Thread: Melee classes for Humans?

Melee classes for Humans?

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by shinros
    Very interesting opinions, Khalith about the Alchemist I play one I do feel some of her skills need a buff I feel the damage of flamethrower needs to be increased or the damage or radius of the poison cloud needs to be increased. I mean most vampires don't even run when I turn the flamethrower on and proceed to kill me and they completely ignore and run through the poison.

    Still I think they need to make scout and Alchemist more appealing to get people to try them out.
    I think scout is appealing enough as is tbh, I see it played a lot after all and it's sniping/secondary skills are very strong, especially the turret. After seeing what sniping and the turret could do I decided to play scout, of the human classes it's become my favorite (when I can actually hit something, I'm not very good at aiming).
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  2. #27
    Originally Posted by Khalith
    (when I can actually hit something, I'm not very good at aiming).
    This.

    Always this.

    Even though I actually really like playing as a human because their ranged attacks are -at the very least- satisfying to use, if not the best in practice or for winning. I'm not the best either way, so I don't exactly stress getting taken out all the time.

    That said, when a vampire gets in your face and all you have is a (cross)bow/cannon, if you manage to miss... Well, I don't survive a miss at that distance anyway, so some sort of melee back-up plan would be mighty appreciated.

  3. #28
    I'm just wondering, where the hell are these hunters that >everyone< playing? Pretty sure those stats include the beginners which is why hunter is the most played as its a lot more newbie-friendly. After a certain level all i see is scouts, who has been the strongest class among humans for a long while. I know like 3 MAYBE 4 hunters who play it as a main compared to 10+ scouts in my friends list. Most of them trying to adapt playing scout(which i find really boring but) since they dont wanna nerf them in this century(not that they could, now that the hunter is nerfed, humans are already on the wrong side of the balance scale).

    Alchemist isnt that common but im happy about it as its really annoying to have more than 2 of those in a team. While she seems "weak" on the wrong hands, i believe she has the highest damage of the 3 human class. Just requires a lot of skill as she is the one with the air time on her grenade launcher and ping affects it A LOT.

    Fun wise, i like humans more. Since its just defending(which i find A LOT easier than attacking), its mostly a chill.

  4. #29
    So here is what the trend seems to be: experienced players who have played a long time and have had good teamwork with some other experienced players enjoy humans much more than vampires. New players like vampires since noobs vs noobs the vamps will usually win as they are much easier to pickup. Humans have quite a few things to worry about when first starting playing this game.

    Breaking the perception is not going to happen until people get better and learn to play humans as a team. Maybe if they go up against a beastly human team then they will realize that humans are really good and probably fun to play. Party system for teams .

    Hunters are played alot since they are easy to use, are one of the first classes to use and the other is alch which is very different from most shooter games, hunters are never a bad choice. No matter what makeup the other team is, hunter is good mainly because of the cc skills, consistent dps, and mobility (all humans are the same speed but hunters seem the most able to run around and shoot), and survivability.

    Ive played hunter since alpha a lot for the above reasons but also because it is such a good support class with its bola and flash. So ye, it is a beast at everything even supporting which is wasn't intended for I think.

    A melee support class will have to have significant melee disadvantages compared to vamps as vamps are melee. If the human is better at melee than all humans will go for that melee class then its 4v4 melee with humans the winner.

  5. #30
    Eh. I like the ranged vs melee aspect of the game, personally. I simply want some way for humans to regain distance that's lost when vampires charge in.

    9 times out of 10, vampires are faster. 9 times out of 10, if a human runs, they're struck down from behind.
    9 times out of 10, if running is the first option in your mind, you won't live long if you keep firing at the oncoming threat.

    So the option is some form of deterrent. Bola a vamp if you're a hunter and hope they pop their "Survival" cooldown. You have a temporary reprieve, but generally an enemy will just follow you until it wears off and continue the attack. Nothing's changed, except now maybe the vampire's regenerated a little of the health it was missing when this began.

    Throw down a turret? Well, hope it isn't a Reaver. Both as, and against, reavers, I've seen their leap attack used as a form of quick travel, over/through obstacles. Turrets aren't very wide-spread in their aoe, so... Damn.

    Throw down a wall of fire? Generally speaking unless you threw it down horizontally so you have a trail of fire behind you as you run...If the vampire's not close to death already they'll survive the burn.

    Hmm. What about fleet-footed? ....I've seen it work, and I've seen it fail. Generally once the human does anything that breaks his stride (personal example; Hunter stopped for the briefest moment to throw a grenade at me), the vampire (me) caught up immediately and cut him open, with his re-grouping team not more than 20 feet away. I escaped.


    I don't think a melee using human is the right way to address this. Especially as vampires, minus perhaps the very freshest of fledglings, are meant to be physically superior than any single human. And aside from lore: If humans get a melee class, you know the vampires will get/will demand to get a dedicated ranged class of their own, and that just muddles things further to me.

    I have no suggestions as to what would be a proper trick to help keep vampires at range. Some skill that has a forced knockback effect would be lovely as an "Oh crap!" button, but other than that I have absolutely no idea.

    Sorry for the rant....
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  6. #31
    Humans already have a melee attack (middle mouse button), though it isn't advertised well. As for a melee class, that would (for obvious reasons), break the dynamic of the game's combat.

    Yes, vampires can close the gap into melee range fairly quickly. But a well-coordinated human team can still win out.

    A good human team like that is less common than the free-for-all scattered rats style of play (sadly) but I've both played for and against human teams who not only held their ground during a melee assault but pushed the vampires into fleeing and hiding (assuming they weren't killed). While they wait for regen, the humans stop off at the nearest med station then regroup.

    Granted, I am somewhat annoyed that running is basically useless as an escape option...Though I find vampires are more likely to run away (as opposed to waiting it out) if you use a poison bola rather than the default.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 11th Mar 2014 at 08:46.

  7. #32
    I don't think a melee using human is the right way to address this. Especially as vampires, minus perhaps the very freshest of fledglings, are meant to be physically superior than any single human. And aside from lore: If humans get a melee class, you know the vampires will get/will demand to get a dedicated ranged class of their own, and that just muddles things further to me.
    If they did add one it would probably be a support class with close range stuns and CC's, I thought it might work but I think the amount of stuns and controlling effects already in the game are a little ridiculous at this point.
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  8. #33
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    Ironguard Knight

    Shield is just not fun at all. Crawling behind shield and waiting for undead to jump on you.
    Humans need big Greatsword that slicing vampires into pieces. I know that sarafan knights died out, but devs can use their concept to create Ironguard Knight, but fitted in full plate.


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  9. #34
    Still I wonder how the sarafan did it I assume they did not have the staff every time they went vampire hunting.

  10. #35
    Why do they have Raziel's clan symbol on their sashes, next to the sarafan symbol?

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by pupex_calin
    Why do they have Raziel's clan symbol on their sashes, next to the sarafan symbol?
    Ha! I didn't notice that. That could be another part of Kain's joke, giving him a sarafan logo or it could just be a simple easter egg placed there by the artist intentionally to see if fans would notice.
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  12. #37
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    It's a fan retexture by The Hylden. He assigned each of the Sarafan troops in Defiance to one of the inquisitors/lieutenants.

    The Sarafan leaders in SR2 actually do have their future clan symbols on their vestments, with the exception of Raziel himself.
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  13. #38
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    Originally Posted by pupex_calin
    Why do they have Raziel's clan symbol on their sashes, next to the sarafan symbol?
    Models was retextured by "Hylden" and about this symbols, I don't remember if it was vampire lieutenants' symbols as Sarafan knight leaders.
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  14. #39
    I asked about armor based on the Sarafan from Defiance here:
    http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/sho...?t=8673&page=3

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  15. #40
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    It would be great if devs just had forgotten about the existence of shields. Shields became obsolete after the evolution of plate armor. With current level of technology when grenade launchers exist, shields look antique. Vampire hunters in Legacy of Kain have used long shaft and blade melee weapons like halberds, pikes and longswords for a good reason. You need to keep vampires out of range while being able to inflict mortal wounds and hiding behind the shield was useless. Also its no fun to crawl with the shield around.
    So it turns out that long shaft weapons have tricky hitbox(hitting with the head) leaving us with the most common choise to engage fast-moving targets - Longsword or 2h Greatsword.
    There are images that can be used for concept prototype :
    http://i.imgur.com/zrHm6pu.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/0QYFT9o.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/nhZk0g7.jpg

    http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...ds-key-art.jpg
    http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...ct-d40uwlr.jpg
    Last edited by Angelos_Sanguinum; 13th Mar 2014 at 00:08.
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  16. #41
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    Human melee class

    This game is awesome! I think it has a ton of potential. You all are really on to something here. Class/faction based combat give people the variety they have been craving. Not only that, but this beta feels very polished and runs fantastic. Way better than other full release titles as of late. Crossfire on my 6990's works perfect.

    I would like to see a human melee class. Knight like. Something with either a meaty two hander or dual wield/sword and board. Hack them up!

  17. #42
    Very, very unlikely. Whole point of game is asymmetric combat i.e. ranged vs melee

  18. #43
    What I would rather see is humans have better melee ability's.
    HECK i see a sword on the back on the hunters, but never used?
    Melee should have a bit more benefits on humans, NOT to much since vampires are all melee pretty much, but JUST a tad bit more.
    HECK they can sell equipment for melee weapons also!

  19. #44
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    Only that skin of the Hunter has the sword, which I think is the main reason for that. (Although, it would be sexy.)
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  20. #45

    Human Melee based Class

    I would like to see a human class that is primarily focused on using melee abilities to deal out damage to the vampires.

    A kind of brawler class as opposed to the other standard shooter classes that focus on having the range.

  21. #46
    Did you even look

  22. #47
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    Hello, Sophax. There won't be any melee classes for the humans, I'm afraid. Not for the foreseeable future, in any case. One of the game's unique selling points is its asymmetrical combat dynamic, a ranged race vs a melee race, and it would be harmful from a design perspective to break this status quo.

    There is probably hope for a human class armed with spears or staves (given that the vampire hunters wielded these in Soul Reaver), but they would still have to conform to the game's core mechanics.
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  23. #48
    The game is ranged vs. melee, a melee-based human class would break that.

  24. #49
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    Hello, Sophax. There won't be any melee classes for the humans, I'm afraid. Not for the foreseeable future, in any case. One of the game's unique selling points is its asymmetrical combat dynamic, a ranged race vs a melee race, and it would be harmful from a design perspective to break this status quo.

    There is probably hope for a human class armed with spears or staves (given that the vampire hunters wielded these in Soul Reaver), but they would still have to conform to the game's core mechanics.
    I agree with that but I think it would be possible to add one human melee class ( with ranged options) that wouldn't breakt he assymetric combat at all.

    Lets say we add a "Sarafan warrior" class and we give him the ability to attack with his spear/sword just like the vampires do but with less reach and damage while still putting focus on his ranged capabilities lets say the ability to throw spears.

    I think if we balance out the damage of the melee/ranged and other power he might have that it won't influence the FUN and the core elements of the game. It'll add more strategy and variability.

    I agree that we should stick to the core principles to a certain degree but I don't think we should exclude good ideas that might benefit the game just because they don't fit the the picture of what the game is now or plays like right now. There are many ways to include and balance human melee without breaking or making the game less fun.

  25. #50
    I think it'd be fine to have a melee attack as an ability for a class, but as a primary attack, humans being range allows for better balance.

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