A topic originally started by TechImmortal on the old Eidos Deus Ex Forum.

Note: I have edited the original threads by removing several off-topic posts, user signatures, and a few other minor items. In some places, this causes inconsistencies in alternating colors for individual posts.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="95%" border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=#000000> <TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0> <TBODY> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#00104f> <TD vAlign=center width="18%"><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=1><B>Author</B></FONT></TD> <TD vAlign=center><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=1><B>Topic:&nbsp;&nbsp; SPOILERS! Tech's DX2 Speculation Thread (as Promised)</B></FONT></TD></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-17-2002 10:45 AM</FONT> <HR> OldGrrl, I agree the relevance of WTO might not be striking, but then FEMA seemed harmless before I played Deus Ex. I guess the point is that any organisation with the power to influence the wealth of economies has the potential for even more. </FONT></TD></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-17-2002 02:13 PM</FONT> <HR> I guess I should respond to Deadalus' comment about Tracer Tong. He did have the Gray Death, but toward the end, Gary Savage had acquired the ability to manufacture a cure, and was doing so, and Tong was getting better. So unless someone kills him, he survives for Deus Ex 2. <P>Carry on, people, this is fun<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> </FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>OldGrrl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 158<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-18-2002 05:15 AM</FONT> <HR> i'm beginning to think it's time to go back and replay the game. i'm starting to --gasp--forget details.<BR><BR>i was "almost" certain that Tong had a cure for the Gray Death, but after he said that, i wasn't so sure anymore. didn't they have or build their own UC? or am i misremembering?<BR><BR>so if their plague is actually some sort of nanites(sp?) that were preprogrammed to emulate a disease, someone else could reprogram them with a new something. wonder if they'll do that in DX2? </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>QualiC</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 77<BR>From:Pittsburgh,PA USA<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-18-2002 07:49 AM</FONT> <HR> You know, one thing that always bothered me about this idea that JC was only one year old is the fact about his memories of parents. Now I understand about implanted memories, however that does not explain the storyline about his parents getting upset about his training and purpose. <P>If his parents were indeed only sperm/egg donors, its likely they might not even know they had anything to do with JC. And if they did know, they sure wouldn't get upset because he wasw being trained as an agent! If they knew, that means they were scientists involved in the project...and they wouldn't have had any illusions about the purposes their "baby" was being built for. <P>Not only that, they sure wouldn't have had the emptional attachment necessary to cause enough problems to warrant their elimination. <P>On top of that, there's no way their killing would have been included in th programmed memory as part of JC's bio...that would have been to dumb on MJ12's part! <P>And yet we know their killling isn't fiction because we meet the hitman himself as introduced by Page...further proof the parents existed and were killed. <P>Plus, why would two donors behave like parents? Even if one scientist took the cloning personally, the other wouldn't have. <P>I think this all points toward JC and Paul actually being raised from a young age, and not created as complete men. Who knows if they were raised from infancy or if the were grown in tanks to age 10 or whatever, but they were young enough for the parents to become attached enough to behave as parent and care about their children. <P>Is there anything thst ever states their resl age? </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-18-2002 10:37 AM</FONT> <HR> His "parents" were scientists. I don't think they are biological parents in any sense. If I am right, JC's DNA sample was completely engineered from scratch. I could be wrong though. Scientists do have great emotional attachment to their creation, just as much as if it is their own children. Needless to say the scientists didn't know everything which were going on, and when they found out, could have threatened to destroy the work. The killing has to be included into the memory, or else how would it explain the sudden disappearance of their parents? The only evidence to the contrary is in the email at Area 51 which describes JC as if he were a child and attending boarding school in Switzerland. However I take that to mean the Academy where the training levels could have been.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-18-2002 11:17 AM</FONT> <HR> This can't be resolved. You are both right. <P>The evidence is clear: there were no parents, and JC's memories are implanted. I won't repeat all the evidence here, because it's been discussed elsewhere, and there's a lot of it, and it's very compelling. <P>The evidence is equally clear: the "parents" (actually scientists acting as surrogate parents) did exist and were ordered killed by Page (the order is on a computer in Area 51). This is independent corroboration (outside of JC's mind) that they *did* exist. Lebedev's knowledge of the "parents" is further external corroboration. If the first scenario (born full-grown and with implanted memories) is correct, there would be no need for "parents" to raise the youngsters, since they were never youngsters. <P>Please understand that you are both right. It can't be resolved, because the DX team, probably in a rush at the end, didn't ever go back and clean up which version of the background they actually meant to use. (Edit: non-industry people, when they see me say something like this on fan boards, seem somehow to interpret it as harsh criticism. Please don't do that. It's simply an example of the way the game industry sometimes has to be.) <P>At least, ION Storm does know about this problem. But for now, I think each of us just has to pick a preferred version of the backstory. </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-Random-</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 100<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-18-2002 03:19 PM</FONT> <HR> What about at the very start of the game, on the docks, when Paul talks about that UN dinner, and Dad making a toast?</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>OldGrrl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 158<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-19-2002 04:45 AM</FONT> <HR> Tech,<BR>ah. the old plot gap demon. know it well. and yup, it happens even in the best of movies/stories/games. ok. well, i pick the actual childhood. it makes more sense to me.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"><BR><BR>but if there weren't that plot gap, and i was going to speculate on why the parents were killed or why they got emotional, etc:<BR><BR>it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me that people would KNOW that the child they are raising is an experiment, and designed for a certain purpose, but after a few years an emotional bond could still form. like the women who agree to be a surrogate mother for a childless couple. she knows going in that she is only a vessel, that she shouldn't get emotionally attached to the baby because it isn't hers. but many times she develops a bond for the baby and doesn't want to give it up. maybe the scientists would have gotten attached to the child (anybody here see the movie D.A.R.Y.L.?) and even though they know he isn't theirs, they grow to care about him and what his destiny might be. (manmade destiny, not necessarily [echo voice on]The Chosen One [echo voice off] sort of thing.)<BR><BR>plus, the same way JC believed one thing in the beginning of the game and another later, maybe the "parents" would have learned things about the organization they were working for and decided that they had made a mistake. that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to have this kid (whom they'd grown attached to) become a hired gun for an organization they now believe to be evil.<BR><BR>i think we could write an entire new story here around the back story.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"> </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Suzie Croft</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 344<BR>From:nowhere you wanna know about<BR>Registered: Jul 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-19-2002 11:33 AM</FONT> <HR> Maybe I missed something, but didn't the game say that JC's parents had been killed off when he was young ("young" - obivously JC was never "actually" a child... but the memory was of them dying when he was a child... if you see what i mean) <P>But Paul wasn't that much older than JC (he only graduated 1yr/6months before), but he said their father was at his (paul's) graduation. <P>Just adding my own confusion to the pot... </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-19-2002 05:42 PM</FONT> <HR> Interesting, but where did the game say that JC's parents died when he was young? My memory not working here.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>OldGrrl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 158<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-20-2002 04:24 AM</FONT> <HR> i can't remember either. and i also didn't remember about their dad being at Paul's graduation. looks like it's time for a replay.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"><BR><BR>and hopefully someone who remembers better will stop by soon and help out with some answers.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-20-2002 04:27 AM</FONT> <HR> The graduation conversation took place on NYC dock right at the beginning.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-Random-</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 100<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-20-2002 05:14</FONT> <HR> It sounds like the killing took place between Paul's graduation and JC's graduation. ("It was nice to have done something for him and Mom. I wish someone could have been there for you.") But when did the graduations happen?<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif"></FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-20-2002 06:56 AM</FONT> <HR> I assume not more than a few weeks ago.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>gamergirl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 186<BR>From:Phoenix, AZ USA<BR>Registered: Sep 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-20-2002 07:41 AM</FONT> <HR> Yeah, wasn't the Liberty Island job JC's first out of the academy? He was so eager to get to it and impress everyone.<BR> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Suzie Croft</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 344<BR>From:nowhere you wanna know about<BR>Registered: Jul 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-20-2002 01:22 PM</FONT> <HR> Well, there is a very good chane I'm talking rubbish. <P>It sounds like Random's actually right... and yes, Liberty Island was JC's first mission. He made a remark that it was a change from the academy....</font> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 07:50 AM</FONT> <HR> It is mentioned, in a conversation after Paul's defection, that Paul had been with UNATCO for "years." Now, UNATCO itself can't have existed for very long (and how long is another of those things that's unclear, and I'm racing off to conference sessions, so that's for another time). So, I assume they actually mean with some form of the United Nations for years. <P>The timing between JC and Alex looks like 4 years -- that is, if things had gone according to plan, Alex would have been "born" or expunged 4 years after JC. If you assume a similar timing between Paul and JC, and assume that the parents were indeed killed because of their objection to JC's entering the academy to be turned into a killing machine, that gives enough time for: Paul's graduation, Paul being in the field for a while, the killing of the parents, JC going into the academy, and JC graduating. <P>This is all assuming one is going with the parents-raised-them scenario instead of the implanted-memories scenario. <P>That conversation, which you get by continually clicking on Paul at the dock until he has no more to say, is so odd, though, that it can also be interpreted as a mismatch between Paul's implanted memories, and JC's implanted memories, for people who choose to go with that version of the back story. <P>Gotta run, hope this helps<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"> </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>rhalibus</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Junior Member <P>Posts: 4<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 10:19 AM</FONT> <HR> You better run, Tech--We don't want you to be late for the GDC!! <P><IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"></FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 11:46 AM</FONT> <HR> Here I am, reporting live from GDC. Saw the LIPsinc DX2 demo. It's of the scientist guy from the PiezoChem lab, saying Aquinas is going to destroy the world, and to look at the cultures, and get the one for JC. <P>Heh. So, I was right, he's dead and is recloned by that lab. <P>And those of you who said the reason is to fight the computer, however it may be represented, also appear to be right. <P>And I was the first person to see this, so I'm scooping everyone with this info. </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Suzie Croft</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 344<BR>From:nowhere you wanna know about<BR>Registered: Jul 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 11:53 AM</FONT> <HR> Wow... scoop! <P>Very cool<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"> </FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 04:47 PM</FONT> <HR> Cool. Keep up with the reporting!!!</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Danaelus</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 693<BR>From:Washington, DC<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 06:05 PM</FONT> <HR> Wow, this is big! Good call on the death thing Techimmortal!</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 06:42 PM</FONT> <HR> &gt; Aquinas is going to destroy the world <P>Aquinas is not Helios, I think. :-&gt; </FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>??DEADALUS??</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 58<BR>From:New York, NY USA<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 07:23 PM</FONT> <HR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="margin-top:0px;"><FONT face=Arial size=1>quote:</FONT><hr><b>PREVIOUSLY POSTED BY ICEBreaker:</b><BR>but then FEMA seemed harmless before I played Deus Ex. I guess the point is that any organisation with the power to influence the wealth of economies has the potential for even more.<p> The only reason FEMA is envolved in this is because, Simons, being the head of it can send the whole congress and the president's administration to isolated facilities(RX84) so that MJ12 would have full control. It comes up at the interrogation of the 2 NSF prisoners at the UNATCO jail.<hr></BLOCKQUOTE> The dad that made the toast was not JC and Paul's real dad. He was assigned by Page himself(I can't be too sure). Lebedev tells you that on the 747 if you kill Navarre.<P>QualiC,<BR>As far as the game goes, their real parents have been murdered precisely by MJ12, but I can't avoid the confusion that comes up. I heard JC and Paul were clones.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 09:10 PM</FONT> <HR> STL, did you ever figure out what was meant by "Aquinas spoke of the mythical city on the hill..." <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=Arial size=1>quote:</FONT> <HR> Originally posted (myself) ICEBreaker:<BR><B>I guess the point is that any organisation with the power to influence the wealth of economies has the potential for even more.</B> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I was refering to WTO not FEMA. </FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 09:23 PM</FONT> <HR> Thomas Aquinas was a philosopher. The "City on the Hill" is a usually religious reference to creating Heaven on Earth. It's also used in talking about Manifest Destiny; e.g. see<A href="http://parallel.park.uga.edu/~arburke/texts/city.html" target=_blank>here</A>, all the way back since<A href="http://classiclit.about.com/library/weekly/aa112600a.htm" target=_blank>John Winthrop</A> used it in 1630. <P>Edit: The phrase originates in the Bible, Matthew 5:14.<BR>"When he saw the crowds, he went up the mountain. After he sat down his disciples came to him. Then he began to teach them by saying:<BR>'Blessed are the poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them....<BR>You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill cannot be hidden. People do not light a lamp and put it under a basket14 but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before people, so that they can see your good deeds and give honor to your Father in heaven'" <P>Thanks for making me have to look it up; this'll go into the DX Story page. :-&gt;</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Danaelus</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 693<BR>From:Washington, DC<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 09:53 PM</FONT> <HR> I didn't even know that this was in question! I did a paper on Thomas Aquinas for my Theology class. <P>STL pretty much covered all the important stuff. Thomas Aquinas was renowned for using science and logic to argue for the truthfulness of religion. He actually did a pretty good job, he was one of the first people to hold his own against atheist philosophers.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 09:55 PM</FONT> <HR> Hey now, before I looked it up I didn't understand the reference either. So it wasn't a stupid question. <P>I already wrote it up for the DX Story page, which I'll upload later. </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-21-2002 10:11 PM</FONT> <HR> Aquinas may refer to the Aquinas Hub, though, or to a recloned Bob Page. Or it may refer to Helios (who I claim survived) with or without a merge. In other words, it may be a perception, true or false, that the computer running the world is not a good idea. <P>No PS2 DX at the conference, at least not today. <P>No other DX-related stuff, except that the Havok physics (used in DX2) demos kick butt.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <P>I may be too tied up to do any more reporting, but I hope this makes up for any future lacks. </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 08:37 AM</FONT> <HR> Thanks a lot for looking that up. I will check your story page in case you added more.</FONT> </td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 05:34 PM</FONT> <HR> Further info: I saw one of the showings of the Unreal Technology demo. <P>I'm not clear on whether I can be detailed about it, but I will say that anything made with that technology, by people with a good sense of gameplay and artistic vision, will ROCK. <P>This new engine will give you all the gameplay, eye candy, and cinematic features one could ever hope for. It's stunning. <P>The physics SDK used by the Unreal people is different from the one chosen by the DX2 team. I've seen demos of both, and they are both good -- but, as I said before, only as good as the scripter who sets the physics up. <P>But, people who know what they are doing can blow our socks off. <P>Also, straight from Harvey Smith: Yes, DX2 is going to be shorter, but there won't be less gameplay. In fact, there will be *more* gameplay, more to explore, more to interact with, etc. Shorter, but much deeper. The impression I get is that you can still take a long time to get to the end if that's your style. So, I think we can stop worrying about the game being shorter.<BR> </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>DeusExJew</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 399<BR>From:Halifax,NS,Canada<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT></td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 05:55 PM</FONT> <HR> I believe is STL is correct when he draws a connection between "The Mythical City and the Hill" and manifest destiny. I'm Canadian so in high school I was taught about the American theory of manifest destiny. Supposedly the belief some Americans have that they will one day rule the world, just as Bob Page and Walton Simons wished to grab global domination. </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 06:02 PM</FONT> <HR> &gt; Supposedly the belief some Americans have<BR>&gt; that they will one day rule the world, <P>Essentially, yes. Most Americans, I'd say. ;-) <P>Re. Game length -<BR>That's good. Some parts (not many, but some) of DX were long and not deep - for example, the Oceanlab has little character interaction and reminded me of SS2. I like having small places like New York which are very rich and nonlinear. </FONT></td></TR> <TR valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Danaelus</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 693<BR>From:Washington, DC<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD> <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 06:25 PM</FONT> <HR> Manifest Destiny actually more specifically referred to the settlers desire to repopulate North America from the East to the West.</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 06:40 PM</FONT> <HR> Yes, but once we did that, we set our sights on taking over the world. See Reagan's farewell speech. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 06:58 PM</FONT> <HR> Hey, let's stay on topic! I've already resisted the urge to get into that discussion, so you guys can resist, too<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <P>Read your email, STL! I got your question answered. <P>Oh, and to further stay on topic, audio in DX2 will be vastly improved in several ways. I'll find out what I can report. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 07:25 PM</FONT> <HR> I take it that DX2's audio will at least be dynamic like DX's. What else can we expect? 8-)</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Danaelus</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 693<BR>From:Washington, DC<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 09:15 PM</FONT> <HR> Yeah, they better not downgrade any of the already existing features in Deus Ex.</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>QualiC</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 77<BR>From:Pittsburgh,PA USA<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-22-2002 10:54 PM</FONT> <HR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="margin-top:0px;"><FONT face=Arial size=1>quote:</FONT> <HR> Originally posted by Danaelus:<BR><B>Manifest Destiny actually more specifically referred to the settlers desire to repopulate North America from the East to the West.</B> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> This is essentially correct. It applied to the early expansion of the original states and was as much a policy as a philosophy. Those in power believed it was their duty to grab up as much land as they could in the name of the United States. <P>The Homestead Acts where a major tool towards this end...the govt. knew it did not have nearly a large enough miltary to send it off exploring and conquering, so they brilliantly conceived a plan that mobilized vast numbers of citizens to go lay claim to the interior. The history behind not honoring Indian treaties, the Alamo &amp; Mexican war, and I believe the French-Indian war, were all a result of the Manifest Destiny reaching the limits of where our miltary power could puch back borders. <P>But that was the end of it mostly...and Manifest Destiny never had world conquest in its sights. Nor does it apply to anything but long ago history... </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-Random-</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 100<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-23-2002 05:29 AM</FONT> <HR> This doesn't have much to do with anything, but we all want to know everything there is to know that's remotely related to DX, right? <IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <P>Chris Todd, who wrote the DX intro and other cinematics, wrote a short story called 'Georgia Downhill' that mentions the City on the Hill. Obviously an interest of his.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"> <P>You can read it here, in the Portfolio section:<BR><A href="http://www.7crows.com/main.html" target=_blank>http://www.7crows.com/main.html</A> <P>I read it just now, actually. Pretty good stuff.</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-24-2002 01:32 PM</FONT> <HR> OK, I checked around and got some permission to make sure. <P>a) It is public info that tracker music will no longer be used. It will be streamed, and according to one talk, will probably be more tailored to the moment -- no longer anything as simplistic as *Action music means look for the enemy* and *regular music means no one to fight* or anything like that. <P>b) Chris Carollo gave a talk on sound propagation in 3D environments. I had a conflicting obligation, so I was unable to attend, but I think it's safe to say that sound propagation in both DX2 and Thief 3 will be greatly improved over what it was in DX. <P>c) Cheesy mp3 compression will no longer be used for the voice acting. A much better, nicer-sounding solution has been found. <P>Other than this, I don't have much further new info to report, because Saturday got really, really busy for me. <P>But, everything I've reported is straight from people working on DX2, plus the LIPsinc demo. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>DeusExJew</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 399<BR>From:Halifax,NS,Canada<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-24-2002 07:06 PM</FONT> <HR> Excellent, thanks Tech<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"> looks like work is well underway on DX2. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Danaelus</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 693<BR>From:Washington, DC<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 01:31 AM</FONT> <HR> You know, this topic is beginning to make me think. How much else do we want to know? If I knew the entire plot to the game now, would you want me to tell you about it? I think I am very close to being ready for an informational shut down until the game actually arrives.</FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 01:38 AM</FONT> <HR> I want to know everything I can. Why? Because undoubtedly Deus Ex II itself will be so great that playing it will be unlike anything we've ever heard in previews. Think about all the previews of DX and all the interviews about DX, even after the game shipped - do they capture what the game is all about? Not even close. <P>I'm not worried. Not at all. ;-)</FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 03:59 AM</FONT> <HR> Danaelus I know what you mean. Speculation is fun, but actually getting facts is another thing entirely.</FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>OldGrrl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 158<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 04:14 AM</FONT> <HR> STL,<BR>but don't you worry that with too much advance info that you might get over-psyched and then when it gets here it will never come up to the standards you've set in your mind? like in the movies. there's so much pre-hype that the actual movie almost never fully lives up to the expectations. but then, maybe it's me.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"><BR><BR>Danaelus,<BR>i know what you mean. this is getting sorta like sneaking peeks at your christmas presents and then christmas morn there are no surprises left.<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif"><BR><BR>still...... </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 04:20 AM</FONT> <HR> Impossible - Deus Ex II will be about transcendent greatness, greatness that can not be described in words. It is impossible to be <B>too</B> psyched for the game. :-&gt;</FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-Random-</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 100<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 05:26 AM</FONT> <HR> You know the thing I'm looking forward to most? The subplots! I loved investigating all the subplots in DX1 and by the sound of what Tech has reported, there will be a lot more in DX2!</FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 05:58 AM</FONT> <HR> And anyways, pre-release information is always subject to change. I was digging through some interviews, and found this DX1 concept image of JC which I hadn't seen before (though we've all seen this 'look'): [edit by Catman]The image file is no longer available.[/edit] </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Catman</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Moderator <P>Posts: 622<BR>From:Ames, IA, USA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 09:36 AM</FONT> <HR> Reminds me a bit of a very grumpy Sly Boots.</FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>Suzie Croft</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 344<BR>From:nowhere you wanna know about<BR>Registered: Jul 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 10:25 AM</FONT> <HR> Nope. Not JC. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>gamergirl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 186<BR>From:Phoenix, AZ USA<BR>Registered: Sep 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 10:51 AM</FONT> <HR> Ick. He looks like he's about to spit.</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>ICEBreaker</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 2385<BR>From:Sydney, Australia<BR>Registered: Nov 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 03:57 PM</FONT> <HR> I am glad they didn't follow that model!</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>DeusExJew</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 399<BR>From:Halifax,NS,Canada<BR>Registered: Dec 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 05:22 PM</FONT> <HR> lol. Certainly not the look of the JC Denton we know and love. I do agree with Danaleus though. I was so obsessed with learning everything I could about Warcraft 3 and when the beta came I found it boring. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-25-2002 08:25 PM</FONT> <HR> Yes, that's a really, really early pic of JC. I really hate the face (blunt, aren't I?<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> ) <P>Goes to show how much a final game can differ from early concept art. I suspect DX2 will vary just as much from its original concept art that we are all seeing, these days. <P>Oh, and, um...there are a few things I thought best not to post, mostly because I wasn't sure if I was allowed, and I decided to play it safe. Trust me, though, unless something goes drastically wrong, I think we will not be disappointed. Remember, also, if you saw the end to my second post in the original thread, that there is no way we can guess the exact nature of the story in Deus Ex 2, only the beginning of that story, which I had guessed more or less successfully. Unless someone leaks the plot, which I hope no one does, we should be in for a great time and plenty of surprises. </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>OldGrrl</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 158<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-27-2002 07:06 AM</FONT> <HR> i hate waiting. hate hate hate.<BR><BR>ok, that tantrum is over. <BR><BR>no it isn't.<BR><BR>"lord give me patience. NOW." </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>DeeperBlue</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Junior Member <P>Posts: 1<BR>From:NJ, USA<BR>Registered: Mar 2002</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-27-2002 08:12 PM</FONT> <HR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="margin-top:0px;"><hr><b>Originally posted by TechImmortal:<BR></b>Aquinas may refer to the Aquinas Hub, though, or to a recloned Bob Page. Or it may refer to Helios (who I claim survived) with or without a merge. In other words, it may be a perception, true or false, that the computer running the world is not a good idea.</hr></blockquote> I'm pretty sure Aquinas is the new communications protocol that Page was using to tap into the global net, with the evidence as follows: <P>* * * <P>Page Unveils "Aquinas"<BR>APR - Washington, D.C. <P>At a lavish press conference today attended by mainstream and technical media alike, Bob Page unveiled Page Industries (NASDAQ:PAGI) newest technological achievement, "Aquinas." Rumored to have been in development for almost five years at a cost of over a billion credits, Aquinas is a seamless, transparent replacement for the current patchwork of Net protocols that promises to radically expand bandwidth without the need for new hardware. <P>"Aquinas is the result of over five hundred man-years of effort on the part of some of the most talented and driven people in the industry," Page said at the conference. "We're grateful to the NSA and the Hague Commission on Secure Communications for trusting Page Industries with the responsibility for this technological milestone. As of noon today you can expect nearly all of the world's net traffic to be carried by Aquinas. Bandwidth is now, for all intents and purposes, free." <P>The remainder of the press conference involved presentations by the leaders of the carriers allied with Page Industries, and a technical discussion of the Aquinas protocol -- named after the titular Thomas Aquinas, whose philosophy is a well-known passion for Bob Page. <P>* * * <P>From: MorganEverett//???<BR>To: BethDuClare//UnderNet.324.823.2<BR>Subject: <P>CYPHERBLOCK=&lt;"busdic98-sch233bnpoec813983b80dcb-sd896dc7gd7"&gt; <P>This will be our last communication over the Net. The so-called "Aquinas" protocols that my old protege and MJ12 have implemented are crude, but effective -- much like my protege. All future meetings will need to occur face to face at a secure location... <P>* * * <P>From: JMacdonald//UpNet.879.8657<BR>To: JDwight//UpNet.9803.4584<BR>Subject: Aquinas Secure? <P>Something strange... I just finished a packet analysis of the new v1.82 compression protocols we added to Aquinas last week, and while I was digging around in the headers I found a quirk in the security encryption algorithms that acts just like a backdoor -- you could even reformulate entire messages end to end if you knew what you were doing. It's pretty subtle (and would require someone to matrix together several offsets from successive packets to generate a time differential key) but the end result could potentially open up every bit of traffic carried by Aquinas to someone who knew about the hole. <P>I was thinking of mentioning this to Page, maybe get some points for discovering a potential security breach before we shipped. What do you think? <P>* * * <P>Something tells me that that technician wouldn't exactly get those points he was hoping for... &lt;g&gt;</FONT> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-27-2002 08:17 PM</FONT> <HR> Sure he would, as long as "points" means "bullets to the head". <P>Welcome to the forums! </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>TechImmortal</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 564<BR>From:Cabal of Technophiles mod group<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-28-2002 09:41 PM</FONT> <HR> Re: Aquinas -- as far as<B>Deus Ex 1</B> is concerned, you are correct. <P>But in the LIPsinc preview of<B>Deus Ex 2</B> the scientist rants on and on about an Aquinas that is an entity or a person -- that is, someone or something calling himself/itself "Aquinas" (though no doubt related to the Aquinas protocol somehow.) <P>BTW, I can't resist the urge, here, since we've colored up our formerly plain gray site (see my sig for the rest of our site): <P>Here's *our* version of the Aquinas Hub. Some of you have seen this before. Click the highly compressed little jpegs for a bigger, clearer, nicer view<IMG src="http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"><BR><A href="http://www.woolyloach.com/COTScreenies.html" target=_blank>http://www.woolyloach.com/COTScreenies.html</A> <P>I was going to post the large image directly, but I can't recall the image size limits offhand.<BR> </FONT></td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#dfe0e0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>uberstoat</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Junior Member <P>Posts: 3<BR>From:<BR>Registered: Jul 2001</FONT></td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-29-2002 05:52 PM</FONT> <HR> Aquinas was Bob Page's cover story for centralizing communications so he could monitor them after merging with Helios. The public knows about it, it's a cover story on an in-game magazine. <P>When the newly created JC/Helios entity presents itself to the world, I imagine it would identify itself with a label that the world public is familiar with, rather than with its secret codename. <P>So, Aquinas=Helios.</FONT> </td></TR> <tr valign="top" bgcolor=#c0c8d0> <TD vAlign=top width="18%"><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>STL[Caltech]</B></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>Member <P>Posts: 761<BR>From:Pasadena, CA<BR>Registered: Aug 2001</FONT> </td> <TD><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#001450 size=1>posted 03-29-2002 06:58 PM</FONT> <HR> I find that highly dubious. <P>Aquinas is a set of protocols, already in use. Helios is an AI, which didn't exist until Daedalus and Icarus merged. </FONT></td></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>