of Kain wiki. Add in some turnable models of things for added interactivity, especially that Raziel statue and we're good. Its the very least that can be done really and would mean a lot to the LoK fanbase.

  11. #36
    Personally, I'd want the devs to:

    December:
    1) Keep writing the lore blogs (we're due one from last month)
    2) Finish the voice free chat, since that's already started.
    3) Finish the prestige skins because they've been coming soon all year.
    January:
    4) Finish the forge features (all stats customisable and upgradable to mysterious) that were announced and then "didn't make it in time for the patch".
    Early 2016:
    5) Finish the new map.
    6) Get the Rahabim class added.

    The lore tab could go somewhere between 4, 5 and 6, depending on how much they want to include. For example, if they had an interactive map where yo could click on locations to read about events there and who owns it and look at that area's concept art, that would make into a bigger feature and would need more time.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  12. #37
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    1) Keep writing the lore blogs (we're due one from last month)
    True, but i prefer they take their time than they rush it and we get a crappy story.

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    2) Finish the voice free chat, since that's already started.
    More team coordination, fo shizzle.

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    3) Finish the prestige skins because they've been coming soon all year.
    They probably are re-doing them due to criticism...mostly towards the Prophet one (although personally i'd like for them to change the elite Vang helmet also)

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    4) Finish the forge features (all stats customisable and upgradable to mysterious) that were announced and then "didn't make it in time for the patch".
    And include forging to exotic weapons; and not forget to implement some form of REMOVE enchantment.

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    5) Finish the new map.
    Cheers

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    6) Get the Rahabim class added.
    Cheers, although personally i'd prioritize new abilities than new class

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    The lore tab could go somewhere between 4, 5 and 6, depending on how much they want to include. For example, if they had an interactive map where yo could click on locations to read about events there and who owns it and look at that area's concept art, that would make into a bigger feature and would need more time.
    Sounds wonderful

  13. #38
    @ParadoxicalOmen, I'm going to have to disagree on the Vanguard Helmet and Rahabim. The helmet is just personal preference and since it didn't get many complaints compared with the Prophet skin, I don't think it's worth delaying the skin even longer than it has been. With the Rahabim, putting more abilities ahead of it would mean it akes even longer to complete, because it would then need a lot more abilities itself to start with. I'm getting concerned that the Rahabim might get pushed back so far that Kain's 4th son might remain unrepresented. Any classes after that are just gravey and should absolutely be lowest priority.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  14. #39
    More proposals - (based of the New Lore Blog entry)

    Freeport alterations - Based on the Lore blog, Freeport had many shrines dedicated to various human gods. Freeport needs an update to reflect this, perhaps with small statues depicting deified versions of various Members of the Circle of Nine?


    Human vs human horde mode - Imagine this. You alone, or with a group, have to fend off various waves of human Vampire worshippers in the dark depths of a temple devoted to the Vampires god - Kain.

    Vampire Worshiper Mode - Someone on the human team is a traitor. Tasked with sabotaging their efforts, a specific mission to carry out without their comrades noticing. Once discovered and seen, he becomes fair game to kill.

  15. #40
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    More proposals - (based of the New Lore Blog entry)

    Freeport alterations - Based on the Lore blog, Freeport had many shrines dedicated to various human gods. Freeport needs an update to reflect this, perhaps with small statues depicting deified versions of various Members of the Circle of Nine?


    Human vs human horde mode - Imagine this. You alone, or with a group, have to fend off various waves of human Vampire worshippers in the dark depths of a temple devoted to the Vampires god - Kain.

    Vampire Worshiper Mode - Someone on the human team is a traitor. Tasked with sabotaging their efforts, a specific mission to carry out without their comrades noticing. Once discovered and seen, he becomes fair game to kill.
    That last one is basically Trouble In Terrorist Town and YES. I'd daresay that deserves its own thread. Those modes are always good fun.

    Freeport alterations, absolutely. Suggested it myself right in the lore announcement thread. XD

    And perhaps for the horde wave mode, there could be an objective attached - say, rescuing a captive (who, being one of the Stockholm Syndrome types, is constantly fleeing back to the 'home' of their cage while not guided by rescuers).
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 1st Dec 2015 at 05:43.

  16. #41
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    @ParadoxicalOmen, I'm going to have to disagree on the Vanguard Helmet and Rahabim. The helmet is just personal preference and since it didn't get many complaints compared with the Prophet skin, I don't think it's worth delaying the skin even longer than it has been. With the Rahabim, putting more abilities ahead of it would mean it akes even longer to complete, because it would then need a lot more abilities itself to start with. I'm getting concerned that the Rahabim might get pushed back so far that Kain's 4th son might remain unrepresented. Any classes after that are just gravey and should absolutely be lowest priority.
    About the Vang, yeah i know...it's just my feeling (cause he looks like a bull )

    And about the Rahabim, it's just that i don't want many classes if it means no variety. I loved it when they released the Summoner and Vanguard, but it sucked that we only had 1 loadout almost...no variety, predictable, etc...

    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Freeport alterations - Based on the Lore blog, Freeport had many shrines dedicated to various human gods. Freeport needs an update to reflect this, perhaps with small statues depicting deified versions of various Members of the Circle of Nine?
    I thought of the same thing when reading the post..agreed.

    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Human vs human horde mode - Imagine this. You alone, or with a group, have to fend off various waves of human Vampire worshippers in the dark depths of a temple devoted to the Vampires god - Kain.
    I'd love a human vs human mode (PvP or AI, either would be nice)...also a Vamp v Vamp would be welcome too!

    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Vampire Worshiper Mode - Someone on the human team is a traitor. Tasked with sabotaging their efforts, a specific mission to carry out without their comrades noticing. Once discovered and seen, he becomes fair game to kill.
    This would be a really good theme for the human vs human mode...mix this with the hoard idea:
    Play coop as humans and defeat incoming waves of vampire worshipers

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