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Thread: Extended ending/additional content for Life is Strange change.org petition

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by --TIE-- View Post
    I think they dont realize what this petition is, an honor for them. Noone blame them for that. Run out of time and money in her business isn´t a shame, realy. There are about 5000 ppl who stands behind Dontnod and are willing to spend more money for such a trivial thing like a Game. Realy we dont rescue some refugees or bring foot to the 3rd World...5k ppl think its worthing to polish the end of a game and are willing to be part of it with their hard earned money.

    Maybe for me only I think that is the "Medal of Honor" for Developers there is no higher award out there than ppl who unsolicited throw their money in your way if you simple make it possible.
    Well spoken ... well spoken son

    I guess they just get it form the wrong side and just thinking "look a petition they wanna blame us ..." No we don't and won't we want spent our money for you to get more content for LiS and an extended ending what they wanted to include it but couldn't because of low resources. at least it is what I want since I have no power to speak for everyone ^-^ I want what the community want and supporting them <3 I've never thought there will be such a great community even with people who don't support but support otherwise :-)

  2. #27
    I guess they just get it form the wrong side and just thinking "look a petition they wanna blame us ..."
    Worst case! And a bitter taste that in this world, even with purest intentions (give a way money...), something can interpretated wrong.

    I've never thought there will be such a great community even with people who don't support but support otherwise :-)
    Me too it´s a honor to be a part of it

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by --TIE-- View Post
    Worst case! And a bitter taste that in this world, even with purest intentions (give a way money...), something can interpretated wrong.

    Yeah I said it in a wrong way, sorry. I mean maybe they see it as an offense or something like this, because it's their second game but they know that Life is Strange hits people so intesiv that they go to a defense position and Michel Koch said "... so much critism" not sure if I spell it right.

    But when I look at all those cut lines especially from Nathan it hurts me 'cause it really sound like he got the same vision as Max had. I know they said that Nathan was always be planned as a dramatic character, but it would be awesome even after I heard his last voice mail he made me cry. I don't know and I also thought there would be a bit more about Rachel. Of course she has to be a mystery but, I felt a bit disappointed about it somehow. they had a plan about a "hospital ending" damnit I would have seen this so much what they had planned maybe they do also a making of about their cut outs and so.

    Anyway I really hope that Dontnod don't see us as an enemy because this would be sad. They have to answer us somehow at least say something about how we stand "hey I know about your petition and I also honor your work bla bla but we can't take donations from you ..." I don't know it stillo hurts me so much OMFG I need tissues again >.>

  4. #29
    Oh maybe I say it wrong, not you!

    I think if they got it as an offense or think we will blame them with that petition, its sad bcs. even if we offer them more money to finaly complete LIS (or at least polish the last Episode), they only think in a negative way. This world makes them blind for the positive side of the petition. WE WANT HELP YOU OUT. you ask for more money (or even dont dare to ask) we will give it to you. That´s what I want to say, its hard to see that even this nicely written petition with it noble intentions would (in worst case) interpret in a negative, blaming, offensive way.

    About all the other things you said I feel the same, the story over the first 4 Episodes was so nicely written I realy want to see all this things they didnt put in the game bcs. the lack of money and time.

    TIE -> give tissues to -> CrystalXPredator *g*

  5. #30
    5100 signatures already. Wow.

    But as I said somewhere before, it's likely dontnod doesn't even know or care about this petition. A simple acknowledgement would be enough for some. I really hope they don't alienate a portion of their customer base.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lehkeri View Post
    5100 signatures already. Wow.

    But as I said somewhere before, it's likely dontnod doesn't even know or care about this petition. A simple acknowledgement would be enough for some. I really hope they don't alienate a portion of their customer base.
    Don't put too many words in their mouths... I am sure this has not escaped them, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are happy about people having such a response to their little baby.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  7. #32
    In a story driven adventures/interactive movies, which largely rely on their audiovisual presentation, the gameplay itself is either non-existent (Quantic Dream games in a nutshell) or it takes a backseat retaining only the function of "getting the game going", whilst the story and characters are everything (Life is Strange). If you don’t like the story for any reason (from personal to objective), games like these have no other means how to catch your interest. It’s not like you have to necessarily like Marcus Fenix and his ridiculous brosquad in order to enjoy shooting mechanics of the Gears series.

    Initially, Life is Strange seemed to excel both in presentation and story field. With each episode growing tension build up hinted that Life is Strange indeed has a sophisticated storyline where every choice has its consequences and it was marketed that way, yet, the last episode botched that hope by leaving its own formula making it unique experience. Many people writing early reviews on Steamstore, on other review aggregator sites or just on their blogs learned their lesson of not reviewing the game before it is actually finished. Many also backtracked on their almost uncritical acclaim, rephrasing their reviews as well as making addenda without changing overall "blue" rating from positive to negative on Steam. It only shows that something went wrong with the story and its presentation. The group of "reviewers" I pity are those who changed their relationship to the game from love to hate spewing insults. As for myself I'm glad that I stayed frosty avoiding any early conclusions so now I don't have to modify review of mine anywhere.

    Just to point out the few things I had issue with. The tornado should have come anyway as Max had been dreaming about it for quite some time before she gained the powers and tampered with the original timeline. Also, meteorologists of the richest country in the world would discovered its emergence easily several days prior meaning safe evacuation of the town without drama of obligatory sacrifices later. These kind of natural phenomena do not materialize out of nothingness. Then there were developing themes, motives and subplots left for dead. What about Tobanga, Samuel, homeless wisewoman, Prescott involvement etc.

    The nightmare section turns out to be a recycled filler which is nice to look at while adds up nothing to the story. Parts where already bad turns into worse are simplistic maze filled with "enemies" repeating same paths which is followed by static diorama sightseeing tour. After that you are abruptly brought before binary choice rendering most of those you made previously completely meaningless. Oh, and "Sacrifice Arcadia" ending is epitome of rushed for me. Presumably, Warren is dead, Chloe's mother dead as well as most of the townsfolk together with heroine's peers and still girls don't seem trying to help or find anyone, they just drive out of the wretched place in the morning, which is almost if not entirely criminal act at the given situation, while their emotions are at the level of experiencing bicycle theft!

    Last episode affects my reception of a whole series in quite a negative way, so extended/redone one could partially improve it. Dontnod is so close to masterpiece yet so far at the same time. They managed most of the journey pretty well but failed near the end. I hope my critique crushes nobody related to the studio, I really like French developement overall and hope they will make it next time! (Vampyr)
    Last edited by TweetyCZ; 30th Oct 2015 at 15:30.

  8. #33
    Yay, lenghty post but I couldn't have said it better myself, kudos to your effort.

  9. #34
    I hope my critique crushes nobody related to studio, I really like French developement overall and hope they will make it next time! (Vampyr)
    Criticism is okay as long it is consturctive criticism and not onlay blame or hate. You point it out in the right way, so I think they arent offended. But for my part if they dont do anything with the ending of LIS I will be much more careful and think about what I buy from them or not. Vampyr is a good thing to talk about. With LIS in mind, I fear to run in an uncomplete, at least unsatisfactory gameplay again. Maybe they run out of money and time again. Sure I think I will buy the game but not as a preorder or in the first few weeks...or month´s not until I see they made it better this time.

    For the future I will feel much more safe with their products if they manage to bring LIS to a good (means complete, even the end is sad anyway) end. I belive in second chances not in third and to do anything with LIS even if I have to pay for it again (DLC / Kickstarter / DC version), is a second chance. Simply close the file and go on to the next game left a bitter taste at all.

    I hope dontnod realise that we ar at least customers and they need to baby us if they want to make money...not ignore us. The petition is a natural win win situation for both sides. We dont want to force them to do anything we beg for a chance to give them the financial resources to made it possible. I dont see this done by a gamecommunity before. We are willing to give, before we receive anything.

  10. #35
    Thanks, I tried my best and despite all the concerns expressed, this is not meant to be some kind of gospel. All the people thinking that finale was awesome are entitled to carry on with it.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by --TIE-- View Post
    For the future I will feel much more safe with their products if they manage to bring LIS to a good (means complete, even the end is sad anyway) end. I belive in second chances not in third and to do anything with LIS even if I have to pay for it again (DLC / Kickstarter / DC version), is a second chance. Simply close the file and go on to the next game left a bitter taste at all.
    Physical collector's edition (like Maxine's diary) featuring current endings in extended form + 2 completely new endings would be ideal in my opinion. Choice among 1 bad, 1 really bad (we already have those) 1 neutral 1 good ending should be the thing making everyone content with the outcome as we cannot expect them to rework basically the whole game in this stage. Making the surrounding world to be reshaped either in a negative or positive way based on consequences of main protagonist's actions is their very hard task for Vampyr.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TweetyCZ View Post
    Physical collector's edition (like Maxine's diary) featuring current endings in extended form + 2 completely new endings would be ideal in my opinion. Choice among 1 bad, 1 really bad (we already have those) 1 neutral 1 good ending should be the thing making everyone content with the outcome as we cannot expect them to rework basically the whole game in this stage. Making the surrounding world to be reshaped either in a negative or positive way based on consequences of main protagonist's actions is their very hard task for Vampyr.
    Good, neutral, bad ending fits in RPGs but not in a movie adventure game. Developers didn't want one choice to be better than another. That's what I was talking about in another thread, players want to win, so they are dissapointed. But this is about story, there is no place for winning.

  13. #38
    I think a good ending isn´t comparable to winning. And I go with you if you say highscores and points have no room in movie adventure games. But why should it end always bad? With Very bad, bad, neutral you had enought space for a sad end. It becomes boring very fast if you know always you cant change anything. So I think a little bit white between the grey and black ist acceptable.
    Last edited by --TIE--; 31st Oct 2015 at 11:40.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Tataboj View Post
    Good, neutral, bad ending fits in RPGs but not in a movie adventure game. Developers didn't want one choice to be better than another. That's what I was talking about in another thread, players want to win, so they are dissapointed. But this is about story, there is no place for winning.
    Well, I don't see how sole surviving can be seen as "winning" given that leitmotif of the whole game, Rachel, is irreversibly dead. Also I can't comprehend how could be letting the whole town to be destroyed, with casultaties ranging from several hundreds to several thousands somehow better than one more death (Chloe) as the scope of people affected is much, much smaller in the latter. Good ending should be a player's reward for making "right" choices et vice versa, bad ending for wrong choices, neutral one for insecure hesitancy, simple as that. This of course depends on the point of view as gothic souls among gamers often see right as wrong.

    What is so RPGish about multiple bad/neutral/good endings? This should be jam of adventures. I played many excellent RPGs with poor or close to non-existant story as well as story driven RPGs with no choices near ending whatsoever, especially Japanese ones. Still, these were among the finest RPGs I have ever played, but what made them excellent? Development of the character and roleplay part - that's what makes up a basis for excellent RPG in the first place. Rich story with multiple ending is something which was borrowed mainly from adventures and it wasn't always like that. Just look at most of the RPGs from eighties f.e how plain it was story and choiceswise. This is a two way process of course, many adventures has been borrowing a lot from RPG and other genres too. So, there is no reason to exclude adventures in this regard. Hell, even Singularity (2010) the FPS from Ravensoft has three possible endings - and even there, in the case of what could be considered as a good ending, it is far from "winning" because Kathryn is dead anyway.

    Also as --TIE-- pointed out, this fashion wave of bad endings in recent years has become something like a dead horse beating. Many gamers do not find it intriguing nor original anymore, when it's almost always about somebody has to die in the end hurr durr. Leaving good/bad wibe of things, any ending should have solid prerequisites without logical fallacies which those two featured in Life is Strange currently do not have in my humble opinion.
    Last edited by TweetyCZ; 31st Oct 2015 at 10:09.

  15. #40
    Many gamers do not find it intriguing nor original anymore, when it's almost always about somebody has to die in the end hurr durr.
    And from a gameplay point of view (not storywise I know) it´s better to offer even a good ending (or ending where ppl survive, if good is too mainstream) to atract a wider range of customers. In game terms it also can be good to hold the game alive with a very hard way to find a good end. I think ppl would play this game over and over again to find this one hidden combination to reach another end, other then the two we allready got.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by --TIE-- View Post
    In game terms it also can be good to hold the game alive with a very hard way to find a good end. I think ppl would play this game over and over again to find this one hidden combination to reach another end, other then the two we allready got.
    Good point, this might have even been an original intention how to create LiS at Dontnod, scrapped due to time/budget reasons in the later stages of development. There is way too much subplots left dormant in my book!

  17. #42
    I see no wrong with a good ending, if it was rather difficult to achieve. It should take into account many decisions throughout the whole season, something from every episode. That would give players a choice and encourage replayability.

    Think of it like you're Max. You're not happy with the outcome so you "rewind" and start the game over, but now you have more knowledge. Would it work? I dunno.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by GiovanniKekelli View Post
    Good point, this might have even been an original intention how to create LiS at Dontnod, scrapped due to time/budget reasons in the later stages of development. There is way too much subplots left dormant in my book!
    I think the same...as I said before the 5th episode looks like a "best scenes" from the last three. So a developer with such an fine sense for story, emotions, characters cant fail so hard with the last Episode. There must be more outside, far more.

    Think of it like you're Max. You're not happy with the outcome so you "rewind" and start the game over, but now you have more knowledge. Would it work? I dunno.
    I dont know the right english word for it...maybe sometimes it´s called playthrough+ like in other games you can play it again but with the full skilled char from the first playthrough. I think this will be an iteressting option for the game (maybe includet in a directorscut).

    You can play it over and over again to find out wich combination from decission leads to wich end OR you can choose to play it again as a result from a rewind and with new dialogueoptions who reflect that Max had far more knowledge. Like in the Class Picture where you finde the right way to make Kate feel loved and comfortable (during the 5th episode dark room journey).

  19. #44
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    Tweety CZE: There are dozens of movies where isn't a happy ending. Also it was stated by Dontnod in the beginning that there won't be any completely good or completely bad ending.

    I don't know, the "good, neutral, bad" endings seem too... gameplay-ish. And how could you identify on the level of these endings? What if one ending is beautiful but you don't want it because it isn't the "win" ending.
    And no movie adventure game did that, they want to tell a story, and they want the story to be the main aspect of the game, not gameplay and "the highest score (best ending).

  20. #45
    And no movie adventure game did that, they want to tell a story, and they want the story to be the main aspect of the game, not gameplay and "the highest score (best ending).
    It´s a single player game why do you care what other´s will see in the end. If your movies allways have to end bad its okay, but why deny others their (maybe more good) end. To have an good end isnt the same to winning. During my playthrough Kate dies and if it is in the end so it´s not all good. Its a very narrow point of view that only bcs. it´s a story driven game the story had come to an bad end in any way Where is the fun to play with different choices and decissions if you ever suffer on the end!?

  21. #46
    Hey eveyone,

    I also signed the petition and I think it's impressive over 5000 people gave their personal information to sign it.
    LiS has impacted quite an amount of people.
    A polished Episode 5 would obviously be amazing. The fact that it has issues and points where improvements would be nice doesn't mean we're an angry mob. I think most people here on this forums are very respectful and passionate about the game, and in a constructive mood regarding Dontnod.
    Apart from leaving a polished LiS behind to give back to all their fans, an extended ending would also serve a lot for Dontnod's reputation. Game developers working constructively with the community and trying to fix things when they could've made it better: That's a good reputation.
    Enhanced editions or director's cuts would not be a total precedence. They've happened before and they have been very well received. (If it's ME3's extremely controversial and -tbh- disappointing ending before the extended cut; or e.g. The Witcher "Enhanced Edition" and then the director's cut with some more additions)

    I'd be game to contribute my share if they went with Kickstarter, if money really is the root of all evil here.
    LiS matters enough to me to do this.
    (That's a big compliment to Dontnod )

    Has anyone sent a link to the petition to them yet? They got a contact form (<- they should definitely read it if you sent it here) and Twitter account.
    I did contact them some days ago, but it was to link them the director's cut thread also here in the forums (which also contained some 'easy fix' improvement suggestions).
    FYI, I haven't heard back about that, but I didn't really think so. They might 1. be a little swamped with mails and 2. I did mostly inform them and not really ask questions I'd need a reply to

    I think a well written introduction to the petition and its intentions might be worth a shot sending to them?

  22. #47
    Tataboj: Yet, I can hardly see any of two current endings to be ambiguous. Both are outrightly bad, one is more bad (more deaths) than another, but that's it.

    In case no "movie" adventure did that so far, then there was now a missed opportunity for Dontnod to stand out and be the first in this field. Especially given how the game was marketed. Problem is even current bad endings have no a solid basis as I pointed out earlier apart from "fate" or "life is not fair" buzzwords, how am I supposed to identify with those endings while there is no solid ground for them ingame?

    If you like current endings as they turned along with their execution, then it's fine, nobody will take 'em away from you, it's too late for any major overhauls anyway (like connecting choices from all the previous EP with ending). What many people want is to explain current endings as they are by extension and prospectively, to add some more endings which make a difference - because these two current ones feel shallow and kind of samey - pick up terrible or horrible, yep what a difference. In short there is lack of endings for people who were playing with intention to avoid havenless situations like at the end of the actual game.

    Also, what's up with that winning mentality bud, I probably know what you mean, still this isn't a winner-loser The Catcher in the Rye novel setting reality. Main draw of adventures for many gamers is to be part of the story and ability to shape it with their actions to some extent. That's what separates it from other genres where you mostly play as simple observer or actor among set pieces going along with your strictly alloted role while being unable to change anything at any moment of the game. What Life is Strange did was rendering most of your actions irrelevant after 4 episodes of hard choices making. Sorry if many see it as unsatisfactory. At the same time there are those who like it very much which is perfectly fine, but those wouldn't be harmed by extended cut including additional endings. Let everyone decide what is his/her "win".

    Sorry for longer post, I hope it helped to clarify some of the other side's stances.
    Last edited by TweetyCZ; 31st Oct 2015 at 13:12.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Painspotter View Post
    Hey eveyone,

    I also signed the petition and I think it's impressive over 5000 people gave their personal information to sign it.
    LiS has impacted quite an amount of people.
    A polished Episode 5 would obviously be amazing. The fact that it has issues and points where improvements would be nice doesn't mean we're an angry mob. I think most people here on this forums are very respectful and passionate about the game, and in a constructive mood regarding Dontnod.
    Apart from leaving a polished LiS behind to give back to all their fans, an extended ending would also serve a lot for Dontnod's reputation. Game developers working constructively with the community and trying to fix things when they could've made it better: That's a good reputation.
    Enhanced editions or director's cuts would not be a total precedence. They've happened before and they have been very well received. (If it's ME3's extremely controversial and -tbh- disappointing ending before the extended cut; or e.g. The Witcher "Enhanced Edition" and then the director's cut with some more additions)

    I'd be game to contribute my share if they went with Kickstarter, if money really is the root of all evil here.
    LiS matters enough to me to do this.
    (That's a big compliment to Dontnod )

    Has anyone sent a link to the petition to them yet? They got a contact form (<- they should definitely read it if you sent it here) and Twitter account.
    I did contact them some days ago, but it was to link them the director's cut thread also here in the forums (which also contained some 'easy fix' improvement suggestions).
    FYI, I haven't heard back about that, but I didn't really think so. They might 1. be a little swamped with mails and 2. I did mostly inform them and not really ask questions I'd need a reply to

    I think a well written introduction to the petition and its intentions might be worth a shot sending to them?
    Yeah, I think it would be worth to let them know. I hope they understand that they have a very passionate fanbase and that this would be their chance to stand out from the other devs. Many companies do not communicate with fans and that's a sad thing. I hope Dontnod is different.

    This would be their moment. I hope they take it.

  24. #49
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    TweetyCZ: 1. I'm pretty sure developers didn't want to explain more things than they did. They wanted to leave room for our own interpretation.
    2. The endings have a really solid basis. It was foreshadowed from the very beginning, in fact, I predicted the ending after Ep 2. Also I think it was clear that it won't end with a happy end.
    3. I agree with you that they could have made the choices matter to the end, but I reconciled and if you look at Telltale, there is one choice right before the end, too. And games from Telltale hardly have even a little dialogue change.
    4. Ok, what about this: This game was written, and these endings were intented from the beginning. Bad or not-so-good endings are beautiful. So if they were forced (kind of ugly word, but you know what I mean) to make a good ending, it wouldn't fit the atmosphere and intention of writers how they wanted to make the game.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by --TIE-- View Post
    It´s a single player game why do you care what other´s will see in the end. If your movies allways have to end bad its okay, but why deny others their (maybe more good) end. To have an good end isnt the same to winning. During my playthrough Kate dies and if it is in the end so it´s not all good. Its a very narrow point of view that only bcs. it´s a story driven game the story had come to an bad end in any way Where is the fun to play with different choices and decissions if you ever suffer on the end!?
    I will see it in the end too, so it can make my experience worse.

    But this game isn't about choices, it's about the story. It's not about "playing with the choices". Choices are the way to identify with your story, but that's it. If you too rely on the choices in these games, you will be dissapointed.

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