Thread: Blood Fountains

Blood Fountains

  1. #1

    Blood Fountains

    As is often the case, discussion in other threads veered off into lore territory so I started to ponder. This time, it was the blood fountains:



    *The skulls are clearly horned, fanged creatures - demons readily fit that visage more than anything else seen in Nosgoth - yet demons are neither native to Nosgoth's material realm nor advanced enough for construction. Given the apparent influence from the demon realm, that leaves just the other residents of that realm: The Hylden.

    Why would the Hylden construct such things? To help Kain? It sounds sensible that they'd want to urge on his slaughter -until one recalls that each dead Guardian is a restored Pillar. And then if Kain had sacrificed himself, the Pillars would have been wholly restored via a recycling of the Circle, and the Hylden would have accomplished nothing. (As for any vague ability they may or may not have to view the timestream, they show no foreknowledge of what Kain's decision will be...)

    So helping Kain makes little tactical sense.
    Who is left then? Other vampires?
    They'd never intentionally empower their enemy without gain.


    So. That leaves humans. Humans to whom the blood grants visions, presumably of the demon realm and/or its inhabitants (given the apparent origin) among other things to grant them power (it was in visions that the Prophets designed their weaponry). But why target humans, why give them potential power? In Blood Omen 2, the Hylden conquest is but a means to an end. Take over, wire up the whole place then initiate genocide. But their end goal in Blood Omen was just conquest. They'd been assaulted, cast down and banished for their opposition to the Elder God and his worship. So now, in the absence of the Ancients - and much like Kain would do later in raising his children from the grave - they enacted an ironic reprisal: Bend the world to their worship, in an act of what would have been to the Ancients an ultimate blasphemy.

    We see this most prominently in the cathedral at Avernus. The Cenobites. Turel inhabited by Hylden. The blood sacrifice. But chained-up humans and giant bloody runes on the floors are scattered all over Nosgoth far beyond the town of Avernus itself. Now, the cult is never explicitly stated to use any kind of inscribed runes or anything but it is sort of a generic 'cult' thing. And the chained humans, well...The cult is explicitly stated to use blood sacrifice.

    Furthermore, many of the fountains are sealed by Moon Gates. The largest of these gates, though, seals not a fountain but a city. The Lost City which contains imagery that would later be associated with the Elder God and his agents in SR2, is reminiscent of Ancient Vampire (EG worshippers) architecture, and once stood in the Lake of the Dead where the Elder now resides at the bottom of the Abyss - his chambers comprised of ruins at least vaguely resembling the Lost City's color palette, which do not appear elsewhere.

    It seems likely then that the blood fountains were a piece of the Hylden plan for conquest (some time after Kain's refusal of sacrifice and beginning conquest, this plan was changed to genocide. Can't imagine the Hylden kept very sane in exile...) while those who inhabited the Lost City sought to bar or at least control access to them, obstructing the Hylden for the sake of their God who is, you will recall, possessed of one hell of an ego and also no big fan of the immortality-seeking little bastards.

    Maybe the cult hadn't become some all-powerful religion yet but its basic tenets in regard to ritual and sacrifice were certainly branching off far and wide even in the BO era. If not for Kain, the conquering empire of the Soul Reaver era may have had a very different face...

    *All of the above is speculative and, rather than accounting for the original intent of Silicon Knights (which, as Dyack himself once said, doesn't matter anymore), is an attempt to fit their work into a cohesive whole with the rest of the series.

    *I might throw up some other lore interpretations here too. Feel free to join in.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 4th Nov 2015 at 04:52.

  2. #2
    I think, you go at it from wrong perspective.
    Blood fountains may be things, that like thich chests from BO2, with unfortunate name "lore chests". Ancient vampires could be spreading "blood stations" all over the place, to empower thier human-turned-vampire descendants like Vorador, in hope they help uphold balance

  3. #3
    @Ygdrasel, the skulls could simply be trophies the ancient vampires kept from their defeated enemies. It makes the most sense that a feeding supply for vampires would be created by vampires.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 4th Nov 2015 at 11:08.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    @Ygdrasel, the skulls could simply be trophies the ancient vampires kept from their defeated enemies. It makes the most sense that a feeding supply for vampires would be created by vampires.
    Or simple ornaments, just to strike right kind of feeling if some human(or other creature) see this. After all in our world people often adopted big portions of other cultures, after seeing and liking it- for example we Poles were really fond of sabres, after we saw them used by Hungarians- they had it from turkish warriors, and they probably from Ruthenians. And then we perfected it(winged husar sabre- so called "czarna szabla", or "szabla husarska"), so english and french soliders adapted sabre for themselves. The same goes for every nation- architecture, art, medicine and all disciplines of science in the world
    So it would pretty safe to assume, that some vampires saw demons, thought of them as menacing, and because he/she was pretty good with hammer and chisel...

  5. #5
    It's a good debate

    Assuming that the skulls are horned on purpose, that is, the devs did that in mind of referencing the Hylden/Demons...and that it wasn't a simple choice like "it will look cool" (because there is a chance that the whole Hylden/Demon plot wasn't thought of at the time...).

    Assuming that this is the case, i would think that the skulls are more of a display of strength made by the elder vampire...for example, if i were to make a throne of bones, it would be made of the bones of my enemies...(as Vampmaster stated)

    I also had a theory that maybe this might be Hylden blood.
    Having BO2 in mind, drinking the blood of other vampires allowed you to gain their strengths. So if this is considered official, and not just a gameplay element, i would believe the blood fountain contained Hylden blood (hence the skulls), or perhaps even the elder vampire's blood. This way, as kain would consume them, he would grow stronger.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    @Ygdrasel, the skulls could simply be trophies the ancient vampires kept from their defeated enemies. It makes the most sense that a feeding supply for vampires would be created by vampires.
    What enemies did they have with such features as those skulls?

    @Paradox: I have little doubt that the Hylden/Demon plot was utterly non-existent when Blood Omen arrived. That's why I went out of the way to note that any ideas I put forth disregard the BO's team original intent - whatever it might have been - in favor of fitting the errant puzzle piece that is Blood Omen into the overall whole. If the blood is indeed Ancient blood, then they could play a potential role in his eventual undoing of the blood curse. Very intriguing idea, that. (And a shameless plug of Gen's idea for a 'sixth game' because my god, do I want that to be a thing.)

    Me, I'd never considered the exact source of blood but in line with my theory, I suppose it'd be Hylden or demon. Maybe once they were banished, they discovered demonic blood could bestow strengths upon those who drank. It is noted as "the blood of ages" though which implies an ancient quality...So it could be any of the three. They are all very old races.

    The Ancients setting them up in advance for Kain though would require a great deal of omniscience which is clearly something they lacked (or if possessed, had little talent for) given their numerous screw-ups and mistakes with the war, being overthrown, completely cocking up their expectations of their "champion"...
    I'd still wager it's a Hylden plot particularly in combination with the forges. Sow blood sacrifice and power-greed throughout the land, maybe even use their empowered followers to wage war against the Circle...Of course, Mortanius waged that war for them in the end.


    And just to quit derailing the Prophet thread, I thought I'd drag the 'spirit forge' stuff over here if nobody minds too much:


    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    There's nothing to that that everything to do with demons is connected to the Hylden. If they're so vein, why would they try to look like demons? It doesn't make them appear particularly trustworthy to their customers. I'm not saying the Spirit Forges couldn't be Hylden, but there's no proof of it so far. There's no explanation given for why the Wraith and Shade, who Kain DID say inhabited the Spirit Forges wanted the blood. If it was the Hylden, using it for the Turel and the Blood Fountains, it would be an immense effort to go through to supply just Turel and Kain with blood. Neither of them need huge amounts and there are plenty of humans running around for Kain to feed on already.

    If at some point a writer decided to go with the explanation that the Spirit Forges are run by Hylden, they'd need to explain how they avoided the binding, since that only failed after the end of Blood Omen 1. Perhaps they accomplished that by fusing their souls with the demon statues. They could no longer leave the forges, but didn't get banished to the demon dimension themselves.
    Vanity isn't necessarily about looking trustworthy. The Hylden in their current state are these gross skeletal things. Now, you're out to get power - Do you flaunt what a sad boney mess you are or co-opt the hulking, threatening visage of the demons? Are the Sentinels showing off their grotesque blood-starved faces or donning fancy frightening masks?

    As for "the Wraith and Shade" - Shades as established throughout the series are just mindless spectral things, Frankensteins composed of soul fragments. I think Kain was using it in more of a colloquial sense of "spirit-world creature" than referring to the specific entities. No idea why wraiths would seek blood but then, I don't believe wraiths are running the place. (Though if they were: It is a common theme in fiction that spectral things are very jealous of the living, desiring life for themselves...Perhaps the blood is some sort of satiation of that.)

    And Turel is a very large creature. He probably does need a fair bit more than a more average-sized vampire. But it's less about amount and more about supply: How many inhabit Avernus VS. the entire land of Nosgoth? Without the forges, once Avernus' population ran low, new victims would need to be drawn from all that distance away. A hassle, yes? Establishing forges across the land is simply a more efficient supply system - and one that doesn't even need worshippers, just good ol' human greed for powerful items. And worshippers (or their slaves) may have actually done the build work.


    And the binding was failing before Blood Omen or at least right at its start. The first event we witness is Mortanius possessed to murder Ariel so either Mortanius was always vulnerable enough to be possessed or the binding must have been failing for some time prior to that event, in which time Mortanius became vulnerable enough.

    That idea about fusing to the statues is an interesting one but not quite needed. The binding collapses entirely at Blood Omen's end but it's pretty much on life support anyway from the start. If Hash could slip through to possess Mortanius for Ariel's murder - and afterward continue attempts to stay in possession (the wiki says that his plan to use Kain came amidst struggling against possession) - then why couldn't the Hylden project their voices in the forges and spit out some weapons?

    And of course, there's nothing to say everything to do with demons is Hylden-related. But the demons we see are nothing but hulking brutes of no apparent sapience so I'd just figure the Hylden would be responsible for any advanced operations that gave off any kind of demon vibe.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 7th Nov 2015 at 03:36.

  7. #7
    As I said, it's entirely possible, but still speculation until a writer adds proof to confirm it.

    If they're drawing in blood from all across the land, isn't that like needing an entire city's water supply just for one person. He was big, but not King Kong big.

    Kain probably wasn't being that specific when he said wraith and shade. If you look up the meanings, they're basically just various types of ghost or spirit, so maybe he just meant that. There could easilly be more than one tyoe of being that fits the definition of shade and it's unlikely Kain had time to study or interrogate them extensively.

    Hylden have dodged the binding before it failed before. Being already dead and in spectral, seems likely to be one way. I wasn't saying it's impossible, only that it would be better to explain how. The Spirit Forges appear to have been there a long time. While not actually stated anywhere, I think it's too early to assume they only sprung up around the time Nuoraptor corrupted the circle.

    To summarise, the only evidence is that there are demon statues which could be there for any number of reasons and that the forges require blood sacrifices. It doesn't mean that the Spirit Forges are run by demons or run by demons that are possessed by someone else. They could also be ingredients or pets or something no one has even thought of yet. I'm sure there are plenty other uses for blood besides feeding to Turel. We don't know if other creatures besides vampires feed on blood or whether blood is required for certain spells like conjuring or something.

    Yoy know what I think would be a good chance to find out for certain? If Kain did have a reason to interrogate a forge creature. Maybe when he was trying to learn how to raise his own vampires or something like that.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  8. #8
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    Here I go again...
    I think that there is enough evidence in Blood Omen to show that the Spirit Forges are almost certainly connected to Hash'ak'gik.

    In Avernus, in the "Hell" part, Kain finds an old book that says:

    And Hash'ak'gik spoke to the world, and all who heard trembled.
    "Bring me your first born, and shed their blood on the altar of the world, so I might take nourishment from them.
    "Do this without question, or suffer my wrath for eternity."
    And its will was done.


    The Spirit Forges themselves say "Shed your blood for me, and these artifacts will be yours."
    Both require blood sacrifices. The Spirit Forges have demon statues, which are connected to Hash'ak'gik, and one looks almost exactly like Hash'ak'gik at the end of the game (though it was pointed out to me that they don't actually look EXACTLY the same). I could pull in more information that proves that even back then Mortainus was possessed by Hash'ak'gik as well.
    We have to put pieces together ourselves here. It's not directly stated, but it's quite implied that the Spirit Forges are connected to Hash'ak'gik, supplying him and his forces with blood sacrifices, handing out trinkets that was worthless in the long run.

    Connecting it with the rest of the series (which absolutely should be kept in mind, that Blood Omen wasn't made with the later games in mind), it's presumable that these are some sort of links to the Demon Dimension, and that the Hylden are using these blood sacrifices to strengthen their presence in Nosgoth.

    As for the Blood Fountains, again, we should look at this in two ways, how they were intended in Blood Omen, and how they might fit with the rest of the series. As far as Blood Omen goes, it's really hard to say. These things have skulls with horns, which seems to suggest demons, but the voice sounds totally different from the Spirit Forges, and whatever they are, they give new abilities to Vampires. I don't think that there's enough to go on in Blood Omen. They really do just seem a mystery.
    Now connecting it with the rest of the series, I've always thought the look of it was more in Vorador's style than the Ancient Vampires. What I mean is that these could have been made by the first generation of humans turned Vampires, and as some of you said, maybe Ancient Vampire blood could have been used. Whatever the case, they don't like it when Vampires are greedy and turn the blood into the black blood, which is from undead corpses. This is also why I say that it can't be from demons, because they have green, poisonous blood (and yes, I know that they had red blood in Blood Omen 2 and Defiance. I was really disappointed especially in Defiance that they didn't bother giving them green blood. I mean, they already had it for the Elder God at least. Same with the Revenants having red blood, something I've always hated as well. They are undead, so they should have black blood. Anyone who's played Blood Omen got the importance of blood color firmly imbedded in their mind, so this always bothered me. I loved that in Soul Reaver 2 that they actually kept it all consistent though).
    Also, I've personally been disappointed how as the series went on, everything in Nosgoth seemed to go back to either the Ancient Vampires, or the Hylden, like there was no other source for things. There were so many cool things on Blood Omen that just disappeared, and since most fans never bothered to play it, they're ignorant of so much. Hell, I've even seen people who thought that Mortanius was the only necromancer in Nosgoth, which is of course not true, or else, wouldn't Kain have figured it out way sooner? This is also something I love about the game Nosgoth, that they're actually referencing so many things from Blood Omen that were lost along the way.

    Sorry if I came across as insulting at all with this, that wasn't my intent. It's just that I feel like people miss what I thought was cleverly hidden in Blood Omen and is right there to see if you really pay attention to the game.

  9. #9
    OK, so the humans knew that Turel was only a host when they wrote the book and that it was the Hylden Lord that needed the blood sacrifices? How did you discover that? Are the demons just the true forms of the Hylden? Where are you getting this information?

    Once again, I'm not saying it's impossible, but one unproven threory can't be used as proof for another. One statue in one forge looking a bit like the morphed body of Mortanius doesn't say anything about what the reason for the statue was being there was, and certainly doesn't say what the blood was needed for or account for the other completely different statues in the other forges.

    I'll just leave this here:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 19th Nov 2015 at 22:32.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  10. #10
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    Hash'ak'gik is a demon. The Spirit Forges have demon statues. Hash'ak'gik demands blood sacrifices. The Spirit Forges demand blood sacrifices. I mean, it seems pretty clear that there was a connection in mind back then. And connecting it with what was invented later with the Hylden doesn't really seem to contradict this. And I've also said before that Turel being Hash'ak'gik actually falls apart the more you get into it, let's not forget that book Kain finds in Willendorf:

    "I came upon another book of interest buried deep amongst the library’s tomes. It spoke of a small cult that existed in Nosgoth, ages past. Wherever they traveled strange tales of human possession would follow. Little is known of the god they worshipped."

    Obviously, putting everything together, this is the cult of Hash'ak'gik, and Mortainus is being possessed by Hash'ak'gik. "Ages past" Kain says, so this suggests that long ago there was a cult that existed, and either it has existed in the shadows for centuries, or Azimuth is starting it up again. This is why I have a problem with Turel being Hash'ak'gik to the followers. Because this cult existed in "Ages past", this means that Turel couldn't have been there to command the people to give blood sacrifices, because Turel could only have been summoned in the time of Azimuth's life. I guess you could say that "Ages past" could only refer to a few centuries ago (since Azimuth was likely born about 400 years earlier, after her predecessor was killed by Vorador), but it just cheapens it to me to say that. It makes the ancient cult of Hash'ak'gik not feel so ancient after all.

    You know, talking about all this has made me realize a big mistake and missed opportunity in Soul Reaver. Hash'ak'gik's plan in Blood Omen was to kill Ariel, using her relationship with the Guardian of the Mind, Nupraptor, to infect the Circle with his insanity and cause the Pillars of Nosgoth to collapse, which would aid him in the end, likely by allowing he and his forces to enter Nosgoth. At the end of the game, we can decide if Kain sacrifices himself, destroying everything Hash'ak'gik has set up (even more because Kain just killed him, though Hash'ak'gik's forces still exist), or to have Kain be sick of being used by everyone and refuse to sacrifice himself, destroying the Pillars, which is of course, what Hash'ak'gik wanted.
    Yet in Soul Reaver, we see no demons, no sign of Hash'ak'gik's plan coming to fruition. I love the Vampire Empire created for the game, all the lore and thought that went into that game, but now that I think about it, I think that not following up on the plan of Hash'ak'gik, one of the major players in Blood Omen, was a big mistake. They've never had a satisfying explanation for why Hash'ak'gik's forces didn't come into Nosgoth. The Pillars held them back, so why wouldn't they be able to enter more freely now that they're gone? Hell, there were more demons running around when the Pillars were only corrupted.
    And yes, I know all about Blood Omen 2. I am very well versed in this series and have played each of the games multiple times. But if you think about things "before" the Blood Omen 2 timeline existed, there really is no explanation for why Hash'ak'gik's forces aren't invading Nosgoth.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    I'll just leave this here:
    Hey now, everything IS aliens!



    There's no telling what the multiple-possession is doing to Turel's body. We've seen that prolonged or repeated possession by even just one can weaken a vessel. And, first demonstrated by Mortanius, even mutate the flesh of a vessel once it's used up. Even weaker ones than Hash have brought these effects upon their hosts. Imagine many, repeatedly inhabiting, for...However long Turel worked as a vessel. It might take a lot of blood just to keep Turel at a base level of health counteracting the possession effects.

    Either way, they're not necessarily drawing blood continuously from every fountain across the land so it's not quite an "entire city's water for one person" scenario. But when the greedy foolish type wanders by, well, their blood can be useful. And if the Avernus cult is spreading around and aiming to take hold over more people, which certainly seems to me to be the case, they'd have easily exploitable sycophants all over Nosgoth to put to use as needed.

    And yeah, that's what I meant, that Kain's "wraith and shades" comment was just a colloquial remark on various non-specific ghost things.

    The Hylden have never been shown, as far as I recall, to dodge the binding before it failed. If they have, I've forgotten when.

    And yes, the forges have been there for a long time. I'd never suggested that they sprung up suddenly when Nupraptor corrupted the Circle. Hash's cult, and thus presumably Hash's need for a vessel (in Turel, whom the forges feed), was founded well before Nupraptor's little incident.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 21st Nov 2015 at 02:26.

  12. #12
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    Also, just because it's never directly stated that the Spirit Forges and Hash'ak'gik are connected in Blood Omen doesn't mean that this wasn't intended. Did you know that it's never stated, not once, in all of Blood Omen that Mortanius killed Ariel? It's something that you only learn by paying close attention, mostly when Ariel is killed. In the scene, we see a shadow casting on her from behind, that once you're very familiar with the game, you'll notice is the same shape as Mortanius, and when you see the dagger raised to stab her, only for about a second, you can see that it is in fact Mortanius. Just because it's never stated anywhere in the game that he did it doesn't mean that it wasn't the intention, even back then. And yes, I know about the unused dialogue with Mortanius confessing it all at the end of the game, but that doesn't really matter since it was an alternative ending with Mortianius intentionally killing her because the love Ariel and Nupraptor had was apparently dooming the Circle, and because you can only find it by hacking the game.
    Or how about if I bring up another Silicon Knights game, Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem? Did you know that there is in fact a fifth elder god in that game, completely unmentioned, but still present? From Denis Dyack: "I don't think I can go into that. Secrets for the future. But one of the things we lightly touched upon, and some people have discovered, there actually is a fifth Old One in the game that's really alluded to, which is the proponent of yellow magic. And explaining that stuff and the mythos, there's a lot more to tell, [like] why have the Ancients been imprisoned, those kinds of things. It's just the tip of the iceberg, where we need to expand the universe and stuff. There's a lot more to tell."
    Source (in the bottom paragraph)
    Within Eternal Darkness itself, you can see the signs, with yellow magic coming up every so often. This was something hidden in the game, to be found by piecing things together, made by the same people that made Blood Omen. I really don't see why my idea that the Spirit Forges are connected to Hash'ak'gik is somehow comparable to the stupidity on Ancient Aliens. I think I've provided quite a bit of evidence, and I truly feel that if you look at the evidence within Blood Omen itself, that it becomes pretty apparent that there is some sort of a connection, just like how you have to piece things together to figure out the truth about Mortianius, or that there's a fifth elder god in Eternal Darkness.

  13. #13
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    A few things:

    The demons are separate entities from the Hylden, confirmed by the team and in the strategy guides. The Hylden can manipulate the flesh of a host the more it's used up to look like horrid mutations and even demons, yes.

    Two Hylden did escape the binding: The Builder, because he was locked up in the Eternal Prison (though, due to BO2 being BO2, he has the same character model as the ones who were banished...) and The Seer, which was never fully explained as to how. Daniel Cabuco mentioned the possibility of the team addressing her as some Hylden/vampire hybrid, and Vorador mentions owing her a favor in BO2. It would make sense that he helped hide her as being the big favor he can call on, but it's never confirmed.

    Possessed Mortanius is as confirmed as it gets as Ariel's murderer in the game, with the Unspoken stating, "Don’t you see? My silencing of Ariel, and its calculated repercussions, is but the first act in my theatre of Grand Guignol. Of which you are the tragic ”hero.” Then further confirmed with Silicoln Knight's FAQ, "Mortanius is in constant conflict against "The Unspoken" who is inside him. Mortanius' goal was to correct the imbalance he has caused by murdering Ariel, while under the Dark Entity's control. Kain was created to destroy the old circle so a new one could rise to replace it. As the game progresses, some of Mortanius's actions are his own, some are him being controlled." "It was Mortanius who first silenced Ariel, then, was it not? Yes. Under control of the Dark Entity." So, it's not as ambiguous as other examples.

    I very much think that just in BO1, before the rest of the games existed, that the cult, the Spirit Forges, and Hash were all probably supposed to be connected. Now that things have progressed, it's still something very much left open to define. Same with the Blood Fountains, however I think that now with the revelations in the rest of the game -- specifically the Ancients' architecture made of blood and Janos' Aerie, filled with all manner of blood out of thin air, and lest not forget the huge veritable lake of it in the Fire Forge -- the Blood Fountains make the most sense to be their creations. They'd leave them for the fledglings to find to overcome the weaknesses from the curse and to strengthen them, as much as possible. Kain's immunity to falling water in rain and snow; his strength, etc.

    I, too, wished that so much from BO1 would have carried over. Blood of the demons and undead, certainly. Not to mention in Defiance they don't have souls "due to gameplay reasons" only, as they confirmed. I also loved that Kain would have to face again those he slew, seeing their ghosts haunt the locations he has been though. Little touches like that, or the standing stones and portals (though, Defiance has a few of the stones, at least, in the Cemetery), BO1 is such a rich and broad world.

    Minor thing, but the statues in the Spirit Forges are mostly demons, save for two that aren't. One is of the undead wizard beings you face throughout and the other looks to be one of the mutant beasts you see later on in the game (called a "bone monster").

  14. #14
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    Yeah, it looks like the Nosgoth team have decided not to have the Spirit Forges connected be to Hash'ak'gik/the Hylden, which disappoints me, but it's their decision, though I love it that they brought back the old symbol that was used in Blood Omen. And sorry if I overreacted there. Still, whenever they come up, I'm still going to maintain that I truly believe that in the original intent of Blood Omen that they were related. Though it is nice to see that there is at least one person who also thinks that they were supposed to be connected.

  15. #15
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    Also, I did want to add this: Vorador kills the Guardians around 500 years before the events of BO1, to not shortchange Azimuth's reign. Back when there was only BO1, of course, that was supposed to have been 5,000 years in the past, so things certainly tightened up when CD continued the LoK series.

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    Yeah, I got the years mixed up. I'm glad that they changed it to 500 rather than 5,000 years as well. I get sick of it in fantasy when they just throw around huge numbers all the time. Just using Blood Omen as an example, am I supposed to believe that their technology has advanced so little in 5,000 years? We don't see much of the time when Vorador killed the circle, but from what we do see, it doesn't look all that different from what we see in the present. It's pretty ridiculous.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by The_Hylden
    I, too, wished that so much from BO1 would have carried over. Blood of the demons and undead, certainly. Not to mention in Defiance they don't have souls "due to gameplay reasons" only, as they confirmed. I also loved that Kain would have to face again those he slew, seeing their ghosts haunt the locations he has been though. Little touches like that, or the standing stones and portals (though, Defiance has a few of the stones, at least, in the Cemetery), BO1 is such a rich and broad world.
    Me too...so much was left behind. And with each sequel even more is left behind.

    I feel like LoK is slowly transitioning into an action/slasher.

    BO1 was basically RPG;
    Then SR1 was open-world adventure with RPG elements;
    SR2 became quite linear and was basically adventure;
    BO2 went action with elements from SR1 (like puzzle bosses and dark gifts similar to raziel's powers);
    And last was Defiance which reminded me a lot of DMC with those silly combos (Hammer your enemy to the ground and he bounce back up to continue combo)

    Dead Sun would have been the complete form i guess...